ryutaro's mama
Member
Ahahahahaha...
Yao Ming, Steve Franchise and Cuttino Mobley = trash
Never change, thekad.
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2012 NBA Playoffs |OT3| If he dies, he dies *wink*
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Ahahahahaha...
Yao Ming, Steve Franchise and Cuttino Mobley = trash
Never change, thekad.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
You're literally whining about a small percentage difference in 1 of 3 different shooting percentage stats? And no, Kobe doesn't hang his hat on that, he hangs his hat on 5 chips...but I guess hanging your hat on "I dragged trash to the playoffs" is good too when you don't have any playoff success to be prideful of.
Jordan 6 Chips - Drexler 3 Finals Appearances
Kobe 5 Chips - T-Mac No second round appearances
The argument is a valid one...T-Mac was Drexler to Kobe's MJ...and that's giving T-Mac a lot more credit than he rightfully deserves
ryutaro's mama
Member
Even if I agree with this, Yao Ming was trash now?
What is this Bizarro World?
and he continues to ignore Yao Ming.
Such a horrible troll.
You lose in literally every argument. Now your definition of greatness is "how much trash you dragged to the playoffs"?
Keep changing the goalposts and still keep losing
2006-2007 Lakers Trash was the trashiest trash ever.
Besides, TMAC got the same playoff success when he dragged trash, as when Yao Ming dragged his regular season injured ass...what's your point?
1) I was only discussing the threepeat era (early 2000s). T-Mac was decimated by injuries; Kobe wasn't. There's no present comparison.
2) Horry has more chips, therefore Horry > Kobe? Didn't think so. Kobe had a better team and the most dominant player in basketball. T-Mac had Mike Miller.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Yeah and he had JVG!
THAT'S WHY THEY COULDN'T GET TO THE SECOND ROUND!
...even though old ass Kobe made it to the second round in his 16th year, with a roster of dysfunction and Mike FUCKING Brown coaching.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
what about bald!!!! BALD!!!! Kareem?
Oh, stupid stupid troll
There is literally not a single argument you've brought up that doesn't get shred instantly. Role Players =/= Superstars. You know this. If you want championships not to be brought up in comparing Kobe with T Mac, and want to focus the "who's better" argument on TS%...why don't you consistently stay that way the whole way through? And include role players to boot?
Tyson Chandler better than MJ confirmed
ryutaro's mama
Member
Yao got further in the playoffs without T Mac.
get that shit outta here
Only thing that would piss me off even more is if they tried to make a move for Diva Howard.
Odom is a bum on any team that's not the Lakers. I don't buy his shit and hopefully the Knicks FO isn't dumb enough to buy into it. Don't give this guy money to sit at home with Khloe and cry all day about how the Lakers traded him..
So metta world peace is greater than T-mac?
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Well I do know Ron Artest is better than Metta World Peace
ryutaro's mama
Member
Lemme check Basketball-Reference.com
So basically Kobe fans can only fall back on the fact that Kobe was carried to championships while T-Mac went to war with terrible players while playing better than Kobe and actually improving his play in the postseason.
Shaq & T-Mac = 3+ championships. And he wouldn't have run Shaq and Phil out of town.
Shaq & T-Mac = 3+ championships. And he wouldn't have run Shaq and Phil out of town.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Once the T Mac Stan takes his hands off his ears, maybe he'll address the fact that Yao Ming was on the team when "better than Kobe" T-Mac was stranded on the first round bracket.
For years.
No fucking way Kobe is stranded on the first round if he had Phil, Yao and the rest of that trash Laker roster in 2006.
Yao over Kwamers?
Fuck, you can even make JVG the head coach.
Then I mention Kobe winning rings without Shaq
Then I say you're not giving Kobe credit for the Shaq 3 peat, but interjecting to make sure you give Pau credit for the Kobe ones? How's that consistent, especially when Kobe was better in 2000-2002 than Pau ever was?
I know it's hard to keep track of your arguments sometimes...
Oh and, thanks for the warning, won't have political or religious allusions again.
Why of course not, in 2000 Alex English was better than Kobe! amirite?
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
You mentioned Kobe won without Wilt, Kareem, or Shaq as if that doesn't make them 3 some of the greatest big men to ever play...
Kobe didn't win until Pau got there and that is a fact no matter how much better Kobe was than Pau when he played with Shaq.. They wouldn't have won without Pau.. Just like Shaq wouldn't have won in Mia without Wade.. but I stand that Shaq would have chipped in his prime without Kobe.. Not that we will ever know, but he was that unstoppable..
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
case closed
ryutaro's mama
Member
You seriously have no answer for Yao Ming being on the First Round Virgin's team so you keep trying to move the goalposts for the lulz.
Fact: T Mac had one of the best centers in the game at the time (easily) and couldn't get out the first round but you try to point to T Mac being superior to Kobe.
Kobe got out the first round in 2004 with a fat out of shape, "fuck you, pay me, Dr. Buss" Shaq, a worn down GP and Kaaahl Malones that was pretty gimpy after the second round.
Admit you have nothing here and move the fuck on.
no, I mentioned it as if They're not the only reason Lakers have chips
I have no idea why you took it as a shot against the Big men, that's your call. As we've established, you have a personal preference for Bigs, and that's fine, but as I've already pointed, the Laker perimeter icons of West/Magic/Kobe have more accomplishments in a Laker Jersey than the Big Man icons do. You choose to take all the credit away from the perimeter icons by claiming the Bigs are the "only" reason LA won chips
Shaq wouldn't have chipped in his prime without Kobe unless he had another All NBA Defensive First Teamer that can get him First option numbers and take over close games like Kobe did in playoff games...there weren't that many going around. But it's a hypothetical and one we'll never be able to prove anyway...but I still feel like you're vastly diminishing the things Kobe did for LA, especially 2001 and 2002
ryutaro's mama
Member
He had fucking YAO MING!
For years, he was considered the second best center in the league behind Shaq.
You're telling me (since he was better in the playoffs than Kobe) he couldn't get out the first round (favored or not) ONCE with a center like that?
ONCE?!?!
Kobe 2000 - 21 PPG, 5.9 RPG 4.6 APG 47% FG 32% 3PFG All NBA First Team Defense & All NBA Second Team
Pau 2009 - 19 PPG, 9.6 RPG 3.5 APG 57% FG All NBA Third Team
Pau 2010 -18.3 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 3.4 APG 54% FG All NBA Third Team
Pau was a better rebounder and more efficient scorer; Kobe was a more prolific scorer, and better playmaker and defender.
So it's debate-able, but no where near definitely
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
They actually don't.. really only Magic can say he chipped without a big in the finals.. did it in style as well..
I don't decide to take away ALL the credit.. but having a great big with a wing = championship. Always has. You are the one with a bias.. not me. I have no team. I have no rivals. Now I am just a fan of the sport and the history. History tells us that bigs are more important than wings.. the closest team to not have a true dominate big man were the Larry Brown Pistons but I would argue that Wallace decided to actually play big that year and their defense was insane..
I think it is you who are undervaluing the effect a big has for Kobe
And yeah, having the greatest big men of all time are the only reasons the Lakers chipped..
ryutaro's mama
Member
The 3 Peat Era...ok.
Without Yao...
2000 - Swept by the Knicks 3-0 (had VC in his prime)
2001 - Lazy Swept by the Bucks 3-1
2002 - Lazy Swept by the Hornets 3-1
He went 2-9 in the playoffs in the 3 Peat Era!
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
T-Mac now might have chipped with Laker Shaq
ryutaro's mama
Member
Kobe was much older in 2006, blew a 3-1 lead, had a team worse than those T Mac '3 Peat Era' teams, didn't have Shaq and still had more wins in that round than T Mac had in 3 years when he was "better than Kobe."
Let that simmer.
*facepalm*
In a Lakers Jersey, the three wings have more Finals MVP's and more Chips than the 3 Bigs you listed. They've played more years with LA, hold more records, more All Star Appearances while in LA, More Awards while in LA...MORE ACCOMPLISHMENTS WHILE IN LA THAN THE BIGS
That's just not debate-able man. It's not a matter of opinion. Kareem's LA Career isn't as accomplished as Magics, Wilt's LA Career isn't as accomplished as West's, Shaq's LA Career isn't as accomplished as Kobe's.
Wrong - Great Bigs don't win with just any wing. You need a great Wing. Kareem needed the Big O and Magic, Russell needed Havlicek and Cousy, Wilt and Jerry, Shaq and Kobe / Wade, McHale had Bird etc.
The only Big to win without a great wing was Hakeem, but Hakeem wasn't on the Lakers, so wtf does that have to do with Lakers history?
Oh and Mikan, but that was pre-shot clock era, and that wasn't basketball, it was hold the ball
You act like great Bigs can win with just any wing, and that's where you're wrong. That's why I gave you the list of all the All Star's Shaq's played with his whole career. He's never played a single season without at least 1 or 2 perimeter all stars.
Kareem is higher on the all time great list than Magic
Wilt is higher on the all time great list than West
But Magic and West's Laker careers are better than Kareem's and Wilt's...is that so hard to understand?
Bigs shoot at a higher % than perimeter players! News at 11, and no, he didn't. He shot 46.8% - or rounded up 47%...wtf are you reading?
Uhh he shot 44.2% .. compared to 58% for Pau, a pretty staggering difference and calls for a "definitely".
Playoff numbers? The stuff everyone has been talking about for like 100 posts. Also why i mentioned the Title team part.
so raise Pau's numbers so more and drop Kobe's some more.
Lol You do know Kobe got injured in the playoffs that year and only played 9 minutes one game and then played with a tweaked ankle in games 4-6 right? That skews the shit out of things.
44.2% is not a great FG%, but you can't seriously be comparing a PF/C's FG% to a SG's. C'mon son!
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Look at Kareem's numbers as a Laker and tell me how much more accomplished Magic was than him.. Magic is my favorite player of all time, but the by the numbers it is hard to say he had more impact than the Captain.. Plus Kareem was all NBA almost every year of his career as a buck and a Laker..
Wilt chipped before he was teamed with West...
Most of those didn't have the chance be franchise darlings, big men break down faster than wings..
Only number Kareem excelled at in LA over Magic was # of hair's lost...he was Bald
All kidding aside, Kareem is the only guy that you can make an argument for, because he played in LA for like 14 years or whatever (too lazy to check), that can be compared to the perimeter trio of LA. But most of Kareem's time in LA during the Golden 80's, he was past his prime, and Magic was the heart and soul of the showtime Lakers.
Plus, West and Magic have been involved with LA at it's highest levels for decades now...there's just a reason why Laker fans consider West/Magic/Kobe to be top-tier in our franchise's pantheon. Lots of contributing factors, but it's just that way. Kareem was the man! (So was Shaq and Wilt) but there's just something West/Magic/Kobe bring to the table. Face of the franchise for a decade, consistent excellence, lifelong Lakers, multiple championships, etc.
Edit: And when you state that 3 people who weren't even drafted with our team and only played for our team for part of their careers were the only reason we have 16 franchise titles (mathematically incorrect) when you've got 3 of the top 5 guards of all time in the Kobe/Magic/West pantheon...that's tough to swallow and is going to warrant a response.
Lol did you already forget back when Kobe was demanding a trade and the fans all booed him and wanted hiim shipped out? Until Pau came... I'd consider him an all time great on the same level as or below Kareem. He's only at the top right now because he's the most recent and is still playing, wait 20 years and we'll see where he stacks up.
Rockets got really unfavorable match-ups pretty much every time they went to the playoffs in the Yao era. Lakers in 2004 when they went to the finals, Mavericks in 2005 when they went 7 games despite the Mavs being essentially the same team that went to the finals next year (and were just much better overall), 2006 I think we had a bunch of injuries and didn't make the playoffs, 2007, 2008 got the cheap-ass dirty Jazz, 2009 finally got a decent matchup with the Trailblazers (sans T-mac lol) and moved on to the second round where they lost to the eventual champion Lakers, but not before taking them to 7 games after Yao was injured in game 2.
The Rockets were completely out-gunned in every single series they lost. People forget how poorly constructed the Rocket teams of the pre-Daryl Morey era were. Mochie Norris? Are you fucking kidding me? When we finally got a decent GM and a decent supporting cast in 2009 we lost Yao and T-Mac. It just wasn't meant to be.
This is Kangu btw. Couldn't get anyone in support to reply to my requests to reinstate my old account. Sloan is gone, Jazz are no longer cheap. Now they just suck.
In fairness, the Jazz were just a terrible match up for those Rockets teams. Okur had too much range for Yao to guard him and Boozer was too quick. On the offensive end the Jazz doubled and fronted Yao everytime and T-Mac for some reason was unable to eviscerate Fisher... I don't think I'll ever understand that. D-Will on the other hand had no problems absolutely running a train on Rafer Alston... WTF Rafer Alston from the And1 league, seriously we must have had the worst GM in the NBA.
In Morey we trust, Jazz will remain title-less for the foreseeable and unforeseeable future
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