Dragon's Crown Reviews

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ironcreed said:
As others have pointed out many times, it boggles the mind how some are just fine and dandy with shooting countless people in games and chopping their heads off with blood spraying all over the place, but a pair of over-sized breasts and some skimpy outfits depicted in a cartoonish, classic fantasy themed game is just too much and must be protested. Absolutely hilarious.
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Well, apparently some people are clearly inspired by these "video games" to commit atrocities. Surely people will bring this depiction of oversized breasts to real life as well! That can't be allowed!
 
LiveFromKyoto said:
Most of the posters in here are missing the point entirely. The male equivalent is not a fit guy with muscles, it would be if he had a huge wiggly dick jiggling all over the place in his thong as he walked.

Love to see the Twittersphere's "no big deal, get over it" reaction to that one.
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Oh?
 
Shosai said:
Style is one of the many qualities that any game possesses.
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You're talking about "qualities". I'm talking about "quality". They're two very different things.

I don't consider a 6/10 to be "low". The fact that I (and many other people) don't see it as "low" already disqualifies it from being described as "objectively low". The only objective parts of a review are a description of the product's contents, and the reviewer's personal experience.
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That's untrue. Games aren't pure forms of art. They include artistic elements but they include also plenty technical elements, and technical elements can and should be judged objectively, provided that one has the technical expertise to do so.

And one that doesn't should do his homework before reviewing games.

You can never put all of your preconceptions aside when reviewing a game. Your past experiences always influence your current interpretations.

Are you going to approach every game like it's the first one you ever played, and then dock points for not explaining every button press thoroughly enough? Of course not, you're going to approach with some degree of preconceptions about how controllers should work and what the game should do, and whether it compares favorably to past game's you played. Because your readers share those preconceptions.
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Your readers don't share those preconceptions, and that's exactly why you should try your hardest to put as many as those preconceptions aside as possible (and yes, it's very possible, humans have been gifted with intelligence, whether by god or evolution, so yes, they are perfectly capable to act and write as rational beings if they so want, and a critic definitely should), in order not to mislead those that don't share your preconceptions and personal taste.

A good game reviewer writes for all his readers, not just for those that share his same tastes and political agendas.
 
Shosai said:
You're aware that male libidos quickly peak at the age of 18, right?
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I'm not sure what that has to do with my question. It was tongue in cheek anyway so I don't expect a serious answer.

Riposte said:
It is unfortunate how these threads are rarely about mechanics, or even overall atmosphere. I did ask some questions about how the game plays in the OT, but they've gone unanswered. So, I give up.
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Only people who have the JP/Asia releases have been able to play the game so far. You'll probably have a better chance of getting answers once the 6th rolls around.
 
LiveFromKyoto said:
Most of the posters in here are missing the point entirely. The male equivalent is not a fit guy with muscles, it would be if he had a huge wiggly dick jiggling all over the place in his thong as he walked.

Love to see the Twittersphere's "no big deal, get over it" reaction to that one.
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No, that wouldn't be the equivalent. Breasts are not sexual organs. Penises are not visual signs of fertility to women. The equivalent would be a well-defined muscular body. I don't mean steroid-abusing huge.
 
QisTopTier said:
I'm sorry, there have been too many post pretty much leading up to situations like that when this subject get's drawn out which it has been about 6 times now from this game. It's a never ending cycle.

Oh look this again :lol
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But it has nothing to do with anyone wanting every woman in a game being normal.
 
Jomjom said:
I've seen way more enormous sized boobs in real life than I have seen guys who look like this. Maybe it's because I live in the OC, but who knows.

Don't understand why there is such a huge uproar about the unrealistic, sexualized depiction of women, but almost nothing about the same type of depiction of men in most games. I'm sorry, but I would wager less than 5% of the men playing these games even remotely resemble male protagonists in video games. Nearly every male character has a 26-pack while I can only count one big pack on myself.
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For gods sake what games are you playing? For every Kratos or Chris Redfield there are plenty of Nathan Drakes and Joel's. Men are rarely bare chested and unfathomably chiseled, most protags these days are your "everyday joes" or some form of "military bro dude #938". I do not understand this argument.

Are you saying that less than 5% of the men playing these games are attractive men or muscular? And are you saying being overtly muscular is the only definition of a man being attractive?
 
greendomo's ghost said:
My wife has big breasts. She wishes they were smaller. Very few women would want the sorceresses breasts, unless they want to have a backache for the rest of their life.

If anything the female stereotype of desired beauty is the thinner, less voluptuous style you'd see in a runway model.
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hmm, my gf has smaller breasts, and she wishes them bigger all the time. naturally, the sorc's size is not realistic (as is its setting) but no reason to halt and dismiss the game and a oversexualization and sexist as it doesn't objectify, given its diverse casts and NPCS.
 
RedSwirl said:
I'm also still mystified that these character designs only started to get attention within the last few months when they were first revealed in 2011. I mean, Vanillaware fans and niche Japanese game fans took notice back then, but the gaming press at large didn't until basically two years afterwards. Is this what Vanillaware has to do to get sales?
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To be fair, it really only became a hot button issue recently.

It's such a bad game to target tho.

It's the art style. Its been explained but it seems like people don't think it's good enough. and sexist sexist sexist objectifyication and all that jazz.

Like I have said, there is something to talk about in terms of this "issue" but Dragons Crown isn't it. Killer is Dead isn't it. and yet those are the games that get pointed at as harmful.

Niche ass games, that wasn't going to light charts on fire and the tin foil hat guy in me says aren't being pushed by Top Publishers. Let's say EA or Activision was pushing either of these games...i wonder if there would be this many articles on it?

Tin Foil hat mode off but still This isn't the correct target for the outrage. George explained his idea...if that doesn't sit well with you too bad...but for fucks sake stahp.
 
LiveFromKyoto said:
Most of the posters in here are missing the point entirely. The male equivalent is not a fit guy with muscles, it would be if he had a huge wiggly dick jiggling all over the place in his thong as he walked.

Love to see the Twittersphere's "no big deal, get over it" reaction to that one.
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I don't think that comparison works. A penis is a sex organ whereas breasts are fat.
Although the skimpier gear would work.
 
GuardianE said:
I understand where you're coming from, and I appreciate your perspective on it. I still disagree.

I didn't say that the reviewer's opinion is invalid if they don't hold part of the majority share opinion, but rather the scope of the review should not consist entirely of their opinion.

I don't think it's dishonest to write your review for a variety of perspectives. I don't think a review is your own personal journey through a game. Ultimately, you're assigning a score to this product. This score is a numerical representation of value. Maybe part of the issue I have is simply how Metacritic has changed what review scores MEAN to the industry, and the weight that they carry.
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Mmm. Understand, I'm coming to this as one of those people who thinks that review scores are silly to begin with.
 
phanboy4 said:
If there's a meaningful reason to draw cartoonishly massive boobs on something that isn't 'BECAUSE I'M A GUY AND I THINK THIS IS SEXY' or for comedic purposes, nobody's come up with it yet.
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Reason? What reason is there to make the Fighter tall? What reason is there to make the Wizard have grey hair? What reason is there to make the Sorceress wear purple? What reason is there to make her hat large? Asking for a specific reason why a specific part of a character was made a certain way in a vacuum is absurd. If from the start they decided "We want the Sorceress to exhibit a seductive look that is somewhat exaggerated." they may give her large breasts with the purpose of nailing that look. You're being very closed-minded here.
 
Knux-Future said:
Niche ass games, that wasn't going to light charts on fire and the tin foil hat guy in me says aren't being pushed by Top Publishers. Let's say EA or Activision was pushing either of these games...i wonder if there would be this many articles on it?
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That's actually a fair point. I do not recall this much outrage over Shadows of the Damned. I wonder how much of that is due to EA "publishing" the game and how much of that is due to releasing before feminism became popular in mainstream game websites.

[And before anyone complains: I don't recall underwear being twisted anywhere near the extent that it is now prior to Anita's Tropes vs Women kickstarter. Perhaps Beyonetta, but that's about it, and it's was such a minor drama that it was forgotten about. Hence why I believe it's a fad, and why I'm not expecting much to change before the audience for such controversies dies off, which I'm forecasting to be shortly after the release of the next generation of consoles]
 
LiveFromKyoto said:
Most of the posters in here are missing the point entirely. The male equivalent is not a fit guy with muscles, it would be if he had a huge wiggly dick jiggling all over the place in his thong as he walked.

Love to see the Twittersphere's "no big deal, get over it" reaction to that one.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The male equivalent is the fit guy with muscles because that is the part of the male physique that is shown in public that many women will be attracted to, just as the outline of breasts and the butt are often used in the public to attract males. No male outfit shows a huge dick just jiggling around. If you asked any woman, very very few will tell you that seeing a "huge wiggly dick" is attractive, while many women will swoon over a lean six-pack and defined biceps.

For women, many outfits are designed to show cleavage or to be tight to accentuate the buttocks or the cleavage in public. Those features are also what many men will point to as physical features that are attractive to the eyes.
 
Seems pretty clearly pandering. It's pandering to its supposed demographic, and it's pandering to the artist himself. That doesn't necessarily mean it's sexist, if for no other reason than that the characters in this case have their own agency and seem empowered within the context of the game.

I didn't expect so many positive reviews. I guess I'll read more than just the OP's worth of some of them, but I wonder who other than co-optimus even bothered addressing that the online multi is an unlockable, and if anyone addressed whether the combat has any depth (and by that I mean something like D&D, I'm not expecting this to be SF4 crossed with a SRPG or something).
 
Riposte said:
You accused of Kamitani/Vanillaware of "pandering to the lowest common denominator". This implies that this product (at least first and foremost) is being designed to fit an audience and not being designed through the creativity of an artist. What proof do you have this?

It would be like saying that it isn't possible for Naughty Dog to want to create a "zombie" post-apocalypse TPS because that combination is made up of one some of the most powerful themes and genres. Thus they must be after the LCD.
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I wouldn't have a problem with the huge jiggly tits if they were in service of something.

Be it the story or gameplay.

For The Last of Us, the zombies are an obvious necessarily evil in service of the gameplay. (Naughty Dog said this themselves, that they would have preferred to make a game entirely without the zombies and instead just have had an looming outbreak as a set drop. But this wasn't fun)

On second thought however, it is in service of something. It's in service of fulfilling young male adolescents power fantasy.

I find it laughable that people in this forum are pointing to bare chested muscled men as some sort of equivalent to the objectification of the women being displayed because all that is doing is reinforcing the power fantasy the game provides. (Depicting the male as powerful and the women as voluptuous).

I guess it's entirely open to your interpretation on what the purpose of this is:
original.png
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But to me it's pretty obvious. That's not to say that there isn't some enjoyment to be found in this game, I just wish personally it didn't go down the (in my opinion) lazy route.
 
phanboy4 said:
If there's a meaningful reason to draw cartoonishly massive boobs on something that isn't 'BECAUSE I'M A GUY AND I THINK THIS IS SEXY' or for comedic purposes, nobody's come up with it yet.
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I'm not going to look it up but Mr. Kitamani basically explained the idea behind the character designs.. I am sure he does find it sexy, judging by his other art pieces...but to say its the only reason or he's pandering is annoying as hell.

If he truly was just pandering, then this game wouldn't look like this...it's would be moe uggu kawaiiiii senpai stuff instead..that's what's hot in the Pandering Streets breh.
 
This whole topic is nuts... more people should just watch my paper puppet show in my review... that should make everyone happy :D

But really... holy cow. I mean this is advertising for Atlus, just hope it doesn't turn bad on them. *edit* Also how come Witcher 2 didn't have this kind of criticism aimed at it?
 
IHaveCandy said:
Nope. Breasts are a trigger of sexual arousal because they indicate fertility and a capability to nurture offsprings. They are not a sex organ. They are not responsible for sexual acts or necessary for intercourse.
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Yeah, my bad in that regard (as I was thinking about being a organ that gives pleasure)... but they are hardly just FAT
 
phanboy4 said:
If there's a meaningful reason to draw cartoonishly massive boobs on something that isn't 'BECAUSE I'M A GUY AND I THINK THIS IS SEXY' or for comedic purposes, nobody's come up with it yet.
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There is a very valid reason. Because he felt like it i think. Does breast size in video games have to go through the Hipster police before the game can be released friend?
 
TheChillyAcademic said:
For gods sake what games are you playing? For every Kratos or Chris Redfield there are plenty of Nathan Drakes and Joel's. Men are rarely bare chested and unfathomably chiseled, most protags these days are your "everyday joes" or some form of "military bro dude #938". I do not understand this argument.

Are you saying that less than 5% of the men playing these games are attractive men or muscular? And are you saying being overtly muscular is the only definition of a man being attractive?
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For every Nathan Drake and Joel there is an Alyx Vance, Elena Fisher, Jade (Beyond Good and Evil), etc. etc. What is your point?
 
TheBaronOfNA said:
Dude, breasts ARE sex organs in the female anatomy
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No they aren't, they are simply secondary sexual characteristics. Large breasts are just a physiological response to large amounts of oestrogen in the system, in much the same way that muscle and body hair growth responds to Testosterone.

Both these hormones are present in both sexes, just at different levels.
 
Jomjom said:
I disagree. The male equivalent is the fit guy with muscles because that is the part of the male physique that is shown in public that many women will be attracted to, just as the outline of breasts and the butt are often used in the public to attract males. No male outfit shows a huge dick just jiggling around. If you asked any woman, very very few will tell you that seeing a "huge wiggly dick" is attractive, while many women will swoon over a lean six-pack and defined biceps.

For women, many outfits are designed to show cleavage or to be tight to accentuate the buttocks or the cleavage in public. Those features are also what many men will point to as physical features that are attractive to the eyes.
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Eh the wiggly dick does help, believe it or not.

That being said, I just don't see enough of said men as examples to leverage as a counterpoint to the MASSIVE amount of female oversexualization in certain games.
 
Riposte said:
It is unfortunate how these threads are rarely about mechanics, or even overall atmosphere. I did ask some questions about how the game plays in the OT, but they've gone unanswered. So, I give up.
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That's because no one likes you.

Kidding. I actually prefer this thread blow up, so people forget the OT exists. Shhh
 
Vire said:
I wouldn't have a problem with the huge jiggly tits if they were in service of something.

Be it the story or gameplay.

For The Last of Us, the zombies are an obvious necessarily evil in service of the gameplay. (Naughty Dog said this themselves, that they would have preferred to make a game entirely without the zombies and instead just have had an looming outbreak as a set drop. But this wasn't fun)

On second thought however, it is in service of something. It's in service of fulfilling young male adolescents power fantasy.

I find it laughable that people in this forum are pointing to bare chested muscled men as some sort of equivalent to the objectification of the women being displayed because all that is doing is reinforcing the power fantasy the game provides. (Depicting the male as powerful and the women as voluptuous).

I guess it's entirely open to your interpretation on what the purpose of this is:


But to me it's pretty obvious. That's not to say that there isn't some enjoyment to be found in this game, I just wish personally it didn't go down the (in my opinion) lazy route.
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What if I made a video game that had the coolest character ever. She was smart, funny, independent. Her character was perfect in every way to you. I also happened to give her very large breasts. Maybe that's just how I wanted her to look. I mean, I had to make her look like something, right? So I decided her breasts would be large. Some women have large breasts, obviously. I saw nothing wrong with making her breasts large, because why couldn't a large breasted women be very smart, funny, and cool in general. Would you have a problem with this?
 
TheChillyAcademic said:
Likely due to perceived objectification of a female for no other reason than the ability to do so.
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It's just classic fantasy, with some exaggerated Japanese flare thrown in. At
it's core, it is based in themes like old Frank Frazetta and Boris Vallejo.

Frank%20Frazetta%20-%20Icon%20-%2021.jpg


Vbv_86-01.jpg


boris-vallejo-15.jpg


jwYearTwoBorisVallejowall007.jpg


This sort of classic fantasy with some Japanese flavor is all they were going for. I just don't see why it should be protested, when works like this are not. As many violent games as I play, I am far more offended by something like civilians getting killed rather than some big, cartoony boobs, but that's just me.
 
Vire said:
I wouldn't have a problem with the huge jiggly tits if they were in service of something.

Be it the story or gameplay.

For The Last of Us, the zombies are an obvious necessarily evil in service of the gameplay. (Naughty Dog said this themselves, that they would have preferred to make a game entirely without the zombies and instead just have had an looming outbreak as a set drop. But this wasn't fun)

On second thought however, it is in service of something. It's in service of fulfilling young male adolescents power fantasy.

I find it laughable that people in this forum are pointing to bare chested muscled men as some sort of equivalent to the objectification of the women being displayed because all that is doing is reinforcing the power fantasy the game provides. (Depicting the male as powerful and the women as voluptuous).

I guess it's entirely open to your interpretation on what the purpose of this is:


But to me it's pretty obvious. That's not to say that there isn't some enjoyment to be found in this game, I just wish personally it didn't go down the (in my opinion) lazy route.
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That dude really seems powerful. I mean look at his arms!
 
Vire said:
I find it laughable that people in this forum are pointing to bare chested muscled men as some sort of equivalent to the objectification of the women being displayed because all that is doing is reinforcing the power fantasy the game provides. (Depicting the male as powerful and the women as voluptuous).
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Are the women in the game not also powerful? The Amazon supposedly has the highest DPS in the game.
 
IHaveCandy said:
What if I made a video game that had the coolest character ever. She was smart, funny, independent. Her character was perfect in every way to you. I also happened to give her very large breasts. Maybe that's just how I wanted her to look. I mean, I had to make her look like something, right? So I decided her breasts would be large. Some women have large breasts, obviously. I saw nothing wrong with making her breasts large, because why couldn't a large breasted women be very smart, funny, and cool in general. Would you have a problem with this?
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No not at all, I wouldn't have problem with it as long as it didn't make a point to show her in seductive poses, scantily clothed and have her breasts jiggle every two seconds.

If she was simply a person with large breasts, so be it.
 
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