DigitalFoundry: Hands-on with PS4 1080p 30fps...!!
- Thread starter ahm998
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Nib, considering your infamous status at the ign boards over the years you really shouldn't point any fingers. Just saying..
Which looks better,Forza or DriveClub?both of them are launch games IIRC.
Potentially third parties may be in a better position to develop for next gen consoles as many will already have strong PC engines that should port nicely, whereas first party developers may have been stuck in a rut of dragging the last drops of performance for creaky old PS360
Permanently A
Junior Member
I would rather play 60 FPS with worse graphics than 30 FPS with great graphics.
PS4 doesn't use openGL.
you have an interesting point there first party might have to deal with non cell development...
giantbomb has a conversation about this stuff on their latest podcast (fps stuff, early stuff)
This discussion is kind of bizarre to see in action. The norm for console games is 30 fps, with some genres getting the 60 fps more often than others (racing games, fighting games). Why are people expecting this to change next gen? Most of the time developers (and the marketing team) will choose 30 fps with lots of effects over threadbare 60 fps.
I think people just got used to all the cross-gen games going for 60 frames per second and just assumed that was the default for Gen 8.
I think people just got used to all the cross-gen games going for 60 frames per second and just assumed that was the default for Gen 8.
Being a fan of certain games or platforms and being being an employee of them are two very different things. Everyone has preferences after all, but not everyone has a particular vested interest spurred by employment. Not saying ProElite is not to be trusted, just stating the facts. Also, I stopped posting at IGN several years ago.
I read that the game running on the PC was, of all games... LocoCycle. Twisted Pixel had responded to a tweet about it and they consciously decided to go that route due to issues porting the 360 version to X1. Not to say there could've been other games doing this as well, but I believe it was confirmed to only be LocoCycle so far.
Maybe, but I'm skeptical of that. I don't think gameplay is being sacrificed at a locked 30FPS. I'll go with what Nirolak has been saying, devs have been doing this for decades, doesn't matter the hardware.
I disagree. 60fps doesn't add clarity or fidelity. a 30fps TV show isn't 25% more clear than a 24fps movie. Likewise a 60fps game isn't 100% more clear than a 30fps game.
Frame rate is almost unarguably an "effect". Almost like a filter.. well, sort of. Visually it's like a filter (much like the 120Hz motion interpolation on TV that some people enjoy). There of course IS a gameplay advantage to it, especially in competitive play where double the screen updates means double the positioning updates. But if we are not talking about competitive play, 60fps is almost entirely an aesthetic. And not even (IMHO) good or bad. Much like 30fps TV or 24fps film (or even 48fps for film). It's a stylistic choice.
that's what I really don't get about this thread.. saying "I want all games to be 1080p60" is like saying you want all movies to be 4K/120. You don't really gain anything qualitative, and of course it changes the experience of the media entirely.
Devs should be able to choose their frame rates like movie directors (or even TV producers) choose theirs.
edit - of course frame rate dips are another story entirely.
Im pretty sure John Carmak already told everyone to expect a large number of developers to continue targeting 30fps anyway. It 60 FPS is not that important to me really, I would rather have a stunning game at 30fps, then an ok looking game at 60 if they cant work a solid enough compromise.
Guess I will post this here too
Background textures too blurry. Pre-order cancelled.
Grover Cleveland
Member
Forza looks better right now, but its moot when neither launches for at least another four to five months.
Both games will improve visually from what we saw at E3, to what we play on launch day.
I don't know why GAF gets this hard-on from comparing unfinished games when the only thing that matters is how they look when the final versions are released.
Demos are presented to show off the games hence the comparisons.
If I remember correctly, a couple other games Microsoft was showing off were running off PC's as well. Can't remember which ones though.
Proelite
Member
Guess I will post this here too
Wow that screenshot looks better than anything other screenshot I've seen with the exception of some of the stills from quantum break and the socerer tech demo.
th4tguy
Member
Woh, first I've heard about this? They using Direct x now? I would imagine that will greatly help with multiplats.
kriskrosbbk
Member
In a perfect world, everyone would consider the Dev's history as well and wouldn't start declaring that one game will look better than the other at launch. One dev is known to have a similar looking game to the finished product when they demo their game a few months off from launch (Turn10). The other is known to have games that look a good deal worse than the finished product when demoed a few months off from launch (Evolution).
Yes it is, you said;
"Seems clear as crystal to me, stating that mario kart and super mario have better looking gameplay than next-gen titles is borderline insanity".
I stated what a silly statement that is.
Sony's API, PSGL, isn't Open GL per se; It's based on Open GL, but not quite the same as using vanilla Open GL in other environments because it has a good number of customized elements.
Also, I was under the impression that PSGL was quite mature and easy to work with, and some people have even said that Sony's next-gen toolchain actually better than Microsoft's.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
It's something allows a large performance gain when you don't have to have realtime dynamic lighting on the whole world.
DF has been really quick to point out how much more powerful the PS4 is compared to XBO, quick to blurt out - upon seeing the GPU die shot - how they can "finally" exclaim without a shadow of a doubt that Wii U is not next-gen(almost like they had that burning desire for a long time). PS4 shows up with with seriously unpolished games, at times running at less than half the framerate of XBO games, but DF is left "undoubtedly impressed." Not even ONE 60fps game? Wow! No Smoke and Mirrors," they say. Well, except that smoke and mirrors was the very reason people were expecting more impressive and stable hands-on demos at E3.
Their analysis is what it is, but their feelings about the results and the conclusions they make isn't as fair as I'd like to see, and simply not as strict as I've seen them be with 'others.' Sony gets way too much of a pass here, especially with all that hype about being so powerful. They better come correct on launch day.
Their analysis is what it is, but their feelings about the results and the conclusions they make isn't as fair as I'd like to see, and simply not as strict as I've seen them be with 'others.' Sony gets way too much of a pass here, especially with all that hype about being so powerful. They better come correct on launch day.
Agreed with this - although what we saw at E3 does not square away with the "Oh noes! Xbox developers are 6 months behind on everything!" storyline we were being fed earlier.
I definitely did consider that but a jump from 30-60FPS and a major boost in visuals is something which I'm not hoping for.
Good news for inFamous. The launch lineup sounds like garbage though (I had some hopes for Knack, but my interest in that title is going down by the minute). And from reading that article I know now why DriveClub does not see GT6 as a competitor. They are in different leagues. I like Evolution Studios, but I fear Sony will shut them down in a year or so.
RibbedHero
Member
Gameplay is always being sacrificed at 30fps, the only debate is whether you think the difference is worth the drop in graphical fidelity.
There is literally never, and I mean never, an occasion where 30fps results in better gameplay than 60fps. The reverse on the other hand universally applies.
Which looks better now, or which will look better come launch? Right now I'd probably give Forza the edge, but right now I'd lean towards GT6 and it's on PS3.
Because Evolution makes massive leaps in visual quality as they finish off a game. What we saw at E3 likely isn't close to their final product. Here's the evolution of Motorstorm to highlight this:
http://vimeo.com/987411
Those improvements happened between the GDC 2006 demo and it's release in Japan in mid-December 2006, so depending on how old the E3 build is they have about the same time window to refine for launch.
So if I was to bet on which one would look better at launch I'd take DriveClub without much hesitation.
SRTtoZ
Member
And its something that makes the game look less real compared to Project Cars and GT5/6. I'll be impressed with Forza the day it actually looks photorealistic and has weather/day/night effects.
flipswitch
Member
It was one of my most anticipated launch games after seeing the trailers they released.
Not that hyped for it now.
PS4 supports DirectX11 and OpenGL, like any PC with a modern GPU. It's "development enviroment" will be more or less identical to the Xbox One. Visual Studio on a Windows machine. There might be some PS4 specific shader instructions, but for the most part, multiplatform development will consist of the developer selecting either PS4 or XBone from the compiler arguments.
Same here,I would have definitely picked it up at launch but now I'll wait,this is also because of their DLC plans.It was one of my most anticipated launch games after seeing the trailers they released.
Not that hyped for it now.
hmm ... I don't see all this terrible stuff in DC ...
well, probably because my job /s
Anyway, this thread, as expected, is a nasty place now. So ... Good luck with that.
*leaving silently*
gundamkyoukai
Member
Right idea how ?
That MS continue 60fps for fighting games and sims that was normal this gen .
yes but I prefer to get my lies from movies where I know it's fake instead of portraying fantasy as news.
pretty sad when we are black balling one of our best technical sites because they don't agree with our assumptions of hardware engineering
Fess
Member
Terrible design choice is my guess, they're doing everything they can to show of that visual leap in trailers and screen shots, and since 30 fps is pretty much standard today "nobody" will complain about it. Sad future indeed.
That video doesn't work on mobile,I'll check it out later.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
It's funny seeing some of the graphics/performance whores of the past few weeks transform into 'gameplay comes first' advocates all of a sudden.
Exactly - which is why the Forza 5 to DriveClub comparisons aren't accurate. Apples to oranges.
Yeah we'll see where Turn 10 goes later in the console life cycle. It'd be nice if they implemented dynamic lighting into the next installment.
I don't expect it to go to 60fps, true. But then again I never expected it to. It was first stated they were going to go for 30fps back when it was revealed, and I've been expecting that the whole time.
This is going to be a PGR type game, not a sim game, and PGR type games have been known to run at 30fps. If this was a Gran Turismo game running at 30fps that would be a different story.
What I do expect is a good jump in visual fidelity. Now, if they really get pushed to go after 60fps, maybe the raw jump in graphical quality won't be as great as they've had in the past.
The goal posts have been moved out of the stadium by some...lol
I'm hoping we get as many 60fps games as is possible across the consoles. I have my PC for Ultra settings and downsampled 1080p play.
Oppo
Member
If the game doesn't move fast then I would rather it looked better than ran faster. I really don't care if the likes of XCOM or LA Noire run at 60 FPS. In those cases, if there was a noticeable improvement to the graphic quality because of a 30 FPS rate then I would say absolutely the gameplay has improved, because of it.
Faster games, sure 60 FPS is nice. But it is not universally needed.
I would prefer if games targeted a range between 30, 48, and 60 FPS depending on the genre.
Expect the same amount as we've seen in the last few generations. Part of people's disappointment is rooted in unrealistic expectations for the console space.
ReaperXL07 said:
Carmack was absolutely right, but many thought that this time things would be different.