Raise the flame shield: Your "controversial" gaming opinion.
- Thread starter Laughing Banana
- Start date
The Gameplay in XIII was amazing, and while the writting is shit, the majority of writting in all of the FF games is largely garbage.
Vaan really does go from Aladdin street rat to pimp slapping the shit out of Balthier, it's amazing to watch his change from the start of XII to the end of A2.
I found Halo 2/3/ODST to be largely crap and had fun with Reach and I really enjoyed the Prometheans in 4, and really wish they had dropped the Covenant completely as they are the worst part of the game.
Shattered Memories has an amazing story. Not only that, I really do love the fact that the game has no combat and I really do like it when Devs try stuff like the light world and have no enemies as at all. That and Ice>Fog.
I love Blaz, and the majority of the cast. Tsubaki being my number 1 and I find them much more enjoyable then the cast of Guilty Gear.
However I will say Holy Order Sol is WTFAMAZING.
Not my favorite (that goes to Fusion) but at least when it comes to gameplay it's easily my number 2.
He is such an amazing game designer and I can't wait for the next Metroid game from him. Just hopefully this time he tells whoever tries to get it to play in 3D to fuck off.
Sandy Nipples
Banned
30fps isn't the benchmark, it's horrible and yes you can tell the difference between 30 and 60 fucking frames per second God dammit you pleb! A whole generation of gamers were raised on sub par standardized console hardware, it's not locked at 30fps to make it look awesome, its running at 30fps because the hardware is too weak to do 60! Call of Duty is a Billion Dollar franchise thanks to 60 frames per second!
crazyjah2003
Member
The Adventure of Van Helsing is now the best loot game on the market.
RedRedSuit
Member
But it isn't. At its peak it is amazing -- namely the battle system, which you only REALLY get to explore in the post-game/Pulse. But for the vast majority of the game (at the very least 50% of the typical playthrough) the gameplay is just pressing X.
And that's ignoring the parts of the gameplay other than the battle system... namely that there are none. It's all about running down a corridor.
Nah. FF series has featured some touching and inventive stories. This was just kind of a mess at best.
Maybe on paper that is true, but he lacks a personality, and it's almost impossible to identify with him.
I say this as a big fan of XII. I don't think Vaan hurt that game, which seems to be the popular opinion (OMG VAAN SUX), but he certainly didn't add to it.
Halo 2 largely crap -- more or less agree. That game did not come together.
Halo 3 largely crap -- I would say it's OK.
Halo 3: ODST largely crap -- more or less agree. Well, not crap but it's not good.
Halo: CE, however, while it may feature some crap parts is overall quite a good game.
Agree on 4 and Reach, though I still enjoy Covenant as some of the best enemies in action games.
RedRedSuit
Member
30 fps isn't "horrible." It's fine and well worth the increased visual quality you can get from dropping 60fps... in most genres and gameplay times (certainly not all).
However anyone claiming 30 fps and 60 fps are visually indistinguishable is smoking crack.
Some people genuinely cannot tell the difference. Just because you can doesn't mean everyone can. And there are also others who can tell a difference, but it just isn't an important factor for them.
If developers wanted, they could make 30fps games run at 60fps, but they choose not to because they'd rather go for the wow-factor of more complexity elsewhere. It's running at 30fps because the hardware is weak AND they want to make it look better.
You got me. I am now butt-flustered mad.
Well we will have to disagree about FF. There is no story outside of Shuyin and Lynn, or Ultimecia's and Kuja's backstories that are remotely touching.
Also I can't agree on Vaan. I don't see why someone can't feel for him. Much easier then Ashe who was awful.
Also disagree'd about XIII's battlesystem. So to each their own.
Combat Evolved was okay/good. Several issues, but easily better then 2/3/ODST.
It's the best one I've played since Diablo II, at least.
I think cloud gaming (and cloud computing in general) is the future and don't mind the idea of having a completely streaming console. I think we're a long ways from that though and given internet availability and bandwidth restrictions I wouldn't want it right now since it would alienate a large portion of the population.
Dion Blaster
Member
SNES era 2D platformers are just better than today's. Not "for their time" but straight up more well made and with more fun in the design. The only thing they've improved is graphical fidelity. And most of the best ones like Yoshi's Island, Sonic 2, Mario 3, Kirby Super Star, DKC 2, I have played for the first time within the past year or two so there is no nostalgia attached.
Not that there aren't great ones now thanks to the recent 2D renaissance (NSMBW, DKCR, Rayman, LBP, Braid, Cave Story, Meat Boy, etc.) but it seems more than any other genre that technology really hasn't been able to give modern 2D games a noticeable advantage, and 90's game makers simply outperformed modern devs at creating great games in the genre.
Not that there aren't great ones now thanks to the recent 2D renaissance (NSMBW, DKCR, Rayman, LBP, Braid, Cave Story, Meat Boy, etc.) but it seems more than any other genre that technology really hasn't been able to give modern 2D games a noticeable advantage, and 90's game makers simply outperformed modern devs at creating great games in the genre.
Sandy Nipples
Banned
See comment above yours.
Also, when it runs at 30fps it looks crap, regardless how much bullshot whoring is done by Technical Directors.
You want to know why SSX is almost dead now? 30fps, I think the line was crossed when they started farting out racing games locked at 30fps.
RedRedSuit
Member
I guess this this is the only part I can't fathom and chalk up to "agree to disagree." Wouldn't you agree that the first 20-30 hours of that game can be easily overcome by pressing X for 98% of the fights? It just seems factually true. There's a level cap system too, so there's no experimentation in the leveling system for a LONG time into the game.
Though it is nice to see some actual discussion in this thread instead of just hyperbolic insults of what people like.
Edwards_Omatic
Member
I wouldn't at all say that's a controversial opinion, I completely agree.
Squirrel Killer
Member
Games that graphically "push the limits of the system" look worse than games that work within the system's designed boundaries. Compare Pitfall! to Pac-Man on the Atari 2600, Super Mario Bros. to Castlevania III on the NES, Wipeout to Gran Turismo 2 on PS1.
iOS is one of the top five gaming platforms of all time. It got off to a rocky start with a bunch of throwaway hot garbage, and touch controls can be wonky if programmers don't appropriately account for it, but the games are always at hand (great for asynch play,) and there's great diversity of games and genres. As a bonus, devs don't feel the need as much to pump in "200 hours of gameplay (199 of which will feel like 1999.)"
The Smash Brothers franchise are fighting games. What else would they be?
Subscriptions/DLC/IAP/DRM risks the status of games as art. Art can be appreciated by future generations (performance based art excluded of course,) the "art" of WoW dies when Blizzards powers down the last server.
iOS is one of the top five gaming platforms of all time. It got off to a rocky start with a bunch of throwaway hot garbage, and touch controls can be wonky if programmers don't appropriately account for it, but the games are always at hand (great for asynch play,) and there's great diversity of games and genres. As a bonus, devs don't feel the need as much to pump in "200 hours of gameplay (199 of which will feel like 1999.)"
The Smash Brothers franchise are fighting games. What else would they be?
Subscriptions/DLC/IAP/DRM risks the status of games as art. Art can be appreciated by future generations (performance based art excluded of course,) the "art" of WoW dies when Blizzards powers down the last server.
Can you get by largely with Autobattle? Sure you can.
However the same can be said you can get by the first 20 hours in FF VIII, FFIX, and X by using the pretty much exactly what is handed to you. Pressing X to select Attack/Cure/1 is no different to me then pressing Autobattle.
However the star system and my desire to always hit lvl 5 (and never use the shitty summons) kept me going and made it so using the standard Attacker/Ravager/Medic trifecta autobattle wasn't an option for me.
So long as you don't farm the moment the chapter starts I found it much easier to make sure the system stayed fresh by pushing for 5 stars. Usually the game would do basic stuff where as using the select and choosing stuff like Ruinaga to force enemies in the air before break and then going to town with AoE's and Blitzs (which I had to select because the game almost never Auto's these) made the game much more fun.
That is, in fact, a controversial opinion.
RedRedSuit
Member
Well, first of all VIII is not great either and fairly controversial. Same with X.
However I don't think it's remotely accurate to say those games are isomorphic to XIII in terms of sheer just-press-X-ness. X is probably closest, due to its similar corridor nature, but it was significantly more challenging through the first half of the game. XIII's gambits (fuck, I forget what they were called in XIII) combined with the relentless corridors made it an entirely linear, monotonous game with almost no breaks. 7, 8, 9 threw in more interesting dungeons and bosses, plus a world map; 12 made the world more dangerous and required more fiddling to make the gambits work. XIII was just not engaging until the post-game and a few bosses.
Interesting. That's more of a self-imposed system though. Not sure I agree that's generally valid... but I'll give you that that's more of an "agree to disagree" situation. I think for me that would be kind of an empty meta-game that's not sufficiently rewarded by the rest of the game to bother with it.
To me VIII's system is second only to X-2 when it comes to battle.
VIII's junction system is amazingly flexible, and saying the focusing on the Star system, which is something the game has isn't valid, would render the majority of complaints such as how easy it is to break VIII's equally invalid.
As it stands you aren't going to break VIII unlesss you really try for the majority of the game. It gives you equal to what you put into it. Lastly I don't think linearity is a bad thing in video games. Having a city or whatever FF fans want is nothing more then a waste of time to me anyway. I can and do accept and enjoy both styles of games.
As for the name, it Paradigms I believe. I still call them Optima's from the Japanese version just as I still call XII's limits Myst Knacks.
Thickstone
Member
I found the claim that the battle system only shines during post-game to be a bit exaggerated tbh. Yeah, there are very easy enemies, but some encounters can be tough if you don't have the right tactic. Plus, there are some bosses that require preparation and thinking, namely Eidolons, Barthandalus Ver. 1 amd 2, Ch 5 boss and various others.
To me, it was easily the most challenging FF if we consider the main story only and part of it was the level cap because you couldn't outrule the difficulty via grindig.That's something I really appreciate about the design. It just wasn't punishing at all since you could simply restart the battle which may give some people the impression that the main game ist a cakewalk, but I really think it's not in many instances.
FF XIII-2 made some nice improvements, but that game was way too easy, sadly.
Plus, the battles were pure beauty visually and made me feel very engaged although control over the party was very restricted. Perhaps thats subjective, but I have more fun watching dynamic animations and attack patterns rather than 3 people standing in a line...I would say that the visual presentation adds a lot to the battles.
RedRedSuit
Member
I will cop to that statement being a bit exaggerated. There are definitely challenging fights in the last 1/3 of the game and certainly in that final dungeon. The game DID eventually become fairly enjoyable to play even before the post-game. That's why it's a B or B- game as opposed to a straight up critical failure.
However the statement that during the vast majority of AT LEAST the first 15 hours, and probably more like 25-30 hours, the battle system is 99% unused due to being easy is accurate. There is no equivalent to that kind of stifling pointlessness in any other FF game. Not even the glorified corridor that is X.
Agreed on that -- I found VII's battles to be much more fun to watch than X's, because of the active camera movement of the former vs. the "3 people standing in a line" of X.
Obviously, however, than can only take one so far.
The fact that you can doesn't mean i would want to.
FFXIII(-2), gameplay wise, is terrific, proven you earn your difficulty.
Yup, you can screw up the game in a manner that makes it significantly less fun.
Somehow, i'm completely okay with this.
Actually, i even like the idea of having to go considerable lengths to obtain a proper experience.
RedRedSuit
Member
It's the path of least resistance by far.
Ideally a game should steer you in a way that makes the game enjoyable and fulfills the game's potential. XIII definitely did not do that. It's one of the basic game design tenets completely ignored by XIII. What's frustrating is that Pulse + those quests show how utterly brilliant XIII's system can be. Tactical, orchestrated battles of attrition that wax and wane and leave the boring details to the CPU... it's beautiful... but underused by most of the main game.
Yuck.
Well, at least it's an explanation that makes sense for you as opposed to coming out of nowhere.
Thickstone
Member
I think the last part of your post is not entirely true as almost every FF has these issues. Think of how 7 does not force you to properly think about allocating materia, how magic, summons and especially buffs/debuffs are almost a non-issue in former FFs (something that XIII got right imo) and how grinding makes it easy to bypass all the neat systems they implemented. I always felt that XIII gives you very little options in relation to the other games, but at least you have to make use of them in order to play effectively.
Well, I guess that's enough from me before derailing the thread completely
Buffington
Neo Member
I don't think FF9 is anywhere near as good as 7 or 8. Every single FF game since (except 12 and Tactics) has been terrible.
Storm Chamber
Banned
Kingdom Hearts is an awful series.
Final Fantasy 12 and 13 were good games.
Bayonetta is the best game of this generation.
Final Fantasy 12 and 13 were good games.
Bayonetta is the best game of this generation.
RedRedSuit
Member
I am sure if that were the version released originally, the backlash would have been like 10% of what it was. Maybe even less.
It's impossible to erase the original ending from one's memory, Extended Cut or not. Not to be over-dramatic, but that ending made me feel like shit for like a week... to the point where I had to seek out support groups on the Internet.
Nightstick11
Banned
Microsoft was and is the greatest existential threat to this industry since 2001.
Blizzard is perfect.
EA is the devil incarnate and I will never, ever forgive them for murdering Westwood.
Dudebro gamers are indistinguishable as casuals from Wii Sports types.
Sega died because they made crappy games and crappy hardware.
Intelligent Systems develops better games than EAD.
Sony's first-party franchises have no soul
3-D Mario and 2-D Mario are both snooze-fests and cannot hold my interest longer than 15 minutes
StarFox is over-rated
F-Zero is over-rated
Blizzard is perfect.
EA is the devil incarnate and I will never, ever forgive them for murdering Westwood.
Dudebro gamers are indistinguishable as casuals from Wii Sports types.
Sega died because they made crappy games and crappy hardware.
Intelligent Systems develops better games than EAD.
Sony's first-party franchises have no soul
3-D Mario and 2-D Mario are both snooze-fests and cannot hold my interest longer than 15 minutes
StarFox is over-rated
F-Zero is over-rated
I LOVE FF9, and FF7 a little less. I consider FF8 hot garbage with the Junction system - you NEED a FAQ to play that game and not run into a wall later on. FFX, FFXII, and FFXIII are all great - love the graphics
KH is awesome! Whoever said they hate it, I just cannot see it. I actually played through some of the control issues in the original KH to see the ending. KH2 is excellent as well.
I'm almost more excited for Square's remakes like KH 1.5HD and FFX-HD than a lot of newer games.
What the hell? I can understand people not liking Junction (I disagree with a passion) and Draw (totally agreed), but by in no way is a Faq needed for anything in VIII aside from a very few specific side quests.
Jake Tower
Banned
KeeSomething
Banned
Is that a controversial? Either way, I completely agree.
NightDriver
Member
Dual analog controller > Kb+M
XBOX > GCN > PS2
"All Ghillied-Up" (COD: MW) is the worst level in FPS history. It exemplifies everything wrong in modern FPS design.
The extended cut made the ending to ME3 even worse.
Bioshock has a lousy story.
WRPGS > JRPGS -- Japanese aesthetics and narrative sensibilities are execrable.
Black is a great game.
Metroid Prime should have been dual analog.
"The Library" (Halo) was outstanding.
The RPG elements in Mass Effect 1 were terrible, and nothing was lost when they were scraped in the sequel.
Halo 2 is the best Halo.
The Timesplitters games are mediocre, at best.
The Warriors is the only good Rockstar game.
Uncharted 1 barely qualifies as a game.
The PS1 and N64 have aged terribly, worse than any other consoles.
Fallout 1 is crap.
As far as FPS's on the PS2 go, Killzone was pretty good.
Sequelitis is the REAL sickness in this industry.
XBOX > GCN > PS2
"All Ghillied-Up" (COD: MW) is the worst level in FPS history. It exemplifies everything wrong in modern FPS design.
The extended cut made the ending to ME3 even worse.
Bioshock has a lousy story.
WRPGS > JRPGS -- Japanese aesthetics and narrative sensibilities are execrable.
Black is a great game.
Metroid Prime should have been dual analog.
"The Library" (Halo) was outstanding.
The RPG elements in Mass Effect 1 were terrible, and nothing was lost when they were scraped in the sequel.
Halo 2 is the best Halo.
The Timesplitters games are mediocre, at best.
The Warriors is the only good Rockstar game.
Uncharted 1 barely qualifies as a game.
The PS1 and N64 have aged terribly, worse than any other consoles.
Fallout 1 is crap.
As far as FPS's on the PS2 go, Killzone was pretty good.
Sequelitis is the REAL sickness in this industry.
The Junction System can be modified at ANYTIME in the game though, and the J equips are on so many GF it's impossible to not have the Junctions you need even if you skip every single missable GF.
Even if you skipped everything all you need is 10 battles or less with Quez to get the Card Mod and you can even skip the battles if you hate them and be able to reset up every character in a combat free area.
Lets say you got all the way to lvl 100 and had the enemies be as strong as they can. You can go into a simple field and farm some enemies and between Quez, Shiva, and Ifirit be setup with Aga level magic with in an hour and be more then powerful enough to take out everything aside from Ultima and Omega weapon.
MisterSamMan
Member
As a child, I thought Super Mario 64 was okay. As an adult, I don't even want to touch that game. It's bad.
That being said, I've always thought Super Mario Sunshine was a far superior game and still is incredibly amazing.
Also after recently playing through Hitman 1, some of 2, and most of the levels that people really love from Blood Money. They're all terribly boring games. Maybe it's because I have no nostalgia for them, but they were not fun.
Also Oblivion is better than Skyrim. After 200 hours of Skyrim, I find it hard to enjoy myself while running around in that world. After 400+ hours of Oblivion, I still find it interesting and fun to run around to do stuff.
(Feels good to say this. Thanks OP!)
That being said, I've always thought Super Mario Sunshine was a far superior game and still is incredibly amazing.
Also after recently playing through Hitman 1, some of 2, and most of the levels that people really love from Blood Money. They're all terribly boring games. Maybe it's because I have no nostalgia for them, but they were not fun.
Also Oblivion is better than Skyrim. After 200 hours of Skyrim, I find it hard to enjoy myself while running around in that world. After 400+ hours of Oblivion, I still find it interesting and fun to run around to do stuff.
(Feels good to say this. Thanks OP!)
- Gaming would get REALLY interesting for me if somehow, magically all developers developed nothing but 3DS and Vita games. For one we'd get rid of tech-porn, eye-candy, film-wannabe games and developers would be forced to make fun games. Yes, games that are fun to play, go figure!
- I don't mind sequels that pretty much recycle the assets of older games. I don't want to live in a world where Street Fighter 2 Turbo or Super Mario Galaxy 2 didn't happen because "OMG barely a sequel! Expansion pack!", etc.
- I don't mind sequels that pretty much recycle the assets of older games. I don't want to live in a world where Street Fighter 2 Turbo or Super Mario Galaxy 2 didn't happen because "OMG barely a sequel! Expansion pack!", etc.
I can get with this.
I understand wanting new stuff, I do so as well. However if they can manage super high quality like SMG2, then I don't see what the big deal is with getting yet another amazing game on a shorter dev cycle.
RedRedSuit
Member
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
While people complain about typical tropes and themes in fantasy JRPGs, fantasy WRPGs are no better and suffer from the same thing, especially "Tolkein-ism". It is very rare to find a WRPG that doesn't include an Orc race (most boring fantasy race ever), dwarves, high elves and the like, for example.
Dude are you against technology or something? Everyone knows the best way to advance video games as a medium is to bloat budgets to an unsustainable degree so we can have individually rendered blades of grass and hair physics.
RedRedSuit
Member
Very true; Western tropes are just more... you know... Western... so we (for some definition of "we") like them instead of subconsciously (?) viewing them as odd and thus dumb.