Can't account for injuries.
Also Boston is toast this year, so it's even less of a problem for the Heat than before.
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2012-13 Dec NBA Season lOT2l It Wasn't Me, It Was Uncle Drew
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
Can't account for injuries.
Also Boston is toast this year, so it's even less of a problem for the Heat than before.
Syphon Filter
Member
soulplaya would agree with this.
greatestjediever
Member
Wow I didn't see that Collison end of regulation shot until now. I would've stabbed Mayo right afterwards for wasting that miraculous shot (and incredible game).
captmcblack
Member
KD is better than Melo. It's not an argument. The gap isn't some crazy gap, but it's there.
But Melo is an MVP candidate this year, and that's not an argument either.
Top players in the league this year are:
LBJ
KD
CP3
Melo
Kobe
Harden just misses that top 5 thusfar. Kobe can't be in front of Melo because his team isn't winning yet.
RE: the Bulls, that DEFENSE means that gutting the bench wasn't that much of a problem anyway. If Rose comes back even 75% of himself, they might go off in the second half.
But Melo is an MVP candidate this year, and that's not an argument either.
Top players in the league this year are:
LBJ
KD
CP3
Melo
Kobe
Harden just misses that top 5 thusfar. Kobe can't be in front of Melo because his team isn't winning yet.
RE: the Bulls, that DEFENSE means that gutting the bench wasn't that much of a problem anyway. If Rose comes back even 75% of himself, they might go off in the second half.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Why would it be? We got to see one of the GOAT playoff games of all time, close them out, and beat the cream of the western crop 4 straight times.
Yes, he would.
It's OK, though. I've moved onto bigger and better things. Lakers are making the WCF, right?
Yeah, if you started watching basketball in 2010.
iamshadowlark
Banned
...
jobber
Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
did you not see LeBron vs. the Pistons in 07?
CP3 does not belong on this list. Ugh, PGs are so overrated..
BTW here's a new stat for the Kobe haters:
http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/2012-13/index.html
No, you and your curse are overrated.
And yet they went on a 5 game win streak where he averaged 30+...
iamshadowlark
Banned
Retroactively, but yeah.
But he never crossed the new 35pt threshold even though they won when he shot 41 times!
Wait, so you really only started watching basketball since 2010?
MorisUkunRasik
Member
How could someone who has watched Chris Duhon and Darius Morris take turns fucking themselves on a court for the past few weeks not appreciate great PG play?
Your fellow fans are praying for Steve Blake's speedy recovery STEVE BLAKE! Nash has had a huge influence on The Lakers since his return and he's old as fuck.
Konex.....stahp
Syphon Filter
Member
trolol
iamshadowlark
Banned
I was on a field trip for my job.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Since birth til 2010?
I appreciate good PG play but I'm not going to give one guy credit for another guy making his fucking shots! Just because our PGs suck doesn't mean CP3 is a legitimate MVP candidate.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Harden vs. CP3 in terms of who has been more valuable would be interesting in that CP3 is probably better per minute and per possession, but Harden has to play way more and use more possessions which would naturally make him more important to the Rockets winning than CP3 is to the Clippers winning.
Then again, you can say that about most great players on great teams versus great players on average teams which is why MVP is kind of a weird award in the NBA. The more good players there are on a team, the less value each individual player has because there's only one ball.
Then again, you can say that about most great players on great teams versus great players on average teams which is why MVP is kind of a weird award in the NBA. The more good players there are on a team, the less value each individual player has because there's only one ball.
captmcblack
Member
How could CP3 not count?
His ability to facilitate the offense is otherworldly. PGs aren't overrated when they play like he does. This isn't like some empty stats thing, like the legend of prime Marbury's 20 and 8.
His ability to facilitate the offense is otherworldly. PGs aren't overrated when they play like he does. This isn't like some empty stats thing, like the legend of prime Marbury's 20 and 8.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Just skimmed the thread.
Konex is scared as fuck of the Clips.
The thought of CP3 chipping in Kobe's house has him shook.
Konex is scared as fuck of the Clips.
The thought of CP3 chipping in Kobe's house has him shook.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
MVP discussions not involving KD or Bron aren't worth anyone's breath anyway. I think Lebron is the clear leader at this point in the season.
Psychological Intellect
Banned
man Harden has been playing fucking fanatastic lately.
He's becoming more and more consistent.
He's becoming more and more consistent.
Also, what "huge influence" is Nash having exactly?. He is another legit scorer/shooter that we desperately needed and his PnR with Dwight is nice but I'm not seeing this "huge influence" yet.
Everyone is giving him kudos for his intangibles but are we scoring more with him? Nope. Less turnovers? Nope. Better FG% I doubt it.
Someone please show me how Nash has "completely changed" this team? Don't get me wrong, he is a great addition..but that's mostly because his backups are fucking terrible!
Everyone is giving him kudos for his intangibles but are we scoring more with him? Nope. Less turnovers? Nope. Better FG% I doubt it.
Someone please show me how Nash has "completely changed" this team? Don't get me wrong, he is a great addition..but that's mostly because his backups are fucking terrible!
http://www.82games.com/1213/1213LAC.HTM
That will look worse for CP3's case when it's updated this week..
Psychological Intellect
Banned
How legit is that chart because when I see this:
I can't help but think that it's broken.
Red Blaster
Member
Can we burn the last 3 pages of this thread
How legit is that chart because when I see this:
I can't help but think that it's broken.
Obviously folks who barely play should be discounted cos their stats are skewed. Those numbers show that LeBron (by far), Bosh and Wade have the most impact for Miami. On the other hand, the Clippers are KILLING teams with CP3 off the court. That is just a fact..
Are you seriously pulling individual +/- out of your ass when it's known not to stabilize until a player's career is basically over?
iamshadowlark
Banned
This is the second time you've posted this arbitrary set of stats. What exactly are they supposed to prove?
The Clippers are KILLING teams with CP3 off the court. That is just a fact..
MorisUkunRasik
Member
You got to be kidding.
Even from an individual stats perspective guess who is who, 2 are Duhon and Morris during Nash's injury and 1 is the games Nash has played since injury.
5pts 4 asts 41% from 3, 44% overall
5pts 2 asts 40% from 3, 37% overall
14pts 9 asts 66% from 3, 64% overall
Yea Nash's is a small sample size but...he's Steve fucking Nash.
gtfo.
CP3 has always been disrespected. why is this? because he flops?
Whether it's people saying DWill was better couple years ago or people ignoring how he took shitty Hornets teams to the playoffs and having shitty overrated PGs like Rondo and Westbrook being considered better
you can't sit there and tell me this team would even be a winning team without CP3. but Kobe gets an MVP nod for leading his team to a sub .500?
Syphon Filter
Member
lol at harden being a candidate.
Yeah, if you're going to use stats to prove a point at least go to basketball reference.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAC/2013.html#advanced::20
Highest win share on his team by far. Offensive rating is highest by far too.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAC/2013.html#advanced::20
Highest win share on his team by far. Offensive rating is highest by far too.
Konex, even ignoring for the moment the fact that the stat is largely useless over a single season for a single player (it will tell you who sucks and who doesn't suck, but that's about it), who do you think is usually on court when CP3 is off it? The rest of the starters, or the bench? The other team's starters, or the other team's bench? The Clippers have a well-above average bench that blows out other teams' benches, but that doesn't actually make them better players than the starters.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Literally no one expects that. Even the least engaged Lakers-age members knew if our starters weren't 100% then they'd struggle.
Dwight isn't Dwight, Nash has played 4 games only 2 under the new offense and Pau is falling apart.
Only Kobe and Metta have shown up 100% this year.
Yes, individually Nash is much better than his backups. We all know that. I've been told he's "turned the team around in 3 games!" I don't see it. He is a good role player..period.
I would say Crawford is easily the 3rd best player on that team and Barnes and Bledsoe have a case for top 5.
CP3 is not even in the same league as Kobe as an offensive player and will never be. That stat is obviously skewed for high assist guys. BOGUS
That's called optimizing your line-ups. The same way that Manu is a starting caliber 2G but for strategic purposes, he plays off the bench.
ROLL FUCKING EYES. Stop (triple) posting.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Being twice as good as all the other PG options COMBINED isn't enough for you?
And who the fuck said he turned the team around? He gives them much more offensively while being slightly worse than Darrius on D and about as bad as Duhon.
Dwight returning to defensive anchor is the only thing that can save this team. People forget that he wasn't expected to even be on the court til January. I'm still not certain that Defensive Dwight will return in time for The Lakers to make a deep playoff run, but we'll see.
ratcliffja
Member
Exactly. Our bench is better than the starters of some teams, but they really shine when going up against other benches. If you've watched CP3 and Bledsoe play for any considerable amount of time and still think that Bledsoe is better, then I really don't know what to tell you. I guess your main beef with PGs is that they might prevent Kobe from taking more shots.
Just like defensive rating is skewed against guards, just like your 82games chart doesn't care about bench quality.
All sport stats are bogus if you just use them out of context to suit your narrative.
Supposing for the moment that this was true, which I am not saying it is, wouldn't the fact that they are coming in off the bench and facing relatively weak opposition in the form of the other team's bench inflate their stats absurdly? It's like comparing a prospect's numbers in the minor leagues in baseball to those of actual major leaguers playing against major league competition, and using that as proof that the prospect was better. Do you really not see the problem with that comparison?
That's the biggest reason individual simple +/- requires such a huge sample... it's way too easily affected by the quality of the team around you, your role on the team, and the opposition you face. To use another analogy from baseball, it's like looking at RBIs: if you have a lot of RBIs you're probably good, and if you have a terrible +/- you probably suck, but trying to compare players on that basis is pointless.