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[Slayer-33]

If they can get the GPU to even 20X holy shit 0_0

Oh Jesus Christ lol. This is not how it'll work haha

 

[godhandiscen]

Not that I really care to compare since we know nothing on Sony's server structure but when they talked about the network at the PS4 unveil they described it as the largest ever. Not sure what that means as I'm not as informed on those bits about the platform by my contacts as I am about the SW and indie side of things.

Azure is competing with AWS, Heroku, and Google Engine, and have managed a huge market share; 40% according to their PR, which is questionable. Gaikai as far as server arrays goes isn't on the same league. However, Gaikai's true value comes from their technology IP, the ability to stream compressed HD feeds with negligible latency allowing real time gaming. If Sony wanted to match Microsoft, they could just provide some hooks into AWS or Google Engine.

 

[MDX]

Man, they are doing everything to keep people online.

 

[B.O.O.M]

This thread is depressing. I can't believe the lengths people would go to blindly defend something like this...it's impressive in its own way really

PS: I would laugh my ass off if they announce XBL Silver is no more! That's pretty much all there's left at this point

 

[jett]

Hehehehahahahahahahuahuahuaha at godhandiscen and dopeyfish promoting this bullshit. Of course.

 

[sestrugen]

The unlimited power of the cloud (40x) that can't provide BC.

Sure I get that.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Aren't you the one who got Reiko banned with your lies and mischieve? Oh yes, you are.

.

The 12gb of DDR3 Guy?

Interesting.....

 

[Sethos]

 

[Rebel Leader]

Man, they are doing everything to keep people online.

online hateing them.... OH SHIT

WE FELL FOR THE TRAP!

 

[Tesseract]

 

[aganu]

had to.

:lol

 

[Mung]

Hehehehahahahahahahuahuahuaha at godhandiscen and dopeyfish promoting this bullshit. Of course.

I heard that the first guy is the one who fed Reiko the specs bs... is it true?

edit: i see above that it is.

 

[J-Rzez]

Now there are obviously exceptions. Some game journalists are raging. But this shit is ridiculous. EVERY major website right now should be eviscerating Microsoft. IGN should be fucking vomiting at these decisions every five second around the clock until the system launches. They should be disemboweling these pathetic PR representatives of these hateful corporations, spitting their sludge all over the faces of everyone who ever purchased games from them, denying them even a second to mislead legions of consumers into thinking the system is anything except what it is: the world's biggest fucking cock being whipped out and slapped across your goddamn face!

MS has a lot of money. They're also known to hire journalists for positions within their company. And then there's the "MS Munchkins" that were utilized in the past, probably presently, and most likely evolved to journalists. I've said this forever, and people told me to take off the tin foil hat, but I'll be damned if this fiasco doesn't prove it. And I don't think they're just in bed with MS, I think they're mixed in with Apple, Google, Samsung, etc. It's just the totem pole effect here. If MS did this in a market with Apple competing, they'd tear MS to pieces over this. But the media has been trying to crush Sony now since last gen.

Remember when they made a big deal like they're whiting knighting it for "gamers" when Sony got arrogant and "$600"? Sony was so evil they just gave MS a free pass on the RRoD basically. Where are these "journalists" now? Because this is far fucking worse than "$600" for consumers. The majority of these sites and their "journalists" are nothing more than a 3rd party advertising/marketing avenue to the highest bidder. These sites not crushing MS right now for these tactics proves just that. If this was Sony it would be an absolute blood bath.

Anyways, good post....

Oh, the cloud... yeah. I'm still waiting for my fridge and microwave who would be connected locally to help out with these computational issues, let alone servers who knows how far away with ping in the 40, 50, 100+ms.

 

[Artorias]

Can somebody make this awesome? I'm no good at photoshops.

 

[DopeyFish]

Dopeyfish hasn't said a word of substance in the 20 threads he's been defending MS in. I'm calling troll and not even a good one. In fact, he's confusing people like me who don't know that much about this stuff and rely on those more technically informed to inform us.

Because its really fucking hard to elaborate when I'm working

I'd have to go into very fine detail over specific things

I'm telling you that's what can be done and that's really good enough.

I'm not sitting here saying sensational horseshit like "omg it will allow you to render at 60 FPS with 64xAA with 10x the texture resolution and 30x the polygonal budget"

No.

There is finite limits in which to work with (because of latency and bandwidth), that's why it will be based around "experience" ie it won't really make the game you're looking at much better.

Things that are done in cloud and locally alternate. So when you take an action against an AI opponent or they are within "range" to do the same, local system takes over. When I say structural physics, I mean if it is something you can't directly interact with. When I say weather, I am talking about charting where it's raining, wind currents (which the rendering engine can work off). Right now it's uni directional and like a light switch.

When I'm talking physics of everything, imagine you looking down from a tall building at all the cars moving around, the physics of the cars just driving around are a resource waste, the AI that is controlling the cars are a resource waste.

You shoot one of those cars, local system takes over for physics as its latency sensitive, AI may be shifted locally, animations? Moved from cloud and done locally

Thing is, a lot of pieces in the game environment are not latency sensitive, you wouldn't notice if they were done locally or remotely

But when you interact, local system takes over. When you leave the area or are not directly interacting with these objects, they are then shifted to the cloud.

It's not rocket science.

 

[hachi]

A tower built of a million bricks. That somebody launches a missile into. It's online. Once that missle is launched, the game knows where it's going to impact.

If you were to calculate where all 1 million bricks smashed to, it'd bring a GPU to its knees. If the world instead calculated those figures, you could send the results to all the client players and they could just render the results.

That's a real world application. But it's also kind of meaningless. Because who really cares if those 1 million bricks crumpled according to the laws of physics, or fakes physics. It looks very similar either way.

So I get the usefulness, but come on, it's not this massive thing that the headline implies.

But your example is very useful as a reminder of the ways in which latency is already being hidden in a number of clever ways to make online multiplayer possible. That kind of thing--calculating the trajectory of a weapon from launch, not at impact--is what typically enables us to not notice the lag between opponents. Similar concepts would certainly be used for cloud processing.

 

[Boss Man]

Pretty sure the shit they're talking about with the cloud is actually going to be in the vein of having NFL.com Fantasy Team notifications pop up on the screen.

 

[bishoptl]

dopeyfish, gold medal winner of the 2013 mental gymnastics

Let's throttle back on the personal jabs, shall we? Thanks in advance.

edit: lol at the ads on this page now

 

[PJV3]

Are these servers seperate to the ones scanning kinect data, authenticating disks and checking the games on your hard drive?

It sounds like a disaster waiting to happen,.

 

[cafemomo]

muh cloud

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The specs were by design. The realization is that the functionality that Kinect and MS cloud tech provides are more awe-inspiring to the average consumer than 60 frames per second.

Can the average person tell the difference between 60fps and 30fps? No. Can the average person tell the difference between Kinect and Move capabilities? Yes.

Let Sony build a more expensive box. HOPE and PRAY that Sony builds a more expensive box again like they did with PS3 and Vita and PSP. You want to be able to undercut Sony and keep them bleeding money once again. There is no way to lose to Sony in the long term because this server technology rolls out to every Windows & Xbox powered gaming device including Xbox 360, Windows PCs, Xbox One, Phones, embedded TVs, embedded cable boxes, etc.

Eventually the concept of console generations are over as long as MS keeps the Xbox controller consistent across generations, PCs, and devices. Gaikai vs. the company that built Azure and deep neural networks? Good luck Sony.

Hold onto your 360, because before the end of this decade this technology rolls backwards. If they're feeling goofy enough maybe it even rolls backwards to the OG Xbox. Sony could do the same with PS2/Gaikai but they forgot to build Internet connectivity and HDD into those 140M consoles.

Can i have some of what you are smoking .
What your are talking is years away and for some countries god knows how long .
Some people in thread really crazy on the MS Kool-Aid .

 

[Amir0x]

edit: lol at the ads on this page now

haha holy shit

 

[Durante]

Let Sony build a more expensive box. HOPE and PRAY that Sony builds a more expensive box again like they did with PS3 and Vita and PSP. You want to be able to undercut Sony and keep them bleeding money once again. There is no way to lose to Sony in the long term because this server technology rolls out to every Windows & Xbox powered gaming device including Xbox 360, Windows PCs, Xbox One, Phones, embedded TVs, embedded cable boxes, etc.

Eventually the concept of console generations are over as long as MS keeps the Xbox controller consistent across generations, PCs, and devices. Gaikai vs. the company that built Azure and deep neural networks? Good luck Sony.

As far as I know the live TV stuff demonstrated for Xbox One doesn't require an Xbox Live subscription. So I see many of the 1 billion pay TV subscribers in the world wanting to have that incredible voice and gesture functionality of Xbox One.

Now the Xbox TV (XTV) service is a different matter. That is a paid service where you'll probably find exclusive content like the Halo TV show and exclusive content from Dreamworks and Paramount.

It's funny you say that as this year a cavalcade of top tier mobile games have been pouring into WP8 thanks to the update to Windows kernel.

Just today alone: Tiger Woods Golf, Mass Effect, NBA Jam, and Real Racing 2 were released for Windows Phone 8.

Gameloft has been releasing 12 games in the first half of the year. All Rovio games are being released suddenly and Angry Birds updates are coming out day and date. The Temple Run series has started hitting as well thanks to the porting of Unity to WP8.

Top tier mobile apps and updates are pouring onto the phone this year as well thanks to the Windows 8 kernel and Microsoft's developer muscle. Microsoft isn't chasing volume on phone they are chasing brand names right now like Pandora, Tumblr, Instagram. Same seems to be true for Xbox.

Does a normal person care about Jon Blow's next game? If it was Braid 2 it would be one thing. If MS wants a popular game they will get it.

The deal includes heavy promotion of Microsoft products on all NFL games.

The deal is far more extensive than just the Xbox TV stuff. All NFL coaches are getting Surface tablets and will be seen on the sidelines with them, all NFL computers are being upgraded to new Windows machines, ads for Windows and other products will run during the games.

I am a hardcore gamer.

Oh that's right this forum decided that Call of Duty and most other Xbox shooters in addition to Madden and all EA Sports games are not "hardcore" games anymore. You gave them some juvenile demeaning subgenre classification of "dudebro" games.

Well keep slicing games out of the pie of being "real" games and you'll eventually find yourself in a very small niche.


15 exclusives. Force feedback triggers. 300,000 servers for cloud computing. There was stuff in the 1 hr conference for core gamers to like. I'm not dismissing any issues people have with the console, but don't act like there was nothing for core gamers to like. MS also made it clear before the conference that E3 is meant for big game announcements.

On my Twitter feed I'm seeing stories about how Xbox has fulfilled Steve Job's dream.

They can read your heart rate with it? Holy crap. Imagine what content creators can do with that feedback. Between the facial expression recognition and heart rate monitoring they'll have an idea how every moment of a game or movie or TV show makes you feel. Should help creators build better content. Also the heart rate and muscle tracking is going to be awesome for fitness.

This tech seems to have leaped forward enormously. I <3 Kinect.


Almost forgot the triggers sounds pretty cool too. Can't wait to try it out with racing and FPS games. Good to see haptic feedback getting some love finally.

If you don't think that conference was successful then you are completely out of touch with the mainstream. Next-gen CoD, Madden, NFL content, FIFA exclusives, Steven Spielberg directing Halo, 15 exclusive first party games, 300K servers for new Xbox Live, etc. The only weak/ non-mainstream part of the conference was the Remedy game.

They did a great job selling the device. From a marketing standpoint that was a home run to your average consumer.

Your message has been heard.

(in case anyone cares: it is "the company that built deep neural networks" that finally set me off. Together with the "Windows Kernel" stuff. If there's one thing I hate its throwing around technical terms in a vain attempt to lend credence to marketing bullshit)

 

[oVerde]

 

[Snapshot King]

Because its really fucking hard to elaborate when I'm working

I'd have to go into very fine detail over specific things

I'm telling you that's what can be done and that's really good enough.

I'm not sitting here saying sensational horseshit like "omg it will allow you to render at 60 FPS with 64xAA with 10x the texture resolution and 30x the polygonal budget"

No.

There is finite limits in which to work with (because of latency and bandwidth), that's why it will be based around "experience" ie it won't really make the game you're looking at much better.

Things that are done in cloud and locally alternate. So when you take an action against an AI opponent or they are within "range" to do the same, local system takes over. When I say structural physics, I mean if it is something you can't directly interact with. When I say weather, I am talking about charting where it's raining, wind currents (which the rendering engine can work off). Right now it's uni directional and like a light switch.

When I'm talking physics of everything, imagine you looking down from a tall building at all the cars moving around, the physics of the cars just driving around are a resource waste, the AI that is controlling the cars are a resource waste.

You shoot one of those cars, local system takes over for physics as its latency sensitive, AI may be shifted locally, animations? Moved from cloud and done locally

Thing is, a lot of pieces in the game environment are not latency sensitive, you wouldn't notice if they were done locally or remotely

But when you interact, local system takes over. When you leave the area or are not directly interacting with these objects, they are then shifted to the cloud.

It's not rocket science.

So, basically your point is that cloud processing is great for non-interactive background fluff. Great. Don't have enough of that already.

 

[maquiladora]

Let's throttle back on the personal jabs, shall we? Thanks in advance.

edit: lol at the ads on this page now

Incredible. #dead

 

[Cidd]

Let's throttle back on the personal jabs, shall we? Thanks in advance.

edit: lol at the ads on this page now

lol priceless, oh the irony.

 

[Warm Machine]

Precomputed lighting really would be a great thing to send there. Something like Skyrim, if it could be lightmapped with full GI textures would look pretty amazing. It would also only have to precompute in your general area too accepting certain changes to the environment. This way time of day lighting could be really beautiful and not constricted to relatively crude shader functions.

 

[Impeccable]

Your message has been heard.

I thought it was bad but come on that is almost transparent.

 

[QaaQer]

Because its really fucking hard to elaborate when I'm working

I'd have to go into very fine detail over specific things

I'm telling you that's what can be done and that's really good enough.

I'm not sitting here saying sensational horseshit like "omg it will allow you to render at 60 FPS with 64xAA with 10x the texture resolution and 30x the polygonal budget"

No.

There is finite limits in which to work with (because of latency and bandwidth), that's why it will be based around "experience" ie it won't really make the game you're looking at much better.

Things that are done in cloud and locally alternate. So when you take an action against an AI opponent or they are within "range" to do the same, local system takes over. When I say structural physics, I mean if it is something you can't directly interact with. When I say weather, I am talking about charting where it's raining, wind currents (which the rendering engine can work off). Right now it's uni directional and like a light switch.

When I'm talking physics of everything, imagine you looking down from a tall building at all the cars moving around, the physics of the cars just driving around are a resource waste, the AI that is controlling the cars are a resource waste.

You shoot one of those cars, local system takes over for physics as its latency sensitive, AI may be shifted locally, animations? Moved from cloud and done locally

Thing is, a lot of pieces in the game environment are not latency sensitive, you wouldn't notice if they were done locally or remotely

But when you interact, local system takes over. When you leave the area or are not directly interacting with these objects, they are then shifted to the cloud.

It's not rocket science.

MS guy said it was rocket science. It sure sounds like coding something like this would be a nightmare.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Let's throttle back on the personal jabs, shall we? Thanks in advance.

edit: lol at the ads on this page now

I just got that ad... LOL

 

[Sethos]

When I'm talking physics of everything, imagine you looking down from a tall building at all the cars moving around, the physics of the cars just driving around are a resource waste, the AI that is controlling the cars are a resource waste.

Except in 19/20 cases, those cars are cardboard cutouts just repeating themselves and nobody is the wiser. Would be a waste for someone to start coding something to the cloud to control them.

 

[DopeyFish]

So, basically your point is that cloud processing is great for non-interactive background fluff. Great. Don't have enough of that already.

It may seem trivial but all the stuff the current systems are calculating can THEN be directed at latency sensitive, interactive things. That's another benefit of cloud computation.

But the impact of the cloud processed things cannot be understated.

 

[nemesun]

Has Phil Harrison mentioned anything about cloud producing 4D yet? And if so, do I have to get a second job to access the cloud?

 

[i-Lo]

Your message has been heard.

My mind, it's broken. Perhaps you can release a patch to cure the low fidelity ailment that clouds my mind.

 

[Karma]

I have learned from this thread that Gaikai will never work. Good to know.

 

[tfur]

Naughty Dog in the clouds...

http://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/naughty-dog/

Again, Azure does nothing special that any other cloud computing platform does.

This is all MS BS PR.

 

[maquiladora]

So, basically your point is that cloud processing is great for non-interactive background fluff.

Which somehow makes the Xbox One 4x more powerful than without it.

 

[Guymelef]

Your message has been heard.

Catched...

 

[Risk Breaker]

I can think of lighting... That's one thing that can be calculated in the cloud, even dynamically and it's very latency tolerant.

Are you fucking kidding me? It only needs to be calculated 30 or 60 times per second, yep.

My God this thread.

 

[QaaQer]

I thought it was bad but come on that is almost transparent.

penguins isn't very good at his job.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Some of the posts in this thread are an embarrassment to astroturfers.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Your message has been heard.

If it makes you feel better, I've heard companies pay terrible for message board posters. Even if he's hitting all the talking points, I doubt he's making minimum wage. It's considered crowd sourcing and is done on a contract basis.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

One thing I will say, is Microsoft will use these servers to get a leg up in online gaming. The benefits of the servers lie in low latency advantage, less computational. What will happen is they'll just push bigger versions of online modes, more players in maps, bigger maps, less lag etc etc that are problematic on P2P systems.

So Microsoft has just invented dedicated servers?

Seriously? That's your line?

 

[Snapshot King]

It may seem trivial but all the stuff the current systems are calculating can THEN be directed at latency sensitive, interactive things. That's another benefit of cloud computation.

But the impact of the cloud processed things cannot be understated.

Oh, boy does it.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

I wonder what it is like to be in that head of yours.

It's in the design documents/roadmap from 2010 that leaked on this forum. Maybe go back and look at their plans and realize they're sticking pretty close to that plan from 3 years ago; at least so far.

Pretty epic document dump there.

 

[J-Rzez]

It's not rocket science.

It isn't? Because MS told us in their conference it was.

 

[DopeyFish]

Oh, boy does it.

I am talking about to you. In reality it has huge benefits.

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

Xbox One = Xbox 360 X 10
Xbox One + Cloud = Super Saiyan God level

 

[Red Blaster]

this penguin polarbear guy reminds me of countzeroinot or whatever from ~2007