Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
PS4/Nextbox are going to have a fantastic launch for sales. It's the following year I worry about.
Nintendo to meet UK retailers after unofficial Wii U price cuts fail
- Thread starter CrunchinJelly
- Start date
PS4/Nextbox are going to have a fantastic launch for sales. It's the following year I worry about.
Poor sells wasn't the main reason that was their last console.
shinra-bansho
Member
How many copies did NSMBWii sell again?
I've put forward the proposition before, but: it's perfectly conceivable that the consumer who will buy a console to play Mario Kart U, is the consumer who is already buying the console to play New Super Mario Bros U.
Prior to the launch, no one seemed to consider the notion that games like NSMB on the Wii didn't in themselves move hardware and didn't reach their sales heights on their own, they had the juggernaut of Wii Sports/Motion Control behind them. It's now playing out as expected, considering this notion. And this notion applies to Mario Kart as well.
As stated before: Next generation games sell next generation consoles.
Neff
Member
Nobody can possibly know that. But if I were a businessman who knows the industry, I'd know that you can make plenty of money if you're hanging off Mario's nutsack and have a good product.
Aside from Retro, Platinum, and Nintendo themselves, we know that Capcom and Sega are making Wii U games, who both obviously very much understand the above philosophy. Shitty canned sci-fi shooter licenses aside, it's doubtful that they'll get cold feet. They also seem to be a few of the remaining developers in the world who don't think Nintendo are pricks. Almost every other dev that isn't Ubisoft seems to be running a mile, but they aren't going to make or break the system.
Wii U doesn't need world-dominating 3rd-party support. It just needs to start generating the Nintendo effect by widening the gates a little with essential first party games. 3rd parties will inevitably follow. It's the first party stuff that's important, and have no doubt, it's coming. Quite a bit of it.
I'm afraid this is what is going to happen.
Both will sell out, I have no doubt about that. But consoles normally sell well initially, then have a dry period, and then pick up again for the holiday season as that is when the next wave of games come about.
Chittagong
Gold Member
The incredible thing is that Wii U console was announced and fully unveiled in Spring/Summer 2011, which means SDKs were available to NCL teams well in 2010.
2010.
All this time later they have been unable to produce any marketable material of their big franchises, or in fact anything original that has been genuinely designed with the Wii U performance in mind. Technically unambitious Nintendoland aside, we haven't seen anything truly made for the Wii U ground up by NCL.
2010. 2013. Surely it is not unwarranted to ask - what on earth is going on at NCL.
2010.
All this time later they have been unable to produce any marketable material of their big franchises, or in fact anything original that has been genuinely designed with the Wii U performance in mind. Technically unambitious Nintendoland aside, we haven't seen anything truly made for the Wii U ground up by NCL.
2010. 2013. Surely it is not unwarranted to ask - what on earth is going on at NCL.
This is why we get a million sequels from assassins creed, cod and all the other AAA games. Why can't Nintendo try and make something different, like they actually did with Wii sports in the first place instead of ask for a quick sequel and then moan when we get nothing new from Nintendo (apparently).
I get now isn't the time for Nintendo to get creative, but at the same time that could be the answer. More creative games.
Wickerbasket
Member
What does this even mean? What view are you talking about? That I don't believe the Wii U is in a similar situation to the Wii? Because it's not, the Wii was a unique experience that people hadn't had before and was marketed as such. It also had one of the best launch games ever, in my opinion, that could be instantly picked up and played by the whole family. It had a wide appeal that the Wii U lacks.
Do you believe the Wii U is in a similar situation to the Wii? Will the next iteration of Mario Kart be able to reach the numbers it attained on Wii?
I'm genuinely interested to hear you views and reasoning.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Fair point, but to be fair, Nintendo oversaturated the market with a 2D Mario game mere months before the Wii U version. It was a stupid move.
akidnamededdy
Banned
I dunno, I think it'd certainly help. I don't doubt that there are at least some people who would buy a Wii U to play Mario Kart.
First party, third party...the bottom line is the thing needs more games soon. A little price cut like that isn't going to help right now.
This is true to a degree and is the same reason why NSMBU didn't make tons of people pick up a Wii U (although one has to assume some of the launch purchasers bought one to play NSMBU). NSMBU and Mario Kart are similar in that way.
Aquamarine
Member
Except the 3DS was averaging ~25,000 a week in Japan during its "troubled phase."
The Wii U is currently averaging like ~10,000 a week.
Joeshabadoo
Member
Lots of people in here seem to think that the current WiiU struggles will be unique to Nintendo and MS/Sony have nothing to worry about
timetokill
Banned
It's clear they weren't working on Wii U, especially in 2010. They were focused on making sure the 3DS didn't crater. Mission accomplished there, but at the cost of the Wii U's first year.
It's clear they expected they'd be getting every major third-party title ported in 2013 with some potential "best in class" features and those aren't panning out.
If they have a stacked Sept-Dec for this year then things aren't entirely out of control. That doesn't seem particularly likely, though.
They'll almost certainly have Mario Kart, but mega-sellers beyond that? They better have a Wii Fit level phenomenon on their hands.
Yet despite that, NSMBU has an incredibly high attachment rate. I believe it's owned by 2 of 3 Wii U owners
Let's not forget that we're also expecting 3D Mario this year too, and no doubt another potential slew of Wii U titles such as Yarn Yoshi and Wind Waker HD; things we know of and more than likely things unknown that will be revealed during the year as well.
Mario Kart U is only a part of the bigger picture. A big part perhaps, but still just a part.
Either Nintendo has the most packed line up this holiday season or they have are having major issues developing content for an HD system.
That's because there was nothing else but ports and ZombiU. Consider the average person who's buying a Nintendo console during at launch. He/She is probably a Nintendo fan who wants their newest console no matter what. Are you going to tell me that they'd pick up Tekken or Call of Duty over the latest Mario game? It makes sense that the only real Nintendo game not bundled would sell a lot and have a large attach rate when you consider the audience of a launch window purchaser.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Ask Iwata.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Except the 3DS was averaging ~25,000 a week in Japan during its "troubled phase."
The Wii U is currently averaging like ~10,000 a week.
This is Japan only numbers, huh? Do you have NA/EU 3DS numbers for a comparison?
Pachterballs
Banned
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Not having a selling point is pretty unique to Wii U.
PS4 and 720 will look great. Both companies are competent enough to ensure they have a strong line up at launch and both will have great third party support.
Chittagong
Gold Member
NPD is US. EU numbers for both GCN and Wii U would be much worse - but Wii was massive here, as was DS.
Mithos
Member
Would be interesting to see a list of the games that was out during the same timeframe, and the upcoming 6 months for both as well.
Pikmin, Wind Waker HD, Mario Kart U, A new 3D Mario, Warioware, X, SMT x FE, Wii Fit U as well as Bayonetta 2 and The wonderful 101 have all been announced and most likely going to be released this year.
Add to this Retro's title (most likely Mertroid or Starfox or something key from Nintendo's IP) which was actually going to be shown at e3 last year but was pulled last minute...all this leads me to believe they have shit in the works, and haven't been sitting on their arse all this time.
I guess for better or worse Nintendo like taking time with games, even in times like this. They could throw pikmin 3 out today on the eShop if they wanted, but I guess they love taking time, with everything.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I was responding mainly to your comment about the Wii being "an anomaly." I find it similar to the "fad" talk that happens on here, and I find it ridiculous. Motion controls certainly helped sell the system, but I still don't get why people call it a "fad." It sold extremely well for over 5 years. It was obviously doing something right.
But obviously enough people didn't want a Mario game bad enough to buy the system.
This is mind-boggling to me. I just can't believe they were so ill-prepared for this system launch. They REALLY need new leadership.
I may have a soft view of where they are right now, but I do have a harsh view of where I think they're headed (a collaboration with another company for their next console).
radioheadrule83
Banned
NSMBU, though good, is so derivative of NSMBWii that it looks like the same game to some people. It doesn't showcase the new hardware in any significant way, and it launched mere months after NSMB2 and on a console that costs upwards of $250 (if you don't get the tard pack). The Wii can now be found for $99 or $120 with a pack-in. $75 for a return unit. The game simply isn't doing or offering enough to justify a $250+ purchase... And I reiterate, its a good game.
Mario Kart could be similar, but there again, its been as successful as Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Halo and GT5 -- more successful in some cases, on Wii and DS. To act as though its not a power selling franchise doesn't really make sense in that context.
In some cases they are likely *deliberately* holding back game reveals.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Believing Nintendo with their release dates is pretty damn silly after this launch.
I doubt both Wind Waker and Mario will come out this year.
Chittagong
Gold Member
They all have a number of problems next gen.
Microsoft's problem is that they killed / sold all their best first party studios, Kinect isn't quite the Minority Report future it was made out to be, and the console might have ended up underpowered.
Sony's problem is that they just are not very good at all in the whole ecosystem thing, services and apps, and that their console isn't technically leagues ahead of the PC market or blazing any new trails.
Nintendo's problem is some weird HD game writer's block, they just seem patently unable to make games for the Wii U.
In terms of the severity of the problems this gen
Nintendo > Microsoft > Sony
Gamecube's biggest launch games were things like Luigi's Mansion, Wave Race: Blue Storm, Star Wars Rogue Squadron 2 and Super Monkey Ball. Launch window included things such as Super Smash Bros. Melee, Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, Star Fox Adventures and Pikmin.
Wii U has NSMBU, ZombiU and only just recently is coming out with Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate and Lego City Undercover. We're getting Pikmin 3 and TW101... Who knows when.
Games aside they both launched under rather different circumstances.
Canis lupus
Member
Yes. They will let people know the game is real and coming, just not this year. They announced titles at the January ND they would otherwise announce at E3. Nintendo is forced to show their cards way too early due to the current situation.
Exactly, I'm sure they'll have a stellar E3 but don't think much of the heavy hitters will come out this holiday.
Little Green Yoda
Member
How's the Wii U doing relative to the PS3 launch aligned in handheld-land? Is it wrong to assume that PS3 numbers is the absolute ceiling for the Wii U in Japan barring a huge shift/turnaround?
The problem with Nintendo is that they need western 3rd party devs on board with their home console and that clearly isn't happening outside of late ports. It's far less of an issue with the 3DS - software is merely a matter of how many of those Japanese developed titles get localized.
Maybe so, and I understand the skepticism, but whether or not they come out this year, they have been working on them and not fiddling their thumbs. Like I said, Nintendo never seen to succumb to these situations for better or worse.
SolarPowered
Member
There ain't a single "hardcore" bone in the Wii U's body. This thing looks like a current gen console(note: I'm aware it's more powerful than a 360/PS3) strapped to an overly expensive tablet.
Nothing appealing about it for many of the 150+ million people who've been gaming on a 360 or PS3 for seven years.
shinra-bansho
Member
One of many.
-Nintendo mistook NSMB sales on the Wii for massive growth in the franchise; when the reality is that the large installed base built up by motion control simply contained a conducive audience within it for games like NSMB, Mario Kart. They're making the same mistake with banking on Mario Kart, 3D Mario, etc. I think - but hey, maybe they'll prove me wrong.
-Nintendo thought this, coupled with a novelty touchscreen (which, in 2012, no one really considers a novelty) and Nintendo Land as their spiritual Wii Sports successor would be sufficient to sell the system to the expanded audience they had on the Wii.
-They did this after letting the Wii languish on the market for years, as they tried to come to terms with HD development (and apparently still haven't.
-They did this in lieu of a more significant jump in hardware power, leaving them with a system of comparable (yes, it's more powerful, whatever, it's still comparable) performance to the PS3 and 360. To their credit, getting such performance in a low power, low profile form is an engineering feat - but it came at a cost.
-Lightning hasn't struck twice. The Gamepad is no Wii Mote. Nintendo are now left with a nominally new system, which looks similar in performance to systems on the market for 7 years, but with far less software and far less software coming, and at a price premium. In other words, a system with absolutely no incentive for someone who has owned a PS3 or 360 for a long time to upgrade.
This is all without mentioning problems with third parties.
It's not just the name, it's not just the marketing, it's not just the sparsity of software. At its core the product is somewhat flawed for the market.
I mean they whore out their mascots too many times and on too many titles. For every main Mario title there's also Mario Paper, Mario 3D, etc. It's like it never occurs to them to develop these new properties using new characters to expand their stable. After a while people do get sick of the repetitions except the diehard fans like you maybe.
But what about the 100 million Wii owners? Or the 20 million I'm guessing hardcore Nintendo fans who bought the GameCube? The 30 million people who bought the 3DS?
Hey.. if 3rd parties dont like you them... screw them. Simple!
Open up a Nintendo development studio in Poland, expand the existing ones in America, open another one in UK; and a few other countries.
EA screwed you over? Develop a good football game, that doesnt suck like Fifa; and buy champions league mode.
Open up a Nintendo development studio in Poland, expand the existing ones in America, open another one in UK; and a few other countries.
EA screwed you over? Develop a good football game, that doesnt suck like Fifa; and buy champions league mode.
Nintendo has simply made the same launch mistakes it's made with the 3DS.
The problems apply to both of them really :
The problems apply to both of them really :
- Games have been sparse so far. While some of the launch titles were great, we're just starting this week to see big name games coming out (and really they're not actually big names - they're just bigger than the average indie title coming out on the eShop). I've downloaded Lego City Undercover, waiting for my NFS:MWU to arrive and seen great things out of MH3U (on the Giant Bomb Quick Look for example). But then we're looking at another small drought it seems. Nintendo will have once again been caught flat-footed and will have to ramp up and change focus like they did with the 3DS. We're now seeing an onslaught of great titles - just this year we've had or will have Fire Emblem, EO4, Luigi's Mansion 2, Animal Crossing, Project X Zone, Mario Golf, Mario & Luigi, Pokemon X&Y and more unannounced. And now people are starting to get interested in it. It's not a coincidence. It now has a great library featuring some 2011 and 2012 titles as well like OoT 3D, Mario 3D Land, Star Fox 3D, Mario Kart 7, Kid Icarus Uprising, Pushmo/Crashmo, Paper Mario, Professor Layton and more. With the Nintendo Direct we've seen in January, we know they know there's a problem with the game output we've seen so far and I have no doubt in the end we'll have a nice selection of titles to play. The price is one thing, and yes it may have been priced a tad bit high (though the 3DS was in worse shape price-wise and the 3DS would sell better right now at 250$ than at launch in July 2011 for 170$ with little to no games to choose from), but it's the game output, branding and marketing that've been the biggest problems. Cutting the price does nothing (or not much of significance at least) except please/anger early adopters because of Ambassador Program/paying more than the others. So aside from games we're looking at...
- Confusing branding/name. Many think the Wii U is simply a tablet for their Wii - an add on. They want to buy the controller by itself. With the 3DS, many thought (and still think) that it was also not a new, more powerful new console with many new features but simply a DS with a 3D mode. The fact they launched the DSi which changed up many of the features of the original DS and DS Lite meant the fact the 3DS had new features didn't necessarily mean to these people that it was a new console. You only have to check listings of customer reviews on 3DS games to see people disapointed with a 3DS game not working in their DS. I have even seen someone selling a newish 3DS game for just a few bucks a couple of days after Christmas because it didn't work with their son's DS.
The Wii U suffers from the same problem - it's not clear it's a new console because it looks the same as its predecessor, shares the same name and was not marketed too well, which brings to the next point
- The marketing has been atrocious. Most people don't know it exists. The ads, when seen at all, are weak and don't scream ''try me out !''. It's cool to tell people that it is a fun console, but that fun comes from experiencing it and not having the motion controls advantage like last time around makes it tougher to get people to give it a try.
All in all though, it IS a great console and I'm glad to have gotten it day one. There's not a single person whom I've played it with that didn't enjoy Nintendoland - there's just not the novelty factor of motion controls which pressed people to tell their friends about this new tech they saw. But the main point of a console - it being fun - is very much present. Friends, cousins, parents, sister, her friends and more have all had a blast and if you're looking for a way to get someone screaming and getting really into something, getting them to play with this console is a great way.
radioheadrule83
Banned
It'll have new competition, but it'll also be cheaper and have games
Aquamarine
Member
Japan:
----3DS averaged ~25,000 a week before price cut (Famitsu)
----Wii U currently averaging ~10,000 a week (Famitsu)
America:
Code:
[U][B]3DS sales from launch (NPD)[/B][/U] [U][B]Wii U sales from launch (NPD)[/B][/U]
1st month (5 wk) - 398,000 1st month (4 wk) - 425,000
2nd month (4 wk) - 194,000 2nd month (5 wk) - 460,000
3rd month (4 wk) - 97,000 3rd month (5 wk) - 57,000
4th month (5 wk) - 143,000 4th month (4 wk) - 66,000
5th month (4 wk) - ~92,000 (est.)
6th month (4 wk) - 235,0003DS got its price cut in its 5th month (in America).
My point is...it's not like the 3DS situation. The 3DS has so far outclassed the Wii U during its "troubled times."
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
It seems that people are comparing the Wii U's sales performance to that of the Wii.
But the Wii was a sales blip for Nintendo where they managed to catch the imagination of the general public.
Average sales performance for Nintendo is much more like N64 and GameCube like numbers, both of which did poorly compared to competitors around at the time.
We're just seeing a reversion to the mean here with the Wii U sales, under performing as usual.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii U fails to even do GameCube like numbers over it's lifespan. It's looking more and more like Vita Dead-On-Arrival type numbers than the GameCube.
Retailers are likely wanting hefty price cuts or discounted console+software bundle offers to shift stock from the clogged retail channels. Retailers are probably threatening Nintendo with sending unsold consoles back to them if they don't get their way. Nintendo know that if that happens the stench of failure will kill the console stone dead. So they will have no choice but to capitulate to the retailers demands. No wonder they're dragging their heels.
With other next gen machine announcements hitting at E3, core gamers have no need for a Wii U. Casual players have long ago already moved onto Tablets and Smartphones for their gaming fix.
Which ever way you look at it, Nintendo are screwed this generation.
We could be seeing £100 Wii U systems much quicker than many people ever thought possible...
But the Wii was a sales blip for Nintendo where they managed to catch the imagination of the general public.
Average sales performance for Nintendo is much more like N64 and GameCube like numbers, both of which did poorly compared to competitors around at the time.
We're just seeing a reversion to the mean here with the Wii U sales, under performing as usual.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii U fails to even do GameCube like numbers over it's lifespan. It's looking more and more like Vita Dead-On-Arrival type numbers than the GameCube.
Retailers are likely wanting hefty price cuts or discounted console+software bundle offers to shift stock from the clogged retail channels. Retailers are probably threatening Nintendo with sending unsold consoles back to them if they don't get their way. Nintendo know that if that happens the stench of failure will kill the console stone dead. So they will have no choice but to capitulate to the retailers demands. No wonder they're dragging their heels.
With other next gen machine announcements hitting at E3, core gamers have no need for a Wii U. Casual players have long ago already moved onto Tablets and Smartphones for their gaming fix.
Which ever way you look at it, Nintendo are screwed this generation.
We could be seeing £100 Wii U systems much quicker than many people ever thought possible...
Pachterballs
Banned
Amusing the sort of things bin
test_account
XP-39C²
That is a good point. Consoles gets more and more as multifunctional devices.
Estocolmo
Member
I think that the Wii U is doomed if you look at its sales up to this point. If a 8 year old console sells 5 times more then a newly released console, then I cant see how the tide will turn with a much tougher and newer competition is released this fall in the form of PS4 & Xbox720.
All all seriousness... Nintendo didn't need the game-pad controller. They could had just improved the motion controllers, and make them compatible entirely with "pro games" (dual analogs, triggers and everything on the standard wii-mote and nun-chunk combination) .
This generation was in need of an evolution not a revolution.
This generation was in need of an evolution not a revolution.
Another 3DS mistake they made again was price. $350 for the deluxe should be $50-$100 cheaper, but the inclusion of the expensive Game Pad made the price be way too high for the casual market just like the 3DS was too expensive. They can't lower it without taking massive losses now. The 3DS was overpriced so they could make a bunch of profits, where with the Wii U they're making very minimal profit. They really should have stuck with the Wii Remote and priced the console at $250. The Game Pad made the console way more expensive than it needs to be.