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2012 NBA Mar |OT2| The Manhattan Project Part II: Blow It All Up, Again

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V

Vahagn

Member
dIEHARD said:
Hey Vahagn what did you think of Favors / Kanter / Burks?
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They're good. Was Burks included in the D-Will deal or was it their own draft pick?


Regardless, Jefferson wasn't playing last night. I still believe what I believe, it's silly to have 4 of your 5 best players playing the same 2 positions. If D Will was forcing his way to NJ then you could justify that trade...but the way it was done...seemed poorly planned and a haste move in my opinion.


Also...watching that Jordan fadeaway mix you can immediately tell why he was more efficient. He's posting up 7-10 feet from the basket whereas kobe posts up 15-18 most of the time. Is it just poor offense or do the rule changes (zone defense, etc.) not really allow for such deep catches and the ability to work one on one.


Kobe's Fadeaways
 
M

MorisUkunRasik

Member
Black Mamba said:
I'm surprised no one made a puerto rican temper joke, yet.
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tumblr_lz5ei2ZnQc1qh01r8o1_500.gif
 
P

Puddles

Banned
CommonSense said:
Anybody else thinl Kobe tanked.that game because Fish was moved without him knowing?


*puts on tinfoil headband
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No, I think Kobe is just a really inconsistent shooter. He's probably one of the worst pure shooters in the NBA if he isn't hot. With his ability to shake defenders, he should be shooting 50% for his career.
 
C

CommonSense

Banned
BestGaf working on #stats this month

Number of arguments: 28

Accusations of racial profiling: 109

off topic posts: 56

Bans: 2 now 3

ClovingSteam fails: (I don't know how tp make infinity sign on this phone)

lol, love this thread!
 
H

Herpes Reasons

Banned
CommonSense said:
BestGaf working on #stats this month

Number of arguments: 28

Accusations of racial profiling: 109

off topic posts: 56

Bans: 2 now 3

ClovingSteam fails: (I don't know how tp make infinity sign on this phone)

lol, love this thread!
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are you saying nbaGAF's collective hivemind is that of lebron?
 
J

Jeff-DSA

Member
Fisher is such a dickhead. He's head of the player's union and all he's doing now is furthering the notion that NBA players are entitled brats. I hope nobody picks him up and he can just have his career end with a whimper.
 
D

Duki

Banned
They're clearly playing harder/looking happier under Woodson already. Just be advised that only two teams in the 16-team playoff era (starting in 1983-84) have changed coaches after the All-Star break and still won a playoff series: Dallas in '04-05 and New York in '95-96 ... and Don Nelson was the outgoing coach both times.

fuckin lol
 
V

Vahagn

Member
Puddles said:
No, I think Kobe is just a really inconsistent shooter. He's probably one of the worst pure shooters in the NBA if he isn't hot. With his ability to shake defenders, he should be shooting 50% for his career.
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What are you smoking? Kobe's one of the best pure shooters in the league. His mid range shooting numbers are always among the best in the league despite the fact that most his shots are fadeaways or heavily contested.


The difference between 45% and 50% shooting for someone who takes 20 shots a game (kobe's average) is the difference in making one more shot each game.


9/20 compared to 10/20. Kobe's made 3,000 + more threes in his career than michael jordan and taken roughly 10,000 more threes in his career. THAT'S the entire difference. That plus the fact that Jordan was a much better finisher around the rim, and most his shots and fadeaways came from closer in.


The difference between Kobe's TS% and Jordan's TS% is 1.5% Kobe's problem isn't his shot, Kobe's problem is that he's never been an amazing finisher around the rim. People like Jordan / Lebron are much better in the paint than kobe is and for some reason (probably because he's always played with people who clog up the paint in Shaq / Bynum / Pau...he shoots a lot more threes than Lebron does this year or Jordan did for his career) But that's normal back then, the Showtime Lakers used to shoot something like a 100 threes a season AS A TEAM
 
D

Duki

Banned
vag jordan was basically just a fair amount bigger and stronger than kobe

it basically explains every single thing you just described

its a pretty simple athletic advantage tbqh i dont know if theres a need to overanalyse it
 
V

Vahagn

Member
DY_nasty said:
Kobe is a pure shooter?

....sigh
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Depends how you define pure shooter. You're thinking of a catch and shoot guy or someone who makes free throws. Ray Allen is a much better shooter coming off screens, or catch and shoot...but put the ball in his hands and ask him to shoot a contested shot off the dribble, or a fadeaway over either shoulder.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
Vahagn said:
Depends how you define pure shooter. You're thinking of a catch and shoot guy or someone who makes free throws. Ray Allen is a much better shooter coming off screens, or catch and shoot...but put the ball in his hands and ask him to shoot a contested shot off the dribble, or a fadeaway over either shoulder.
Click to expand...


Duki said:
vag jordan was basically just a fair amount bigger and stronger than kobe

it basically explains every single thing you just described

its a pretty simple athletic advantage tbqh i dont know if theres a need to overanalyse it
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yup


Most of his advantages came in the fact that he could jump a foot higher, was faster, stronger, and quicker, and had bigger hands. I would argue Jordan had a better basketball IQ too...but Kobe's jumpshot has never been his weakness.

Ray Allen the pure shooter didn't make a single 3 in the final 5 games of the Finals in 2010 after making 8 in game 2 alone. Every shooter has hot and cold streaks...but to say Kobe's a streaky shooter is just wrong when he is one of the top 2 or 3 best mid range shooters % wise in the league every year despite taking the toughest shots


Puddles said:
However, he is a fairly mediocre shooter.
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How do you actually reach that conclusion when most his shots are contested / well defended / difficult and he's still a ultra top tier mid range shooter % wise ? He's not great for a wing superstar at finishing around the rim...and most many of his 3 point shots are also tough / difficult shots. You're mentally comparing his shots, with guys that constantly get open shots and that's an issue. Plus...dude's right hand / fingers / wrist have been tore up for years.
 
P

Puddles

Banned
Vahagn said:
Depends how you define pure shooter. You're thinking of a catch and shoot guy or someone who makes free throws. Ray Allen is a much better shooter coming off screens, or catch and shoot...but put the ball in his hands and ask him to shoot a contested shot off the dribble, or a fadeaway over either shoulder.
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Kobe is the best in the league at getting his shot off. Bar none. Doesn't matter if the way is blocked with everyone trying to stop him from getting to the hole; Kobe is going to get his shot off.

However, he is a fairly mediocre shooter (though at times he gets hot and can make anything).

There's a difference.

What I'm saying is that if Kobe were a better pure shooter, combined with his ability to get his shot off, he'd shoot 50% from the field every season, no problem.

CommonSense said:
Yeah? When's the last time tmac was top 20 in assists, bounds, steals, and scoring?
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System rebounds, low-value ballhog assists, playing the passing lanes.
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
CommonSense said:
Yeah? When's the last time tmac was top 20 in assists, bounds, steals, and scoring?


C'mon man this shit is crazy talk.
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That makes you a better player how?

Go ahead and name Rondo or westbrook MVP while you're at it. Stat lines don't define players.
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
Vahagn said:
What are you smoking? Kobe's one of the best pure shooters in the league. His mid range shooting numbers are always among the best in the league despite the fact that most his shots are fadeaways or heavily contested.


The difference between 45% and 50% shooting for someone who takes 20 shots a game (kobe's average) is the difference in making one more shot each game.


9/20 compared to 10/20. Kobe's made 3,000 + more threes in his career than michael jordan and taken roughly 10,000 more threes in his career. THAT'S the entire difference. That plus the fact that Jordan was a much better finisher around the rim, and most his shots and fadeaways came from closer in.


The difference between Kobe's TS% and Jordan's TS% is 1.5% Kobe's problem isn't his shot, Kobe's problem is that he's never been an amazing finisher around the rim. People like Jordan / Lebron are much better in the paint than kobe is and for some reason (probably because he's always played with people who clog up the paint in Shaq / Bynum / Pau...he shoots a lot more threes than Lebron does this year or Jordan did for his career) But that's normal back then, the Showtime Lakers used to shoot something like a 100 threes a season AS A TEAM
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3/20
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Vahagn said:
Depends how you define pure shooter. You're thinking of a catch and shoot guy or someone who makes free throws. Ray Allen is a much better shooter coming off screens, or catch and shoot...but put the ball in his hands and ask him to shoot a contested shot off the dribble, or a fadeaway over either shoulder.
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Scorers and pure shooters are pretty well defined to most basketball fans... curry vs monta, etc.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
How are the Bucks not going to make the playoffs?

Three of the last four player of the week are now playing in Milwaukee in Ilyasova, Monta and DREW GOODEN who won it this week.

Knicks don't have a chance.
 
C

CommonSense

Banned
DY_nasty said:
That makes you a better player how?

Go ahead and name Rondo or westbrook MVP while you're at it. Stat lines don't define players.
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Lebron vs TMac in his prime...Lebrons destroys him. TMac couldn't d up lebron..

That's my thought. Take off then tma colored glasses man.
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
CommonSense said:
Lebron vs TMac in his prime...Lebrons destroys him. TMac couldn't d up lebron..

That's my thought. Take off then tma colored glasses man.
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And Lbj couldnt guard him either. No one in that era could.

Lebron is in his prime right now and even though he's the best player in the league, he's far from the most skilled. Tmac got robbed of it and at a younger age he was still one of the best wing players the league ever saw...

But its okay, this was before your time.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Adrian Wojnarowski
JJ Hickson has completed a buyout with the Kings, league source tells Y!

It's amazing how fast his career derailed without Lebron.
 
S

Syphon Filter

Member
darkside31337 said:
How are the Bucks not going to make the playoffs?

Three of the last four player of the week are now playing in Milwaukee in Ilyasova, Monta and DREW GOODEN who won it this week.

Knicks don't have a chance.
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knicks will make the playoffs. they actually look like they want to play now.also boston might fall out.
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
Black Mamba said:
what was Ray Allen 2010 finals shooting numbers?

shit happens.

It would be interesting to see what Kobe could do with the looks Ray Allen gets. Still don't think he matches Allen, but I believe via synergy Kobe is one of the best spot up shooters when wide open, percentage wise.
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just trollin the vag, chill dude
 
C

CommonSense

Banned
DY_nasty said:
And Lbj couldnt guard him either. No one in that era could.

Lebron is in his prime right now and even though he's the best player in the league, he's far from the most skilled. Tmac got robbed of it and at a younger age he was still one of the best wing players the league ever saw...

But its okay, this was before your time.
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I'm 35. You're still crazy. Everybody overrates Tmac under age 32.
 
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