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[Nemesis_]

Handymen were elaborated on in the logs. Basically women whose husbands passed away early due to illness and what not could be "restored" as handymen.

I agree Songbird was under-utilised though.

But did anyone notice they eluded to his weakness to water after you escape? He goes into the water with you but retreats as his eye cracks. I wonder who fixes him *.*

 

[Truant]

Handymen were elaborated on in the logs. Basically women whose husbands passed away early due to illness and what not could be "restored" as handymen.

I got that, but it feels so thin compared to how BS1 handled it. It's almost dream-like in how you're supposed to accept it. BS1 made it feel kinda real by following the progress of how they were able to do it, without telling too much. Here they just "exist".

 

[indigo-cyclops]

Dude just watch the other Bioshock debut trailers.
You are never that guy in the videos. Also, they both die so it's pretty obvious that it's not booker or jack.

The technology Columbia uses to 'float' is vastly different in the debut trailer, which I found interesting. Booker makes a comment about it too in the game; something like "Oh I thought it was big balloons". Wonder how different the story was...

 

[Nemesis_]

I got that, but it feels so thin compared to how BS1 handled it. It's almost dream-like in how you're supposed to accept it. BS1 made it feel kinda real by following the progress of how they were able to do it, without telling too much. Here they just "exist".

I suppose. The only reason I don't take too much issue with it is simply because, as you said, it doesn't seem to be the focus in the story. The game already had enough to explain I guess >_>

Quick question though - someone wanna explain why "Esther" recognises Elizabeth as Annabelle?

Shouldn't these components of this reality not exist within the reality of Columbia?

EDIT: Oh wow, you find out she is someone who has been "waiting for" the false shepherd to arrive. Which I assume means she has been informed on who Booker is and such so she is looking out for a girl named Annabelle. I think? Well that's what I got from her vox.

Man these subtle details following are so good.

 

[GavinGT]

I guess Infinite is less about Columbia and more about Booker and Liz, where as Bioshock was mostly about the city of Rapture itself. Still, it would be nice to get some insight into what went on regarding the vigors, handymen, and the Songbird.

I agree. But it would almost need to be a larger game just to fit that stuff in.

If I had to guess, the three add-on packs will focus on those very three subjects. For instance, a DLC story set in an expansive vigor factory could easily add depth to that part of the fiction.

Here's what I've inferred about vigors (possibly all wrong):

- they were created by the Lucetes and sold to Fink
- they're based around quantum mechanics
- Comstock allowed Fink to sell Vigors to the people in order to demonstrate his legitimacy as a prophet
- Comstock also isn't about to stand in the way of unfettered capitalism

 

[MrCookiepants]

Did everyone else notice the destroyed Big Daddy and crying Little Sister in Rapture? Man, that whole part was amazing. Still trying to piece the ending together.

Also, I'm glad I wasn't the only one calling the twins 'Lettuce'.

 

[Nemesis_]

Man, every scene with the Songbird is so immaculately put together. I love him ;_;

Anyone else have ALL THE FEELS during his drowning?

It's interesting because the team wanted something that was menacing but also something that was "cuddly" or something to that effect. I can't remember what word they used, but I understand where they are coming from. It's fantastic.

 

[Jofamo]

Did everyone else notice the destroyed Big Daddy and crying Little Sister in Rapture? Man, that whole part was amazing. Still trying to piece the ending together.

How the hell could I have missed that? I looked around a bit, but Elizabeth ran off so I followed. Where is that? Dammit I need to watch that again.

Irrational need to patch in the Songbird carcass into Bioshock.

 

[Nemesis_]

Irrational need to patch in the Songbird carcass into Bioshock.

I want to tweet this to Ken but there is no way to do it without ruining it for SOMEBODY.

 

[MrCookiepants]

How the hell could I have missed that? I looked around a bit, but Elizabeth ran off so I followed. Where is that? Dammit I need to watch that again.

Irrational need to patch in the Songbird carcass into Bioshock.

If you look out through the glass you'll see them off in a tube.

So... was Ken trolling us with all those Elizabeth redesigns throughout development? That part made me smile.

 

[BraXzy]

Hey guys.. Still trying to get my head around it.. in the mean time, here are some screens I took that might help with speculations and stuff

Dates might be useful?

The drawing of her is him, goes along with the one and the same person explanation.

That very first telegram

You see AD on his hand from the get go

 

[Vire]

Question, why would Booker go on the entire adventure to wipe away the debt if he already sold off Anna and cleared his debt?

It doesn't make much sense.

 

[Nemesis_]

Question, why would Booker go on the entire adventure to wipe away the debt if he already sold off Anna and cleared his debt?

It doesn't make much sense.

These aren't events that take place along the same continuum of time, though. They are events that take place in alternate histories.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Love the game and the story, though I've got to wonder why the Letuces saw fit to warn Booker of number 77 rather than simply giving him a pair of gloves.

 

[Noray]

Question about the very end: If Booker dies before his baptism and thus Anna was never born, how is Elizabeth still alive at the end? All the other Liz's disappear. Shouldn't she be gone too?

And what does everyone make of the post-credits scene? Is it real?

Also in Lutece's lab there's a picture of Booker's office with the address written on it, and a picture of the lighthouse that says "His only obstacle". What do they mean by that?

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Man, every scene with the Songbird is so immaculately put together. I love him ;_;

Anyone else have ALL THE FEELS during his drowning?

It's interesting because the team wanted something that was menacing but also something that was "cuddly" or something to that effect. I can't remember what word they used, but I understand where they are coming from. It's fantastic.

I liked what they did with the songbird, and I'm glad they didn't 'monster-rize’ it, by having us fight it.

Even though the bridge scene in the 2010 trailer looked awesome.

 

[Nemesis_]

I liked what they did with the songbird, and I'm glad they didn't 'monster-rize’ it, by having us fight it.

Even though the bridge scene in the 2010 trailer looked awesome.

I don't really care about fighting it and what not, I just mean I felt like it was absent more than it should have been, if that makes sense. He just appeared randomly and didn't have a presence much :/

 

[Guess Who]

Question, why would Booker go on the entire adventure to wipe away the debt if he already sold off Anna and cleared his debt?

It doesn't make much sense.

He doesn't remember selling Anna. Hence the "his mind is coming up with new memories" scene.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

I don't really care about fighting it and what not, I just mean I felt like it was absent more than it should have been, if that makes sense. He just appeared randomly and didn't have a presence much :/

Aye, true.

Those parts when he did appear, as you've said, were eventful.

Hopefully, one of the DLC packs will focus on the songbird.

 

[Vire]

He doesn't remember selling Anna. Hence the "his mind is coming up with new memories" scene.

Yeah, just seems like a lame copout.

How do you not remember selling your first born child.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I want to see what happens if you choose tails instead of heads during the first encounter with the lettuces.

You as the player don't really get to choose

Also what happens if you choose a different pendant? I chose the bird, for example.

I chose the bird, everything remains as usuall (well you can't really tell, but nothing was out of the ordinary).
I think it might have something to do with the letter you get from old elizabeth, mine had a cage in it (again, I chose the bird pedant).

You'll still get the same letter with the cage since C-A-G-E are musical notes.

 

[Nemesis_]

Yeah, just seems like a lame copout.

How do you not remember selling your first born child.

Don't they explain this by talking about how when you are interacting between tears that things go wrong with your mind? See: everyone following the Chen Lin tear.

Hopefully, one of the DLC packs will focus on the songbird.

I wonder how they will do it if they do. I do have faith in Ken though. Especially after I was very worried he would shoehorn the original Bioshock game into this one - but he didn't. He did it quite naturally and I was so happy to see the way it was done.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Question about the very end: If Booker dies before his baptism and thus Anna was never born, how is Elizabeth still alive at the end? All the other Liz's disappear. Shouldn't she be gone too?

They disappear one by one to piano notes, and on the last note the screen goes black, could imply that they are all gone.

 

[Guess Who]

Yeah, just seems like a lame copout.

How do you not remember selling your first born child.

The impression I got was that his memories were somehow modified by something - either crossing through the timelines or deliberately by the Luteces - and his mind came up with the "rescue the girl and wipe away the debt" story. Hence the scene where Mr. Lutece says that his brain is manufacturing new memories from his old ones.

 

[Angelus Errare]

It wasn't the Lucetes who wiped his memory, if they had such abilities then all of Bioshock Infinite could have been avoided if they just wiped Comstock's.

 

[iMax]

The technology Columbia uses to 'float' is vastly different in the debut trailer, which I found interesting. Booker makes a comment about it too in the game; something like "Oh I thought it was big balloons". Wonder how different the story was...

Still don't get this. I know the buildings are quantum-locked but why do they still have massive fans underneath them?

Question about the very end: If Booker dies before his baptism and thus Anna was never born, how is Elizabeth still alive at the end? All the other Liz's disappear. Shouldn't she be gone too?

It's an Inception ending. We're led to believe that the final piano note signifies her disappearing but the smash cut right before essentially stops the player from ever knowing the truth.

 

[WanderingWind]

Another interesting twist is that you play the entire game as a big ole racist.

 

[disappeared]

Yeah, just seems like a lame copout.

How do you not remember selling your first born child.

He "does" remember the transaction, but "doesn't."

The baptism is essentially the reset button.

When Elizabeth asks Booker about her finger after he kills Comstock, he says, almost unconvincingly, that he doesn't know. The way he voices it seems to hint at some underlying doubt about the denial.

 

[Vire]

He "does" remember the transaction, but "doesn't."

The baptism is essentially the reset button.

When Elizabeth asks Booker about her finger after he kills Comstock, he says, almost unconvincingly, that he doesn't know. The way he voices it seems to hint at some underlying doubt about the denial.

Very true, I remember this particular moment.

 

[BraXzy]

I agree Songbird was under-utilised though.

I disagree. I thought the rarity and amazement each time it appeared made it all the more interesting and scary. If it had showed up constantly, or was a boss to fight it wouldn't be the same.

 

[Truant]

IIRC the "quantum" engine thingies were always there. The fans are there to move the buildings.ø

 

[SGRemy]

I didn't read the earlier pages, but was the Esther character speculated on?

She's the girl u meet in battleship bay or watever. She's right after the game room and she reacts to Elizabeth. "Annabelle is that you?"

How would she know Liz's real name??

 

[Sn4ke_911]

 

[Vire]

I just noticed something, the note at the very beginning of the door says "Bring us the girl and wipe away the debt. This is your last chance." Last chance, which may imply that he tried to rescue Elizabeth before, but failed. The flipping coin sequence also seems to imply that as well.

Does this mean that this was the final attempt and the cycle was finally broken? The post credits seem to imply that.

 

[Nemesis_]

I didn't read the earlier pages, but was the Esther character speculated on?

She's the girl u meet in battleship bay or watever. She's right after the game room and she reacts to Elizabeth. "Annabelle is that you?"

How would she know Liz's real name??

There is a recording in the room following.

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but you find said recording in the security office. She laments on how bored she is of waiting following announcement of Booker's arrival (ie. she wants to move in since they know who it is) which to me indicates she was working undercover and wanted to confirm it was her.

I think?

I disagree. I thought the rarity and amazement each time it appeared made it all the more interesting and scary. If it had showed up constantly, or was a boss to fight it wouldn't be the same.

As I said before, I don't want a boss battle but I did want to see him a little bit more. EVEN if it meant seeing him flying around the tower a long distant away on the beach, for example.

I guess it doesn't matter ultimately because I still felt something when Elizabeth drowned him in the waters of Rapture. That was truly something else. (PS. MORE HIGH QUALITY PICS OF THE SONGBIRD PLEASE )

 

[GavinGT]

I just noticed something, the note at the very beginning of the door says "Bring us the girl and wipe away the debt. This is your last chance." Last chance, which may imply that he tried to rescue Elizabeth before, but failed. The flipping coin sequence also seems to imply that as well.

Does this mean that this was the final attempt and the cycle was finally broken? The post credits seem to imply that.

But that note was just a figment of his past memory, from when they wanted baby Anna.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Still don't get this. I know the buildings are quantum-locked but why do they still have massive fans underneath them?

So they can actually move. The particles keep them suspended in the air in a fixed position, the fans allow the buildings to move.

 

[Vire]

But that note was just a figment of his past memory, from when they wanted baby Anna.

So that scene took "place" before he handed off Anna? Or are you saying that he replaced the memory.

 

[GavinGT]

So they can actually move. The particles keep them suspended in the air in a fixed position, the fans allow the buildings to move.

And what fictional workaround explains why docked buildings continuously bob up and down?

So that scene took "place" before he handed off Anna? Or are you saying that he replaced the memory.

He inserted it into the environment as part of his unconscious effort to reconcile his past memories with his current, self-created version of events.

 

[Nemesis_]

Oh, the game guide has all the log transcripts. Does anyone remember whereabouts you found the one with Fink talking about the biologist? I could type up a transcript if it helps.

Happy to look others up too

Here is the one I was talking about (re: Esther)

VOXOPHONE TRANSCRIPT

NAME: Take Her Alive
AUTHOR: Esther Mailer
DATE: July 6th, 1912
LOCATION: Park Ticketing

This is the moment we trained for. The False Shepherd is here. The day was not exact, but... the Prophet's sight proves out again. The specimen much be taken alive. If she dies, I suspect they will give us to the bird. And whatever pieces it leaves behind will bear no names... That was cigarette number six. This waiting is insufferable.​

So from reading this I guess she was just dispatched by security to retrieve Liz after her rescue by Booker. For some reason, Comstock probably informed them that she could answer to the name of Annabelle maybe? Which highlights that Comstock was aware of her past.

 

[Angelus Errare]

And what fictional workaround explains why docked buildings continuously bob up and down?

Wind

/shrug.

 

[Nemesis_]

Wind

/shrug.

I guess there could be some equilibrium / feedback cycle at play here, and the bobbing indicates the latency between each side of the balance

 

[BraXzy]

The game is so beautiful, I doubt this will be topped any time soon.

At the minute, the only negatives I have are that I wish it was longer, I wish there was more exploring while the city was full of life. I hope the DLC has some aspects of the beginning rather than just guns. "We don't need yer guns!"

The other thing, I wish there was some stuff along the lines of the TV CGI trailer. It would have been great doing some more sky line combat, having areas where you had to scout it and assess the situation. Just more areas that involved the floating city rather than indoors.

 

[Nemesis_]

The game is so beautiful, I doubt this will be topped any time soon.



At the minute, the only negatives I have are that I wish it was longer, I wish there was more exploring while the city was full of life. I hope the DLC has some aspects of the beginning rather than just guns. "We don't need yer guns!"

The other thing, I wish there was some stuff along the lines of the TV CGI trailer. It would have been great doing some more sky line combat, having areas where you had to scout it and assess the situation. Just more areas that involved the floating city rather than indoors.

Are you getting these from somewhere in particular or are they yours? Any more Songbird shots? I really would like to use a few as my phone / laptop wallpaper.

 

[GavinGT]

nm

 

[Vire]

Did they talk about what the DLC would be yet?

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Did they talk about what the DLC would be yet?

Nope.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I guess there could be some equilibrium / feedback cycle at play here, and the bobbing indicates the latency between each side of the balance

I honestly was going to a type a rather long post on my hypothesis of particles, but honestly figured it'd be rather boring.

 

[GavinGT]

Did they talk about what the DLC would be yet?

Side stories with new characters, I think Levine said.

 

[APZonerunner]

Have they said much about why a lot of the pre release stuff isn't in the game, or was shuffled to significantly different places? The 'Revenge of the Jedi' tear ends up right at the start of the game, seen through the observation window in the tower - very different from her accidentally ripping it open trying to revive the horse. As soon as she realized she could raise the dead I was waiting for that horse scene - and it never came. Also the non-hostile NPCs that could turn enemy - seems it was a bigger thing than it ended up being. The postman you could save which isn't in there, too. Probably more. Was the game changed significantly, or were they deliberately building red herrings? The moment when the Songbird takes Elizabeth is significantly different to a prerelease demo, for instance.

EDIT: Examples --
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5it-pAYmKY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=attvYJb6xn8

I know games change in development, but this seems... significant. Especially the second video - E3 2011 - where the core of what the game is seems to have taken shape.