Why can't the industry give us more games like TLoU?

I always thought cinematic was an overabundance of cutscenes with a limited amount of control and gameplay.

Now cinematic just seems to mean anything with a cutscene.
 
Lack of great writers/great VA directors and/or a perceived lack of players who want emotive story-telling(true or otherwise). That's what really sets The Last of Us apart from the countless other setpiece action games. Elsewhere we have David Cage, Cliffy B, David Jaffe, guys like that. Dudes not without talent, but either incapable of or disinterested in great writing.
 
Druckmann's story writing is the best in the industry imo.

Currently it absolutely is the best. I would even call TLoU a landmark title for the industry. Every single part of the process is mindbogglingly on point.

I always thought cinematic was an overabundance of cutscenes with a limited amount of control and gameplay.

Now cinematic just seems to mean anything with a cutscene.

People that reduce TLoU in such a manner are nothing but cynical fucks. Frankly I don't even bother acknowledging their existence.
 
I always thought cinematic was an overabundance of cutscenes with a limited amount of control and gameplay.

Now cinematic just seems to mean anything with a cutscene.

Its become more or less of a buzzword or people to mindlessly hate on a genre.

People often misjudge games that offer a cinematic experience by immediately assuming the gameplay is "shit" since there are quite a few cinematic games that offer barebones gameplay like The Walking Dead and Heavy Rain. But honestly for those types of games, if you were walking in expecting a platformer or shooter, you are playing the games for the wrong reasons. Cinematic adventure games like the above are solid acceptable games for their genre, and just because their gameplay is barebones doesn't make it shit since the emphasis was more or less narrative.


Then something like The Last of Us comes walking along and gives you amazing gameplay coupled with a formidable cinematic experience. I see people still crying that the gameplay is shit (either it doesn't appeal to them or they are trolling since I never see many people going into specific reasons why they don't like it besides saying "triangle to put up plank/ladder, derp cinematic", or they are dismissing the games as the uneducated prics they are before playing the game). and complaining about cinematic experiences.

Just saying, just because a game is cinematic, doesn't mean that the gameplay is bad. In the case of TLoU gameplay is just as solid as the narrative.

I've run into quite a few people dismissing games like TLoU simply for the offering a cinematic experience along. Its their loss if they actually believe the game lacks solid gameplay in addition to a good narrative and cutscenes as they couldn't bother to educate themselves of the game beforehand.
 
People that reduce TLoU in such a manner are nothing but cynical fucks. Frankly I don't even bother acknowledging their existence.

Well that's harsh. Dunno why the idea that people finds TLoU to be a pretty cinematic game, is so crazy. There's a heavy emphasis on story, cutscenes, it's a linear game that gives the player no choice in how the story unfolds, during gameplay the pace is often slowed to a virtual crawl, either in order to provide some character interactions. Or because you need to do some mundane task such as carry a ladder or boost someone up a ledge for the hundredth time.

My friend from whom I borrowed the game kinda described the game well imo. He bassically said he really wanted to see the cutscenes again, but didn't really want to play the game. And I kinda agree.
 
Even projects with a ton of talent can go incredibly wrong with just a single problem: bad leadership, a management decree, poor design early on, too little time, unfocused development, the list goes on and on.

Anyone who's worked on a substantial, team-created piece of art or programming knows that there's always a little bit of "I can't believe this actually worked out okay" by the end of it, and that it takes a really exceptional team to skirt the problems.
 
Naughty Dog can only give us so many games! Other studios have to catch up, I'm sure some will exceed our expectations in time
 
Personally I prefer games that put more emphasis on gameplay mechanics....

The gameplay I've seen for TLOU doesn't look that amazing tbh.
 
The industry already does. The last of us doesnt really do anything we haven't seen before in games, especially if you've played other survival shooters like metro 2033. The level design is nothing special on top of that.

Its a good crowd pleaser with a good story, but acting like its some kind of landmark is foolhardy. Its like the people saying inception deserved oscars.
 
Personally I prefer games that put more emphasis on gameplay mechanics....

The gameplay I've seen for TLOU doesn't look that amazing tbh.

It really isn't if you play the game stealthy. Enemies are virtually asleep until you fuck up and they discover you. Even then, it's very easy to lose them, putting them back in sleep mode.
 
Personally I prefer games that put more emphasis on gameplay mechanics....

The gameplay I've seen for TLOU doesn't look that amazing tbh.

But it fits the game perfectly...

What do you expect? Joel to fly high into the sky with a super jump and do some big ass sword attack onto clickers?

The gameplay fits the game perfectly and I honestly cant see what else can be done.

Sure the gameplay doesn't feel or look that new ( easily some of the best combat when melee and hand to hand is involved IMO, so damn brutal), but the gameplay IS SOLID and well made and again, fits the tone of the game perfectly.
 
Well that's harsh. Dunno why the idea that people finds TLoU to be a pretty cinematic game, is so crazy. There's a heavy emphasis on story, cutscenes, it's a linear game that gives the player no choice in how the story unfolds, during gameplay the pace is often slowed to a virtual crawl, either in order to provide some character interactions. Or because you need to do some mundane task such as carry a ladder.

My friend from whom I borrowed the game kinda described the game well imo. He bassically said he really wanted to see the cutscenes again, but didn't really want to play the game. And I kinda agree.

I guess that would fall more into whether or not the gameplay appealed to your tastes. I've seen a few threads and posts on GAF where people just thought the gameplay was getting in the way of the story. One who was playing on easy and still couldn't finish the game because it was too difficult for him/her, and people came to the logical conclusion to just recommend him to watch a walkthrough on youtube instead of playing through the game.

It honestly depends on the person, because to me I find that the narrative and cutscenes are a good compliment to the gameplay. Of course the story is whats pushing me through the game, but the intense stealth and gunfights can be too intense or intrusive to some people (like the person who I mentioned above) who play the game and it may even get in the way of enjoying the amazing story.

But dismissing the gameplay just because the game offers a cinematic experience is what I think is a problem. It is understandable if someone is trying to enjoy the cinematic experience but can't handle the genre of stealth/survival third-person-shooter or action adventure, but I think that as a game, they shouldn't be playing it in the first place if that is the case.
 
Also calling it a "landmark" game and it just came out? Come on now the hyperbole is starting to become a little much




Give it 2-3 years before we kno if devs start copying it
 
The industry already does. The last of us doesnt really do anything we haven't seen before in games, especially if you've played other survival shooters like metro 2033. The level design is nothing special on top of that.

Its a good crowd pleaser with a good story, but acting like its some kind of landmark is foolhardy. Its like the people saying inception deserved oscars.

Oh boy... What have you done?

On topic: I still need to play TLoU, but I think industry has enough games like it, or at least enough games that try to be like it, as far as I've seem... I mean, I'm gonna say this based on the experience I had with the Uncharted series, don't blame me I'm not criticizing TLoU, but I'd say we have enough of it. Lots of games nowadays go for the linear, story focused, filled with cinematic scripted sections. Even though most of them can't really compete with what Naughty Dog does. Still... I think we already have enough of those games.
 
It really isn't if you play the game stealthy. Enemies are virtually asleep until you fuck up and they discover you. Even then, it's very easy to lose them, putting them back in sleep mode.

That's hardly the case when you mention sleep mode. They will still actively look for you and patrol the area even if they think you are far gone off. If you say the AI defaults to its original pattern, then what else did you expect? If it followed you to the ends of the area even though you successfully out manuevered them, gamers would be complaining that the AI is too difficult and ridiculous.

For example, I was spotted at a house when I began strangling a enemy on a stealth run ( a poor decision when I began getting shot at and the AI became aware of where I was hiding and began to position itself around the house to corner the hiding spot). To cut my losses, rather than standing my ground, given my lack of resources and health, it would be better to abandon the area by jumping out the window rather than trying to fight them off. So I did. The AI noticed that I dashed out of my cover, but didn't notice that I leapt out of the window since they technically couldn't see it from their angle. So they began searching the house and eventually left the house and went back into regular patrol (but by venturing to the other side of the outside yard as it was a area that was yet to be patrolled by the AI. I would hardly call it sleep mode, but the AI has for some people done strange things from some of the videos I have seen, and I expect it to have its share of flaws, but from what I've seen this is a decent job at video game AI for humans.
 
I guess that would fall more into whether or not the gameplay appealed to your tastes. I've seen a few threads and posts on GAF where people just thought the gameplay was getting in the way of the story. One who was playing on easy and still couldn't finish the game because it was too difficult for him/her, and people came to the logical conclusion to just recommend him to watch a walkthrough on youtube instead of playing through the game.

It honestly depends on the person, because to me I find that the narrative and cutscenes are a good compliment to the gameplay. Of course the story is whats pushing me through the game, but the intense stealth and gunfights can be too intense or intrusive to some people (like the person who I mentioned above) who play the game and it may even get in the way of enjoying the amazing story.

But dismissing the gameplay just because the game offers a cinematic experience is what I think is a problem. It is understandable if someone is trying to enjoy the cinematic experience but can't handle the genre of stealth/survival third-person-shooter or action adventure, but I think that as a game, they shouldn't be playing it in the first place if that is the case.

Of course it depends on if that gameplay found in TLoU appeals to you. And I can absolutely see the gameplay being very brutal if you're not very good at playing the game stealthy ( though I do have a hard to to see how being stealthy is hard in the game :P )

I just don't feel like the gameplay portion of the game is very good. The pacing is way to slow because everything takes forever. From boosting characters up ledges a thousand time over( and over water for that matter ), having to walk very slowly while an npc is talking ( essentially a cutscene they didn't bother making a cutscene imo ), the act of taking down a person stealthy, basic traversal from point a to b at some points in the game.

There are of course more things than that. But overall I really feel like the gameplay was made, not to be as fun as it could be. But to match the story and tone of the game. As well as pace of the cutscenes. As a result, you get gameplay where the cutscenes and gameplay feel very similar. But for me that just means that the gameplay ends feeling not that fun.
 
So we need more invisible wall linear shooters with scripted enemies that wait for you?

No thanks, I'll take another Heavy Rain / Walking Dead anyday, both of those games had a real narrative.
 
TLoU is the intersection of various aspects of modern gaming being refined over the course of the generation and a developer with the necessary time/resources/reputation.

It's approach to encounter design isn't a landmark. It is great though and should be a standard for all games, no matter the genre — not every segment starts with a cutscene and the solution to a given situation isn't always spelled out for the player. TLoU's components are not fundamentally different than those of most AAA current-gen linear games, but they are all refined, treated with some care.

The game is cinematic, but without sacrificing compelling gameplay. The whole package is the result of myriad factors and blame can't really be placed on any on issue, strain of thought or group. A shift in the industry's priorities could lead to more games like this though; not going after the lowest-common denominator, not pouring budget into parts of a game that don't contribute meaningfully to the overall experience, Etc.
 
The industry has been giving us games like TLOU this whole generation, and TLOU is simply the culmination of all that work. I don't feel it pushes forward games as a medium any more than Gears of War did. It's a third person action game with a really well told story, and a slight spin on the same old cover based mechanics we've seen time and time again over the past few years. It's really well made, but I don't think it brings much new to the table other than something to aspire to in terms of production quality and writing (even then, the story is kind of predictable).

Took the words right out of my mouth. Certainly an impressive game, but there seems to be quite a bit of hyperbole leftover from release.
 
Cause some people dont like shooters? Cause people look for the things you mentioned in actual movies? Cause ND is overrated?
 
Neil Druckmann.

The gaming industry just needs to clone Neil Druckmann.

I've watched and listened to a lot of his interviews on various podcasts along with TLoU documentary, and the guy really knows his stuff. He wrote an amazing story, assembled a fantastic cast of performers, and was in the mocap studio directing everything and making sure every scene was perfect.
 
TLOU is a damn masterpiece. You've got to have at least one genius (probably many) working on a game to deliver something that good. It's better than 90% of movies from a narrative standpoint.
It's certainly better than most of the films I've watched in theatres over the last 10 years or so. Since I've been of "going to the theatres" age and all.
 
Because the industry follows this business plan:
Q: "Was your game a hit?"

if Y:
"Great! Clear your calendars for the next 5 years. Your next 2+ projects are to make that game again."

if N (or sometimes slightly before an answer is even given):
"You're fired."
 
The Last of Us is great and all, but I'd rather have more games focused on great gameplay above all else, like the games made by Platinum or From Software. Not saying Last of Us doesn't have good gameplay, but it's way more interested in telling a story. But I'd honestly just watch a movie if I want a good story.
 
Yup I never would have imagined I'd be able to hear Troy Baker yelling the name Sarah again without wanting to kill something.

And by that I mean Naughty Dog got talent.
 
Not all development teams are given the creative freedom by their respective publisher to make a game like this on their accord, with most likely I would imagine a nice enough budget.

Plus, it probably helps that Naughty Dog are one of the most talented devs in the world too and probably SCE's most important software development studio. I would also imagine that SCE don't want to confine them to be only making Uncharted titles for eternity either or else they could possibly have a Bungie-like situation on their hands.
 
It's certainly better than most of the films I've watched in theatres over the last 10 years or so. Since I've been of "going to the theatres" age and all.

TLOU is a damn masterpiece. You've got to have at least one genius (probably many) working on a game to deliver something that good. It's better than 90% of movies from a narrative standpoint.

These are both jokes right? You dont honestly believe these things?
 
Of course it depends on if that gameplay found in TLoU appeals to you. And I can absolutely see the gameplay being very brutal if you're not very good at playing the game stealthy ( though I do have a hard to to see how being stealthy is hard in the game :P )

I just don't feel like the gameplay portion of the game is very good. The pacing is way to slow because everything takes forever. From boosting characters up ledges a thousand time over( and over water for that matter ), having to walk very slowly while an npc is talking ( essentially a cutscene they didn't bother making a cutscene imo ), the act of taking down a person stealthy, basic traversal from point a to b at some points in the game.

There are of course more things than that. But overall I really feel like the gameplay was made, not to be as fun as it could be. But to match the story and tone of the game. As well as pace of the cutscenes. As a result, you get gameplay where the cutscenes and gameplay feel very similar. But for me that just means that the gameplay ends feeling not that fun.

The problem is that taking out those elements and making the gameplay less intrusive without the slowed down segments to talk or walk would conflict with pacing. What you are essentially asking for is that the cinematic experience be focused completely in the cutscenes alone which I believe would conflict directly with the quality of the game and be more similar to how Uncharted plays by explaining most cinematic things with cutscenes(with the exception of the puzzle slowdowns).

And I don't think the pacing directly takes a hit from the gameplay. Its rather the speed at which you complete it at. Sure you can nitpick small things like the overabuse of boosting,ladders, or the water segments where you carried ellie, but thats all trivial. In all fairness, there were only a handful of times that you ran into water (5 times), but Naughty Dog did try to reduce fatigue by making it less point a to b by making you think how to actually get through.
such as the one point where you got to find the float from the sunken cabin or go through the gate to drop the float/skid from a area. Yes it was more or less point a to b, but there was more to gameplay than just those basic things. Sure its not the regular stealth/gunfights you run into and they are more or less simple point a to b puzzles compared to the likes of Uncharted, but I wouldn't consider them mindless filler as it does require some line of thought to actually figure out where this goes unless you are simply following hints and advice.

Some sections can be for stealth point a to b, but I can argue otherwise. Its not as if the game forces you to choose stealth. It allows you to mix up elements to choose to play your way. If you are tempted to fall in with stealth first and foremost and follow through by complaining that its simply point a to b, you are wrong. I don't consider it point a to b when you are essentially following a waypoint or AI to take down an opponent at a location where other AI won't get in your way. Timing comes into play. Furthermore, watching the AI patterns and drawing them away with bottles and bricks is another method of changing the mix. I hardly consider it point a to b.
 
Each to their own man. People are going to have different views than you.

This is a discussion board. If someone claims that the last of us is better than a decade's worth of movies I'm gonna ask exactly what movies they do enjoy.

Because frankly, the last of us was good, but there are films that are far better written. The last of us' writing seems to be getting overly praised because its a video game and when compared to other forms of art it doesnt really stand out.
 
Each to their own man. People are going to have different views than you.

Exactly. I don't see why some people can't comprehend or respect that others think that a video game can offer a better cinematic experience than most feature feature length films. Its their opinion.
 
Exactly. I don't see why some people can't comprehend or respect that others think that a video game can offer a better cinematic experience than most feature feature length films. Its their opinion.

Why do you think I have a problem with video game storytelling as a whole? I never said that.

I'm talking about specifically this one game.
 
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