DigitalFoundry: Hands-on with PS4 1080p 30fps...!!

Nirolak said:
I've been saying for about three years now not to expect 60 FPS on a console for the vast majority of games.

I remain dumbfounded why people would constantly expect 60 FPS when developers have behaved the same way for 20-30 years now.
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People fall for PR talk.

But to be fair other devs have stated they will be getting 60 fps and seem to be sticking to that
 
Naked Lunch said:
Excuse me, but the developers behind Forza, Halo5, Titanfall, Killer Instinct, and Battlefield 4 are using 60fps as a selling point. These are big time titles too. Explain that.
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Two of those were developers who did 60 FPS last gen.

One of those is a fighting game (where everything is 60 FPS).

Halo and Battlefield are the only real changes there, and I presume they're reacting to CoD. Almost no one else from the games listed in the article though is making a game that focuses overwhelmingly on competitive FPS multiplayer.

jacksepticeye said:
People fall for PR talk.

But to be fair other devs have stated they will be getting 60 fps and seem to be sticking to that
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Yes, but those devs tend to be the exception, not the rule. We had 60 FPS games last gen and the gen before that, but expecting it in a game is generally a road to disappointment, instead of expecting 30 FPS and being surprised if it isn't.
 
Raiden said:
I dont need 60fps though. A solid 40-50 is good enough.
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You wouldn't want 40 to 50fps. When you have an uneven frame rate, it ends up sticking out like a sore thumb. And you really need the frame rate locked to either 60fps or 30fps for a good presentation on current TVs. Any other frame rate means that frames will be multiplied up to 60Hz unevenly, resulting in judder. Like trying to display 24Hz movies on a 60Hz display. You end up with hitches in the slow pans.
 
Nirolak said:
I've been saying for about three years now not to expect 60 FPS on a console for the vast majority of games.

I remain dumbfounded why people would constantly expect 60 FPS when developers have behaved the same way for 20-30 years now.
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But it has 8GB GDDR5 RAM. Do you understand that? There is no reason I can think of why 99% of games shouldn't run at 60FPS with 8GB GDDR5 RAM backing it up.
 
nofi said:
DriveClub's E3 demo was specifically for E3, AFAIK. That's the impression I got from those demoing it (Evo staff) and features like the cheeky camera snapping the player at the start.
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Well. yeah the demo was made for E3, but was any significant time spent on polishing it up for E3? (Like some devs end up spending weeks, sometimes more than a month, on polishing up the little section being shown in the demo). I was saying that it is likely they took the game pretty much as is and just sectioned off a part of it for the demo.
 
Tummi Gummi said:
Wow, overally that article gave me a slightly negative impression. Lots of noticable sub-30 drops, criticism of texture quality etc. Seems like Infamous 2 comes off best (or least bad) so far. It definitely makes me very suspicious of the most visually impressive titles they've shown, such as The Division.
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Lower your expectations for the division unless you have a mighty PC.

Out of my ass. Could be MS has better tools but HW issues and PS4 vice versa
 
farisr said:
Well. yeah the demo was made for E3, but was any significant time spent on polishing it up for E3? (Like some devs end up spending weeks, sometimes more than a month, on polishing up the little section being shown in the demo). I was saying that it is likely they took the game pretty much as is and just sectioned off a part of it for the demo.
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nope its an old build of the game
 
farisr said:
Well. yeah the demo was made for E3, but was any significant time spent on polishing it up for E3? (Like some devs end up spending weeks, sometimes more than a month, on polishing up the little section being shown in the demo). I was saying that it is likely they took the game pretty much as is and just sectioned off a part of it for the demo.
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Possibly.

Poor choice of course, IMO, it was quite flat visually. I quite liked the driving though.
 
KKRT00 said:
Except for direct feed footage and screenshots? MK 8 is current gen game in its hearts and with all its problems. There is nothing next-gen about it.
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The extremes in this topic are staggering, we've gone from MK8 being a benchmark that the PS4 isn't hitting to MK8 is a current gen game.

Middle ground where are you?
 
Horse Armour said:
But it has 8GB GDDR5 RAM. Do you understand that? There is no reason I can think of why 99% of games shouldn't run at 60FPS with 8GB GDDR5 RAM backing it up.
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Because visuals. It's either 60FPS with nice visuals or 30FPS with nicer visuals. The OP article says as much. What's not to get?
 
klapauzius said:
And no confirmation of 720p for MK8. Wait and see :)
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There won't be a confirmation. If it was 1080p they would definitely have said so in the Nintedno Direct. In fact, they even said they're currently working on getting 60fps in split-screen. The game's due in Spring. If it was gonna be 1080p they'd know by now.
 
Pretty clear 30 fps is a design choice. If you give devs 10x the power doesnt mean you will get 60 fps either.

A lot of this reminds me back will the x360 launch and people where outrage games were 30 fps like Gears of war.

Money talk and people want better looking games over FPS. Locked framerate really the most important thing.


klapauzius said:
Seems the PS4 does not have the "magic" hardware some people wanted to believe.

By the way it is true that Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros will be running in 1080p with 60FPS? ;-)

http://youtu.be/1sLVsJNcAks
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Wow that this logic....
 
MogCakes said:
Because visuals. It's either 60FPS with nice visuals or 30FPS with nicer visuals. The OP article says as much. What's not to get?
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ppl are STILL expecting every single game to be 1080/60 out the gate and others warned them and said they will aim for 1080/30. Smh
 
Killzone

When it comes to the tricky issue of control and response, Killzone: Shadow Fall currently delivers a largely 25-30FPS experience with v-sync engaged, where a long overview of the forest tests the hardware most. A strong trace of input lag is felt when turning the analogue sticks - a quirk that hangs over from the Killzone 2 days. It's a delay in response that is impossible to ignore after playing snappier low-latency shooters, and at the default 50 per cent sensitivity for the X and Y axis proved tricky to adapt to. Migrating to the new and more shooter-friendly Dual Shock 4 controller isn't the cause here, as this is the only game we test with such problems. Rather, the issue is likely to be the result of latency being built up over the course of a long and complex rendering pipeline.
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Input lag and the games can't even keep 30 fps.

So next gen.

It hasn't even started and we're already at terrible framerates
 
I literally cannot fathom why anybody would expect 60fps to be any sort of standard going into the next generation. I can appreciate and sympathise with people who want it, but the logistics of being a standard are flimsy at best.

Next gen 60fps has no rational to be a standard any more than 360/PS3 60fps standard, and GCN/Xbox/PS2 60fps standard. It is exclusively up to the developer, and entirely relative to engine optimisation, design scope, and asset quality.

From now until the end of time, or until some technical limitation/requirement forces a 60fps standard, developers will make games that fluctuate all over the place. There will always be a developer who prioritises 60fps for smooth responsive gameplay (see: fighters), and there will always be a developer happy with 30fps with the advantage of more complex rendering and game scope.
 
EatChildren said:
I literally cannot fathom why anybody would expect 60fps to be any sort of standard going into the next generation. I can appreciate and sympathise with people who want it, but the logistics of being a standard are flimsy at best.

Next gen 60fps has no rational to be a standard any more than 360/PS3 60fps standard, and GCN/Xbox/PS2 60fps standard. It is exclusively up to the developer, and entirely relative to engine optimisation, design scope, and asset quality.

From now until the end of time, or until some technical limitation/requirement forces a 60fps standard, developers will make games that fluctuate all over the place. There will always be a developer who prioritises 60fps for smooth responsive gameplay (see: fighters), and there will always be a developer happy with 30fps with the advantage of more complex rendering and game scope.
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Yep, the bigger problem is not stable 30fps, but for that they have still some time.
 
PairOfFilthySocks said:
There won't be a confirmation. If it was 1080p they would definitely have said so in the Nintedno Direct. In fact, they even said they're currently working on getting 60fps in split-screen. The game's due in Spring. If it was gonna be 1080p they'd know by now.
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Not necessarily, they didn't mention Smash being 1080p in the Direct. That was only found out later via their screenshots. They did mention WW though. Nintendo is weird when talking about graphical aspects of their titles, like in the DKCTF Direct. They were talking about DK's fur, really his fur... -_-
 
Design choice or not, they should be targeting 60fps for this next Gen. I f this can't be achieved, fallback to a locked 30 fps.
Pretty disappointed if this is the norm. These are launch titles to show what your new console can do.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if third party titles look and play better than first party in these early stages. The third party developers are already used to porting their games to PC with a smooth experience while achieving high quality graphics.
 
I Push Fat Kids said:
Nope.



Bayonetta 2, Sonic Lost World, and X among others were running at this level.
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No they weren't, we need a topic or something were each WiiU games resolution and framerate is listed.

Bayonetta 2 as far as we can tell is 720p and 60fps

Sonic Lost Worlds is confirmed to be 720p and 60fps

X as far as we know is 720p, the framerate is still unknown but most likely 30fps if we go by Xenoblade's framerate.

Based on what we have so far

MK8: 720p/60fps
WW: 1080p/30fps
SSBU: 1080p/60fps
Bayonetta 2: 720p/60fps
Sonic Lost Worlds: 720p/60fps
X: 720p/Unknown framerate (Most likely 30 based on Xenoblade)
 
shinobi602 said:
Not really...I've played plenty of 60fps games and while I definitely appreciate it, I don't mind playing 30fps at all.
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That is the same as seeing 60 and wanting it as often as possible. I wasn't saying people wouldn't play or buy games at 30fps.
 
I don't mind games being 30 fps. I would like to eliminate dipping below that though. If we could just keep a solid lock on 30 I'd be happy with it.
 
SapientWolf said:
Low framerate judder essentially blurs the image. Games look sharper at higher framerates. I care about framerates solely because of how they affect the visuals.
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Doubling framerate you can see 2x the number of pixels of the virtual world if you're moving.

When camera is still, screen resolution is the only factor in the amount of information you can see the virtual world.

But when camera is moving, you can see twice virtual world graphical information. The bandwidth is doubled.

So, doubling framerate you can see twice movement information and twice world information.
 
GameSeeker said:
On the games front: Internal Sony dev studios are used to writing code for a DX9 level nVidia part (PS3), for the last several years. They are now transitioning to a DX11 level AMD part (PS4). There will be a learning curve as they adjust, so don't be too harsh on early code.

Interestingly, 3rd parties (e.g., DICE with BF4) who are already used to writing PC code on DX11 AMD parts will have an easier time moving to the PS4. So we may see very good things from Battlefield 4, Watch Dogs, Assassin's Creed 4 Black Flag, etc. on the PS4.
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We have already seen really good things from BF from that live stream of a pre-alpha build that was stable and only showed minor bugs and glitches, and expected ones. (Clipping etc)
 
von zipp said:
Design choice or not, they should be targeting 60fps for this next Gen. I f this can't be achieved, fallback to a locked 30 fps.
Pretty disappointed if this is the norm. These are launch titles to show what your new console can do.
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Launch titles never show what your console can do though. Mario 64 is about the only launch title I can think of that remained among the best looking games on a console throughout it's entire lifespan.
 
KKRT00 said:
Hmmm let guess why? Maybe because we are talking about next-gen titles and Crysis 3 is currently the most next-gen game and it was released few months ago?
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Just out of interest, how fast can single GPU PC's run Crysis 3 at max settings? Isn't it only nowadays that single GPU PC's can run the original Crysis full speed at max settings?

How close to completion are these PS4 games?
 
USC-fan said:
Pretty clear 30 fps is a design choice. If you give devs 10x the power doesnt mean you will get 60 fps either.
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here's the thing.... (tin foil hat time)

60fps can't be seen in screenshots.
60fps can't be (really fully) seen (or appreciated) in youtube/review clips.
60fps means scaled back visuals (which CAN be seen in screenshots and videos)

It's been said numerous times in this thread, but it needs to be repeated until some people get it... to the general consumer and even typical hardcore gamer, the devs will see a more positive reaction out of improved visuals than they will from 60fps (except of course for highly competitive games)

These systems, PS4 and XBONE, and even (especially) Wii U are not a infinite source of computing power (sorry MS). They can either hit 60fps or hit 30fps and improve the visual quality of the title.

I strongly feel that what we'll see this gen is what we are already suggesting in this thread. Is it a highly competitive title (driving, mostly-multiplayer shooter, fighting, MOBA and sports)? Then it will be 60fps. Is it single player, mutli-player as a supplemental mode, mostly adventure, RPG, etc? Then it will be 30fps with lusher visuals.
 
Nirolak said:
I've been saying for about three years now not to expect 60 FPS on a console for the vast majority of games.

I remain dumbfounded why people would constantly expect 60 FPS when developers have behaved the same way for 20-30 years now.
Click to expand...

It would seem man is not a learning animal.
 
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