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[Snowden's Secret]

And instead, they played it safe and went with Donkey Kong again. That's not to say that those expecting Metroid or StarTropics or a new IP or what have you have a particularly strong leg to stand on, but I do somewhat dislike the emerging sentiment that anyone who is disappointed that Retro's title is Donkey Kong is some fool that doesn't appreciate good gaming and/or doesn't understand the sales game.

Seeing the same backlash to the Mario 3D Land sequel and the DKCR sequel, which other developers receive this level of hype backlash when they announce the (first) sequel to a game that is both a critical and commercial success?

Anyone?

Remember, it has to be the first sequel, and the original game had to have both sold well and reviewed well, and yet the developers were expected to have done anything other than a direct sequel.

EDIT: Will there be a thread "Naughty Dog working on fucking The Last of Us" if/when a sequel is announced?

 

[Tookay]

Seeing the same backlash to the Mario 3D Land sequel and the DKCR sequel, which other developers receive this level of hype backlash when they announce the (first) sequel to a game that is both a critical and commercial success?

Anyone?

Remember, it has to be the first sequel, and the original game had to have both sold well and reviewed well, and yet the developers were expected to have done anything other than a direct sequel.

Situation isn't comparable and doesn't really discredit his point.

3D Land and DKCR scratched an itch: one to see how a 3D platformer could be compartmentalized on a handheld and the other to see a classic 2D series could be revived. They were reviewed well and seemed to be enjoyed by their audience; however, I'd make the argument that for a lot of forumgoers (and maybe a portion of the mass market as well), their critical/commercial acclaim wasn't a call for turning them into franchises.

When you consider Nintendo's scarcity of resources (the talented teams working on these necessarily cannot be working on something else) and the level of these teams' previously demonstrated ambition in titles like SMG and MP, it isn't hard to see why one would be disappointed, as a gamer. Maybe it makes some sense at a business-level, but as I argued in a previous post, I'm not sure that's true either.

 

[Freezie KO]

Seeing the same backlash to the Mario 3D Land sequel and the DKCR sequel, which other developers receive this level of hype backlash when they announce the (first) sequel to a game that is both a critical and commercial success?

Anyone?

Remember, it has to be the first sequel, and the original game had to have both sold well and reviewed well, and yet the developers were expected to have done anything other than a direct sequel.

This is the 5th Donkey Kong Country game, not the 2nd. And 3D World is the 6th 3D Mario game.

 

[spekkeh]

We will see, can't say both ways. But considering what would be most probable a system seller between DK and Metroid, I think we know the answer. =)

You mean Metroid right?

I'm going to go PS4 next cycle because of Unfinished Swan, Flower, Journey, Uncharted and The Last of Us. I haven't, nor am actually ever going to buy those games, as they're not even for the PS4. These games are more important for generating a certain feeling for a brand. Other case in point of course Killzone. I don't think a single game in that series ever made money.

Metroid is more important for a console's mindshare than the upteenth 2D platformer, even one as awesome as DKCR. Anyway, I still think Metroid Prime was a large reason the GameCube survived even though it only sold 2.5 million.

 

[Hakai]

This is the 5th Donkey Kong Country game, not the 2nd. And 3D World is the 6th 3D Mario game.

In how many years?

You mean Metroid right?

I'm going to go PS4 next cycle because of Unfinished Swan, Flower, Journey, Uncharted and The Last of Us. I haven't, nor am actually ever going to buy those games, as they're not even for the PS4. These games are more important for generating a certain feeling for a brand. Other case in point of course Killzone. I don't think a single game in that series ever made money.

Metroid is more important for a console's mindshare than the upteenth 2D platformer, even one as awesome as DKCR. Anyway, I still think Metroid Prime was a large reason the GameCube survived even though it only sold 2.5 million.

It is a bold assumption, but how can you prove the point in it?

And I disagree, DKCR did not only sell well onto the Wii, the remake sold very well in the 3DS too. It is a game that sells great, it has great quality and replayability, people seems to like it. So how can Metroid do more to the market share?

 

[Freezie KO]

In how many years?

Immaterial. You can't call either game "the first sequel."

 

[Snowden's Secret]

This is the 5th Donkey Kong Country game, not the 2nd. And 3D World is the 6th 3D Mario game.

We aren't really going to play semantics games, are we? 3D World would have been the 6th 3D Mario game regardless of what form that took, but the criticism is not that it is 3D Mario but this specific flavor of 3D Mario.

And the 5th Donkey Kong Country game, but only the second from this developer, and only the second in three generations. Where is the thread "343 Studios working on fucking Halo" when the Halo announced at E3 will be the seventh Halo game?

It's just that standards are different. I can understand a mild disappointment, especially if DKC isn't your thing, but we're way off the map here.

 

[Artorias]

You mean Metroid right?

I'm going to go PS4 next cycle because of Unfinished Swan, Flower, Journey, Uncharted and The Last of Us. I haven't, nor am actually ever going to buy those games, as they're not even for the PS4. These games are more important for generating a certain feeling for a brand. Other case in point of course Killzone. I don't think a single game in that series ever made money.

Metroid is more important for a console's mindshare than the upteenth 2D platformer, even one as awesome as DKCR. Anyway, I still think Metroid Prime was a large reason the GameCube survived even though it only sold 2.5 million.

Wait, you literally think Metroid is more of a system seller than DKC because...feelings.

Interesting.

 

[Tookay]

You mean Metroid right?

I'm going to go PS4 next cycle because of Unfinished Swan, Flower, Journey, Uncharted and The Last of Us. I haven't, nor am actually ever going to buy those games, as they're not even for the PS4. These games are more important for generating a certain feeling for a brand. Other case in point of course Killzone. I don't think a single game in that series ever made money.

Metroid is more important for a console's mindshare than the upteenth 2D platformer, even one as awesome as DKCR. Anyway, I still think Metroid Prime was a large reason the GameCube survived even though it only sold 2.5 million.

There is something to be said about prestige titles and diversifying your lineup, even if you know some have the possibility of bombing. Some Hollywood studios do this, and Sony frequently engages in this as well, with Team Ico (okay, maybe that's not a good example anymore), thatgamecompany, and their decision to allow Naughty Dog make TLOU when an annualized Uncharted would have probably made/saved them more money. Putting all your eggs in one basket makes sense in the short-term, from a business level, but that it ignores the kind of mindshare erosion that's occurs when you do so.

That said, I don't think MP was even close to being a reason the GCN survived, even if it wasn't as big of a bomb as people make it out to be. I do think it's a reason why the system lives on fondly in many diehards' hearts though (which is almost as important for Nintendo's brand).

 

[ArynCrinn]

Anybody who can watch this and not be blown away by the level design and imagine Tropical Freeze possibly being even better. All while Dave Wise is humming in your ear, and hopefully a competitive leaderboard. If you can't dig that for leveraging the talent of Retro....well then your just not gamer enough for me.

 

[Hakai]

There is something to be said about prestige titles and diversifying your lineup, even if you know some have the possibility of bombing. Some Hollywood studios do this, and Sony frequently engages in this as well, with Team Ico (okay, maybe that's not a good example anymore), thatgamecompany, and their decision to allow Naughty Dog make TLOU when an annualized Uncharted would have probably made/saved them more money. Putting all your eggs in one basket makes sense in the short-term, from a business level, but that it ignores the kind of mindshare erosion that's occurs when you do so.

So you forget about W101,Bayonetta and Pikmin 3 for no apparent reason?

Immaterial. You can't call either game "the first sequel."

Really? You really want to play semantics?

 

[Snowden's Secret]

You mean Metroid right?

I'm going to go PS4 next cycle because of Unfinished Swan, Flower, Journey, Uncharted and The Last of Us. I haven't, nor am actually ever going to buy those games, as they're not even for the PS4. These games are more important for generating a certain feeling for a brand. Other case in point of course Killzone. I don't think a single game in that series ever made money.

This post seems relevant to my Game of the Year Bait thread.

 

[marc^o^]

There is something to be said about prestige titles and diversifying your lineup

I think you're right, and that's the whole point of securing The Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2.

 

[Brickhunt]

I don't care what the system needs. I care what I as a gamer need - and that's DKC:Tropical Freeze RIGHT NOW!

Have fun playing your imaginary console wars league, instead.

Good to see you care more about the games themselves than their sales. But I do like to think NeoGAF is open to more than just game appreciation and likes to discuss the impact of console sales in what kind of games get released.

 

[SuperSah]

I'm happy it's a new DKC.

I love DKCR3D.

 

[YouEnjoyMySelf]

Not really sure what's going on in this thread now, you Nintendo guys really go at it.

I'm playing DKCR right now for the first time and I'm really liking it. I'm mainly PS+PC these days but this game is damn good. I'm sure this game will be quality as well.

 

[Tookay]

So you forget about W101,Bayonetta and Pikmin 3 for no apparent reason?

What's with the defensive hostility? It's super obnoxious.

I haven't forgotten them.

It's just that I'd prefer some of Nintendo's big A-teams (the guys behind SMG and MP) get the same chance to participate in that prestige game as well. Again.

It's comparable to the way Sony let their big A-team (Naughty Dog) get a chance to make TLOU, when making another Uncharted would have saved them money on marketing to create brand awareness (because it would have already been there) and would have sold reliably more off that established awareness.

Or, as a counter-example, look at the sales deflation and forum negativity surrounding Sony's chaining of its Santa Monica studio to GoW into perpetuity, especially with GoW: Acension. As a result, people are feeling burned out on one series (GoW), and are likely refreshed for another (Uncharted) because one had better brand management. And, as a reward for Sony's leniency with Naughty Dog, they've gained a possible franchise in TLOU to balance out any future fatigue with Uncharted (or anything else in their first-party lineup).

 

[Wensih]

I'm fine with this. It'd be cool if Retro does a DKC trilogy and then moves onto something else.

 

[jts]

I'm fine with this. It'd be cool if Retro does a DKC trilogy and then moves onto something else.

Yep. Looking forward to it.

 

[Hakai]

What's with the defensive hostility? It's super obnoxious.

I haven't forgotten them.

It's just that I'd prefer some of Nintendo's big A-teams (the guys behind SMB and MP) to get the same chance to participate in that prestige game opportunity as well. Again.

It's comparable to the way Sony let their big A-team (Naughty Dog) get a chance to make TLOU, when making another Uncharted would have saved them money on marketing to create brand awareness (because it would have already been there) and would have sold reliably more off that established awareness.

Or, as a counter-example, look at the deflation and negativity surrounding Sony's chaining of its Santa Monica studio to GoW into perpetuity, especially with GoW: Acension. As a result, people are feeling burned out on one series (GoW), and are likely refreshed for another Uncharted; or Sony can make TLOU a series as well. In the process, they've gained one franchise to balance out fatigue if they want.

Sorry, but I didn't mean to be hostile. I was just debuking your point.

There is an A Team doing Pikmin, which is pretty much a niche title, so it happens. Retro are on their second Nintendo IP so I don't think burn out would apply here, also Nintendo don't do yearly releases, and normally it is one iteration of the game per generation.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Not really sure what's going on in this thread now, you Nintendo guys really go at it.

I'm playing DKCR right now for the first time and I'm really liking it. I'm mainly PS+PC these days but this game is damn good. I'm sure this game will be quality as well.

I don't think anyone doubts that this will be a good game. But considering this is new Nintendo hardware, I imagine many people were expecting a little bit more than map packs for a last gen DK, handheld Mario or some Wii Fit recycling. At least one try at a new franchise, or the usual evolution within their known franchises, wouldn't have hurt anyone among all the boring safe bets like this game. This game, or any other, also don't really show off why we ever needed that 100$ controller.

 

[walking fiend]

I don't care about what the more probable system seller would be. That wasn't the point I was trying to make

Mario's already coming out this holiday to push console sales along with other software . I want a non-platforming experience aside from W101. I'm not disappointed in DKCR2 at all. Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't have minded as much if it were their secondary Wii U title. I just want more non-platforming titles for the Wii U and I believe Retro could have brought something to the table other than DKCR2.

There are literally hundreds of shooters out there, how many 3D platformet?

 

[Keyouta]

I don't know what the point was of keeping Retro's title a secret. Apparently they were going to show it off last year but it was pulled the last second. The game is nothing special, though it will of course be a good game both critically and successfully.

 

[walking fiend]

I don't think anyone doubts that this will be a good game. But considering this is new Nintendo hardware, I imagine many people were expecting a little bit more than map packs for a last gen DK, handheld Mario or some Wii Fit recycling. At least one try at a new franchise, or the usual evolution within their known franchises, wouldn't have hurt anyone among all the boring safe bets like this game. This game, or any other, also don't really show off why we ever needed that 100$ controller.

For off-tv play. And boring? Oh god, have you even watched trailers, let alone playig the game.

Sorry for dp

 

[Linkhero1]

There are literally hundreds of shooters out there, how many 3D platformet?

And? Are you implying Metroid Prime fits under the same umbrella as CoD and Battlefield?

I would have preferred Metroid Prime to DKCR2, Star Tropics (lol) to DKCR2, or a new IP to DKCR2 at this point in time.

 

[RawkHawk2010]

Have people clamoring for a new Metroid ever stopped to think that maybe it's not happening because no one knows what on earth to do with it?

http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/17/kensuke-tanabe-metroid-tingle/

Kelbaugh and Tabata immediately thought of ways of using the GamePad to display information to the player – like incorporating the suit’s HUD elements on the controller’s touchscreen — and for minigames, such as turning Samus’s ball-morphing ability into a pinball-like game.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/e3-2013-nintendo-retro-discuss-future-of-metroid

"Basically I’m thinking of, not just Samus, but how we can expand the whole Samus universe," Tanabe said. "You remember Metroid Prime Hunters. I’m thinking about things like how we could make that go out further, with all these different bounty hunters as well."

When a thread was made about Retro and Tanabe's thoughts on this hypothetical "new Metroid", everyone groaned and talked about how fucking terrible all of these ideas were. So why are people so dead-set on having Retro tethered to Metroid when everything points to them having no creative spark for it whatsoever (especially when a fair number of people already hated their last brush with the series anyway?)

Why keep Retro from doing something they not only really want to do but also have oogles of fantastic ideas for?

 

[Tookay]

Sorry, but I didn't mean to be hostile. I was just debuking your point.

There is an A Team doing Pikmin, which is pretty much a niche title, so it happens. Retro are on their second Nintendo IP so I don't think burn out would apply here, also Nintendo don't do yearly releases, and normally it is one iteration of the game per generation.

Pikmin 3 might be a fair example as a prestige/niche title from a Nintendo A-team, but I don't know if one game is capable of debunking my entire point.

It's the fact that studios the caliber of EAD Tokyo and Retro (who are capable of games of greater ambition) are stuck playing it safe with (supposedly) reliable sellers that has people annoyed. The business rationalization seems very plain: these games sold well on other systems, so they'll help this one out. But I think the market is very different for Wii U and they won't enjoy the kind of wild success Nintendo is banking on, particularly because the novelty was a big factor for said previous success.

 

[EagleEyes]

Anybody know if DKC: Tropical Freeze is gonna support the Wii U Pro controller? I'm playing through NSMBU with it right now and it feels so good.

 

[marc^o^]

I imagine many people were expecting a little bit more than map packs for a last gen DK, handheld Mario or some Wii Fit recycling.

That's not all they have, it's not a map pack, Mario 3D World is not a handheld game and giving a WiiFit sequel to a 40 millon balance board userbase is common sense. I'm sure you know that already, I remember you from a Mario 3D world thread where you got dozens of facts countering that same handheld argument.

 

[Tookay]

Have people clamoring for a new Metroid ever stopped to think that maybe it's not happening because no one knows what on earth to do with it?

It's analgous to Miyamoto not knowing "what to do" with F-Zero either, when all people really want is another solid iteration in HD to bring some diversity to Nintendo's lineup. It doesn't need a gimmick or a hook.

 

[Linkhero1]

Have people clamoring for a new Metroid ever stopped to think that maybe it's not happening because no one knows what on earth to do with it?

http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/17/kensuke-tanabe-metroid-tingle/



http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/e3-2013-nintendo-retro-discuss-future-of-metroid



When a thread was made about Retro and Tanabe's thoughts on this hypothetical "new Metroid", everyone groaned and talked about how fucking terrible all of these ideas were. So why are people so dead-set on having Retro tethered to Metroid when everything points to them having no creative spark for it whatsoever (especially when a fair number of people already hated their last brush with the series anyway?)

Why keep Retro from doing something they not only really want to do but also have oogles of fantastic ideas for?

Eh. This is the same company that doesn't want to make a new F-Zero because "they don't know what to do with it." Retro doesn't have to make Metroid, but I don't want Metroid to disappear. I'm sure if they can constantly figure out things to do with Mario they can do the same for Metroid. I'm not crazy when I say this but I would have gladly taken a Star Fox game over DKCR2 at this point in time.

 

[w1gglyjones]

No sorry. I wrote that they announced 3 new games for 2013 outside the launch window games. A Zelda remake. A 2D platformer. A 3D platformer.

You mentioning W101 doesn't count as it was a launch window games. Wii Party U or whatever could be considered a fourth, I guess...

But Nintendo has only really announced the Zelda remake, a 2D platfrmr, a 3D platfrmr and a mini-game/party-game joint as new games for 2013.

That's their output.

 

[flattie]

In how many years?



It is a bold assumption, but how can you prove the point in it?

And I disagree, DKCR did not only sell well onto the Wii, the remake sold very well in the 3DS too. It is a game that sells great, it has great quality and replayability, people seems to like it. So how can Metroid do more to the market share?

It certainly did, but wasn't it to an audience of >80m, as opposed to MP3 which was somewhere between 15-20m at the time of release? Proportionally speaking, they don't look too different from where I'm sat - if anything, MP3 has the edge.

I'm not offering this as some exact or perfect proof, just adding a little context to suggest that comparing absolute sales of these two games would provide very little instruction to somebody having to make a financially based assessment of which style of game would be the better option in 2013 on the Wii U.

 

[evilromero]

This sentiment might not have emerged if we didn't have people treating anything less than Metroid Prime 4 or a hardcore new Western IP as "beneath" Retro's talents as though we didn't have this discussion 3 years ago with DKCR, claiming that DKCTF is a quickly rushed out sequel despite there being more time between it and DCKR than MP1 and MP2, that Retro has been "demoted to Monster Games status" because they're working on a sequel to one of their most successful titles, threads about "working on fucking Donkey Kong," and people seriously arguing that 2D platformers like DKCR are easy to make and anybody could make it, just press some buttons and development happens, yo!

I can totally understand the disappointment, but a shit ton of people then (less so now) were and are acting like this game was a personal insult to them.

Nobody on this side of the fence is taking Retro's new game as an insult I'm sorry to report. I actually feel it's the other way around. Apologists can't come to grips with why a vocal majority of Nintendo fans are bothered by their decision to make a new DKCR game, rather than something eyepopping, which at this juncture in the Wii U's lifecycle is completely expected. The Wii's second fall had Prime 3 and Galaxy, two games that catered to both Nintendo fans and the core audience. There is no doubt in my mind Tropical Freeze will be a good game, possibly great. But your assertion that critics are taking this development as an insult is really poorly misdirected.

 

[Tom_Cody]

With Nintendo's recent 2D success (NSMB/DKR), what are the chances that the next Metroid will be AAA 2D on the Wii U.

I don't know why this only just hit me, but wouldn't wouldn't New Super Metroid make much more sense than Prime 4? After-all, we are getting DKR2 instead of DK65.

I love the Prime series, but I would kill for a AAA 2D Metroid on the Wii U.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Nobody on this side of the fence is taking Retro's new game as an insult I'm sorry to report. I actually feel it's the other way around. Apologists can't come to grips with why a vocal majority of Nintendo fans are bothered by their decision to make a new DKCR game, rather than something eyepopping, which at this juncture in the Wii U's lifecycle is completely expected. The Wii's second fall had Prime 3 and Galaxy, two games that catered to both Nintendo fans and the core audience. There is no doubt in my mind Tropical Freeze will be a good game, possibly great. But your assertion that critics are taking this development as an insult is really poorly misdirected.

No, I'm pretty sure I'm right on this.

 

[RawkHawk2010]

Anybody know if DKC: Tropical Freeze is gonna support the Wii U Pro controller? I'm playing through NSMBU with it right now and it feels so good.

We don't know officially. All the Retro/Nintendo people said they "couldn't talk about the control schemes" like there's some gameplay-altering secret to the Gamepad controls they don't want to spoil yet or something.

Luckily though with NSMBU we know patching is a thing. So if for some bizarre reason it's not included, Nintendo will see all the angry Miiverse posts soon enough...

 

[w1gglyjones]

Okay, so I've thought about this a bit. And I'm thinking about it from this perspective.

What are the games that Nintendo would like to sell to generate word of mouth about the Wii U? Specifically, if you look at so called "hardcore/AAA/mature" games would releasing one or two this holiday attract the audiences that Nintendo would like to start their word of mouth campaign... or would it be a DKC game and a 3D Mario local multiplayer game?

I think it's the latter. And I think word of mouth from audiences that purchase those games would be more important to Nintendo than the group of players who would buy a Metroid game (especially since many of those are people like us who already know about the Wii U). Bringing a game like Metroid in 2014 would not hurt Nintendo as much, I think. And that's when it seems other hardcore games like Bayo2 and Xenowhatever are coming out.

We don't know officially. All the Retro/Nintendo people said they "couldn't talk about the control schemes" like there's some gameplay-altering secret to the Gamepad controls they don't want to spoil yet or something.

Luckily though with NSMBU we know patching is a thing. So if for some bizarre reason it's not included, Nintendo will see all the angry Miiverse posts soon enough...

The controller situation is a mess. Nintendo should have been more firm and organized. Lack of Wiimote IR pointer controls in Revelations was such a disappointment.

 

[Tookay]

No, I'm pretty sure I'm right on this.

Can't you both be, to a certain degree? This kind of shit happens in waves: the initial unrealistic expectations, hype implosion, and derision from pie-in-the-sky dreamers, followed later by the too-defensive apologists/MBAs?

 

[evilromero]

Have people clamoring for a new Metroid ever stopped to think that maybe it's not happening because no one knows what on earth to do with it?

How about just using the screen as Samus' visors when activated. Scanning, X-Ray, etc. And when not being used as a visor it's a killer 3D map with status information. I'm sure there is a load of cool stuff that could do while still also letting players experience Metroid as a third person shooter as well. I can see it as a slick hybrid experience actually.

Besides, there's nothing quite like exploring an alien Metroid world. It's the kind of stuff that makes my imagination explode. I'll be honest, I played DKCR to completion. But did so in little spurts. It's a great platformer and definitely a huge improvement over the Rare DKC games. But that doesn't take away from the fact that Nintendo has a core audience to satisfy that still loves their other classic franchises. The Prime games were bleeding edge. The kind of stuff they regularly produced through the 90s. Also, it appears this response now warrants a disclaimer: don't be insulted by my stance on this issue.

 

[hatchx]

Anybody know if DKC: Tropical Freeze is gonna support the Wii U Pro controller? I'm playing through NSMBU with it right now and it feels so good.

It better support it. It fuckin' better. They patched NSMBU, and if you can play DKC:TF on the gamepad, it shouldn't be too difficult to map it to the Pro controller.

I don't think the actual 2nd touchscreen is used in any meaningful way whatsoever.

 

[ArynCrinn]

We don't know officially. All the Retro/Nintendo people said they "couldn't talk about the control schemes" like there's some gameplay-altering secret to the Gamepad controls they don't want to spoil yet or something.

Luckily though with NSMBU we know patching is a thing. So if for some bizarre reason it's not included, Nintendo will see all the angry Miiverse posts soon enough...

Pro Controller better be included, I don't play NSMBU without it anymore. And I definitely don't want any touchscreen gimmicks that hinder the game like waggle did. Either way, Riivolution better save the day if Gamepad is default only.

 

[chaosblade]

Okay, so I've thought about this a bit. And I'm thinking about it from this perspective.

What are the games that Nintendo would like to sell to generate word of mouth about the Wii U? Specifically, if you look at so called "hardcore/AAA/mature" games would releasing one or two this holiday attract the audiences that Nintendo would like to start their word of mouth campaign... or would it be a DKC game and a 3D Mario local multiplayer game?

I think it's the latter. And I think word of mouth from audiences that purchase those games would be more important to Nintendo than the group of players who would buy a Metroid game (especially since many of those are people like us who already know about the Wii U). Bringing a game like Metroid in 2014 would not hurt Nintendo as much, I think. And that's when it seems other hardcore games like Bayo2 and Xenowhatever are coming out.



The controller situation is a mess. Nintendo should have been more firm and organized. Lack of Wiimote IR pointer controls in Revelations was such a disappointment.

Something fresh and different would be more interesting than DK and Mario and get people talking. It doesn't have to be some gritty hardcore mature shooter or something, I don't really understand why people are implying that "Not DKCTF = dark shootbang game." An IP revival or new IP would get people talking, especially once Nintendo started advertising it. Look at the interest in X, a lot of which is coming from people who never even played Xenoblade.

 

[Snowden's Secret]

It's analgous to Miyamoto not knowing "what to do" with F-Zero either, when all people really want is another solid iteration in HD to bring some diversity to Nintendo's lineup. It doesn't need a gimmick or a hook.

Nintendo generally hates sequels like that though, as it "devalues" older games by making them obsolete. Nintendo almost never releases a sequel without some sort of pervasive gameplay change (gimmick/innovation, choose your poison) because you run the risk of making the original obsolete.

That's why even for sequels that should be just "more of the same" something major is layered over it (why Smash Bros plays very differently each time, etc). For example, is there any reason to go back and pick up NSMB Wii instead of NSMB U? Sure, they are completely different games, but the sequel is such a vast improvement (instead of merely a lateral move) that you wouldn't need both unless you were a big fan.

Generally the only time Nintendo does a "more of the same" sequel is after a very long (at least an entire generation) hiatus.

 

[evilromero]

Can't you both be, to a certain degree?

Really, from my perspective it's just disappointment. Insulted is a strong word and MC is really reaching with his assertions to the point where I'm not sure it's worth discussing further. And I think the defenders/apologists side is more than likely insulted by the reaction of those disappointed by the news. How could they NOT like a new DKC game? What a great business move! I just don't get why people wouldn't embrace it! At least, that's how this thread has painted the issue for me. At the end of the day, I'm buying Tropical Freeze. I'm not trying to hide that fact. But I can voice my opinion that I'm disappointed by this. Sorry MC, I'm not insulted

I don't really understand why people are implying that "Not DKCTF = dark shootbang game." An IP revival or new IP would get people talking, especially once Nintendo started advertising it. Look at the interest in X, a lot of which is coming from people who never even played Xenoblade.

I think people are just being intentionally daft or just stubborn. It's funny because I feel like the people that want something fresh from Retro have Nintendo's best interest in mind moreso than those ravenously supporting a new DK game. Of course if DK just blows the doors wide open on the Wii U I'll happily admit my concerns were misguided. I don't really care too much in the grand scheme of things.

 

[moltonasty]

I want a new Metroid as much as the next guy, but nobody who worked on Metroid Prime (the best Retro developed Metroid game BTW) even works at Retro anymore, right? What makes you guys so sure the current team at Retro is even the best people to make a new Metroid game? Maybe their current team is better suited for DK? Anyway, didn't DKCR also sell more than all the Prime games combined? Nintendo is smart for putting them on DK again. I'm sure we'll see a Metroid game on Wii U down the line, it's inevitable.

 

[Spieler Eins]

That's not all they have, it's not a map pack, Mario 3D World is not a handheld game and giving a WiiFit sequel to a 40 millon balance board userbase is common sense. I'm sure you know that already, I remember you from a Mario 3D world thread where you got dozens of facts countering that same handheld argument.

They look almost identical to their previous entries (with some barely noticable fur effect slapped on to DK) and the gamepad in no way enhances the gameplay, nor did they come up with new concepts suited for the new hardware. I can only consider them map packs, and/or some of the laziest, most underwhelming efforts from Nintendo ever kicking off a new gen.
And giving those ~30 mil Nintendogs fans their sequel sure worked out well. About 10% of them returned, lol. They are better off making new IPs for the mainstream/,,casual'' crowd instead of rehashing Wii Fit, which will get them nowhere (But clearly, Iwata and the higher ups learn absolutely nothing from both failed launches).
Same goes for the rest of the fall/christmas lineup. If they are too angsty for something completely new, their known franchises at least need a fresh overhaul like they usually did in the past. Instead, DK Returns looks identical to DK Freeze and just like 3D World, there's no reason to go with these games at christmas over the much cheaper 3DS versions. All they did with this, is piss off more of their core fans. Even fucking EA was listening to some minority of their fans and gave them Mirrors Edge 2 alongside the typical milking. Meanwhile on the WiiU, all of their best teams are wasted on the ,,safest'' projects (which is utlimately a dumb idea, which got the WiiU in this abysmal situation in the first place) that lots of potential early adopters (aka dedicated gamers) didn't want to see.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Really, from my perspective it's just disappointment. Insulted is a strong word and MC is really reaching with his assertions to the point where I'm not sure it's worth discussing further. And I think the defenders/apologists side is more than likely insulted by the reaction of those disappointed by the news. How could they NOT like a new DKC game? What a great business move! I just don't get why people wouldn't embrace it! At least, that's how this thread has painted the issue for me. At the end of the day, I'm buying Tropical Freeze. I'm not trying to hide that fact. But I can voice my opinion that I'm disappointed by this. Sorry MC, I'm not insulted

I'm not talking about you.

I'm talking about the people on the first few pages of the thread we're posting in.

 

[Linkhero1]

I want a new Metroid as much as the next guy, but nobody who worked on Metroid Prime (the best Retro developed Metroid game BTW) even works at Retro anymore, right? What makes you guys so sure the current team at Retro is even the best people to make a new Metroid game? Maybe their current team is better suited for DK? Anyway, didn't DKCR also sell more than all the Prime games combined? Nintendo is smart for putting them on DK again. I'm sure we'll see a Metroid game on Wii U down the line, it's inevitable.

I'm sort of sick of hearing this. As far as I know, not everyone who worked on the Prime games has left Retro. Also, what makes you think the current team at Retro is incapable of making a Metroid game? Why would I care if DKCR sold more than Prime games? How does that impact what I would want? Also didn't the Wii have a pretty large install base when DKCR came out?

I mean yes, DKCR2 will probably sell more than a Metroid game in the long run, but that's not what people are arguing or upset about, at least I'm not.

 

[Tookay]

Really, from my perspective it's just disappointment. Insulted is a strong word and MC is really reaching with his assertions to the point where I'm not sure it's worth discussing further. And I think the defenders/apologists side is more than likely insulted by the reaction of those disappointed by the news. How could they NOT like a new DKC game? What a great business move! I just don't get why people wouldn't embrace it! At least, that's how this thread has painted the issue for me. At the end of the day, I'm buying Tropical Freeze. I'm not trying to hide that fact. But I can voice my opinion that I'm disappointed by this. Sorry MC, I'm not insulted

I agree with you in the sense that the defender/apologist side seems to take this more personally, like a part of themselves is offended if Nintendo is ever criticized. I just think that disappointed fans/deriders partially brought it on themselves by coming off too strong (even if I agree with them), which almost always invites a backlash on this forum of equal or greater magnitude.