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[graywolf323]

That's because you operate in a fictional world and make up whatever suits you.

Literally just said Concord wasn't even that bad 2 days ago.
Marathon art style "genuinely brilliant."
Marathon, "my prediction is that game will still do fine."
I haven't talked shit on Ghost of Yotei specifically because of the writing or main character gender, and said I'd get it on sale.
Gave Astro Bot a lot of praise.
Sony funding a global warming game. I gave it a thumbs up. Looks cool. Actually the very 1st thumbs up, and only 1 of 2. OP loaded with political BS memes of Greta Thunberg; reply calling it propaganda. I would have argued defending it in the same way, but the thread died and I was probably busy. I got banned debating @ManaByte on the existence of global warming, which he was repeatedly downplaying and denying.

For all the crap you pretend I spew, I was right about everything I criticized Sony for. Right about all of it, and in 2021 years before most people here. Jim Ryan was trouble, GAAS initiative was crap, and too many samey safe sequels with barely any change. Now every PS fan agrees with me on all of it, 4 years later.

sorry man I was mostly just poking fun at your reputation, more so about you are known to defend basically anything Microsoft does

Not jumping in on the slap fight, but IMO if Sony was funding slop like this the negative response would be even greater because people actually care about PlayStation. Funding a game like this is also very on-brand for MS so it's less shocking.

oh agreed for sure, deservedly so

 

[Punished Miku]

sorry man I was mostly just poking fun at your reputation, more so about you are known to defend basically anything Microsoft does


oh agreed for sure, deservedly so

It's fine, no worries. I get it.

 

[Madonis]

Bro, those arent immigrants, those are illegal migrants, tons of them are criminals before even crossing the border, proper paperwork is needed to know who is crossing the border, if its not some gang member/child predator etc, its basics- u gotta know who is entering ur country.

Objectively speaking, the vast majority of them were not "criminals before even crossing the border" at all:

As of June 14, ICE had booked into detention 204,297 individuals (since October 1, 2024, the start of fiscal year 2025). Of those book-ins, 65 percent, or 133,687 individuals, had no criminal convictions. Moreover, more than 93 percent of ICE book-ins were never convicted of any violent offenses. About nine in ten had no convictions for violent or property offenses. Most convictions (53 percent) fell into three main categories: immigration, traffic, or nonviolent vice crimes. The appendix table at the end of this post has data by detailed crime and broad crime categorization.

https://www.cato.org/blog/65-people-taken-ice-had-no-convictions-93-no-violent-convictions

Furthermore, even some people who already had legal permits to remain inside the country have been made "illegal" at the stroke of a pen. That's...not nice.

Mind you, I'm not against enforcement of immigration law per se. I just don't think it should be a big priority to, say, send masked goons after neighbors living in peace.

I'm confident the "vision" (if you can even call it that) of the devs was to try to address perceived racism by trying to humanize illegal immigrants by having the player gain perspective on their lived experience of as an illegal immigrant trying to make their way to the US for a better life.

Problem is, opponents of illegal immigration are not opposed to it on the basis of racism. So, the entire concept of the project falls apart. Gamers don't give a shit about the experience of an illegal immigrant, because they're both legally and ethically immoral in their actions by breaking the law to jump the immigration queue.

You can try to say that, but anti-immigration stances - not just against illegal immigration - are on the rise among the followers of the current administration.
If anything, they want to either stop or cripple the legal immigration process, rather than trying to make it more efficient or more reasonable across the board.

It's not entirely about racism, yet that factor is nevertheless present in many comments on social media. I imagine some of those might be bots, yet they still get likes.

I'm almost never going to play this particular game, frankly, but I see nothing wrong with humanizing people who have done less "evil deeds" than a GTA protagonist.

 

[graywolf323]

It's fine, no worries. I get it.

still, I went ahead and removed the part I had edited in

 

[FalsettoVibe]

The other site also grants an instant permaban if you show even a hint of having a different affiliation. Or if it's the same one, but not extreme enough.

I think we should be happy we are allowed to discuss some things here and that making certain jokes or coming close to political discussion isn't dramatically shut down with people involved being kicked out.

I agree, banning people is not the answer. That creates in my opinion a manufactured hivemind. But that doesn't make here better by much. Here exists a what I would call a natural ideological cluster, kinda where the dominant view is developed organically from the user base, rather than enforced rules or bans. While that is not a bad thing, it still comes off as a "tribal echo chamber" vs the "manufactured hivemind" from the other place.
It's more organic........but still polarizing.

 

[A.Romero]

No matter what kind of soft label you want to try to assign to it. It's not censorship. You even acknowledge this indirectly with your next sentence:



Ergo... it's not censorship. Full stop. The poster is not calling for a boycott or trying to get the project cancelled. They are stating an opinion about its value as a piece of entertainment. Saying, "X should not exist", is no different to gamers saying, "who even asked for this?" when a publisher shows a trailer of a new game in an IP or genre that no-one cares about. It's not an intent of censorship. It's a statement of opinion on the perceived complete lack of value of the thing being presented.

You're strawmanning by jumping to the "censorship" conclusion just to try to pretend you're taking some moral high ground by not criticizing this horseshit. It's transparent.

I'm glad I was mistaken and it's not censorship what some people are looking for.

As I said two replies before: If it's not censorship then there is no argument to be had. Let's rejoice in a variety of gaming and free speech!

 

[viveks86]

Something weird happened to their CEO's, we got solid proof from 2021, so close to 4 years of total brainrot:

This made my day. Can't believe I missed this!

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Something weird happened to their CEO's, we got solid proof from 2021, so close to 4 years of total brainrot:

Altho on other hand who really knows, it might have already started even earlier if we take into account what xbox/gaming division did for well over a decade and how they ruined perfectly fine business from back in x360 times
Personally i think they either all sold their souls to satan or collectively caught derangement syndrome or every1 in the company got told to watch idiocracy movie and keep behaving like that

Oh, it gets even better:



This is Microsoft, everyone.

 

[Topher]

I agree, banning people is not the answer. That creates in my opinion a manufactured hivemind. But that doesn't make here better by much. Here exists a what I would call a natural ideological cluster, kinda where the dominant view is developed organically from the user base, rather than enforced rules or bans. While that is not a bad thing, it still comes off as a "tribal echo chamber" vs the "manufactured hivemind" from the other place.
It's more organic........but still polarizing.

But we have plenty of discussions and disagreements here without that constant fear of being banned like how it was at the other site. That makes GAF far better, imo. There is a dominant point of view on things and many are of the same mind on socio-political topics, but the fact that dissenting views are not shut down is an important difference. Wasn't that long ago that there was a lengthy discussion on the issues surrounding AC Shadows, for example. I was in the minority on that, but if I am "organically" in the minority and still have just as much voice in the debate as the majority then I don't see a problem. The fact that there is an ongoing debate says there is no "echo chamber" or "hivemind". If there were then there would be no debate here at all.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

The other site also grants an instant permaban if you show even a hint of having a different affiliation. Or if it's the same one, but not extreme enough.

I think we should be happy we are allowed to discuss some things here and that making certain jokes or coming close to political discussion isn't dramatically shut down with people involved being kicked out.

It's really not that hard around here. As a liberal myself, I find Resetera scarier. GAF is mostly just right leaning teddy bears. Their hearts are still in the right place. Obviously there are a few here that seem to think hunting down human beings with crocodiles, masks and lethal weapons is so hilaaaarious… but the rest won't hurt a fly! Finding who to engage with can be tricky at first, but it gets easier with time. An open mind may surprise you with a meaningful exchange of opposing viewpoints

Yep.

Neogaf is actually by far the most fair and reasonable of the big remaining gaming forums left compared to like like Gamefaqs and Resetera etc etc. It's nowhere near the opposite of the mentally insane asylum known as resetera. You can have different views compared to most people on Neogaf and even defend that view and still not get in trouble unless you get too heated but that also applies to even folks that shares the view of most posters here. So it's actually fair and reasonable since no side is immune to getting in trouble if the poster goes too extreme. While in resetera, forget about having different views let alone defend it, you'll be very lucky not to get into trouble if you aren't as extreme as the majority of their views which are insane and wrong in the first place.

Obvious there are extremes in every side and it's never good but the big difference is the extreme on one side while cruel and "mean" are still not thin skinned and could allow people that disagree with them to be among them even if they can't coexist well. Like at most they'll make a some mean or cruel meme posts or something like that which most probably won't actually go through with it in real life. While in the other extreme of the insane side they'll go crazy and berserk against anyone who doesn't go along with their insane twisted disgusting views. It's why you'll see a lot of them reveal the screaming angry demon as soon as there's a disagreement. Lots of them legit wishes death on people that voted for a certain someone and they probably meant it while the other side making the cruel jokes or statement on this matter might just be taking the joke too far and don't actually meant it.

As for me I personally don't have a problem with a game like this existing just like I don't mind that incest game existing or the countless porn games on steam existing, I will never buy them nor be interested in them but let them exist for the small amount of people that wants them for whatever their reason is.

For the whole immigrant thing, I do think entering the country legally is fair and reasonable and how things are suppose to be anyway. But the Illegal ones who were already here and haven't hurt/endanger anyone should not be deported since a lot were already living all these years without harming or harassing people here. But yeah anyone illegal currently here that does crimes/endangers or harasses others needs to get deported without question.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

You can try to say that, but anti-immigration stances - not just against illegal immigration - are on the rise among the followers of the current administration.

Huh!? Where?? Among who? Please provide receipts...

 

[kpopSuperstar]

Maybe they can fund a game about how illegal immigration affects a place, or how it is to live in an area affected by high immigration.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Maybe they can fund a game about how illegal immigration affects a place, or how it is to live in an area affected by high immigration.

How would well-off liberal MS devs know about that? Illegal immigrants don't loiter and sponge in those neighborhoods.

 

[viveks86]

No matter what kind of soft label you want to try to assign to it. It's not censorship. You even acknowledge this indirectly with your next sentence:



Ergo... it's not censorship. Full stop. The poster is not calling for a boycott or trying to get the project cancelled. They are stating an opinion about its value as a piece of entertainment. Saying, "X should not exist", is no different to gamers saying, "who even asked for this?" when a publisher shows a trailer of a new game in an IP or genre that no-one cares about. It's not an intent of censorship. It's a statement of opinion on the perceived complete lack of value of the thing being presented.

You're strawmanning by jumping to the "censorship" conclusion just to try to pretend you're taking some moral high ground by not criticizing this horseshit. It's transparent.

As much as I agree with you, the truth lies somewhere in between. Far too many people, not just on this forum, but in real life too, hide behind a veil of "I'm just criticizing" when what they actually want is eradication.

"Oh I wish someone would not fund them"

"But if no one funds them, they won't exist. Do you want them to not exist?"

"No no no. That's not what I mean. They have the right to exist. I'm just not happy about it... "

"So what would make you happy?"

And the cycle repeats...

"Criticism" can easily become a cop-out defense like how biased journalists grill someone ruthlessly and when challenged, they go "I'm just asking questions".

Criticism can also be out of legitimate concern and good faith. But I suspect many haven't reflected enough on what is it they really want.

Support for censorship can be anywhere from thinking about it, talking about it, gathering support, to calling the nearest congressman. You are being too lenient by only choosing the very last step as noteworthy. All the previous steps are necessary before the final action is considered.

And censorship isn't such a terrible thing either, that even mentioning it becomes a strawman. If you believe certain games or studios with certain agendas cause net harm to the society and should be prevented from spreading a harmful viewpoint or scamming people, then there is nothing intrinsically wrong in calling for censorship. It's still a good faith argument and worthy of debate. It's not a bad word by any means. Most of the world has no actual freedom of speech anyway. As long as your stance on it is clear, I would have no dispute. It's not that clear with a lot of posts.

 

[calico]

A game where you play as a Martha's Vineyard resident and you have to get the illegal immigrants removed as quickly as possible while maintaining your impeccable pro open borders public persona.

 

[Roni]

To be fair, murdering people is illegal, stealing is illegal, etc, and I rarely see games with these mechanics described as "disgusting". Not saying this game is worth people's time, just pointing out the double standard.

You're bringing too much reason into a thread about hate. But you're right, though...

 

[Madonis]

Huh!? Where?? Among who? Please provide receipts...

I mean, you could just look around the website formerly known as Twitter and bring back tons of examples, but here's one incident that's more specific:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5057874-musk-maga-h1b-visas-immigration/

 

[Clear]

That's a favorite saying of conservatives though

Its apocryphal but its a good observation of how with maturity people tend to set aside political utopianism in favour of pragmatism.

The reality is that if you've been around long enough, or at least have been paying attention long enough, you realize that corruption is an inevitable element within every political system, in every culture! Politics is power, and power attracts people who will seek to wield that power for purposes that are less than altruistic.

So any "revolution" where a group seeks power to fundamentally change society, represents a massive double-edged sword. Because its takes big centralized power to effect that sort of change, which is the ultimate target-rich environment for psychopaths and wannabe tyrants.

 

[calico]

You're bringing too much reason into a thread about hate. But you're right, though...

Is it your belief that those games exist to promote or perpetuate murder and theft in real life? My assumption is the vast majority of them do not.

They have the right to exist. I'm just not happy about it...

There is no contradiction here. You can of course hold the position that someone has the right to say something while preferring they would not say it.

The First Amendment is currently held to protect some abhorrent speech, which would almost universally be considered abhorrent. The line is not drawn that liberally because people want those ideas to be expressed, but because drawing those lines more strictly is considered the greater risk.

 

[Topher]

Its apocryphal but its a good observation of how with maturity people tend to set aside political utopianism in favour of pragmatism.

The reality is that if you've been around long enough, or at least have been paying attention long enough, you realize that corruption is an inevitable element within every political system, in every culture! Politics is power, and power attracts people who will seek to wield that power for purposes that are less than altruistic.

So any "revolution" where a group seeks power to fundamentally change society, represents a massive double-edged sword. Because its takes big centralized power to effect that sort of change, which is the ultimate target-rich environment for psychopaths and wannabe tyrants.

I don't disagree, but not going to get into it further as these posts have been deleted.

 

[ReasonBeing]

and that's exactly the problem, illegal is illegal don't pretend you're the good guys.

while on the other hand somehow illegal immigration is being portrait as a good thing because people are searching for a better life or some shit.

its not a double standard. GTA 4 know you're playing as a bad guy, while this game trying to portray illegal as something good, that's the difference. Its propaganda, messaging, and activism. Also I'm not the one saying it, the devs said it themselves that they're activist.

I'll guarantee you this game is gonna portray illegal immigrant as a fucking saint

So I have some issues with your arguments.

Firstly, you're conflating legality with morality which is separate argument. Following the law doesn't make one a "good guy" and breaking the law doesn't make someone a "bad guy". Jay walkers don't have some moral defect. Predatory lenders and fake faith healers aren't virtuous.

Secondly, besides this being a strawman (there are many many many stories and video games besides GTA IV), I think your argument that "you know you're playing as a bad guy in GTA IV" just shows a lack of understanding when it comes to literary devices such as the hero's journey. Niko is presented as the morally ambiguous, sympathetic protagonist, who is clearly not the "bad guy" of the story. It also ignores your own proposition that "illegal is illegal" and by definition is "disgusting".

I'll give you an example of how silly this stance is. In the story and video game adaption of Aladdin, the protagonist is a street rat thief who steals and thwarts law enforcement so that he and his monkey can survive (justifying something illegal). The 'legal enforcers' are clearly the bad guys, yet I imagine you never have described Aladdin as "disgusting" due to "illegal being illegal".

Lastly, jumping to the conclusion that someone's differing ideology is by definition propaganda is a weak argument. All stories have a point of view, and choosing to not engage with these points of view through labeling such stories as propaganda really is just a symptom of todays reactionary politics and people's fear of having their ideas challenged. Edit: I forgot to mention that not you, me, nor anyone else has any idea how this games story will play out. You are fighting an invisible enemy in your mind, at this point in time.

 

[Kacho]

I don't disagree, but not going to get into it further as these posts have been deleted.

Well I guess that answers the fake concern from users about no politics. Moderators are moderating so things don't get out of hand, while not mass banning people. Would you look at that.

 

[rkofan87]

I'd try it on GP. Doesnt look like much. Probably a super small team with barely anything, getting picked on by a racist youtube millionaire.

No one seems to have a problem with GTA having "illegal activities" in it. People on here were defending rape games when they got delisted on Steam. I guess this was the bridge too far for GAF. Not murder, not any other illegal activity ever. This was the trigger, this no name tiny game with barely anything going for it.

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[Clear]

I don't disagree, but not going to get into it further as these posts have been deleted.

Yeah, I was trying to be careful not to get into partisan politics. I mean I guess you could boil it down to small "c" conservatism versus radicalism when it comes to supporting change. Like I said, when you're young you tend not to worry about consequences so much, as much as anything because there isn't the same perception of what you might lose if your idealistic dream gets ruined by bad actors.

On topic, as I mentioned earlier I don't fault the makers of this thing for wanting to create a game with what they deem to contain important pro-social messaging, the problem I have is that its an extremely dumb, blunt-instrument approach to place the message above the entertainment in an entertainment product!

It completely obviates the value of presenting it within the medium. They'd be much more effective just taking the money and spending it on marketing the message directly! Same goes for whoever funded it... what were they thinking?

 

[JayK47]

These idiots are allowed to make whatever they want. But it is a very political game and it takes a very far left stance. And of course woke ass MS is supporting it. You can hear the money getting flushed down the toilet. The game will barely sell and of course we are assholes for not playing it. Personally I am tired of this garbage invading my hobby and I play video games to escape this shit. They beat us over the head with this shit. It is no wonder orange man won.

 

[Punished Miku]

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Yeah, Roach God was definitely triggered hard by this game and went on an embarrassing cancel rant to Elon. Major REEE vibes.

 

[calico]

I forgot to mention that not you, me, nor anyone else has any idea how this games story will play out

Maybe not the plot beats, but if you watched the presentation -in which they spent so long on pro-illegal immigrant propaganda they literally ran out of time to show the game trailer- you probably have a pretty good idea what message the game will be pushing.

If you bet on it being an anti-illegal-immigration narrative, you are going to lose that bet, and we could have guessed this even without the presentation.

 

[Kacho]

Yeah, Roach God was definitely triggered hard by this game and went on an embarrassing cancel rant to Elon. Major REEE vibes.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

As much as I agree with you, the truth lies somewhere in between. Far too many people, not just on this forum, but in real life too, hide behind a veil of "I'm just criticizing" when what they actually want is eradication.

"Oh I wish someone would not fund them"

"But if no one funds them, they won't exist. Do you want them to not exist?"

"No no no. That's not what I mean. They have the right to exist. I'm just not happy about it... "

"So what would make you happy?"

And the cycle repeats...

"Criticism" can easily become a cop-out defense like how biased journalists grill someone ruthlessly and when challenged, they go "I'm just asking questions".

Criticism can also be out of legitimate concern and good faith. But I suspect many haven't reflected enough on what is it they really want.

Support for censorship can be anywhere from thinking about it, talking about it, gathering support, to calling the nearest congressman. You are being too lenient by only choosing the very last step as noteworthy. All the previous steps are necessary before the final action is considered.

And censorship isn't such a terrible thing either, that even mentioning it becomes a strawman. If you believe certain games or studios with certain agendas cause net harm to the society and should be prevented from spreading a harmful viewpoint or scamming people, then there is nothing intrinsically wrong in calling for censorship. It's still a good faith argument and worthy of debate. It's not a bad word by any means. Most of the world has no actual freedom of speech anyway. As long as your stance on it is clear, I would have no dispute. It's not that clear with a lot of posts.

You're pushing an effective "slippery slope fallacy". I just fundamentally disagree. People questioning why something exists isn't censorship and will not lead to censorship in any meaningful practical way. You're just catastrophising what is effectively people commenting their benign opinions on a discussion forum. This is NeoGaf, not the US Congress.

I mean, you could just look around the website formerly known as Twitter and bring back tons of examples, but here's one incident that's more specific:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5057874-musk-maga-h1b-visas-immigration/

If you have to go to the bottom feeders on Twitter to demonstrate that an extreme niche opinion is somehow growing in popularity, then It's pretty clear you're lacking in perspective and should probably spend more time offline in the real world.

Virtually no-one who is anti-immigration is anti-legal immigration (i.e. they want no legal immigration at all). Wanting more sensible legal immigration controls is also a valid and reasonable take, because uncontrolled legal immigration also can overwhelm the social systems in a country (see Canada for a prime example). The number of people who are opposed to all legal immigration, are so vanishingly small in number that it's not even worth talking about.

When engaging with an argument on a subject, if you have to point to some extreme minority to support a position on a topic, then you should realise you're being disingenuous and have lost the argument.

 

[drganon]

Yeah, Roach God was definitely triggered hard by this game and went on an embarrassing cancel rant to Elon. Major REEE vibes.

Give it a rest. You're only interested in this dumb game because MS is funding it.

 

[SHAKEZ]

Tango gets closed, but this gets money...

 

[ReasonBeing]

Maybe not the plot beats, but if you watched the presentation -in which they spent so long on pro-illegal immigrant propaganda they literally ran out of time to show the game trailer- you probably have a pretty good idea what message the game will be pushing.

If you bet on it being an anti-illegal-immigration narrative, you are going to lose that bet, and we could have guessed this even without the presentation.

I am not disagreeing with this, but at this point, it would be a fallacy to assume that this narrative will not be told with any nuance. My point was the person I was responding to was overstating their position, based on what we know currently. In the end, they could be right, but that is just an assumption at this point in time, and an argument built on assumptions is a weak argument.

Edit: to be honest, the point I made here has so little to do with my main rebuttal, that I would be willing to concede it entirely.

 

[viveks86]

There is no contradiction here. You can of course hold the position that someone has the right to say something while preferring they would not say it.

The First Amendment is currently held to protect some abhorrent speech, which would almost universally be considered abhorrent. The line is not drawn that liberally because people want those ideas to be expressed, but because drawing those lines more strictly is considered the greater risk.

Absolutely. I wasn't trying to point out a contradiction. But a refusal to dive deeper could result in a cyclical argument. Diving deeper may give better clarity on what your stance really is.

"What would make you happy?" should not result in the very first statement of that exchange. If so, then you have not thought about it enough.

You might realize that you actually do prefer that games like that are defunded as they are harmful i.e nip them in the bud .

Or you might realize "you know what. This is a free country after all and I'm not for censorship. Let them fund what they want to fund. I'll just not buy it and hope enough people vote with their wallets to send a clear message. I will continue advocating against people falling for what seems like a scam.".

Or you would like some individual marketplace-level regulation for banning overtly political content, like how GAF handles it here.

Or something wild like "I actually want to gather support and intimidate these people so they shut their company down and I can celebrate on its grave".

Those are all real stances and I'm certain there are more ways to look at it. If you are invested in the topic and want an actual debate, take a real stance. "I'm not happy about woke things and I'll criticize" just doesn't cut it imo. People are free to do what they want here, but it wouldn't take the discussion much further.

Not to mention most of the world doesn't even have a First Amendment like the US. Their thoughts on the topic would be wildly different than some of us taking all this for granted.

 

[Punished Miku]

For sure. He doesn't give a fuck. Gets paid big bucks anytime he can find something to get angry about. Very similar to feminists that will have to perpetually find a problem and never arrive at a solution. Horseshoe theory is crazy stuff. A cautionary tale of being so anti-REEE that you are all about cancel culture.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

I'd try it on GP. Doesnt look like much. Probably a super small team with barely anything, getting picked on by a racist youtube millionaire.

No one seems to have a problem with GTA having "illegal activities" in it. People on here were defending rape games when they got delisted on Steam. I guess this was the bridge too far for GAF. Not murder, not any other illegal activity ever. This was the trigger, this no name tiny game with barely anything going for it.

Gotta say Mik, for someone so disgusted with NeoGaf (apparently) and with such bitterness and resentment towards everyone, I do wonder why you keep coming back.

It's a constant barrage of digs/ insinuations and smart-assery lately with you - you even had the gall to call out Topher earlier, one of the most (if not the most) chillest, non abrasive dudes in here for "gaslighting ®" for crying out loud.

Here's a thought : if you find your political (or not) opinions not aligning with those of others maybe stop visiting ?

Personally, whenever I get tired of the usual back 'n' forths, e-bickering and rage baiting i take a break from the intrawebs for a couple of days and I'm good to go, maybe you should try it too.

 

[LordOcidax]

Thats IGN and Game awards GOTY material.

 

[Punished Miku]

Gotta say Mik, for someone so disgusted with NeoGaf (apparently) and with such bitterness and resentment towards everyone, I do wonder why you keep coming back.

It's a constant barrage of digs/ insinuations and smart-assery lately with you - you even had the gall to call out Topher earlier, one of the most (if not the most) chillest, non abrasive dudes in here for "gaslighting ®" for crying out loud.

Here's a though : if you find your political (or not) opinions not aligning with those of others maybe stop visiting ?

Personally, whenever I get tired of the usual back 'n' forths, e-bickering and rage baiting i take a break from the intrawebs for a couple of days and I'm good to go, maybe you should try it too.

Feel free to look in the mirror. I'm cracking jokes and playing games 99.9% of the time so maybe you can stop projecting your baggage onto me. You're bitter constantly, and everyone knows it. I'm fine with it, but you gotta act like your shit doesn't stink and start shit yet again because I guess you need an echo chamber. Not my problem.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Feel free to look in the mirror. I'm cracking jokes and playing games 99.9% of the time so maybe you can stop projecting your baggage onto me. You're bitter constantly, and everyone knows it. I'm fine with it, but you gotta act like your shit doesn't stink and start shit yet again because I guess you need an echo chamber. Not my problem.

I think we're gonna need a bigger mirror man.

Unfortunately, self-awareness = zero

All those years of negative Xbox news must have done a number on you.

 

[Kacho]

For sure. He doesn't give a fuck. Gets paid big bucks anytime he can find something to get angry about. Very similar to feminists that will have to perpetually find a problem and never arrive at a solution. Horseshoe theory is crazy stuff. A cautionary tale of being so anti-REEE that you are all about cancel culture.

He built a massive audience organically because he cared enough to cover hot button topics and happened to align with gamers that were shunned by established gaming personalities. Jeff Grubb, Kyle Bosman, Jim Sterling, Jeff Gerstmann, etc etc etc either ignored everything or chose the safe path. That's why most of them faded into obscurity. If what Asmon does was so easy, the low effort rage baiters like Endymion and Yellow Flash would be just as relevant. But they aren't because they don't come across as genuine or have interesting takes. Asmon is a force to be reckoned with and he earned that.

He's done nothing to "cancel" this game by the way. Not sure why people keep saying that. He's just bringing attention to it which is a good thing. People like being informed.

 

[viveks86]

You're pushing an effective "slippery slope fallacy". I just fundamentally disagree. People questioning why something exists isn't censorship and will not lead to censorship in any meaningful practical way. You're just catastrophising what is effectively people commenting their benign opinions on a discussion forum. This is NeoGaf, not the US Congress.

When did I say people questioning something's existence is censorship? I already said I have no dispute with you as you have made it clear censorship is not what you want. But you are making the mistake of speaking for others. There are literally people posting images of illegal immigrants being chased with guns as a joke, or wanting to play as ICE agents instead who can hunt all of them down. Or calling a game about illegal immigration disgusting while gleefully murdering random pedestrians in scores of other games.

Do those posters even know what it is like to actually be an ICE agent and what their own trauma of chasing farmers through fields day in and day out, instead of violent criminals feels like? Not everyone is enjoying that job at the moment and I'm sure many are in need of therapy. None of this shit is black and white if you start peeling the layers.

All your points are valid as long as you don't pepper your posts with "Nobody said this" and "Nobody said that". There are lots of people saying all kinds of things. If you don't think so and everyone is rational and has already thought about it like you did, then we can agree to disagree.

 

[Madonis]

If you have to go to the bottom feeders on Twitter to demonstrate that an extreme niche opinion is somehow growing in popularity, then It's pretty clear you're lacking in perspective and should probably spend more time offline in the real world.

Virtually no-one who is anti-immigration is anti-legal immigration (i.e. they want no legal immigration at all). Wanting more sensible legal immigration controls is also a valid and reasonable take, because uncontrolled legal immigration also can overwhelm the social systems in a country (see Canada for a prime example). The number of people who are opposed to all legal immigration, are so vanishingly small in number that it's not even worth talking about.

When engaging with an argument on a subject, if you have to point to some extreme minority to support a position on a topic, then you should realise you're being disingenuous and have lost the argument.

That's a fallacy, because I've cited another source instead. Social media would provide more examples, but not the only one. That already negates half of your point.

Saying "virtually no one" is nothing more than your own opinion, not a fact. I'll give you another example then: Stephen Miller is a top administration official and he's directly influencing public policy right now. He's a damn racist and xenophobe. Tons of sources will back that up. With someone like that making key decisions right now, often receiving congratulations instead of pushback from MAGA Republicans, are you going to pretend that anti-immigration sentiment is not on the rise in that party? Sorry, I'm not going to buy that bridge. Even if you want to claim he's an outlier, I don't see any widespread rejection of him from the right.

We're not talking about "sensible" controls. It's gone above and beyond that by this point. You don't put someone like that in charge if you want to be reasonable.

 

[Punished Miku]

He built a massive audience organically because he cared enough to cover hot button topics and happened to align with gamers that were shunned by established gaming personalities. Jeff Grubb, Kyle Bosman, Jim Sterling, Jeff Gerstmann, etc etc etc either ignored everything or chose the safe path. That's why most of them faded into obscurity. If what Asmon does was so easy, the low effort rage baiters like Endymion and Yellow Flash would be just as relevant. But they aren't because they don't come across as genuine or have interesting takes. Asmon is a force to be reckoned with and he earned that.

He's done nothing to "cancel" this game by the way. Not sure why people keep saying that. He's just bringing attention to it which is a good thing. People like being informed.

He's the top guy. Witty, can be very funny. I've watched his stuff many times. I didn't used to despise it when it was mostly about gaming. But he (in my opinion) got wrapped up in a similar political spiral that reminds me of REEE honestly and is sheepherding a giant chunk of his followers into political topics that I massively disagree with him on. Reminds me of Milo Yiannopolis as well. Guy started as one of the first reporters to ever give Gamergate a chance, was just trying to report the facts and be fair when a lot of people weren't, mostly apolitical, against cancel culture or retribution. Couple years later he's suddenly going against everything his said, sheepherding people to Trump who he literally calls "daddy." Roach Prime Minister has earned my criticism in much the same way.

And yes, I do consider it trying to cancel a game to be one of the top influencers out there and discuss the funding for the game with his broad audience, and with the richest man in the world. Far more influential cancel culture style pressure than many shitty examples we've seen on the left. The trailers have already been pulled and accounts closed.

 

[Kacho]

Guy started as one of the first reporters to ever give Gamergate a chance, was just trying to report the facts and be fair when a lot of people weren't, mostly apolitical, against cancel culture or retribution. Couple years later he's suddenly going against everything his said, sheepherding people to Trump who he literally calls "daddy." Roach Prime Minister has earned my criticism in much the same way.

I don't remember all of that. I found him in the late 2010's because he was the only YouTuber dropping real talk on the state of World of Warcraft. It was therapeutic to me at the time. Then I watched him slowly transition into what he his now.

And yes, I do consider it trying to cancel a game to be one of the top influencers out there and discuss the funding for the game with his broad audience, and with the richest man in the world. Far more influential cancel culture style pressure than many shitty examples we've seen on the left. The trailers have already been pulled and accounts closed.

Cool. We can agree to disagree. Bringing attention to the game vs established media outlets refusing to cover a game for political reasons. Two totally different things in my mind.

 

[Forsete]

Anyone remember that lovely pronoun video from MS?

*dies from cringe*

 

[Gamer79]

Oh, Microsoft. And you wonder why you are losing money and popularity in the console business. Just clueless. Guaranteed this is a woke activist development team.

 

[yurinka]

Tango gets closed, but this gets money...

To be fair, pretty likely MS only funded a small part of this development (case of most indies that get money from MS). And pretty likely the total development budget of this game pretty likely was smaller than a only a year of Tango's CEO or maximum their board of directors.

 

[Gamer79]

The thing is, no one cares when it is white people. No one would bat an eye about Canadians or white Europeans being here without documents. It's racism plain and simple. That's why the roach king and other racists care so much.

Well typically if you do not speak the native language, have no form of ID or worse Fake ID's, it's pretty easy to spot.

BTW, I apply the same rules to all people. There are a ton of White Russian mobsters or Europeans who are bad dudes that I don't want over here. Most people don't have a problem with Legal migration. It's the undocumented 3rd world people who are pooring into our country. We don't know who they are, we don't know their history, many do not share or ever care to share our values. Look at the UK over there. They have let so many migrants in those countries that by 2050, England will be mostly Muslim. They are literally losing their culture. Now you see Riots start to break out and uprest people the local citizens have reached a breaking point. If you let enough third world people into your country, you become the third world. Don't forget that.

 

[Roni]

Is it your belief that those games exist to promote or perpetuate murder and theft in real life?

No. However it is evident, not just a simple belief, that games that deal in violence (recently, even sexual violence) have their right to exist and be sold defended around these parts instead of being criticized for their contents without even being released. It is also evident most people who play aforementioned games engage in those illegal activities while building rapport and empathy for their protagonists regardless of them being criminals or not; or, at the very least, you play them to enjoy whatever activity is on display, legal or not.

Both of those things lead me to believe most people clutching at their pearls ITT are more concerned with this piece of interactive media serving its purpose of having other people empathize with America's chosen enemy of the times.

 

[BigBeauford]

For sure. He doesn't give a fuck. Gets paid big bucks anytime he can find something to get angry about. Very similar to feminists that will have to perpetually find a problem and never arrive at a solution. Horseshoe theory is crazy stuff. A cautionary tale of being so anti-REEE that you are all about cancel culture.

Has he advocated death and financial ruin upon the creators?
Has he gone out of his way to harass supporters of the game?
Has he petitioned his government to demand the creators face legal penalities and/or jail time at the threat of gunpoint?

No? Then shut the fuck up about horseshoe theory and cancel culture equivalencies.

 

[Punished Miku]

Has he advocated death and financial ruin upon the creators?
Has he gone out of his way to harass supporters of the game?
Has he petitioned his government to demand the creators face legal penalities and/or jail time at the threat of gunpoint?

No? Then shut the fuck up about horseshoe theory and cancel culture equivalencies.

Guess I hit a nerve. Main thing cancel culture started with is going after advertising, and just creating that negative association between the content and the brands funding it. Its an attack on the funding source through negative association. This is exactly what's happening, whether you can handle admitting it or not makes no difference to me.

Very shortly after the video went up, they closed their Twitter account. Instead of reeling it back he makes a "joke" that they self deported. So he's 100% egging it on and encouraging his supporters to stay on it and get more closed. His joke is flaunting the result like a trophy. He personally got their account closed and wants more.

Then he reports his funding research to the richest man in the world complete with his theories why its set up that way to "limit damage to the MS brand."

That means that he sees spreading this info as a means to damage the MS brand and actually thinks MS is using hidden funds to limit their exposure. This is a classic Gamergate style negative association campaign. It couldn't possibly be more obvious. This is what people did going after woke crap on Kotaku by widely associating advertisers with controversial content and spreading it around until they dropped it. This is how people got fired through cancel culture. See if you can get something spreading around social media and publicly tie it to the employer (the funding) until they getting dropped.

This is exactly what he is doing here.