CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
So that's why they're using off the shelf parts.
Kotaku Rumor: Microsoft 6 months behind in game production for X720 [Pastebin = Ban]
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Came in here to say this very thing.
I feel that GoFreak articulated it very well as usual.
You do know that business partners with processor manufacturers don't get information at the same time as consumers right? They have roadmaps that are planned out for 5-10 years ahead.
Apologies if I'm misunderstanding you (I suspect that I am!). But...
The Jaguar being "a new piece of technology" means MS and Sony aren't really ready to launch and are only doing so because Nintendo forced their hands?
But the WiiU new tech isn't a problem? As an aside, what was the WiiU's launch line-up like?
And, whilst I'm nowhere near qualified, I think that new CPU/GPU/APUs aren't just thrust upon MS/Sony. They'll have been working with AMD, surely?
1) While vocally they had to downplay the Wii comparisons, in their minds and pockets they were dead-set on it being like the Wii. If you're not aiming higher, then they are bound to not bring their A game.
2) As it stands, there is nothing on the Wii-U that shows of it has superior tech over the 360 or PS3. The unknown GPU alone is not going to magically make the system much better. Games are slowly coming but damn Nintendo are taking their time.
Once the PS4 and 720 get shown off, that gap will only increase.
SkyMasterson
Member
Would be embarrassing if true. They've had how many years to plan now?
360 is going to turn 8 years old this November(Which is crazy to think about by the way).
360 is going to turn 8 years old this November(Which is crazy to think about by the way).
You're better off not knowing.
Quinton McLeod
Banned
So, let me get this straight.
AMD contacted Sony and said, "Hey, Sony! In 5 - 10 years, we're going to be releasing a really crappy APU based off our Bobcat core that doesn't exist yet! We're going to market it toward tablets which haven't gain market traction yet, and we want to know if you'd ditch Intel/IBM and go with us!"
And then Sony said, "Hell yeah! Give me two of them babies duct taped together!"
You missed the bit about throwing millions of dollars at them. That always does the trick.
Quinton McLeod
Banned
1) And nobody would understand the minds of Nintendo better than you, hmm?
2) How many times must people point to Need For Speed?? Just how many?
You're confused.
First, modern and new tech don't mean the same thing. Also, its not the processor that's the issue here. For example: during Sony's press conference a few months ago: Where the hell was the console? If it were ready, it would've been showcased, but it wasn't. When Nintendo unveiled the Wii U, there was at least a damned console to look at.
mysteriousmage09
Member
Nintendo didn't force Sony or MS to do anything for god sake. I have no clue about MS' Durango development process since they have been dead silent themselves but Sony has stated they have been working with as many devs as possible and getting as much insight as physically possible and adjusting the console to meet their requests (aka 8 GB GDDR5 Ram making developers giddy and filled with excitement). Also having Mark Cerny on board as the lead architect and listening to what he has to say about the PS4 confirms they have been taking their time making the most solid console design they can in both performance and stability while removing as many bottlenecks as possible.
But please go on spouting your nonsense, I guess the Iwata 3rd parties thread wasn't enough for you.
But please go on spouting your nonsense, I guess the Iwata 3rd parties thread wasn't enough for you.
This is awful. I need to Google "CPU roadmaps".
I hope someone can clarify how manufacturers develop their new hardware with only approximate processing and power consumption envelopes. I mean you wouldn't actually need to know those things, say, 5 years in advance would you??
I hope someone can clarify how manufacturers develop their new hardware with only approximate processing and power consumption envelopes. I mean you wouldn't actually need to know those things, say, 5 years in advance would you??
Alx
Member
No matter how long you've been working on them, all projects will get into "crunch time" mode when you get close to the release. As in "oh god we'll never be ready in time, work harder everybody *whiplash*".
Maybe MS has a worse case than usual, but I've never seen a project releasing on schedule with everyone being cool and relaxed because everything went as planned and they've been ready for two weeks.
I guess this is true then...
I don't think they are.Is that APU in stores right now?
Somewhere in Nintendo HQ a small bell is ringing to signify that somebody, somewhere is talking about the WiiU.
Most of the Nintendo staff are bewildered as to what it means because they've never heard it ring before.
Ahhh. No one does delusion like Nintendo fans.
1) Damn straight. I have Iwata's and Miyamoto's skulls combined with mine. No Reggie, since I cannot handle that kind of pressure.
No company in there right mind wants their product to perform worse than a previous one. They might temper their expectations but they never think it will fail. Logic dictates that, not being able to read Nintendo's mind.
2) Damn, one game with some extra bits. We need those crushing NPD figures ASAP! For the record, I have a Monster Hunter Tri U machine...sorry, a Wii-U.
Quinton McLeod
Banned
Ok... So, if Sony has been taking their sweet time, then they should have a console for us to look at right? If they're releasing the PS4 (supposedly) this year, then there should be a console. I mean, they've been working on it forever, right? Where is it? Where are the live playable game demos? Why is it that only Jimmy Falon can play Killzone and none of us can through a kiosk at Best Buy?
If Sony was working on the system for a long time, then there'd be something tangible to look at. There's nothing but a promise and target renders.... Oh and a controller (which we still don't know everything about).
Would you like to try this one again?
My point is, if Sony had been working on the PS4 for a long time and had the Jaguar in its sights, then it would know not to include it because:
1) Sony wanted 8 cores on an APU that didn't exist!
2) Two cores share 1 MB of L2 cache each. That's a huge oversight if I've ever seen one.
3) The processor is based off the Bobcat core which wasn't that good to begin with.
4) The processor, which isn't all that good anyway, was further down clocked from 3 ghz to 1ghz. Holy sh*t!
5) The processor is an OOO (out of order) processor using GDDR5! That's the biggest bottleneck I've seen in a system.
The system has many bottlenecks, there's no physical console and there's no playable game we saw except Killzone. Sony took their time building this? I think not.
Am I being trolled?
shinra-bansho
Member
I've considered whether it's some sort of joke character or esoteric performance art. But I don't think it is.
Why so salty? It really appears that you need to justify your decision to buy a WiiU...
1) Hoping does not necessarily imply expecting.
2) If noone knows, how can you know it is indeed modern tech. Where do you get your information?
3) They've motivated each other. It's obvious to most observers.
4) Launching a new system does not mark an end to the previous generation. There were ps2 games coming out after ps3 launched.
5) You're funny, I like you.
You clearly haven't seen the devkits on vgleaks have you
I know some people took the opportunity (of there being no physical PS4) as portending doom but, personally, it didn't bother me in the slightest.
I'm not sure where you're going with this. Or where you're coming from for that matter.
I think Sony said the PS4 will be launching this year. Do you think it won't? Or that it will and it won't have any games and/or loads of hardware problems?
If they are launching later this year you expect them to also be ready now?
I'm confused.
Wow.
mysteriousmage09
Member
Holy fuck, nobody can be this dense. When has there EVER been playable demos for new consoles, at stores, several months from release? They showed the PS4 and Killzone on Jimmy Fallon to make the announcement of the console more widespread, they showed actual games on top of the engine demos at the PS event, and most importantly, E3 HASN'T FUCKING HAPPENED YET! Unless you want to believe there won't be playable demos for the attendees there as well.
My fucking lord.
Maybe it's an Andrew Dice Clay type deal where the joke character becomes the real person.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
First of all, I think we need to make distinction between two things. What I objected was your claim that Microsoft didn't rebuild their stable of first party studios in time for the next gen. I think they did. When those studios might have started work on next gen games is another matter entirely.
That said, BigPark was not established (acquired, actually) for Kinect's benefit, although they ended up having their non-Kinect game adapted to Kinect (and later released in its original form on XBLA) and helping on another Kinect project. That game, Kinect Sports Season Two, came out two years ago, and contrary to popular belief, it was chiefly developed by Rare. So two years for an experienced studio, more if they're not targeting the launch.
Good Science released their last (and only) game in 2010, having only worked on compiling Kinect Fun Labs software toys since then. That's another studio with 2+ years on their hands.
We don't know what Microsoft is targeting, and we don't know whether those studios can support that plan. We do know that Turn 10 hasn't released a game in two years, Rare hasn't released a game in two years (and that was a joint project), and Lionhead has two teams (although it's said that the entire company worked on Fable: The Journey so that may not matter; they were hiring for a new IP last year).
EDIT: By the way, it wouldn't surprise me if Lionhead's game got canceled, what with them having gotten a new studio head recently.
Sure, Ryse has been worked on for a number of years now, I'm starting to think that Crimson Dragon has also been moved to Durango, and there are certainly partnerships that haven't been confirmed yet.
I don't think that's as important a factor as you seem to suggest. If you look at Sony's studios, which we could say are largely more established at this point, we see a rather similar situation. Apart from the three studios with already revealed PS4 games, Media Molecule and Naughty Dog's second team (I could perhaps add Team ICO to the list, but they're a mystery), all their other studios have either had current gen games released very recently or rumored for current gen release this year. So I don't see how one is in a much better position than the other, in regard to the launch period, and Sony's studios aren't nearly as fresh as most Microsoft's are.
Quinton McLeod
Banned
That's my point!
Nintendo announced their console one whole year prior to its release and there were playable demos and a physical console to look at.
Here we are, just a few months from the PS4 release, and we don't have playable demos outside of Killzone and there's no physical console. Its silly to assume this console wasn't rushed.
I know some people took the opportunity (of there being no physical PS4) as portending doom but, personally, it didn't bother me in the slightest.
I'm not sure where you're going with this. Or where you're coming from for that matter.
I think Sony said the PS4 will be launching this year. Do you think it won't? Or that it will and it won't have any games and/or loads of hardware problems?
If they are launching later this year you expect them to also be ready now?
I'm confused.
My point is, if Sony had been working on the PS4 for a long time and had the Jaguar in its sights, then it would know not to include it because:
1) Sony wanted 8 cores on an APU that didn't exist!
2) Two cores share 1 MB of L2 cache each. That's a huge oversight if I've ever seen one.
3) The processor is based off the Bobcat core which wasn't that good to begin with.
4) The processor, which isn't all that good anyway, was further down clocked from 3 ghz to 1ghz. Holy sh*t!
5) The processor is an OOO (out of order) processor using GDDR5! That's the biggest bottleneck I've seen in a system.
The system has many bottlenecks, there's no physical console and there's no playable game we saw except Killzone. Sony took their time building this? I think not.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
mysteriousmage09
Member
First off, we are at least 6 months from the PS4 release and they didn't blow their load at their own event because of a little event you may of heard about, its called
This is something that needs to be shouted from the rooftops.
Though you'll likely still be ignored.
A devkit is not a console.
it looks like all 3 console manufacturers have been rushing in some form or another. nintendo rushed the console out without games and a proper OS to get a head start. microsoft rushing the titles, and if the rumors we've heard over the last year are true then sony rushed the physical console (and from the article linked, software but to a lesser extent)?
i wonder if they all did it in response to each other or if it was the collapsing video game home console sales that pushed them to do this.
i wonder if they all did it in response to each other or if it was the collapsing video game home console sales that pushed them to do this.
It isn't the WiiU,for starters.
Alx
Member
I remember many games being rushed and disappointing, but I don't remember anything wrong with the first NNN. I really liked that game.
Cool, thanks for answering. So, for my own curiosity, could you have a looksy at a question I asked above? Here it is again:
I think Sony said the PS4 will be launching this year. Do you think it won't? Or that it will and it won't have any games and/or loads of hardware problems?
As I said, just for my curiosity. If there aren't actually any signs that it was rushed this discussion is just a thought exercise.
Jaguar cores are ultra low power usage. You're comparing them to desktop cores. Stop.
Also, learn what out of order execution is (hint: it's the better of the two)
They added them at the same time as adding the 8Gb DDR5. Cannot wait to see how many bottlenecks those developers will be able to use for sweet eye-candy!
fabricated backlash
Member
So exactly like the 360 launch?
Quinton McLeod
Banned
(-_-;
Alright... One more time.
1) There's no physical console. What's the point in hiding it? All it's going to do is sit in the background while you play your game. Revealing it at E3 isn't going to shock the world. Did Apple hide the iPhone 5 when they announced it? No! What would be the point? Only reason a company would hide a console is if it weren't ready.
2) There were no playable demos. You can _kinda_ count Killzone, but it was only played on stage. I dunno if I really can call that playable. We should be able to play SOMETHING if the console is supposed to be released the same year. You're claiming, "Oh, wait until E3." Sure, I can wait, but that doesn't mean the console wasn't rushed. <-- Which is my point.
3) The system has a ton of bottlenecks. 8 gigs of GDDR5 was a decision made by some 12 year old kid that thought more meant better. If Sony took their time building this system, they'd know that an OOO processor would be handicapped using GDDR5.
4) The processor itself is a low powered _quad core_ CPU with an extra 4 cores duct taped to it. So, there's no crossbar between the clump of cores. So, 4 cores would need to access the memory controller (HT) just to talk to the other cores. That's inefficient. Plus, the cores only have 512kb L2 cache each. Not only that, this processor cannot do multiple threads. You'd think someone at Sony would notice this if they'd taken their time building this... Oh but wait... They didn't take their time making this system.