BEYOND: Two Souls | SPOILER THREAD | SPOILER everywhere!!!

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There wouldn't be any spoiler tag here. Spoiler to your heart's content!

If you're looking for the normal, minimal spoiler OT - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=688865
Also, the usual rules still apply:

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WARNING | Mods will be informed of those who trolls the thread.

1. This is not a thread to tell others that you are one of those special snowflakes who hate QTEs and David Cage. Spread your winter wonderland elsewhere and make your own thread.
2. We also don't want to hear about your definition of a "game" in this thread. And whether or not this title fits in it. You want 'real' gameplay? Go play "Tetris", I highly recommend it.
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4. Concerned about the direction of gaming industry? Good. But do it elsewhere! Also, a few games with unusual gameplay will not change how other developers make their games.​
 
Yay finished it yesterday and made the choice to live in the real world.

Didn't kill her mom with Aiden because the woman in our group didn't want me to, saved Cole, let Nathan kill himself and be okay with everything.

Tried the four different choices which I got with Ryan, Jay, Zoey and alone. Was surprised that Zoeys Daugther and Jodie are fighting against the portals or the infraworld. Wow. Beyond Two Souls 2? And Aiden is a funny guy. :-) called the twist!
 
I also finished the game a few hours ago. The ending was surprisingly heavy and sort of satisfying. Nice to know the truth about Aiden and am glad it wasn't spoiled for me before I beat the game.
 
Because of the last scene where Jodie is watching new York or whatever city is being taken over by the shadow stuff. Will we see a sequel?
 
Didn't you play that level where he comes to Jodie's apartment with a bottle of wine?

Yes, I've tried every option there and I choose the kiss option, get to her bed, and then she makes him stop. Im wondering if this is tied to the rape scene when you are a teenager and the choice you make there. I killed all of those guys in the bar.
 
Yes, I've tried every option there and I choose the kiss option, get to her bed, and then she makes him stop. Im wondering if this is tied to the rape scene when you are a teenager and the choice you make there. I killed all of those guys in the bar.
Hmm, not sure about that. The bar scene for me was pretty uneventful, nothing really happened. Maybe you need to send Aiden to another room in order to have sex with Ryan? I remember she said thanks to Aiden in my game.
 
Yes, I've tried every option there and I choose the kiss option, get to her bed, and then she makes him stop. Im wondering if this is tied to the rape scene when you are a teenager and the choice you make there. I killed all of those guys in the bar.

What, which bar? I slept with Ryan too. Didn't do anything special other than cooking, cleaning, arguing with Aiden, showering and choosing the sexy dress (which wasn't sexy at all)
 
Hmm, not sure about that. The bar scene for me was pretty uneventful, nothing really happened. Maybe you need to send Aiden to another room in order to have sex with Ryan? I remember she said thanks to Aiden in my game.

Hmm, I will try leaving the room with Aiden then, but then you can't hear the conversation. In my bar scene I slapped the dude who tried to play pool with me, and then he put me up on the pool table and tried to rape me. I had to possess one of the guys with Aiden, get his gun and I killed the other guys with him and then blew the guy's brains out I was controlling with his own gun.

What, which bar? I slept with Ryan too. Didn't do anything special other than cooking, cleaning, arguing with Aiden, showering and choosing the sexy dress (which wasn't sexy at all)

The bar you go to as a teenager where you are dressed punk rockish.
 
Hmm, I will try leaving the room with Aiden then, but then you can't hear the conversation. In my bar scene I slapped the dude who tried to play pool with me, and then he put me up on the pool table and tried to rape me. I had to possess one of the guys with Aiden, get his gun and I killed the other guys with him and then blew the guy's brains out I was controlling with his own gun.



The bar you go to as a teenager where you are dressed punk rockish.

Welp I missed this scene because I did something wrong... or rather my friend playing as Aiden lol
 
Only half way through, but man I gotta say, a lot of Child Jodie's dialogue is reallllllllllllly bad. She just keeps saying things that I in no way believe a little child would ever say, yeesh. Like the "lion in a cage" line is just so...no David Cage, bad David Cage!
 
Okay I did every damn think perfectly in Jodie's apartment. I turned on romantic music, I left the room as aiden and never interrupted them, I wore the sexy outfit, I made the food perfectly, I lit candles, and I chose the kiss option and she still stops him from having sex. I don't know what else I can do. I even tried not making dinner and he just gets pissed and leaves and she sits there sad while aiden consoles her lol
 
Damn, I miss that bar scene!

About the sex scene, I did nothing special (cleaning, cooking, sexy clothes) and got it.
 
For you guys that got sex, did you mess with stuff in the room until Jodie takes aiden into the other room or did you leave them alone the entire time?
 
I've finished the game.

Beyond is the most engaging story I've seen in a video game (more than The Walking Dead or Deadly Premonition, which are two of my favorite games ever) and it has a lot to do with the main character.

While the secondary characters aren't very fleshed out, I could relate to Jodie in many ways. The fact that you follow her through 15 years of her life, jumping back and forth in the timeline, gives you a sense of vertigo but it does make sense. Life isn't just one continuous line. It's made of smaller 'lives' and every now and then you become like a different person. You put on new clothes, change your hairstyle, you meet new people and your personality changes. Yet, in the end, you're still the same individual, with the same soul, thanks to your memory (an individual with no memory - such as a corpse- would have no identity).

But Beyond isn't solely about one person's life - it's about death itself, and I think David Cage's goal has been met. Beyond is how an atheist writer (Cage) re-imagines what happens after life. That's an ambitious goal but he tackled it with taste, emotion and poetry. The big choice in the last chapter is one of the most beautiful scenes I've seen in a video game, thanks to the concept artists, the musical score, Cage's direction and the spectacular events and climaxes that lead up to that point.

While Beyond felt slow (the Navajo and Mission chapters could have been shorter) and even tedious (the gameplay, while an improvement upon Heavy Rain's, still feels artificial and not mature yet), I was ultimately won over by the ending, which wrapped up the story in a satisfying fashion. The final choice may look trite to some people but in my opinion it's a good summary of the game's intention - it took that many years and tragedies for Jodie to decide whether life was worth living or not.

I suspect a majority of people would choose Life and so was my choice for the first playthrough. That part of the game was very interesting (as were many other) because the decision I took was based on my life and my personality. It wasn't just an 'A or B' choice just to see the 'X' or 'Y' cutscene. It actually made me think of what I would do if faced with such an alternative. I think that's one of David Cage's greatest achievements. I didn't buy Heavy Rain's slogan ('How far would you go to save someone you love?') because the story wasn't good enough in my opinion. Yet, somehow, Beyond hit the spot for me.

The last chapter isn't the sole example of choices resonating with my (and possibly other players') personal life. Since I identified with Jodie from the beginning (I like to picture her as a misunderstood, introverted girl or even an ISTP, aka the Silent Badass personality type, just like me) and I'm pretty much a lonely individual (few acquaintances, no true friends, no relationships) I made the choices that seemed logical to me (i.e. Jodie had to be an eternal loner). I made Aiden scare Ryan away, made Jodie tell Ryan she didn't love him and chose the ending where Jodie lived alone. It made sense to me because it felt like Jodie finally accepted the fact that she's different (instead of fighting her own nature, causing awkwardness and disaster in the process, as in the Anniversary chapter) and that's what I'm trying to do at this point in my life - trying to appreciate the freedom of being alone, accepting the fact I'm an introvert instead of being ashamed and forcing myself into social situations (if I had embraced my personality sooner I wouldn't have spent years feeling 'anormal' and ashamed of myself, even thinking of suicide more than once).

For my second playthrough I intend to play Jodie as a totally depressed, self-destructive nihilist. I intend to take revenge on the teenagers at the Anniversary, sleeping with Ryan out of madness and desperation (and forgiving him because who cares about Somalia), helping Nathan with his research because why the hell not, and eventually choosing the Infraworld.

I won't give a grade to Beyond: Two Souls because I'm not sure I can review it on the typical criteria people apply to video games. One can certainly pinpoint many technical flaws or plot holes in it. People may even say it isn't a game (yet there were many sequences that were almost pure gameplay, especially in that long underwater chapter near the end of the game) but to me it was a special experience which I happened to take personally. Had I not been able to relate to Jodie, I don't know if I would have appreciated the game as much. But it did hit close to home and the main philosophical theme was very ambitious (it's about life and death, no less). As a result, I don't know if Beyond is my favorite game ever, but it certainly is the most important to me. It makes the zombies in The Last of Us and The Walking Dead or the time-travelling shenanigans in Bioshock Infinite feel like pointless exercises in escapism. Those games are held in high regard (The Walking Dead being the only one I consider good) but not life-changing. Beyond: Two Souls touches life itself in a way no other game has - well, Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, (which creatures look similar to Beyond's 'monsters') sort of had interesting ideas about the afterlife, and so did Final Fantasy X, but they're not all that convincing.

Finally, I would like to thank David Cage and the main actors for the incredible amount of work they have put into that game - I can only imagine how much. There was a lot of dialogue, a lot of scenes and the acting as well as the animation were always convincing. Ellen Page and Willem Dafoe are incredibly talented and they carry the whole game on their shoulders. Fortunately, Cage was competent enough to make good use of that talent.

Congratulations, Quantic Dream. See you on Playstation 4.
 
Does anyone else get the mention about the bar after getting off the phone about coming over from Aiden. I think my actions there ruined my shot to have sex.
 
Beat it last night, amazing game, one of my favorite stories in history.

Loved the non-linear pacing of if, which made for some super cool scenerios.

Can't nail down a favorite, but the snow to sub to base to abyss-style ocean floor walking was so good.
 
Thought there was no nudity in this game? What's this about a sexy sex scene?

It skips from the kissing-on-the-bed scene straight to the morning after. No nudity.

Edit: At first I thought the depiction of the Chinese army was xenophobic at best but now that I think of it, the CIA and US army guys are just as bad (assassinating a Somalian politician, kidnapping children, practically killing their mother, etc.)
 
Ok, the sex on date night WAS linked to what happens in the bar. I had to go back and play through like 4 missions. I was able to skip going to the bar by never choosing the speak option when Aiden is controlling Cole. She gets caught this way and Cole snaps out of Aiden's possession. Along the way I also had to redo the Navajo mission and I found out you can keep Paul alive! Went into the bedroom after the sand demon attacks him and healed him. Next up I need to redo the homeless mission and see what happens when it gives you the option to kill yourself. I always chose never to jump off the ledge or slit your wrists.
 
After seeing some of these choices I need to do another full playthrough. I also want to see what happens if you give up the info during the torture scene. I wonder if Ryan still has the eye patch after that?
 
Am i the only one who hated the ending and how they developed Nathan? I mean its like they did at the sake of having a twist and just as expectable from Cage's terrible writing. I would prefer one impressive ending instead of 20 different stupid endings. Also about the writing, i liked HR in that regard despite its flaws but this? Its pretty horrible most of the time.
 
. Next up I need to redo the homeless mission and see what happens when it gives you the option to kill yourself. I always chose never to jump off the ledge or slit your wrists.

I'll spoiler tag it in case you wanna find out for yourself, but if you wanna save the time -

Nothing happens, Jodie gets really upset and tries to do it both times, and Aiden stops her. He hits the knife out of her hands when she starts to cut, and pulls her back up when she jumps. Pretty depressing moments for Jodie, really sad stuff.
 
Am i the only one who hated the ending and how they developed Nathan? I mean its like they did at the sake of having a twist and just as expectable from Cage's terrible writing. I would prefer one impressive ending instead of 20 different stupid endings. Also about the writing, i liked HR in that regard despite its flaws but this? Its pretty horrible most of the time.

Well I figured they had to do something like this, otherwise it would have been a waste of Willem Dafoe. Up until that point he had just played a sympathetic father like figure to her that really didn't have that much dialogue. The problem with it was that they didn't build it up really enough. Going crazy in the last chapter and only appearing for a couple of months after that doesn't really let the character flesh out more. I found it pretty cool that he either shoots you or he shoots himself though inside the black sun.

I'll spoiler tag it in case you wanna find out for yourself, but if you wanna save the time -

Nothing happens, Jodie gets really upset and tries to do it both times, and Aiden stops her. He hits the knife out of her hands when she starts to cut, and pulls her back up when she jumps. Pretty depressing moments for Jodie, really sad stuff.

Bummer, it really seems like there aren't that many things that have a long lasting affect on the storyline here except for getting in that bar fight and then not being able to have sex with Ryan. Also seems like the number of endings is somewhat exaggerated, because I think 8 of the endings on the live side are just the same 4 choosing who you want to end up with, with Cole or without Cole depending on if you let him live or die and 2 on the death choice are the same except with a Cole segment if he lives and not one if he doesn't. That seems to be it unless someone else has experienced something different?
 
Ok, the sex on date night WAS linked to what happens in the bar. I had to go back and play through like 4 missions. I was able to skip going to the bar by never choosing the speak option when Aiden is controlling Cole. She gets caught this way and Cole snaps out of Aiden's possession. Along the way I also had to redo the Navajo mission and I found out you can keep Paul alive! Went into the bedroom after the sand demon attacks him and healed him. Next up I need to redo the homeless mission and see what happens when it gives you the option to kill yourself. I always chose never to jump off the ledge or slit your wrists.


So if you choose the "save" option when replaying a chapter and change various choices, can you then skip ahead to later missions with the new changes in place or do you need to replay the entire game from where you selected to start saving again?
 
So if you choose the "save" option when replaying a chapter and change various choices, can you then skip ahead to later missions with the new changes in place or do you need to replay the entire game from where you selected to start saving again?

Haven't been brave enough to try yet lol. That's why I played through all of the chapters after the sneak out teen one until the date one.I don't want to be stuck early in the game again. I think I will do another play through though just to see how some of the earlier choices affect the rest of the game.
 
K all done, im exhausted so im just going to say that the ending was so heavy it felt great, especially the "still here" in the sand, really got me.

If this wasnt a david cage game id say we would get a sequel because of the ending but it is a david cage game, so there goes that lol ( i dont mind).
 
K all done, im exhausted so im just going to say that the ending was so heavy it felt great, especially the "still here" in the sand, really got me.

If this wasnt a david cage game id say we would get a sequel because of the ending but it is a david cage game, so there goes that lol ( i dont mind).

That ending felt like the real ending of the game. Also the ending when you choose beyond instead of life and save Cole is also nice when she writes little princess on his monitor.
 
reposting from the main thread:

Really wanted to finish this by Monday, but it's starting to feel like a real chore to get through. I'm near the end at 'The Mission', and I've almost totally lost interest in this character. Cage does some fantastic mo-cap work, and there are points where visually, the game is a knock out.

However, I don't feel like i'm getting even the illusion of choice in this game. Cage wasn't kidding when he said that that there's no real death state, which makes the stealth sections in this game a joke.

It's the overall story that irks me more than the the technical or design foibles, which are really questionable.

This late in the game, and I'm still asking, "Why am I doing this?", and, "Why Should I care?" Jodie is weak, and far too often the damsel in distress. She's a largely uncommunicative character, who remains at odds and distrustful with the people closest to her, and even the entity Aiden, who is the co-star of the game.

She has struggled, and faced melodramatic mounds of betrayal most of her life. It's a journey that's tediously chronicled as we play snippets of it throughout the course of the game. Following a haunted young child, to an awkward teen, to an isolated adult woman finding her footing would've been a really fascinating experience if the player was given even the illusion that our choices throughout the game brought us to these places, but instead, Cage drags us along showing us moments in Jodie's life that he feels are important, but are emotionally distant for the player. At least for me.

Cage misses key marks frequently here.

Take for example, a potentially romantic date late in the game between adult Jodie and another character. We're charged as the possessive spirit, Aiden, the jealous spectre who has bonded with Jodie and has protected her throughout the game. During the date, you're given the option to wreck any chance at love, by being an ass and scaring the date away. In the end of the scene, after the date is ruined, anguished Jodie screams her hatred of Aiden for destroying everything.

How much more effective would it have been, I wondered, if Jodie began to yell at YOU, the gamer, directly? I consciously wanted to be mischievous, knowing how important this was to Jodie. There was a pretty easy disconnect for me. It was easy to blame my actions and any guilt on Aiden, not myself, which might have been different had the player been messaged directly into camera as Aiden. The mocap technology and beautiful texturing would've made this eerily effective. Milo come true.

Cage dances around sexism clumsily. You're playing a female lead, but at every opportunity, she's walking around in panties and a bra, or taking a shower that, while not showing nudity, begins to feel a little voyeuristic. Why are we lingering with her at all? The extended sequences of her drying herself, barely covered by a strategically placed towel, or letting the water run through her hair as the camera pans just before we begin to see the curves of her form, aren't moments of catharsis, but sexual innuendo.
We, not Aiden, watches as she strips into a fresh change of clothes, or walks around in her low cut shorts that are inappropriate for her dinner guest, but not for us, the audience.

More, Jodie is incredibly weak and squeamish, yelping and jumping at every sudden bump or fright, despite a significant portion of the game going towards her military training. Yet, this is the same girl that can enter a heavily armed African military town and single-handedly take on any adversaries with a rapid one-two take down and a little spectral assist.

To be fair, there are portions of the game that really work. "Navajo", for example, takes Jodie on an unexpected, albeit cliched spirit quest to find herself. It's tired territory handled surprisingly well, providing a somewhat intimate look at a family dynamic and culture that we don't often see in video gaming.

There's also "homeless", which, like Navajo, tries to handle the material with a fair bit of weight, and feels like a deliberate inclusion to, perhaps, broaden the perspectives of an audience that too often doesn't see the lives of the less entitled. It's a brief, and somewhat pivotal portion of the narrative, that the game could've used a whole lot more off, while trimming a great deal from the action portions.

I could go on for pages about the game, but I really should finish it.

And i really don't want to.

Much of what I liked in my early impressions, has faded. Context sensitive directional movements don't always match up with the direction you naturally think they should go. The result? Botched timing sequences during action heavy moments. It's good thing you literally cannot die.

The more spectacular battles with the sci-fi elements of the game are a cacophony of visual inkblots filling the screen with confusion, masking the tiniest of action prompts often lost in the center of the screen. Again, it's a good thing that Cage minimized the action to three basic command gestures ... which makes battles weightless and boring.

I could go on and on about the wasted potential of Aiden. How the ability to control people and objects through a distance is a fantastic mechanic that follows absolutely zero narrative rhyme or reason. There's an absurd inconsistency about where and when it can be used. Some guys you can mind control. Some guys can be forced to shoot other people. Some guys can only shoot themselves. Sometimes you can shake metal cans. Sometimes you can't. Sometimes you can blow electronic devices, sometimes you can't move a lamp two feet in front of you.

What a fantastic game this would've been if you had the same options, consistently, ALL the time. Again, the illusion of choice goes a long way.
 
. Also seems like the number of endings is somewhat exaggerated, because I think 8 of the endings on the live side are just the same 4 choosing who you want to end up with, with Cole or without Cole depending on if you let him live or die and 2 on the death choice are the same except with a Cole segment if he lives and not one if he doesn't. That seems to be it unless someone else has experienced something different?

the ' 23 endings' claim is abuse of language ,really.
There is 23 small scenes including your endings + the different paths the side characters you met followed.
 
just finished. The ending managed to be better than the parts holding it down.

A large part of the game (about 70%) is just laying out the background, preparing for what comes next (it almost drags, especially the Navajo chapter), then everything speeds up and shit gets real in the last few hours. But damn if the ending is not thrilling. It brought the perfect conclusion to Jodie's story.
 
A large part of the game (about 70%) is just laying out the background, preparing for what comes next (it almost drags, especially the Navajo chapter), then everything speeds up and shit gets real in the last few hours. But damn if the ending is not thrilling. It brought the perfect conclusion to Jodie's story.

That's interesting because the Navajo chapter is where I actually started appreciating the game. It foreshadowed things to come, even more than the first attack on the installation. Also, it was one of the first times in the game where I felt Jodie was actively in control of her life, and not being manipulated by someone. She was learning about herself and actually growing. I finally began to enjoy it.

The ending - at least the one I chose, was excellent. I chose to go with Aiden into the light. Everyone ended up well enough, but I was a little disappointed that there was no more mention of the two Navajo brothers. I brought my own personal biases into the game in a few places, sure, but I really wanted Jodie to end up back at the ranch. I *really* didn't want her to end up with Ryan, and spurned him at every turn.

Cage did a very interesting thing with forcing guys to play as a woman, and forced us to make decisions based on emotional connections rather than action oriented ones. Being a hetero male, It was awkward for me - at first- to do things that forced Jodie into even a pseudo-sexual emotional situation. Case in point: The teenage party.

However, later, I actually really wanted Jodie to kiss the Navajo dude because they were both good people, and the emotions seemed genuine and earned.

Later still, when I'm forced to make the decision about whether i actually 'feel' anything for Ryan (after the sub mission, after the decision to start a new life, then finally in the ultimate choice), I applaud Cage for giving me all of the tools necessary for me to make a real decision, and not one forced on me at the whims of the writer. For what it's worth, *my* Jodie began to reluctantly like Ryan, but could not honestly say that she loved him no matter how many sacrifices he made. That's quite a feat for the writer to force me to connect in this way!

Beyond the relationship melodrama, however, the fact that Cage made a credible story about the supernatural and being 'haunted', is pretty impressive. Still, I think that the game could've (and probably should've) gone in an entirely different direction than the utilizing the military. Every time that story reared up, I never believed any of it.

Dragon summed it up beautifully in the other thread, though. This game is a series of vignettes without any direction or purpose until the last quarter of the game. Only then does it begin to make sense. VERY challenging, but now that I've finished it, I'm not sure that the story would've worked linearly.
 
So can someone explain what Aiden actually is?


I'm not going to play the game, I just want to know that detail.
 
So can someone explain what Aiden actually is?


I'm not going to play the game, I just want to know that detail.

The real question is "what are the monsters?"

Aiden is Jodie's stillborn twin brother. This reveal happens at the very end of the game. He protects her from things in our world, and from things BEYOND, that Cage hints at, but doesn't get into in this game. A sequel might be coming.
 
The real question is "what are the monsters?"

Aiden is Jodie's stillborn twin brother. This reveal happens at the very end of the game. He protects her from things in our world, and from things BEYOND, that Cage hints at, but doesn't get into in this game. A sequel might be coming.

Oh wow I just made a short story with the concept of Aiden and wow. This is exactly the same.
 
The Navajo chapter was pretty good. Not so much fun the second play through though since it was so long. I learned you can save Paul the second play through at least.
 
Would you have preferred Aiden to be something less predictable?

Nah, it's just funny because Cage is hack writer.


It came to me when I saw the scene where Jodie delivers the baby. Oh--You cut the umbilical cord, it's foreshadowing for severing the link with Aiden(cause Aiden and Jodie are linked by a literal cord). Aiden's been with Jodie her whole life--since she was a baby--probably her sibling. Obviously the details I'm sure varied from what I predicted somewhat.

So yeah, it's hilarious.
 
FUCK!!!!!I'm stuck at the end choosing between beyond or life...... I'm guessing beyond is Jodie sacrificing herself? this is one hard damn choice and my game is sitting paused at this moment, but damn this game brought so many tears to my eyes, we need a video game Oscar award because Ellen Page is amazing.
 
FUCK!!!!!I'm stuck at the end choosing between beyond or life...... I'm guessing beyond is Jodie sacrificing herself? this is one hard damn choice and my game is sitting paused at this moment, but damn this game brought so many tears to my eyes, we need a video game Oscar award because Ellen Page is amazing.

You can play the last level over and over from the chapter select screen. First time I played I chose life.
 
Yeah, it's more sad then I was hoping............. man I'm crying watching it...... damn these emotional games.

Yeah I cared too much about the character to choose anything other than life. Dont see how anyone could choose death other than just to watch all the endings. She's had a hard life especially if you make some of the rougher choices in the game though..
 
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