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[Miles Quaritch]

It doesn't say there isn't mandatory online either. You are speculating just as much as anyone saying there is mandatory online.

No, it's very clear. Mandatory installs, mandatory Kinect, no mention of mandatory online.

I know some desperately want it to be true, but the information in the documentation simply doesn't back it up. There is no wiggle room, had ot been mandatory, ot would certainly have been mentioned as developers need this information just as much as they need the information about mandatory Kinect and mandatory installs.

 

[Klocker]

No, it's very clear. Mandatory installs, mandatory Kinect, no mention of mandatory online.

I know some desperately want it to be true, but the information in the documentation simply doesn't back it up. There is no wiggle room, had ot been mandatory, ot would certainly have been mentioned as developers need this information just as much as they need the information about mandatory Kinect and mandatory installs.

.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

.

It's on another page!!!

 

[Uno Venova]

Um, no, when the quote about the PS4 and used games came out, they didn't specifically say that it would play all used games without any caveats such as requiring authorizations for used games. In fact, they were very careful with their words. Here is the quote:



That's not exactly specific, it's kinda vague and I would assume a guy like you who apparently LOVES specifics you'd have wanted more of an answer. So, no, you're not being consistent at all in your need for specifics.

That was a pretty straightforward quote in my opinion, when asked about a block on playing used games, a question was answered.

In this case it's more of extrapolating a fact from not much, they didn't say anything on it, so edge must be wrong is the theme going on.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

That was a pretty straightforward quote in my opinion.

Indeed, as was the quote that they will leave blocking of third party games up to the publishers of those titles.

 

[mediapulp_wes]

Installing all games is excellent, and needed. Especially if you can play right away or soon after beginning the install. (I install all my games on my systems that allow it)

Depending on the implementation. As hobbyist press, I rent almost all the retail games I play. If this in any way destroys the rental market, I'll either buy the console that supports rented games or build myself a PC and enjoy the cheaper software prices on there.

 

[Uno Venova]

Indeed, as was the quote that they will leave blocking of third party games up to the publishers of those titles.

Oh, this was said?

 

[StudioTan]

That was a pretty straightforward quote in my opinion.

Of course it is when it fits your narrative.

"So, used games can play on PS4 (when you purchase the used game authorization)" still makes his statement valid.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

To the people who claim that everyone is overreacting:



http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/20/4126632/next-xbox-always-connected-game-install-required-rumor

Warren is pretty well connected to Microsoft. His reporting is also very level-headed and even. He is interpreting this the same way as the doomsayers.

Saw this in comment,i wonder what aegies think about this leak

Have u guys read this :


N2O N2O @DJoe1899 9h

@superDaE What do you think about the new vgleaks 720 rumor?Since you said edge always online/anti used games are not true.



Dan Dan@superDaE

@DJoe1899 who do you think gave vgleaks all their documents? They're just asking to get sued, too bad the guy is in Europe. old docs & files

Wired that The Verge also said it's dated either

We understand that the information shared by Vgleaks is genuine, but it's also dated from last year. The real question isn't whether Microsoft has considered an anti-used games system, but if the leaks we're seeing are old enough for the company to have dropped the implementation in the mean time.

 

[Takuya]

Its just SDK documentation anyway, it isn't going to detail every single operating system function as they are obviously not complete or implemented yet. There is stuff in there that will be true, while other things can change, as far as functionality goes.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The console requiring an internet connection (which isn't actually the same as requiring the software to be consistently online to play as it seems to be construed) isn't really something developers need to know.

If it's a system implemented to simply check that installed versions are real/linked to accounts/only being used on one system, I don't see how it's something developers will need to build into their games.

EDIT: Polygon, bastions of journalism are weighing in. Yay.

Indeed, as was the quote that they will leave blocking of third party games up to the publishers of those titles.

Where's the quote of Yoshida saying that?

 

[Uno Venova]

Of course it is when it fits your narrative.

"So, used games can play on PS4 (when you purchase the used game authorization)." still makes his statement valid.

That's you extrapolating something to fit your narrative yes. Don't know why you're continuing this from another thread.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Oh, this was said?

Indeed it was. Someone will post the quote in question, I'm unable to as I'm on my phone.

 

[Uno Venova]

Indeed it was. Someone will post the quote in question, I'm unable to as I'm on my phone.

I know they said then when asked a question relating to activation codes for second hand titles. Nothing about blocking used games.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Holding back that one piece of information won't bring them more hits. Now was the time to release such information, they didn't because in all likelihood it doesn't exist.

Regardless of whether holding info back information is a wise move or not, look at their output over the last few months. It is obvious they have been doing it. They went as far as taking votes about what they would talk about next.

Who is bringing the validity of the documents into question? Interesting observation, if they are based on rumours only, why no mention of mandatory online? Perhaps its on another page?!

What?!

Seriously am I the only one that sees this for what it is?? Its a hoax folks, if you have ever read a Microsoft SDK or anything related to it you would know this is not written by Microsoft

look at the really simple language used. Most of the things said a developer does not need to know. The whole document existence and its structure makes absolutely no sense to be found in an sdk

The more I read it the more I am surprised others are not saying its a hoax.

How can a Hardware Overview directed at developers make absolutely no mention of the actual hardware inside?? But there is enough space for Always on and the Kinect motor, which a Developer would care 2 hoots about.

I would think we would all realize that Microsoft in that case all 3 of the Console Manufacturers are a lot more bombastic when they describe a new console and not just say hey its more powerful than our 8 year old console.


This is as if someone decided to write up all the bad rumors that have been floating around and detail them in a screen shot of what looks like MSDN documentation.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I know they said then when asked a question relating to activation codes for second hand titles. Nothing about blocking used games.

It's essentially the same thing. Used games won't work, unless you buy an activation code.

Or we devolved to using semantics to reach a stalemate?

 

[shinra-bansho]

Oh, is it this GameSpot interview?

On possibility of PS4 blocking used games
Yoshida: When you purchase the disc-based games on PS4, it should work on any hardware. So that's what I'm saying.

Then in a separate question. Seemingly unrelated, as there's another question about Vita in the middle.

On activation codes for secondhand PS4 titles
Yoshida: It's a publisher decision. We are not talking about it. Sorry.

Yeah, there are activation codes for second-hand titles on the PS3 and 360 already; Project $10, UPlay Passport; a publisher's decision.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Regardless of whether holding info back information is a wise move or not, look at their output over the last few months. It is obvious they have been doing it. They went as far as taking votes about what they would talk about next.

Regardless of past milking of information, withholding mandatory online information to release as a new leak by itself doesn't make sense.

Interesting those two bring the documentation into question, didn't the mighty EDGE post a piece saying tbey were legitimate?

 

[BlastProcessing]

Here is Yoshida's statement about activation codes

On possibility of PS4 blocking used games

When you purchase the disc-based games on PS4, it should work on any hardware. So that's what I'm saying.

On activation codes for secondhand PS4 titles

It's a publisher decision. We are not talking about it. Sorry.

And his pervious statement

I sat down with Yoshida a few hours after the PS4 reveal tonight and one of the first things I asked was whether used games would be blocked.

"Do you want us to do that?" he asked.

No, I said. I think, if you buy something on a disc, that you have a kind of moral contract with the person you've bought it from that you retain some of that value and you can pass it on.

Do you agree, I asked?

"Yes. That's the general expectation by consumers," said Yoshida. "They purchase physical form, they want to use it everywhere, right? So that's my expectation."

So if someone buys a PlayStation 4 game, I asked, you're not going to stop them reselling it?

"Aaaah," was Yoshida's initial answer, but seemingly only because he'd forgotten his line. "So what was our official answer to our internal question?" he asked his Japanese PR advisor. The advisor stepped in but didn't seem to answer clearly, at least to my ears. Yoshida then took control again firmly:

"So, used games can play on PS4. How is that?"

I said I thought that was fine.

 

[Uno Venova]

Oh, is it this GameSpot interview?

On possibility of PS4 blocking used games
Yoshida: When you purchase the disc-based games on PS4, it should work on any hardware. So that's what I'm saying.

Then in a separate question. Seemingly unrelated, as there's another question about Vita in the middle.

On activation codes for secondhand PS4 titles
Yoshida: It's a publisher decision. We are not talking about it. Sorry.

Yeah, there are activation codes for second-hand titles on the PS3 and 360 already; Project $10, UPlay Passport; a publisher's decision.

Yep, same thing that happens now this gen, MCV made a click bait headline about that some people are still confused by. Nothing has changed since Yosp said PS4 will play used games.

 

[AuthenticM]

Saw this in comment,i wonder what aegies think about this leak

How in Flying Baby Jesus Fuck can a console be "always connected" if it doesn't have an Internet connection ?

 

[Plinko]

How in Flying Baby Jesus Fuck can a console be "always connected" if it doesn't have an Internet connection ?

I'm also confused when it comes to the anti-used games, as it appears Microsoft is clearly wanting that in this console.

If you don't have an internet connection, how would it block a used game? Even if it needed to only access the internet once, how would it block used games of those without broadband?

 

[Klocker]

How in Flying Baby Jesus Fuck can a console be "always connected" if it doesn't have an Internet connection ?

what? it is saying IF you have it connected to an online network it will constantly stay updated and connected to Live and its services.

If you don't have it connected to the internet it WILL STILL FUNCTION as an offline game machine but without those online features.

I am certain the PS4 will work the same way and I can't imagine how we got so many pages of people saying otherwise.

I'm also confused when it comes to the anti-used games, as it appears Microsoft is clearly wanting that in this console.

If you don't have an internet connection, how would it block a used game? Even if it needed to only access the internet once, how would it block used games of those without broadband?

that is a whole other conversation which we keep going back to and also is not yet confirmed. If true there will obviously be ways to do it which MS would have had to figure out and I'm sure they will tell us. It's not like they have not thought through EVERY SINGLE contingency for the most number of customers because I am sure they have. I lol every time someone says "buh buh how will that work"? The ways it would work will all be explained sooner than later by Ms once they are ready to reveal it to us.

right now we are talking about whether or not the VGleak article in the OP is saying it is "requiring internet connection" and it obviously does not say that

 

[Kyoufu]

Oh, is it this GameSpot interview?

On possibility of PS4 blocking used games
Yoshida: When you purchase the disc-based games on PS4, it should work on any hardware. So that's what I'm saying.

Then in a separate question. Seemingly unrelated, as there's another question about Vita in the middle.

On activation codes for secondhand PS4 titles
Yoshida: It's a publisher decision. We are not talking about it. Sorry.

Yeah, there are activation codes for second-hand titles on the PS3 and 360 already; Project $10, UPlay Passport; a publisher's decision.

Hmm... So it looks like PS4 will block used games. I mean that's what publishers will opt for, right? Project $10.

I just hope these consoles are not region-locked.

 

[Syphon Filter]

How in Flying Baby Jesus Fuck can a console be "always connected" if it doesn't have an Internet connection ?

you can have internet but that doesn't mean you cant play offline.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Hmm... So it looks like PS4 will block used games. I mean that's what publishers will opt for, right? Project $10.

I just hope these consoles are not region-locked.

Publishers could region lock on the PS3 (one has - Atlus) and block used games on the PS3 and 360 tomorrow if they really wanted to. They do it on the PC already (well not region locking, because region locking is a dumb practice that doesn't do anything but annoy people).

 

[Kyoufu]

Publishers could region lock on the PS3 (one has - Atlus) and block used games on the PS3 and 360 tomorrow if they really wanted to.

That's true. My worry stems from Yoshida dodging the region-lock question :/

 

[bobbytkc]

Hmm... So it looks like PS4 will block used games. I mean that's what publishers will opt for, right? Project $10.

.

Does the ps3 block used games? The situation is the same as it is now.

 

[Reiko]

How in Flying Baby Jesus Fuck can a console be "always connected" if it doesn't have an Internet connection ?

The same way the Xbox 360 is.

 

[Flatline]

Hmm... So it looks like PS4 will block used games. I mean that's what publishers will opt for, right? Project $10.

I just hope these consoles are not region-locked.

To me it looks like Yoshida was talking about activation codes about online gaming exactly like it happens this gen.

 

[Deuterium]

And that is the answer/solution...

Both Microsoft and Sony will deny that they "advocate" blocking used games...however, they will build into their console's design the necessary functions so that the individual Developer/Puplisher's can decide whether to implement the function.

That way, both Microsoft and Sony can have have their cake and eat it too. Brilliant. They can always say that it isn't their decision to block used games, and blame it on the publishers. Meanwhile, the publishers are high fiving each other.

This is even compatible with Yoshida's statements.

 

[grumble]

And that is the answer/solution...

Both Microsoft and Sony will deny that they "advocate" blocking used games...however, they will build into their console's design the necessary functions so that the individual Developer/Puplisher's can decide whether to implement the function.

That way, both Microsoft and Sony can have have their cake and eat it too. Brilliant. They can always say that it isn't their decision to block used games, and blame it on the publishers. Meanwhile, the publishers are high fiving each other.

If they are smart the publishers wouldn't block used games, but charge an activation fee. They get paid over and over!

 

[Deuterium]

If they are smart the publishers wouldn't block used games, but charge an activation fee. They get paid over and over!

Okay...I agree, but you can bet both Microsoft and Sony will get a percentage of that. In either case, I predict both consoles will have this DRM "feature" built-in, leaving the choice up to the Publisher/Developer as to how "draconian" they want to be on this.

 

[Coxy]

Then qualified it with third parties can do whatever they want.

they could do whatever they wanted on ps3 too, always online was implemented in final fight, possibly other games, region lock was implemented on persona 4 arena. Thois games just got crucified for it

 

[Plinko]

what? it is saying IF you have it connected to an online network it will constantly stay updated and connected to Live and its services.

If you don't have it connected to the internet it WILL STILL FUNCTION as an offline game machine but without those online features.

I am certain the PS4 will work the same way and I can't imagine how we got so many pages of people saying otherwise.




that is a whole other conversation which we keep going back to and also is not yet confirmed. If true there will obviously be ways to do it which MS would have had to figure out and I'm sure they will tell us. It's not like they have not thought through EVERY SINGLE contingency for the most number of customers because I am sure they have. I lol every time someone says "buh buh how will that work"? The ways it would work will all be explained sooner than later by Ms once they are ready to reveal it to us.

right now we are talking about whether or not the VGleak article in the OP is saying it is "requiring internet connection" and it obviously does not say that

1. You don't dictate the direction of the conversation. If you don't like it, don't respond to it.

2. All of these issues are interrelated.

 

[grumble]

Okay...I agree, but you can bet both Microsoft and Sony will get a percentage of that.

Sure, it's a store sale. They get their thirty percent.

The real loser is GameStop and the consumer, and this might bite them in the ass. GameStop is their foremost game distributor, and if that firm is weak then their distribution is weak. Imagine if half the gamestops closed?

This hurts GameStop by reducing their margin on games. The market won't support a used game with an activation fee unless it is priced lower to compensate. That lower price is margin. They make up for it partly by reducing trade in value so consumers trading games get screwed too. Also for very cheap games like five dollar bin games, the real price is fifteen dollars which kills low end deals on used titles.

So cripples second hand sales and GameStop but makes them more cash. Worth it? A smaller but more profitable industry might make sense. Who knows?

 

[Deuterium]

Sure, it's a store sale. They get their thirty percent.

The real loser is GameStop and the consumer, and this might bite them in the ass. GameStop is their foremost game distributor, and if that firm is weak then their distribution is weak. Imagine if half the gamestops closed?

This hurts GameStop by reducing their margin on games. The market won't support a used game with an activation fee unless it is priced lower to compensate. That lower price is margin. They make up for it partly by reducing trade in value so consumers trading games get screwed too. Also for very cheap games like five dollar bin games, the real price is fifteen dollars which kills low end deals on used titles.

So cripples second hand sales and GameStop but makes them more cash. Worth it? A smaller but more profitable industry might make sense. Who knows?

No argument here.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Is this old? Edge says the screenshot is entirely legitimate.

Fresh documents posted on vgleaks.com related to the next Xbox are real, our source has confirmed.

Our insider described the screengrabs from the Durango SDK on vgleaks.com as “entirely legitimate”, although they contain much of the same information we revealed on February 6th, and were circulated to developers working with the console last year.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/new-always-on-always-connected-durango-leak-is-real/

 

[Syphon Filter]

The same way the Xbox 360 is.

i agree although i don't see why it needs to be advertised as a function for 720 since it is an old feature.

 

[Syphon Filter]

It does reveal, however, that all games on Blu-Ray will be installed onto the console’s hard drive, and that play from the optical disc will not be supported. Game players will, however, be able to play games as they are being installed on the console.

so like steam basically? seems cool to me.

 

[Tom Penny]

Even if you don't always have to be online how exactly do you activate a game if you don't have internet?

 

[Klocker]

1. You don't dictate the direction of the conversation. If you don't like it, don't respond to it.

2. All of these issues are interrelated.

interjecting the used game argument to back up a supposition that internet is REQUIRED to play on the 720 is not reasonable at this time as the one does not exclude the other.

We have more evidence (and common sense) to suggest that online is not required and if used games are blocked there will obviously be a way to do that even if you can not connect to the internet and MS will explain how if true.

 

[Dunlop]

If they are smart the publishers wouldn't block used games, but charge an activation fee. They get paid over and over!

This is what the online passes are for this gen, ironically Gamestop and the like could have avoided there even being a chance of this by giving the devs a percentage of sales.

 

[Klocker]

i agree although i don't see why it needs to be advertised as a function for 720 since it is an old feature.

the most specific comment was that it now goes into a low power mode rather than shut down for instant on (and hopefully game resume) and I assume can take direction from other devices as well to wake up

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Even if you don't always have to be online how exactly do you activate a game if you don't have internet?

They said you need to activate it online?

 

[grumble]

No argument here.

to be honest though GameStop has so much market power that they could push back. If a developer uses an online code for their title, just don't push it. After all, other games they sell can come back as used titles with fat margins. If Durango blocks used games (unlikely) then their sales force would be told to push ps4s. Physical retail is here to stay for large titles for bandwidth reasons for at least another ten to thirty years, and they can squeeze the industry right back. In both cases, the consumer loses.

 

[Zen]

Hmm... So it looks like PS4 will block used games. I mean that's what publishers will opt for, right? Project $10.

I just hope these consoles are not region-locked.

That's not what taht post says at all. It's a publisher decision through their own initiatives.

 

[Dunlop]

47 pages now based off interpreting a few lines

What's hilarious is people are talking more about Durango now than PS4 and MS has not even confirmed it's existance.

The unveiling will be glorious on this board

 

[Klocker]

yea I really don't want to be at the mercy of Target and Walmart for my gaming needs. :lol

Spoiler

I'm counting on full on DD day 1 this gen though as I would be happy to never see another disc again

 

[shinra-bansho]

interjecting the used game argument to back up a supposition that internet is REQUIRED to play on the 720 is not reasonable at this time as the one does not exclude the other.

We have more evidence (and common sense) to suggest that online is not required and if used games are blocked there will obviously be a way to do that even if you can not connect to the internet and MS will explain how if true.

I don't think anyone's suggesting it will need to be constantly connected to play a la Sim City (well at least I don't think that's what's implied), they're just putting two and two together and seeing it as a requirement to activate.

Sony have a patent around using RFID for product activation iirc, so if they do decide to implement something that's presumably how they'd do it.