What does this even mean?
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2012 NBA Offseason |OT3| The Barclays Center is covered in rust
- Thread starter Rodeo Clown
- Start date
What does this even mean?
His impact on the game. He just does more for his team than someone like Durant
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
lol@ people who would take Durant over Howard(when healthy).
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
Thank goodness preseason is only like 3 weeks away.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
Did you even play that game? The cutscenes in particular are pretty embarrassing.
They had a thread a while ago on the gaming side asking "What games would you want newcomers to play to get into gaming?" well, to me, Bayo is the antitheses of that.
Games like Bayo and Lolipop Chainsaw on the surface make gaming look bad. Not saying they're bad games, because they're not. But they're definitely the weird kids you hide in the attic when company comes over. No doubt.
Yeah it's going to be great watching people over analyze losses and brag about wins *cough* clipper fans *cough*in the pre-season this year.
yeah.. yeah it's gonna be great...
Future PhaZe
Member
Hard to imagine anyone ever taking Paul over Dwight. Dwights already made a finals as a #1 option. CP3 never will.
Maybe that had something to do with him, oh I don't know, playing on the Hornets?
I really don't see anything that funny. Howard is a great defensive player but you can make up without him with good team D(which is probably better anyway) Look at OKC and MIA, no defender of Howard's caliber yet still two of the top defensive teams.
Kevin Durant is the most lethal scorer in the game and is improving in other aspects.
I'm betting the MVP goes to him this year...
OKC is not a top defensive team and MIA is a top defensive team thanks to LeBron. Durant is an elite scorer but he's an average distributor and defender and it's much easier to make up for his scoring than it is for a team to make up Dwights defensive and offensive impact
Future PhaZe
Member
Traditionally teams with their best player being a PG chipping are super rare, meanwhile there are a lot of teams with good c's, a decent number 2 option and great roleplayers that have chipped. When you get the max as a PG and your role is to fascilitate, then you're already a step behind because of how much of the salary cap you yourself are taking up. It's just hard to surround a maxed out PG with the necessary talent.
Point blank if you had generic roleplayers around Durant he may not even make the playoffs. Dwight with generic roleplayers will definitely make the playoffs. He just makes a bigger impact. Using OKC and MIA as examples of why you don't need a Howard is pretty ridiculous given one has one of the greatest series of drafts of all time and the other is a top 5 all time free agency year in terms of talent acquisition, and it's unknown if the Thunder will be able to retain Harden at this point.
I mean there are only 2 players in the league that can by themselves guarantee a 40 win season and that's Bron and Dwight.
And it's not even a question that Dwight will chip this year if the Lakers remain healthy with only Miami putting up a fight.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
You talk like Dwight can only play defense.. Howard can change the make-up of the game on both ends of the floor, and do it with utter dominance. Durant.. not so much.
What use is Durant when he's having a bad scoring night? Not much use at all. Howard though? He can have a bad night on one end and still be a major factor on the other. That makes him the superior player in my eyes.
Sure, but you said "Hard to imagine anyone ever taking Paul over Dwight. Dwights already made a finals as a #1 option. CP3 never will.", which implies that you would take Dwight over Paul because of his playoff performance.
I would take Dwight over Paul any day too but really, they are both fully capable of being the best player on a Finals team
Future PhaZe
Member
I mean I feel as if Paul is worse in every aspect: health, ability to surround said player with chippable talent, and just raw impact on games. I think he's Durant tier, which is a step below Dwight and Bron tier. I honestly don't know if Paul can be the best player on a finals team. He'd need a #2 option that's Wade, Durant or Kobe good to make it, in which case people could argue said #2 player is actually on par with Pauls abilities.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Let's say the Lakers win it all this year. Isn't Kobe, Pau, and Nash being on that team the same scenario for Dwight? The league is so top Heavy now it really is hard to judge the top tier talent on their individual impacts anymore.
I don't remember Howard being utterly dominating on offense, ever
Diprosalic
Banned
I'd do it...
Syphon Filter
Member
KD is clearly number two in the leage.
What are you smoking?
Lebron does not make Miami the defensive team it is. He has had the pleasure of playing in a great defensive systems, even he acknowledged he needed to work on his D the summer he moved. Despite playing on one of the consistent top defensive teams in the league. Heck I can't remember a time between 08-10 that Cleveland had more than two good-great defenders.
Great Team D > what one guy can do everytime
What is this crap? Dwight plus crap makes the playoffs in the East maybe. Put Durant on the team and they still make the playoffs.
OKC's best defender is either Ibaka or Perkins. Think about that for a second. The only great defender on MIA is LBJ. OKC has offensive talent for days but come on.
Durant is probably the best scorer this side of 06 Kobe. Unless his team is Bobcat bad, I don't see how in the hell he doesn't make the playoffs at this point in his career.
LOL, give D12 the ball for the last shot and see what happens.
Also this thing you are trying to imply about Durant being a bad defender is either you being ignorant or just living in the past. Durant made huge strides this season in defense.
He allowed only .74 PPP as the primary defender on 31.1%, alot better than LBJ at .85 on 39%(albeit not pace adjusted). And he's improving. As I said you can switch LBJ, KD, and D12 around on the top 3 and you wouldn't be far off.
Diprosalic
Banned
Even then, he's far off from a Howard.
Diprosalic
Banned
yeah yeah i get the point i just need to fill my "mentioning sef" quota.
They had the 11th best DRTG overall and 12th best in the playoffs http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2012.html
LeBron is by far their best defender and guards any position they need. Obviously their system is great and they're really good at help defense, but they wouldn't be elite if you replaced Lebron with an average forward
And yeah, team d is more important than one guy, but this just shows how amazing Dwight is when he can take a team of poor to average defenders and make them one of the best
I'd take Durant over Howard, especially now since he's coming off back surgery.
Real fun game, but really short.
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
Much better than what's going on in here right now.
Dwight plus crap made the Finals.
Yeah, no. That Magic team was one of the deepest in the league, if the not the deepest.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
Look people, Dwight Howard took his team to the finals after beating the team with the best record in the league, whilst having Rafer Alston as his starting guard. Marinade on that shit...
I'm takin' Dwight.
I'm takin' Dwight.
And the deepest team in the league. Seriously.
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/orl/year/2009/orlando-magic
Deep? Their all-star PG got replaced with Rafer Alston. Hedo's best year of all time and a 120 million dollar Rashard Lewis isn't anything to brag about.
Its still a fuckton of a lot less than what Durant went 1-4 with.
Yes, deep. All 5 starters averaged 10+pts. 3 15+pts. With the best bench.
Thats a whole hell of a lot better the 95% of the league that year. Boston was KG less, OKC/CHI was still going thru the motions, SA was acting their age. Him taking the deepest team in the league to the finals(in one of the weakest EC's ever) to get beat 4-1 is certainly nothing to brag about. I don't see your point...
Before the injury you could argue that Howard was the most valuable player in the league. Though at the same time you have to keep in mind that he's playing in a weak center era where the guys that has been close to him in regards rankings throughout the decade are:
1) A guy that was already well into his NBA career when Howard joined the league (Duncan).
2) A 4 man that played the 5 because the position is weak (Amare).
The guy that had a chance of being a real dominant force couldn't stay on the court so Dwight lucked out (Oden). Dwight is extremely valuable due to the position he plays and the gap between him and anyone else that plays his position, before the back injury anyways. Though at the same time he looks good because his peers aren't as good as others were in the past.
1) A guy that was already well into his NBA career when Howard joined the league (Duncan).
2) A 4 man that played the 5 because the position is weak (Amare).
The guy that had a chance of being a real dominant force couldn't stay on the court so Dwight lucked out (Oden). Dwight is extremely valuable due to the position he plays and the gap between him and anyone else that plays his position, before the back injury anyways. Though at the same time he looks good because his peers aren't as good as others were in the past.
Your point is you're comparing Dwight and KD's impact. KD has one of the most explosive players in the league in Westbrook and arguably the best SG in the league in James Harden. The guy is playing with two other Olympians. A team with 3 all-stars is always deeper than a team with one.
Your argument is akin to when Knicks-age says they're putting out a "deep" team.
Lot's of things can be deep. Shit, for example.
WTF are you taking about? Your logic sucks.
ORL was the deepest team in 09. Compared to the teams they went up against in 09. Him getting that deep team to the finals in 09, isn't anything to brag about.
It doesn't matter what KD has now and I really don't see what the hell you are imply. OKC were still virgins in 09.
Yeah. 09. Dwight went 1-4 in the finals with a team that had collectively less talent than Durant's team this year.
Its your comparison, not mine.
In terms on skinniness? No one can beat Tayshaun Prince.
I actually think it's going to Chris paul
lol Nice.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Bron Dwight KD in that order. Wade is probably low end top 10 this year.
Uh what?
You the one who came in here talking like Dwight going to the Finals in 09 is some complement or some achievement. Only thing I said that it aint shit. Which it aint. Put this years KD on that team and they still go to the Finals...
Future PhaZe
Member
Difference being that Dwight has already gotten to the finals with much less while Paul hasn't. Dude got to the finals with Rafer Alston, Lee, Turk and Shard. Cmon now.
1. We've never even seen Durant operate on a team without ... I don't know, the best scoring point guard on the planet? Or how about a top 3 SG in Harden? He's going to win a lot of games, but I don't know that he does enough of anything else well enough besides scoring to ever make a finals.
2. Lets at least let the guy average over 31 ppg once before we even put his name in the same sentence as 06 Kobe. Goddam. Ever heard of guys like Iverson, Kareem and MJ? To be fair to Durant he's got some great scorers taking away his volume as I mentioned above but you have to at least average 31 ppg once in your career to even be in the discussion as a GOAT scorer. Fuck his scoring titles. Kobe gave last years away and Wade and Lebron handicapped themselves due to playing together.
1. LOL.
2. He's on a contending team with multiple scoring options. He won't score 31PPG simply because they have too much firepower but you putting it out there like it is so beyond him is LOL. He is still probably the most effortless scorer since yes, Kobe. Put him on a D-league level squad, take away all his fucks and see what would happen. And he's only 23, still getting better.
Future PhaZe
Member
Lol. Kd at sf, shard at pf, turk at sg with rafer and Gortat before he was good would have gotten worked by Brons Cavs. Probably doesnt beat the Kg'less Celtics.
Yeah, no. And Im a cavs fan. 3 of the 5 best players would be on the Magic. Mo would still choke, Delonte is still way to small and would still get abused, Z is still too slow, Wally-Smith-Wallace are still one step out of the retirement home, etc..
Just, no...
Ninja Scooter
Member
Dwight with Westbrick, Harden and Ibaka would be way better than KD with those guys.
Dwight is better.
Dwight is better.
They wouldn't and he aint. Cool story though.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Convincing argument. "nah uh!".
Swapping out Durant for Howard could potentially get OKC a ring. Dwight is the exact type of player the heat offense would struggle against in a 7 game series and they have NOBODY to guard him.