charlequin
Banned
The degree to which having a single, omnipotent platform-holder controlling the sole sales mechanism produces an anti-competitive environment really cannot be overstated.
There's a petition for asking Microsoft To Bring Back Xbox One's DRM
- Thread starter artist
- Start date
The degree to which having a single, omnipotent platform-holder controlling the sole sales mechanism produces an anti-competitive environment really cannot be overstated.
Well I liked the whole physical games being turned into digital and being able to play disc games discless. I felt that was a benefit.
I also liked that that allowed for price comparisons between physical stores and the Xbox Marketplace. That might have even put some downward pressure on Xbox Marketplace prices.
Both of those things seemed to be a benefit to me.
SwiftDeath
Member
I've been thinking what would happen if both the PS4 and X1 had DRM on them
I believe without console used games bringing down the prices of older titles for the overall market, PC games might become more expensive as they have less price competition from console games due to console games being fairly similar to PC games then
Not sure I made my thought clear
adamsappel
Member
Game support, as in MP servers? The original buyer is no longer playing that game online. And I have no problem with charging a fee for a new online code. I think it's a shitty thing to do, but I acknowledge the argument.
It can also spawn new game sales. I would think most people do it this way because it makes the initial cost a little easier to bear.
Do developers not think $60 is a hefty amount of money? I know some of them think that their game is the only one I'd want to pay full price for, and I couldn't possibly want any of the other four games that are released on the same goddamn day. Why don't you work on that aspect of your business model?
Diskless games... To save you from an eject button? You never gave a reason for installs as a benefit. Other than saving a few seconds - what is the benefit?
Also, if Steam and Origin didn't force MS into competitive pricing - more control in MS's favor (being shifted from the consumer, mind you) certainly won't.
You speak as if we don't have current examples :/
Quadraphonic
Member
You can still install games AND also buy digital. In fact, forcing MS to authenticate ALL purchases meant there's even less pressure to be competitive for pricing at stores.
hokagespit
Member
I don't get the online MP argument for that reason. I didn't spawn another copy of my game when i sold it so im handing my MP rights over to someone else. how does that hurt the company when someone would be using my MP entitlement?
Im one of those oddballs who rarely plays anything online though. if i trade in something with dumbass MP features chances are the redemption code in the box is good to go.
Looking at this petition the reasons for signing. Theres no way this will be taken seriously this has been trolled to all hell. Some i cant tell if sarcastic or brainwashed but damn. troll infested waters.
And all that can still be done as long as you purchase digitally. Now we have both with discs and actually owning the property. Win for the consumer and win for the person who doesn't care about getting screwed because the 24 hour check is removed.
Because you're aware the argument doesn't hold any water. A lot of these people are hoping others lack critical thinking skills so that they can gouge them for every nickel and dime their worth.
I buy digital when I see value in it. For example, I bought Crysis for $5 last week. I'm getting a huge game for very little money. I've bought DLC for games I've enjoyed. Whether I bought the game used or not. Again, I don't buy used to save money. It's insurance against if I don't like the game. Also, I sell on eBay so I can dictate how much I get for the game.
Used games don't reproduce more used games, regardless of more sales. I hope you don't think that if 1 game is bought new and the same copy is recycled used 5 more times that those are 5 lost new game sales. Those other 5 sales would have never bought the game new. Ever.
adamsappel
Member
The only caveat I see is that without used game sales, a games online presence would naturally decline due to boredom, other games, etc., so used games replenish that online community and keep the servers busy. Though, that community will get smaller all the time, so server load decreases as well. EA was the only company doing it, and they dropped it because it didn't generate a lot of revenue.
I dont know how many times this has to be said....MS.....coulda....kept....family....share, ......selling, lending and sharing ....digital games....and kept DRM tied to digital games and games you decided to upload to the cloud...only....
There was and is no need for DRM and online check ins to be included for every game for the Xbox One. That petition is so stupid.....they shoulda asked for specifics back, not the orig policies as a whole. I am willing to bet that those 22,000 signatures dont matter as much as public opinion and the pre orders gap vs the PS4.
Bring back the orig policies as a whole MS...and the XBO is gonna go back to being a distant 2nd in popularity to the PS4....and this is before the consoles even launch.
On a side note....all the bundles of the PS4 on Amazon is sold out now. MS has no bundles except with the Kinect for the XBO...and Sony has abut 5-6 bundles that includes games for the PS4.....some include a free year of PSN+
There was and is no need for DRM and online check ins to be included for every game for the Xbox One. That petition is so stupid.....they shoulda asked for specifics back, not the orig policies as a whole. I am willing to bet that those 22,000 signatures dont matter as much as public opinion and the pre orders gap vs the PS4.
Bring back the orig policies as a whole MS...and the XBO is gonna go back to being a distant 2nd in popularity to the PS4....and this is before the consoles even launch.
On a side note....all the bundles of the PS4 on Amazon is sold out now. MS has no bundles except with the Kinect for the XBO...and Sony has abut 5-6 bundles that includes games for the PS4.....some include a free year of PSN+
Ironically, people in open source software development produce software often without intention of getting paid for it.
CassiusLonginus
Banned
But precisely because of that setup, disks truly became ancillary. If you want all your games digital, you could do that then and you can still do it now even with the changes. Only now disk ownership is not thrown under the bus.
Did you specifically want to have the disk even though it was useless after installation?
Serious question, not trying to be snarky.
FranXico
Member
Open source? Such filth! How DARE those people offer their work? We should just forbid them from doing so!
/sarcasm
Maybe you should try reading some of the comments on that petition? Most of them are trolling the petition or hoping that MS will go back to their DRM stance so people will go back to despise them again.
Read some of the signatures....they are joke sigs. If that petition means anything so does this:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105...ail&refresh=1371993272695#lf_comment=82032378
Might as well split the total votes in half and thats 14,000 in favor of the XBO...
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/ps4-grabs-95-consumer-votes-amazon-ends-poll-early-56766.html
This is before the DRM reversal....
SwiftDeath
Member
In what way?
That the average joe did in fact want the X1's original policies hence the 22,000 signatures?
Honestly not sure what you're getting at by the GAF sheep quip
It's also been stated numerous times that quite a few signatures on there are from Sony fans who want the X1 to fail by bringing by the disliked policies
Or just force them to write awk scripts.
lol, nice selective quoting that ignores the fact I already addressed and dismissed your 'rebuttal' in what you deleted. You stating that you didn't imply an increase in disposable income makes me think that you didn't even understand your own argument...
Also I don't believe I cited a 'number', my point was that there weren't any to cite, but whatever, you got banned, hopefully for being so disingenuous.
Dunno if anyone wants to make a thread about this since i cant. But a confirmed Xbox one dev did an AMA on reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1i71s5/i_am_an_xbox_one_dev_ask_me_almost_anything/ Talked about family sharing and DRM. Also confirmed that family sharing was for full games and not demos
You're not looking at the big picture. If people bought fewer games at launch because they had less expendable income, the market would react by lowering prices. Currently, there is little benefit to lowering MSRP at launch because they'll be undercut by used games regardless. Console gamers like to ignore the mobile market, but it's a great example of how products start competing on price when you remove used games and retail. When you cut out the middleman, you get cheaper games and more revenue -- everybody wins but the obsolete retailer. There's studies that back this up but I have a feeling you'd ignore them regardless. This isn't hoping publishers are nice guys -- publishers would be forced to lower prices if they want to stay in business.
Yeah, I'd like to call bullshit on that until you show them saying every used game sale is a lost purchase.
And don't extrapolate things that aren't there -- you just end up wasting people's time with strawman arguments.
Hehehe, perhaps I don't understand how Reddit works, I don't, but unless I'm missing something he doesn't answer the actual important question, so this falls into 'saying whatever you want because it's been killed' again.
He didn't confirm jack.
Why is such a hard concept to grasp that you can make up anything you're saying if you don't have to follow through with it.
Anyone that believes Microsoft over proven insiders with an amazing track record are absolute fools.
TheVoidDragon
Member
Why would you think this? There is nothing at all that suggests it. People would cancel their pre-orders and it would look really bad for Microsoft, even worse than suggesting the DRM in the first place.
Well i dont buy into all the CBOAT worship. He isn't infallible. And he got things wrong with the E3 "leaks". And this dev has no reason to lie. Plus MS has always been talking about family sharing and saying how good it is. I think they would anticipate the disappointment if it was just 1 hour game demos. But i realise how the Xbox one is pretty much Hitler right now so people are more inclined to believe negative news over positive.
I'm just being realistic. Why would they talk about it if its not something interesting? They know that we all expect its full games.
CassiusLonginus
Banned
I think precisely because they realized they couldn't deliver on the one thing people were justifying all the DRM and stuff, they went back on that stuff.
Didn't Major Nelson blog that the details on the family plan were coming just a couple of days before they did the 180?
And if I remember correctly, the family plan was a footnote at the xb1 presentations and they just started talking how awesome it was because the press started asking questions prompted by the audience. Like angry joe.
Cotton McKnight
Member
Wow another reason to not buy a MS gaming console, again. Wow MS you are 0-3 with me, remove DRM and I might have considered the xboxone....
Yeah he talked a lot about it at E3 also. It sounded promising. Its weird how they would let us basically abuse it though. Since we can add anyone to the "family" Maybe there was some sort of catch
They did realize and anticipate it.
And that's why they threw it away while taking out the rest of the trash.
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
The catch being it wasn't a family plan. It was a glorified demo plan.
haha maybe so. Even they admitted there PR was trash. They didnt even talk about this until gamers did some digging on it
We don't know this for sure.
CassiusLonginus
Banned
Then also in an interview with Kotaku, when Totilo adked him if the family sharing plan meant those you shared with could play the full game without restriction, Nelson said to read what was up in the official faq of xb. He could have just said yes or no, instead directs to a vague faq.
That only said the basic PR phrase "share your library with friends and family" without any details.
It really seema that MS either didn't have definitive details on this or had them, new they weren't what people expected and were making time to see if they could pull it off.
They didn't have any answers to anything at all. That was there downfall. They were good at talking about all the negatives though for some reason
Realistic? Realistic is realizing that the dev is inclined to say whatever the hell he wants to make his employer look better now that there is no way to verify his claims. This is almost the textbook definition of "drinking the kool-aid."
There is no proof of that on in the console space. None whatsoever. Comparing the mobile space to that of consoles is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. The mobile market has lower production costs, and no game requires the amount of resources that a AAA console game has. They could easily lower the prices now and recoup the cost by selling more. They don't need to because games like CoD and The Last of Us and Tomb Raider and Bioshock: Infinite sell extremely well out of the game with $60 price tags.
But I'd love to read these studies if you have them. I'm all for being proven wrong and learning new things.
https://twitter.com/therealcliffyb/status/347482802721288192
https://twitter.com/davidscottjaffe/status/342818769711820800
Irony.
Depends how attached he is to the success of a corporation. Nobody tries to verify negative information though. I can guarantee if that AMA was him leaking lots of new negative information about the Xbox one everyone would believe it.
Employees tend to be quite attached to the success of the people paying their wages. You make it sound like he has no connection other than being a 'fan' of MS, and that MS is just another 'corporation' to him.
Which negative information are you referring to? Genuine question. As far as I know all the negative Xbone info has been confirmed.
Fried Food
Banned
There were positives to the DRM plan. And if you didn't care about a remote chance of no internet for a little it was almost all good.
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
So you actually believe they were going to let you and 10 other people share full games? Yea. Ok.
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
Yes. Giving up complete control of being able to resell your games to the highest bidder is definitely worth a most likely 1 hour of game sharing. Giving Microsoft complete control of your hardware and games is worth it too.
Caayn
Member
As someone who barely sells their games, yes they are. I can understand why people don't want the DRM. But it is damn hard to find people who can understand why people like me want the DRM.
The DRM has both pros and cons. But sadly most people only look at the cons.
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
Because for those people it's the cons that affect them much more than any supposed pros would.
Wickerbasket
Member
They could still offer the online only DRM option for digital games, but Microsoft won't because the family plan never existed in any meaningful manner.
There pros weren't clearly defined, and their cons were overwhelming.
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
Exactly. Microsoft in essence took their ball and went home.
Caayn
Member
It was clear from the get-go that the family sharing plan wasn't going to work as people initially thought it was. No company would be happy if their customers can share their products with 10 other people without a limit of any kind.
The DRM is more than just the family plan. It is the ability to use physicall games like they are digital. Instant gameswitching which in turn allowed for the seamless integration with the new smart matchmaking. All with the benefits of the competitive prices that we are used to from competing stores.
Similar threads
- Poll