That sounds like hidden loading.
Retro Studios working on fucking Donkey Kong
- Thread starter Sammy Samusu
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That sounds like hidden loading.
w1gglyjones
Member
The original DKC games did things like this, too. So your complaint seems to be more general than just DKCR.
Hurts my damn feelings is what it does.
They did the win bonus room and fail bonus room, but it wasn't as annoying. I played through DKC a few months ago.
Freezie KO
Banned
In fairness, Nintendo did make a deal to get an exclusive FPS at launch.
Unfortunately for them, it ended up being a divisive horror game with no online multiplayer. And then no exclusives followed that were even similar to Zombi U, so any potential momentum was lost.
Of course, no exclusives followed at all, so there's that problem too...
We wanted Star Tropics. Our inside source lied to us
Carpe Libertatem
Member
People thought they were working on StarTropics U, StarFox, F-Zero, Metroid Prime 4, and Sheik spinoff
Probably Earthbound U too
There were hopes of more ambitious titles catering to the ps3/360 crowd and some other flights of fancy. Instead we get a safe sequel. Good job Nintendo, I bet Wii U's will fly off the shelves.
1. it started back last E3 when nothing was shown of the game. reggie hinted at it. it had been a long time since their last project - because of the long development cycle people had assumed they were working on something larger and that it was probably being held off as ammo against the PS4/Xbone
2. adding to this, nintendo picked up hires from AAA western studios like Naughty Dog, Vigil? etc. these guys most people would think wouldn't work on a normal nintendo franchise. hires from heads of studios like Crytec? added to the idea that Nintendo had something seriously big planned. a game "Uncharted"-level in scope.
3. there were leaks that some of the developers were working on their prized achievements. people thought this was talking about the Retro Studios game and the quick cover-up added fuel to that fire.
4. Retro Studios had even moved into a new studio to house all of their new hires, they must've had something HUGE planned!
5. rumors throughout the years of games as wild as an action-adventure Shiek game, StarTropics open-world game, anything. just weeks before E3 we heard they were working on a "new brand"
6. adding to this was nintendo flat out saying that Retro Studios wasn't working on another Donkey Kong. adding to that was a 3DS remake of the older game coming out this year. many thought they couldn't possibly be doing the same thing that happened with NSMB - two in a year. that was an awful strategy that may have harmed momentum for the Wii U.
so that's the hype buildup, all of the elements were there, now fans were using Retro Studio's games as ammo in the console war. it was definitely going to be the next big thing. when the game hit, the console war forces collided and now people from the Nintendo camp who had been pre-emptively praising this unknown game as the Wii U Holy Grail were let down and the ammo they had been using for the last year turned bunk, and people on the other side of the console war were now eager to take advantage of that weakness and concern troll.
this all led to sequel to an amazing game, one of the best platformers ever created, being "fucking Donkey Kong". it's really Nintendo's fault. they should've noticed this happening because it wasn't just happening on GAF, it spread to 4chan, reddit, and most other game forums.
w1gglyjones
Member
No, sorry. Similar shit happens for their other studios also, especially within Nintendo. No one was to blame for the Retro hype but the gamers.
Bioshock Infinite taking forever = must be development hell
Retro Studios takes on a secret 3 year project = must be Star Tropics + TLoU + Earthbound
KillerTravis
Banned
Those people should buy a PS3/360 instead. What's the point of owning several consoles if they all play similar games?
no shit. the fans created the hype. i'm saying it's nintendo's fault for not stopping it. for not speaking up and calming the storms, which most developers do. instead they just kept adding that fuel on to it by denying months before E3 that they weren't making a DK sequel.
Jawmuncher
Member
You can't generalize like that though.
I imagine he's talking about a game that could draw in the 360/PS3 fanbase but would still have the Nintendo "charm" behind it. Kind of like the original Metroid Prime in a way.
Silent_Ocarina
Member
Can you give specific examples in which developers "calmed the storms?" "Kept adding that fuel" is rather hyperbolic. From what I know, Tanabe denied way back in 2011 that they were doing a sequel. Even if they were, did you really expect him to outright say it two years ago? It's not as if Retro said they weren't making Donkey Kong shortly before E3. This was years ago.
I can't get stuff like Metroid, Punch out or Sin & punishment and Eternal Ocean on 360. Hardly the dudebro games that people assume other fans want went asking for more variety.
sure. pick any game that had a long development cycle. blizzard. what's that big game? titan? consider that storm calmed, no fans waiting on that one.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/29/blizzards-titan-mmo-delayed-reset
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Although there's also Valve, the complete opposite haha
yea, true. they're a bit different with that and it's a part of their thing. most developers aren't like that and can't have fans waiting around and expecting something greater then they can deliver. that's horrible in every marketing way imaginable. i like donkey kong and i'm satisfied with this game, but nintendo did one of the sloppiest marketing jobs around this game that i've ever seen.
KillerTravis
Banned
I think people should just let Retro work on whatever the hell they want. This is like wanting thatgamecompany to stop making emotional/artistic games, that although I hate, it's what they are good at and what they like to make. Why would anyone want Donkey Kong Country to return to the depths of hell anyway?
The Metroid Prime team is dead, they are at Armature not making any worthwhile games, meanwhile we have a great 2D platformer developer that knows what they are doing and already delivered the best platformer of the last generation.
Silent_Ocarina
Member
I admit that I am not knowledgeable on that particular game, but it sounds as though Blizzard had already announced that they were making the game. Due to unforeseen circumstances, they had to halt production, and that's when they let the fans know. This isn't comparable to what happened to Retro. Retro fans were incessantly speculating on their unannounced project. Nintendo didn't talk about how they hired people form various big companies. Nintendo said nothing about Retro aside from that 2011 interview and Reggie's mention (which was only brought on by the interviewer). The fans did it to themselves. It's not Nintendo's job to babysit their fans and say, "No, no, they're not doing Metroid. Or Star Fox. Or Star Tropics. Don't get too excited."
w1gglyjones
Member
So it's okay for valve because they are "a bit different with that," but Retro Studios... the developer with a website that looks like it was built for Netscape browsers... somehow has to tell you to not expect Star-Tropics-TLoU-Earthbound and to set your sights a bit "lower"?
The Metroid Prime team is dead? Pretty sure that not everyone associated with MP left like you think.
Estocolmo
Member
Thank you for that pedagogical explanation! But one theory, isnt there a chance that Retro Studio may make a "Resident Evil 4" with their new Donkey Kong? Considering the history of Retro Studios and their top A recruits.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Well, it's different because Valve is absolutely incredible at trolling its fans with stuff like Ricochet 2. It's just part of what they do
Agree that the hype for Retro's game was set up entirely by fans though, but I do think Nintendo mishandled it a little bit (even upon its announcement, like afaik the e3 direct didn't say developed by Retro even though that was a pretty safe guess although it was laggy so I don't know)
fredrancour
Member
I don't know if Nintendo was aware of how the internet pulled hype out of its collective ass with respect to Retro. People got this information on hires from stalking resumes, right? And for most of the lead-up, all speculaton about what the game was, was basically made up? I normally will not hesitate to call out Nintendo on being out of touch with fans but I believe that it was reasonable that the rumor mill outstripped them here.
it's nintendo's job to get fans to expect and be excited about their products. that's what marketing is. this was a failure of marketing, no other way to spin it. nintendo let the circumstances appear that would allow us to do things like check who they're hiring. it isn't like we acted in secret out here and built an echo chamber. the fan base was loud. there were articles about "retros game" up on every major gaming news site. it was frequently discussed in the media, in podcasts, employees were questioned about it in interviews. if your employees are being harassed on twitter, any business with a proper marketing department would look to the cause of that, and work out from there to reduce disappointment. they didn't, it's bad marketing. don't blame the fans, fans are just a product of nintendo's marketing
Whoa why the hell would someone want a sheik spin off at that point you might as well make a new ip
Silent_Ocarina
Member
Wait, wait, it's Nintendo's fault that fans started harassing Eric on Twitter, scoping out resumes on LinkedIn, and checking security cameras? Seriously? I'm not saying fans can't be disappointed. Even I'm disappointed. But I'm not going to blame Nintendo because I built up my own expectations too high. Nintendo literally did nothing to get fans excited about Retro's game. I suppose, by your definition, that that would be a failure of marketing. But nevertheless, Nintendo is definitely not at fault for its fans fabricating their own fantasy about Retro's game.
I think the only thing they did do was not showing off retros game in that Wii u direct that happened earlier on in the year. Because let's face it X, Bayonetta 2 are much bigger surprises that they could of shown off at e3. The fact that they didn't show retros mysterious game along with those ones sort of contributed to the hype
Nintendo is at the spearhead of relationship marketing in video games. They are all about building long-term dedicated fans. They want you to play their games, keep playing their games, and get your kids to play their games. It's absolutely their fault when they misunderstand their audience expectations and fail to act on them. If they fail to market Retro Studios as a product and can't get people to demand a game from them - that's a failure in marketing. If they succeed at marketing Retro Studios as a product and get people to demand too much - that's a failure in marketing. It goes both ways. If fans aren't killing people, you don't blame the fans. Getting excited is not a crime.
Steve Youngblood
Member
They could have also simply mentioned that Donkey Kong Country would be shown at E3, and that would have put speculation to rest. I feel like there is some confusion here. Sure, maybe some people around the time of the announcement felt they were owed an apology because they were convinced that they were getting Metroid or (insert dream project here). Others I think are more reasonable than that in their assessment that the Donkey Kong reveal was mishandled.
For those of you that disagree, that's fine. You can argue that Donkey Kong was a pleasant surprise. But I don't think it was outlandish for people to hope that Retro -- a company that has historically proven capable of producing large scale products that are outside of Nintendo's wheelhouse -- might have been producing something that could be a real showpiece more so than another 2D mascot platformer.
Again, I don't want this to appear as a knock against Donkey Kong, or suggest its beneath Retro. But I am not a fan of suggesting that people were foolish to have any expectations about what Retro might be working on.
Marketing a product starts from before you even create a product. Marketing is asking the question, who is our customer, what is our product, and how can we best sell our product to our customer? If there is confusion in the marketplace about who Nintendo/Retro is making games for, and what types of games Nintendo/Retro is making, then that is a failure of marketing. If because of that confusion, customers are angry when the new Nintendo/Retro product is revealed, then that is a failure of marketing.
Nintendo thought they could just yell, "Surprise! It's Donkey Kong!" and Nintendo fans everywhere would shout with glee. Much like another company once thought they could just say "It's Ridge Racer!" In both cases, the surprise was underwhelming.
Edit: Beaten like a rented mule.
I have to say, if I was Retro, I'd be frustrated that the developer of X was prominently featured in the Nintendo Direct, while Nintendo doesn't even feel that the Retro name carries enough weight to mention in the Nintendo Direct.
w1gglyjones
Member
You say that the DKC:TF reveal was mishandled, perhaps. How could Nintendo and Retro even signal to fans in a way to not create the frustration and discussion that is similar to this thread?
peaceiscloser
Member
Me too. I'm glad this exists.
Steve Youngblood
Member
By announcing at literally any point prior to E3 that a sequel to Donkey Kong Country Returns was in development?
Silent_Ocarina
Member
You are misunderstanding me, I think. It's reasonable to be upset at Nintendo for not making a game that you wanted made. I am not claiming that everyone should be content with whatever Retro put out just because it was a "surprise."
My main point is that Nintendo did not indicate at any time that Retro's project would be anything huge or completely mind-boggling. That is the narrative that fans created themselves. It's really not Nintendo's fault that fans made something out of literally nothing.
Let me emphasize the question that started it all.
To me, the only logical answers would have been, "I wanted Retro Studios to create [insert hypothetical game here]" or something along the lines of "We expected something much bigger." Yet the answers given insinuate that Nintendo themselves led fans to believe that something bigger was coming.
My main point is that Nintendo did not indicate at any time that Retro's project would be anything huge or completely mind-boggling. That is the narrative that fans created themselves. It's really not Nintendo's fault that fans made something out of literally nothing.
Let me emphasize the question that started it all.
To me, the only logical answers would have been, "I wanted Retro Studios to create [insert hypothetical game here]" or something along the lines of "We expected something much bigger." Yet the answers given insinuate that Nintendo themselves led fans to believe that something bigger was coming.
If they had updated their website for just one day with the DK rap in the background from anytime between the start of this year until probably April and let it get noticed, this thread would've never happened. Call it a fluke, a joke, whatever afterwards. We still all would've been there waiting to see what game would be shown. All of the shock would be over, all of the crazy pre-E3 speculation would've been held in moderation, and people would've actually taken a look at their product for what it was when it was actually revealed instead of immediately dismissing it as a cheap Wii port. The viral outrage after the game reveal would've been put down before it started and Nintendo's other games would've been held to a higher regard as well.
We'd probably be talking right now about which rapper we want to handle the next DK rap.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
It would have happened, just not after its formal announcement
I'm glad Retro is working on fucking Donkey Kong.
DKCR is my favorite 2d platformer of all time, and I've been playing the fucking things since the original DK in fucking arcades and fucking Colecovision.
If Retro can create a sequel that's as fucking good as DCKR, with some fresh fucking ideas, then I'm all fucking for it. After fucking all, the fucking off-screen playthroughs I've watched looking fucking awesome. They weren't fucking kidding when they talked about those fucking camera angles. They really do look fucking good.
And it's not like fucking Retro is a fucking stranger to fucking sequels. They did 3 fucking Metroid Prime games,
DKCR is my favorite 2d platformer of all time, and I've been playing the fucking things since the original DK in fucking arcades and fucking Colecovision.
If Retro can create a sequel that's as fucking good as DCKR, with some fresh fucking ideas, then I'm all fucking for it. After fucking all, the fucking off-screen playthroughs I've watched looking fucking awesome. They weren't fucking kidding when they talked about those fucking camera angles. They really do look fucking good.
And it's not like fucking Retro is a fucking stranger to fucking sequels. They did 3 fucking Metroid Prime games,
Vire
Member
This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read on GAF.
Well... maybe second.
How about - people were upset it wasn't a new Metroid and leave it at that?
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I always read the thread title out loud and I always laugh
dangerous high sodium levels by the OP
dangerous high sodium levels by the OP
Steve Youngblood
Member
The point isn't that Nintendo misled people and need to apologize to those of us that thought they were getting an epic update to StarTropics (or whatever). I think the crux of the issue is that some feel that there is certain void in Nintendo's current lineup. Sure, 2D Mario and Pikmin and Wonderful 101 and 3D Mario are great, and Bayonetta an Mario Kart and X and Smash Bros. are coming next year, and that's great. But until then, I think that some really hoped for a title with the scope of something like Metroid ready for this (currently lacking) holiday season that could really showcase Nintendo's leap into HD.
And who could make such a game? Why, the makers of the Metroid Prime Trilogy, whose project we know nothing about! Sure, maybe they are working on another Donkey Kong game, but some hoped that Nintendo would realize that the platform already has a pretty decent library of both 2D and 3D platformers, and would utilize Retro's talents to do something different that could be a technical showpiece.
So, after waiting all that time to hear what Retro's been working on, what's the big reveal? Donkey Kong -- a 2D mascot platformer.
Yea, it's pretty sad. I knew it was sad when I was writing it but I'm not going to not write sad things because it sounds funny to hear. Some of the conversations I remember hearing were just hilarious around Retro Studios. You should go back and read them if you don't like, believe me, or something. Also, your need to bold, underline, and italics everything is pretty childish. That wasn't a strong opinion I was writing, it was meant to be informative to someone who wasn't there and didn't know. Reading it bolded makes it sound like I was upset when I wrote it. I wasn't at all.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I don't know. You made some pretty terrible posts in that recent Ellen Page Naughty Dog thread, Vire. I wouldn't do these kinds of callouts if I were you.
Silent_Ocarina
Member
Yes, it's difficult to deny what you've said here. As I mentioned previously, I am also disappointed myself. However, my short argument was a rebuttal to the notion that Nintendo did mislead fans. I do agree with what you've said, but I think my post is relevant (although it does not focus on the main problem that you've laid out above) as long as there are people who believe that Nintendo is at fault for fans having unbelievably high expectations.
The bulk of this thread and the users in here are demonstrating a great example of the self-entitled gamer we've heard thrown around from time to time. Yeesh guys. Nintendo doesn't owe any of you, or me, anything. This coming from a huge Nintendo fan who buys all their stuffs too and makes platinum on a yearly basis. The chutzpah in here is something else.
w1gglyjones
Member
Actually, Nintendo does owe us. When Nintendo releases hardware, it owes us Nintendo games for that hardware....
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Donkey Kong Country isn't a Nintendo game?
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