In no particular order,
Rose
Bradley
Rondo
Kidd
Andre Miller
Just off the top of my head are better defenders. Rubio is a good team defender but in isolation he is mediocre.
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2012 NBA Offseason |OT3| The Barclays Center is covered in rust
- Thread starter Rodeo Clown
- Start date
In no particular order,
Rose
Bradley
Rondo
Kidd
Andre Miller
Just off the top of my head are better defenders. Rubio is a good team defender but in isolation he is mediocre.
I'm a rose fan, but he's not a great defender.
Good, but not great.
Dre/Kidd aren't as good as they used to be either.
Avery Bradley? isn't he a SG? Thats the kid from the Celtics?
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Every PG in the NBA is mediocre (at best) defensively in isolation because of the rules so team defense matters a lot more and Rubio is a better iso defender than Rondo, Kidd, and Miller because Rondo is way too small and Kidd and Miller are way too slow.
Lowry and Bledsoe are the only PGs I'd consider close to as good as Rubio defensively (and calling Bledsoe a PG is a stretch) because Lowry and Bledsoe can protect the rim despite Bledsoe's hyperactiveness and Lowry's tinyness.
Lowry and Bledsoe are the only PGs I'd consider close to as good as Rubio defensively (and calling Bledsoe a PG is a stretch) because Lowry and Bledsoe can protect the rim despite Bledsoe's hyperactiveness and Lowry's tinyness.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Kidd was a great great great defender... maybe the 4th or 5th best defender at the position but those days are long gone...
Miller old too
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Dominican Power
Member
New host of First Take
New host of First Take
She the one with the short hair?
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Rose has Joakim Noah, Omer Asik, and Taj Gibson protecting the rim and never has to guard top perimeter players on the opposing team. Rose being replaced by CJ Watson also had no affect on the Bulls' defense. Rondo has KG protecting the rim. Rubio has Love and Pekovic protecting the rim.
No, this isn't true at all. There are a couple NBA PG'a who are a the top of the league in individual defense.
These are isolation stats, these players are the primary defenders. If they go into help, it doesn't get counted.
so mesmorizing
Dominican Power
Member
No. Her name is Cari Champion.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Literally every single example video in the Rose isolation defense stats on Synergy involves Deng or Noah coming over to help. If Rondo is beaten off the dribble, KG comes over to help, and the opposing PG takes a weird shot to avoid getting blocked by KG, that will be counted as Rondo in isolation defense.
Yeah, this is a lie. A blatant one at that lol.
Too bad all you will see is a close up of SAS drinking coffee and picking his nose with Skip turning redder than a tomato.
Rim protectors aren't just active in PnR play. They're active the whole time. Just because the initial play starts in isolation doesn't mean they aren't going to face help defenders after the fact.
/me nod
If the player goes into help, it doesn't get counted towards iso defense. I don't know how many times I can explain this.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
In the first video, Deng moves over to cut off Roddy B from getting a layup and forces him to take a jumper (this is after the entire Bulls team was swarming him before the final try by Roddy).
In the second video, Dominique Jones goes to the basket, Noah comes over to block the shot, but is too late rotating.
In the third video, Brandon Knight goes insane and throws a pass wildly out of bounds due to being unable to pass the ball into the post due to Noah's defense.
It doesn't matter how many times you explain it, you're still wrong.
IWMTB is literally spelling it out for you, go look.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Yeah but how many times are the bulls in iso situations that number doesn't explain that
LOL, are you using the trial? Theres 62 plays pal.
Red Blaster
Member
Is UUU shadowdork's alt
he's sounding just like him
he's sounding just like him
If by spelling it out you mean using the limited ass trial to prove a point then yeah he is. PS: Im not using last year for Rose because he was hurt.
It does actually...
Edit: Also, it doesn't matter how many times the bulls are isolated. Its Rose's isolations we are talking...
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Yes.
And from just three plays it is blatantly obvious that plays in which Rose gets defensively help are counted as isolation defensive possessions if his man has the ball and doesn't get a pick.
And why are you even using Rondo and Rose as examples? Their coaches have said repeatedly that they don't believe in individual defense but five guys on a string who are always helping each other. A defensive possession where Rose (or anyone on the team) doesn't receive a lot of help would be considered a failed defensive possession by Thibs so how can you judge his isolation defense in a scheme where everyone is always helping?
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Did you respond to your evidence being falsified by trying to use your (so far unsupported point) as evidence? Also, Synergy ranks Al Jefferson and Andrea Bargnani as top defenders in the NBA and Memo Okur frequently had amazing Synergy stats. Basketball is a team sport. Rubio has better much better discipline than Rondo and Rose on defense, he understands angles better, he understands when to double and when to help better. Possibly Rose and Rondo are better individual defenders, but I haven't seen any real evidence with my eyes or with stats that that's the case and team defense involves players on every possession whereas individual defense is usually one of every five possessions.
Rose getting injured did not hurt the Bulls defensively at all. Rondo getting injured did not affect the Celtics defensively at all (though that does have a good bit to do with Bradley playing more). Rubio joining the Wolves caused them to go from horrible defensively to average. Rubio getting injured caused the Wolves to go from average defensively to horrible.
Rose getting injured did not hurt the Bulls defensively at all. Rondo getting injured did not affect the Celtics defensively at all (though that does have a good bit to do with Bradley playing more). Rubio joining the Wolves caused them to go from horrible defensively to average. Rubio getting injured caused the Wolves to go from average defensively to horrible.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Because the bulls play a trapping helping D?
How many plays did rose d up in iso last year?
Stats can be real deceiving
I am not saying rose isn't a good defender to be clear!
Barg is one the worst defenders in the league according to Synergy. Rondo and Rose have good backups so no there defense doesn't suffer as much. Your point is still poor though. I doubt any body Rubio would have guarded or switched on were the ones lighting the wolves up. You play different teams as the season goes on..
62, which is a little bit below average
ryutaro's mama
Member
Time Warner Lakers channel make a deal with DirecTV yet?
lol good fucking luck. The Blazers have been trying to get that working with Comcast since they signed their 10-year deal 5 years ago. DirecTV still doesn't carry Blazers games, and the streaming solution was such a mess.
They never will.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Aren't you a media guy? Fix It!
This isn't about media -- this is all about money, oligarchs, and monopolies.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
So a little over 2 plays a game?
Now compared to Rubio and whoever?
D especially is never explained well in stats it's always better to asset from gameplay
Isolation? 73. A guy like rondo gets 100+
I think there are good ways of measuring Defense with stats. Its not complete without an eye test but still.
I don't agree with comparing how teams with good backups perform with teams without good backups do. I mean, most teams were pretty bad offensively at the beginning off the year. I doubt the wolves wouldn't have regressed defensively in the West if Rubio was there anyway. It was inevitable. PG defense is probably 5 on the rank of importance.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I agree with you about comparing backups... but I think defensive PGs are one of the most important cogs after a great defensive big man..
Keeping hating on Svelton's shine.
Since the trade I don't think Deron has been playing at the level he was at during his Jazz days. Even his Olympics run was uninspiring. Maybe finally having a decent team around him and fighting for a playoff spot will change that.
Thats a odd ass number put thats pretty much all the elites.
That's because I don't think the others are elites yet. There are a few upcoming ones like Curry/Rubio/Kyrie but they are probably a season or two away.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Hmm...
Conley equal to Westbrook? Can't cosign that..
CP3
Rose
Williams
Nash
Rondo ( Can't lie Triple L made a good case for him... But still can't shoot)
Westbrook
Parker
Kyrie
Rubio
Curry
Conley
theignoramus
Member
dem legs.New host of First Take
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
RealGM's gotten through the voting for the top 20 peaks in NBA history:
1. Michael Jordan '91, age 27
2. Shaquille O'Neal '00, age 27
3. Bill Russell '65, age 30
4. Wilt Chamberlain '67, age 30
5. Hakeem Olajuwon '94, age 31
6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '77, age 29
7. Larry Bird '86, age 29
8. Magic Johnson '87, age 27
9. Tim Duncan '03, age 26
10. LeBron James '09, age 24
11. Kevin Garnett '04, age 27
12. Bill Walton '77, age 24
13. Julius Erving '76, age 25
14. Oscar Robertson '63, age 24
15. Kobe Bryant '08, age 29
16. David Robinson '95, age 29
17. Dwyane Wade '09, age 27
18. Dirk Nowitzki '11, age 32
19. Patrick Ewing '90, age 27
20. Steve Nash '05, age 31
West, T-Mac, Moses, CP3, Dwight, and Malone should be the next guys on the list.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1197732
It's a pretty interesting read. Doctor MJ, ElGee, and the others bring a lot of interesting perspective.
1. Michael Jordan '91, age 27
2. Shaquille O'Neal '00, age 27
3. Bill Russell '65, age 30
4. Wilt Chamberlain '67, age 30
5. Hakeem Olajuwon '94, age 31
6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar '77, age 29
7. Larry Bird '86, age 29
8. Magic Johnson '87, age 27
9. Tim Duncan '03, age 26
10. LeBron James '09, age 24
11. Kevin Garnett '04, age 27
12. Bill Walton '77, age 24
13. Julius Erving '76, age 25
14. Oscar Robertson '63, age 24
15. Kobe Bryant '08, age 29
16. David Robinson '95, age 29
17. Dwyane Wade '09, age 27
18. Dirk Nowitzki '11, age 32
19. Patrick Ewing '90, age 27
20. Steve Nash '05, age 31
West, T-Mac, Moses, CP3, Dwight, and Malone should be the next guys on the list.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1197732
It's a pretty interesting read. Doctor MJ, ElGee, and the others bring a lot of interesting perspective.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Anybody got a picture of Skip's girlfriend? They talk about her a lot on the show.