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[viveks86]

It's no different than people criticizing Sony for their GAAS slop. No one says it doesn't have the right to exist.

It's literally the direction this could go. International press is picking up on it already. My criticism isn't directed towards you or anyone on GAF. We should all absolutely debate it and there are viewpoints from all sides worth processing. But escalation beyond that seems uncalled for. As long as this stays at the level of GAAS slop criticism, I have no complaints.

Wake me up when Microsoft starts funding incest games or Visa starts pressuring Steam to stop selling woke games. These things are not comparable.

Obviously they won't and the two games are not comparable. I'm comparing them to just express how I feel about the topic of driving games to cancellation purely based on subject matter. There should generally be no subject matter that doesn't have a right to exist. This isn't calling for a genocide or targeted assault/murder of real people to be worthy of such a discussion. Despite being a feminist, if I don't want a freaking rape game to be banned, I wouldn't want the other. And so I'm pre-emptively voicing that point of view. If you aren't calling for this game to be cancelled (as you have suggested in bold), then we have no disagreement. I don't believe you are speaking for everyone in this thread through. There clearly are a few... but quoting them would just call for a level of engagement that hurts my brain.

 

[Clear]

My favourite bit is the studio blurb where they lay out their "socially conscious" mission and the diversity credentials of the team, and how they hope to "drive real-world positive change".

Laughably hubristic stuff, and staggeringly unrealistic as an attainable goal because -as they note- with interactive entertainment being the world's biggest marketplace, their chances of making *any* sort of impact is fucking minute, just based on the competition for attention.

Having "good" values is not a selling point in its own right!

If they'd just be honest and afmit that they are just a bunch of activists who are being indulged to propagandize a certain socio-political outlook I actually wouldn't bother to comment.

We all know exactly what we're dealing with!

 

[Wilhelm_85]

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breath…

Please stop with this nonsense. Emma Lazarus's poem does not represent the will of the American people or official American government policy.

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

MS and Sony tryna out woke each other lol

 

[The Mad Draklor]

They're absolutely entitled to make it. And I am entitled not to spend any money on it.

Freedom of speech is needed for speech you don't like, not what you do. That way in the future when you want to say, write or make something unpopular you'll be able to.
Saying "puppy dogs are lovely" isn't going to stir any debate. Saying "I like my country the way it is" certainly will. What side you fall on in that debate is irrelevant. The fact that you can have the debate is what matters.

What nobody is entitled to is to be sheltered from the criticism that comes. You put it out there, don't cry foul when people push back afterwards.

A lot of times, they don't just cry foul, but go as far as to conflate mockery with "outrage" in an attempt to poison the well of the opposition.

 

[calico]

 

[viveks86]

If they'd just be honest and afmit that they are just a bunch of activists who are being indulged to propagandize a certain socio-political outlook

This may or may not be true anymore. Bear in mind that so many people have started advertising their race and other identities like it's some sort of currency that demands recognition that it has become hard to tell the difference between an activist and an opportunist. Half of them don't actually have a cause and don't give a shit. They just want to make money the easiest way possible.

Being "bipoc" myself, I hate that fucking label. My wife is an artist and constantly gets the opportunity to declare her race to avail special quotas reserved for "bipoc" at art events. We have taken a pledge never to make use of them. It's ridiculous to be doing favors to people who don't need any. I'm sure someone out there is really struggling and needs a bump, but the actual organizers don't care one way or the other as long they can fill the quota. Bipoc this and intersectional that… ugh

 

[Fafalada]

Propaganda isn't art. Art exists to speak to and/or move the human soul. Propaganda is soulless horseshit that exists to serve a political agenda. Propaganda has no artistic value at all. It's frankly fucking laughable to suggest otherwise.

We may want things to be this black&white but various (political)actors through human history have (and still do today) often contracted renowned artists to create propaganda materials for them.
Now you can pretend the creators only did things for a paycheck and put 0 of their ability into such products - but that's not really how this usually works.

And what other poster said about the less overt forms of it - Hollywood output has mostly been a reflection of the local soci-political lens - ie. its output tends to come across as little more than advertisement of US (main audience being citizens) regardless of which decade we look at. Admittedly you can argue how much of Hollywood output can be classified as art but I'm not going there.

 

[delirium trigger]

I'm assuming we won't be taking them to a port of entry.

 

[Clear]

This may or may not be true anymore. Bear in mind that so many people have started advertising their race and other identities like it's some sort of currency that demands recognition that it has become hard to tell the difference between an activist and an opportunist. Half of them don't actually have a cause and don't give a shit. They just want to make money the easiest way possible.

Being "bipoc" myself, I hate that fucking label. My wife's an artist and constantly gets the opportunity to declare her race to avail special quotas reserved for "bipoc" at art events. We have taken a pledge never to make use of them. It's ridiculous to be doing favors to people who don't need any. I'm sure someone out there is really struggling and needs a bump, but the actual organizers don't care one way or the other as long they can fill the quota. Bipoc this and intersectional that… ugh

That's fair, but lets be charitable and take at face value that's what their beliefs and intentions are.

Also, its a terrible, terrible grift! So they get funding for a few years... then what ?

You need sales for sustainability, and a shitty looking unity game saddled to a divisive political message isn't going to sell.

 

[Signalis]

Official trailer





^ seems the "Gamescom Congress 2025" video was set to private after he reacted to it. I searched and couldn't find it.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Maybe. Unless you are an Indian or work in certain types of service, then you're fine.

 

[Signalis]

Maybe. Unless you are an Indian or work in certain types of service, then you're fine.

Helo deer, i make pc nice, ples clik link belouw an send pusy pic to continyou

 

[viveks86]

That's fair, but lets be charitable and take at face value that's what their beliefs and intentions are.

Also, its a terrible, terrible grift! So they get funding for a few years... then what ?

You need sales for sustainability, and a shitty looking unity game saddled to a divisive political message isn't going to sell.

Agreed! And like all grifts, it will eventually end if that's the case. Bad ideas and incompetence rarely sustain. And if it's a not a grift and there is genuine heart and expression, the market will respond... It's just hard to tell any difference if the temperature is raised too high.

 

[Spukc]

Don't you fucking love it when your favorite medium is trying to tell you
what to do?
What to think?
What to say?
How to act?

Fuck you i don't do what you tell me.

 

[Tajaz2426]

Do we win when the kids and women get dropped off into their sex trade schools? Or the gritty assaults that take place against the women and little girls?

We can drop the ugly ones in the sweat shops to work off that money for an extra ending credit scene.

The rest we will drop onto pot farms.

 

[FullMetalx117]

day 1, make the ice retards the bad guys in this game lol

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Geez... why is MS so snowflake left?

 

[Toons]

If you think propaganda is art then you're probably enslaved to ideology and you clearly have no taste.

Propaganda isn't art. Art exists to speak to and/or move the human soul. Propaganda is soulless horseshit that exists to serve a political agenda. Propaganda has no artistic value at all. It's frankly fucking laughable to suggest otherwise.

Laughable take. Propaganda can absorbent be art, many famous works of art we know were designed and created as propaganda.

Captain america debuted as propaganda. Tbose commissioned religious paintings of the Renaissance were often propaganda. Wartime art was propaganda.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I mean, I'd rather they just fantasize about it via a video game and know it's something they can't do . . . kinda like have sex with a bear.

 

[Toons]

I mean, I'd rather they just fantasize about it via a video game and know it's something they can't do . . . kinda like have sex with a bear.

You can have sex with a bear if you're brave enough

Spoiler: .

/s

 

[VGA-Games]

That's why I personally prefer Video Games from Nintendo.

Video Games from Nintendo are about Fun and not political Agendas!

 

[PeteBull]

Geez... why is MS so snowflake left?

Something weird happened to their CEO's, we got solid proof from 2021, so close to 4 years of total brainrot:

Altho on other hand who really knows, it might have already started even earlier if we take into account what xbox/gaming division did for well over a decade and how they ruined perfectly fine business from back in x360 times
Personally i think they either all sold their souls to satan or collectively caught derangement syndrome or every1 in the company got told to watch idiocracy movie and keep behaving like that

 

[Dacvak]

"Wonder what this thread is like- Oh."

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Something weird happened to their CEO's, we got solid proof from 2021, so close to 4 years of total brainrot:

Altho on other hand who really knows, it might have already started even earlier if we take into account what xbox/gaming division did for well over a decade and how they ruined perfectly fine business from back in x360 times
Personally i think they either all sold their souls to satan or collectively caught derangement syndrome or every1 in the company got told to watch idiocracy movie and keep behaving like that

MSNBC is the worst form of propaganda we've ever seen in the US, and that's saying a lot. I fucking hate seeing shit like this being rammed down our throats in gaming. Fuck this shit.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

 

[Spukc]

Something weird happened to their CEO's, we got solid proof from 2021, so close to 4 years of total brainrot:

Altho on other hand who really knows, it might have already started even earlier if we take into account what xbox/gaming division did for well over a decade and how they ruined perfectly fine business from back in x360 times
Personally i think they either all sold their souls to satan or collectively caught derangement syndrome or every1 in the company got told to watch idiocracy movie and keep behaving like that

What in the fuck that video

 

[The Mad Draklor]

So... where should be put the over/under for this "game's" peak CCU?

1/10 of a Concord? 1/8 of a Concord?

 

[viveks86]

Laughable take. Propaganda can absorbent be art, many famous works of art we know were designed and created as propaganda.

Captain america debuted as propaganda. Tbose commissioned religious paintings of the Renaissance were often propaganda. Wartime art was propaganda.

Agreed. I think we get carried away by attaching value to the definition of art itself. All expression through skill or imagination is art. Even advertisements are art. What value you attach to it is highly subjective and time bound. Pornography in the form of sculptures from hundreds of years ago is now art. Look at a poster printed in the 50s selling cigarettes and the creativity that went into it may blow your mind. Harmful and predatory, yes. But art nonetheless. So either they are all art and have always been so, or we are just arbitrarily playing with words.

 

[A.Romero]

Why are you talking about censorship?

Who is trying to censor anything? The way some of you guys jump to absurd conclusions when trying to debate is fucking wild.

I questioned why people get offended by a game like this and you replied that it was leftist propaganda and that I had to be kidding for this to exist (unless you meant propaganda as a compliment and you actually meant that this games should exist). I said lots of pieces of media are propaganda and nobody cared. You questioned how war movies were propaganda and I gave you some examples. I know that because you grew up within that culture it's more difficult to see something like Black Hawk Down for what it is but it doesn't mean that it doesn't push an agenda, it's just that it is an agenda that you are OK with (and that's fine!).

There is a clear sentiment in this thread this game shouldn't exist, including even posts like "Perfect Dark died for this?" or "where is visa when you need them?". If that's not your case and your comments about propaganda were interpreted wrong or if you see the parallel with other forms of media and you can accept that media like this can (and even should) exist, then you are OK there is no argument to be had. I replied because you engaged with me and I try to answer to anyone that engages with me. That's the point of the forum, right?

Pushing against shit like this is just as stupid as people pushing to remove boobs from games. Both positions are idiotic and no one that consideres gaming as accomplished media or even art should be complaining for any game to exist. If anything, as I said in my first post and my first reply to you, skip it and play whatever suits your taste.

Nobody cared about this game until an influencer picked it up and use it to fue clicks on a very idiotic culture war. I don't care about the culture war but I do care about gaming and there is no world where gaming is better with less games, specially considering that we don't HAVE to play absolutely everything that comes out and, even more important, we don't have to agree with whatever the creators want to say.

And just so we are clear: I'm Mexican and I've been an inmigrant (legally in Canada for several years). Nothing in my life is similar to what the game seems to depict nor I think they seem to be doing a good work reflecting the reality behind illegal immigration. I have zero love for this product and most likely won't even play it (even if it's on gamepass) but having an industry where all kinds of games can be published is key for the future of this medium, even if a lot of people can't see it now. I don't even care if they are offensive about it.

 

[Germuso]

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I questioned why people get offended by a game like this and you replied that it was leftist propaganda and that I had to be kidding for this to exist (unless you meant propaganda as a compliment and you actually meant that this games should exist). I said lots of pieces of media are propaganda and nobody cared. You questioned how war movies were propaganda and I gave you some examples. I know that because you grew up within that culture it's more difficult to see something like Black Hawk Down for what it is but it doesn't mean that it doesn't push an agenda, it's just that it is an agenda that you are OK with (and that's fine!).

The movie you mentioned is, first and foremost, a movie. Of course, it has a political message, because its theme is WAR, so it must have an ideological message, it's inherent to the topic. Still, the production has an artistic value, regardless of its message.

Most works of fiction have some kind of messaging too. Ones more obvious than others. The problem here is not the message but the product itself. This is NOT a videogame. This turd never intended to be a videogame with a target audience. The people behind it are not creators, let alone artists. They are parasites who have used public funding to pollute the gaming scene with this shit. In their website you won't find a single word about the game, only the "message" and their "meta" intentions.

Therefore, this thing should not exist. Not because of its message (everything legal should be allowed) but because this is a scam, a slop passed off as a videogame. The same as in literature, where many AI slop novels get public funding just because of their message, those are dishonest products made by dishonest people.

Fuck these pretenders and everyone who invested in them.

 

[Killer8]

Why is the Mexican Olympic team so bad?

Because everyone who could run, jump and swim already made it to the USA.

 

[Sophist]

Another asmongold thread... this dude has too much power.

 

[Boo Who?]

 

[Aenima]

Untill this game comes out here's a good alternative.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

I questioned why people get offended by a game like this and you replied that it was leftist propaganda and that I had to be kidding for this to exist (unless you meant propaganda as a compliment and you actually meant that this games should exist). I said lots of pieces of media are propaganda and nobody cared. You questioned how war movies were propaganda and I gave you some examples. I know that because you grew up within that culture it's more difficult to see something like Black Hawk Down for what it is but it doesn't mean that it doesn't push an agenda, it's just that it is an agenda that you are OK with (and that's fine!).

There is a clear sentiment in this thread this game shouldn't exist, including even posts like "Perfect Dark died for this?" or "where is visa when you need them?". If that's not your case and your comments about propaganda were interpreted wrong or if you see the parallel with other forms of media and you can accept that media like this can (and even should) exist, then you are OK there is no argument to be had. I replied because you engaged with me and I try to answer to anyone that engages with me. That's the point of the forum, right?

Pushing against shit like this is just as stupid as people pushing to remove boobs from games. Both positions are idiotic and no one that consideres gaming as accomplished media or even art should be complaining for any game to exist. If anything, as I said in my first post and my first reply to you, skip it and play whatever suits your taste.

Nobody cared about this game until an influencer picked it up and use it to fue clicks on a very idiotic culture war. I don't care about the culture war but I do care about gaming and there is no world where gaming is better with less games, specially considering that we don't HAVE to play absolutely everything that comes out and, even more important, we don't have to agree with whatever the creators want to say.

And just so we are clear: I'm Mexican and I've been an inmigrant (legally in Canada for several years). Nothing in my life is similar to what the game seems to depict nor I think they seem to be doing a good work reflecting the reality behind illegal immigration. I have zero love for this product and most likely won't even play it (even if it's on gamepass) but having an industry where all kinds of games can be published is key for the future of this medium, even if a lot of people can't see it now. I don't even care if they are offensive about it.

Questioning why something exists is not the same thing as censorship.

Nobody here is campaigning to boycott it or emailing the publisher trying tp get the project shut down.

Categorizing criticism as censorship is just strawmanning.

 

[Walliwallipaloo]

Microsoft cancels every serious game, and then funds this laughable dreck. I love those enwreathed journo awards. So indie. Much award.

On-message shlock. Embarrassing and pitiful.

 

[A.Romero]

The movie you mentioned is, first and foremost, a movie. Of course, it has a political message, because its theme is WAR, so it must have an ideological message, it's inherent to the topic. Still, the production has an artistic value, regardless of its message.

Most works of fiction have some kind of messaging too. Ones more obvious than others. The problem here is not the message but the product itself. This is NOT a videogame. This turd never intended to be a videogame with a target audience. The people behind it are not creators, let alone artists. They are parasites who have used public funding to pollute the gaming scene with this shit. In their website you won't find a single word about the game, only the "message" and their "meta" intentions.

Therefore, this thing should not exist. Not because of its message (everything legal should be allowed) but because this is a scam, a slop passed off as a videogame. The same as in literature, where many AI slop novels get public funding just because of their message, those are dishonest products made by dishonest people.

Fuck these pretenders and everyone who invested in them.

Ok, so if I understood correctly the problem is not the message but the medium and the way the game obtained funding?

Movies are OK despite that particular movie BHD had public resources invested in the making (including the participation of 100 soldiers) so that's acceptable because you agree with the message (keep in mind many people do not agree with that particular movie and the way it depicted the conflict).

What makes a game different from a movie? What do you mean it's not a video game? If it's not, what is it? a Digital movie? In that case it would be OK by your own criteria, right?

Does this game use public funding or the participation of any government agency (as to be using public funding indirectly like the movie)?

It feels like you are trying to say that it's OK to produce whatever content and message as long as you agree with the message.

Questioning why something exists is not the same thing as censorship.

Nobody here is campaigning to boycott it or emailing the publisher trying tp get the project shut down.

Categorizing criticism as censorship is just strawmanning.

See the post I replied to above. The poster is clearly saying the game should not exist and that is in fact an intent of censorship. The poster does not hold the power to do it, luckily. Maybe you in particular are not planning to boycott the game in any meaningful way and that's great, we shouldn't do that to any game at all.

If you are critizing a game based solely in the trailer I don't know why then we went in such a way to discuss that. You started critizing it for being propaganda and that's a very selective approach, considering I showed you how a lot of things are propaganda. What is the other criticism you make of the game? I would say that categorizing it as propaganda and supporting that argument by ignoring how a lot of things are full of that would be the definition of strawmanning (didn't know that word existed, thanks!).

I'm glad we agree that this game should exist and I support your right to criticize the game as any other. Carry on!

 

[viveks86]

Ok, so if I understood correctly the problem is not the message but the medium and the way the game obtained funding?

Movies are OK despite that particular movie BHD had public resources invested in the making (including the participation of 100 soldiers) so that's acceptable because you agree with the message (keep in mind many people do not agree with that particular movie and the way it depicted the conflict).

What makes a game different from a movie? What do you mean it's not a video game? If it's not, what is it? a Digital movie? In that case it would be OK by your own criteria, right?

Does this game use public funding or the participation of any government agency (as to be using public funding indirectly like the movie)?

It feels like you are trying to say that it's OK to produce whatever content and message as long as you agree with the message.







See the post I replied to above. The poster is clearly saying the game should not exist and that is in fact an intent of censorship. The poster does not hold the power to do it, luckily. Maybe you in particular are not planning to boycott the game in any meaningful way and that's great, we shouldn't do that to any game at all.

If you are critizing a game based solely in the trailer I don't know why then we went in such a way to discuss that. You started critizing it for being propaganda and that's a very selective approach, considering I showed you how a lot of things are propaganda. What is the other criticism you make of the game? I would say that categorizing it as propaganda and supporting that argument by ignoring how a lot of things are full of that would be the definition of strawmanning (didn't know that word existed, thanks!).

I'm glad we agree that this game should exist and I support your right to criticize the game as any other. Carry on!

Yeah I'm getting confused with stances here. On the one hand they don't want it to be funded by Microsoft. So who else should fund it? Their likely answer is nobody. But somehow they are NOT calling for it to be canceled... because... money grows on trees? Pick a lane, folks, and by all means express it. Even calling for censorship is fine. It's just an opinion till someone in power decides to act on it. But at least be sure that's what you want... or not. I'd prefer Angry_Megalodon 's honest take to some wishy-washy amorphous opinion.

 

[calico]

This propaganda masquerading as a game is allowed to exist. It would be preferable if it did not, and yes that is because of what it will be propaganda for.

The idea that all games can only be beneficial to gaming and losing them can only be bad is nonsense. If I am to choose between a game glorifying the molestation of children existing or not existing then I am choosing 'not existing', and gaming and society will be better for it not existing.

 

[MacReady13]

strawmanning

There may be women or non binary folx in here so please, strawpersoning from here on out. Thanks and bye for now.

 

[Alebrije]

Maybe its a Survivor Game like Day Z. Anyway it's plot is stupid nobody asked for it.

 

[Antwix]

So happy games like these come out every now and then. Looking forward to the steam charts!

 

[Renozokii]

Thats a catch frase right there.

"South of Midnight! The least shitty game you will play this gen" Avaible on Gamepass.

Lol right

I would rather get an Alligator Alcatraz game personally.

If south of midnight level games come out on a slightly more frequent basis from MS game studios it will be a straight upgrade.

 

[yogaflame]

 

[kiphalfton]

Have you ever crossed US/Can borders?

You need a passport or other valid ID to get through customs. And they track your license plate when you drive over. My buddies and I cant even just spend a night spending money in Buffalo or Detroit watching a Sabres or Tigers game without showing ID at the border.

Nobody just waltzes in. People follow the process.

I know right.

I just want to go get some poutine across the border, but noooo

 

[ReasonBeing]

Agreed, its disgusting because its illegal

To be fair, murdering people is illegal, stealing is illegal, etc, and I rarely see games with these mechanics described as "disgusting". Not saying this game is worth people's time, just pointing out the double standard.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

This propaganda masquerading as a game is allowed to exist. It would be preferable if it did not, and yes that is because of what it will be propaganda for.

The idea that all games can only be beneficial to gaming and losing them can only be bad is nonsense. If I am to choose between a game glorifying the molestation of children existing or not existing then I am choosing 'not existing', and gaming and society will be better for it not existing.

It's not like the most popular gaming series in existence is not glorifying violence, so I don't get your outrage. Net loss to society is much higher from crime than from few Mexicans crossing the border illegally to get shit job on a California farm. Before you start to get outraged - obligatory mention IRS has no issue taking tax money from illegals.

 

[digimaster7]

To be fair, murdering people is illegal, stealing is illegal, etc, and I rarely see games with these mechanics described as "disgusting". Not saying this game is worth people's time, just pointing out the double standard.

and that's exactly the problem, illegal is illegal don't pretend you're the good guys.

while on the other hand somehow illegal immigration is being portrait as a good thing because people are searching for a better life or some shit.

its not a double standard. GTA 4 know you're playing as a bad guy, while this game trying to portray illegal as something good, that's the difference. Its propaganda, messaging, and activism. Also I'm not the one saying it, the devs said it themselves that they're activist.

I'll guarantee you this game is gonna portray illegal immigrant as a fucking saint