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2012 NBA Playoffs |OT3| If he dies, he dies *wink*
- Thread starter reilo
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Easily my biggest problem with coach Brown
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Might just happen to you one day.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
It's interesting to think about how good the 2000s Lakers would have been with KG and without Shaq...
Skimming through the 2010 offseason thread, I forgot Linsanity was infecting bestgaf even back then:
The game DY will never let anyone forget.
The game DY will never let anyone forget.
I think we should Keep Gasol and Trade Bynum. Bynum is younger, and is an expiring so it's better to trade him this year than to trade him next year after he's locked into a longer contract.
Meanwhile Gasol will be an expiring contract next year and will have more value than being 2 years 38 million left...especially if Bynum is traded and Gasol gets more post touches and boosts his trade value
resign Odom, and trade Bynum for athletic, big, wing guys to shore up our second unit + Josh Smith
obijkenobi
Member
If Shaq doesn't go to the Lakers, how many of those early 2000 titles do the Spurs get. Kobe was good, but even if you split up his contract to get some good pieces, there's no way those good pieces would replicate Shaq.
Maddocks
Member
hate to bring up an old topic from earlier, but I believe a lot of laker fans didnt like shaq when he left because of all the issues he had with the lakers.
him yelling at owner jerry buss saying,"pay me mother fucker" and once he was traded away to miami he would say how los angeles is a fake city filled with fake fans and fake people. so a lot of it comes from his attitude towards the city. just 2 years ago if you asked a laker fan should his jersey be retired,a good number of them would have said no.
over the course of the 2 years hes eased up on hating the city and team. he goes out of his way now of days to praise the organization and for good reason, because they are retiring his number next season.
him yelling at owner jerry buss saying,"pay me mother fucker" and once he was traded away to miami he would say how los angeles is a fake city filled with fake fans and fake people. so a lot of it comes from his attitude towards the city. just 2 years ago if you asked a laker fan should his jersey be retired,a good number of them would have said no.
over the course of the 2 years hes eased up on hating the city and team. he goes out of his way now of days to praise the organization and for good reason, because they are retiring his number next season.
ryutaro's mama
Member
The only trade I was pissed we didn't get besides the obvious other one.
And also, the thread gets weird as fuck once the Lakers are eliminated.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Most Celtic fans view the OG big 3 as their greatest team.. hard to argue when Bird had a over 70% win percent as a player..
Also most Celtic fans view DJ as part of the family despite only playing a few years as a Celtic.. so yeah they seem to be better fans..
Sigh
"Part of the family"? What does that even mean. We have 3 guys who spearheaded a decade of greatness and spent their careers here. West/Kobe/Magic...After those 3 Shaq/Kareem/Wilt are right there.
Most Celtic Fans can find a lot more than just 3 people ahead of DJ in Celtic Lore. DJ is like what Fisher or Byron Scott or Robert Horry is to LA. it's not even the same conversation dude
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Magic most likely will be Mr. Laker forever and that can't be helped.. Every team needs a hero, a face.. And while older people might say West there is no doubt that Magic had that charm that makes him Mr. Laker.. But after that how you can say Kareem isn't on the same tier as Kobe is beyond me..
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Sure they can, because he was a key role player on those teams... but not a fat ass Snaq or bald.. There is a huge difference how DJ is treated compared to how Shaq or even Horry is treated by fans.. and hearing the stuff said about Kareem makes me ill almost..
Most Celtics fans would not think this. Ever. EVER. Are you fucking kidding me? Ever.
If you said Bill Walton, then yeah.
So why even bring DJ up when we're talking about Shaq and Kareem? DJ is respected there like Horry and Fisher are respected here.
As for Kareem...if you feel that way so passionately...you should call up Magic and ask him why he thinks Kobe is arguably the best laker of all time but won't say the same about his own teammate?
The Lakers pantheon is just what it is, Magic/Kobe/West are the 3 torch bearers just as most Celtics would tell you Russell/Bird/Havlicek are their 3 torch bearers. It is what it is man, I don't know what to tell you
What? Most Celtic Fans think of DJ as an all time top 10 great? Really? Because that's what Shaq and Kareem are...so obviously the comparison isn't warranted...Also, DJ wasn't even part of your big 3...c'mon man. Stop trolling just to troll
No...you compared DJ to Robert Horry and Derek Fisher.
You are just lost. How is that trolling and why can't there be more than three great players?
Old and busted Shaq after his first two years in Miami. He even missed half a season in Miami.
Shaq was the most dominant player in the league for that 4-5 year stretch. I understand being more attached to Kobe, but there's no reason to belittle Shaq here.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
You must remember a different version about how Fisher is loved and Horry is loved than I do.. I don't live in LA so it is based off of Internet douchebaggery but yeah..
As for Magic, do you think the PR machine that is Magic Johnson would throw Kobe under the bus while he is playing for the Lakers? GTFO with ask Magic Johnson.. Shit I would bet if you asked him in his Dodgers boxseats he would say "I am the greatest Laker of all time" or Kareem..
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
There is a reason why there are so many numbers retired in Boston.. Because the fanbase expects it when a player has won them chips..
"I must be right, therefore all opinions that don't agree with mine are all a conspiracy I tell you" - Blackace, ladies and gentleman.
Magic may or may not feel that way in private, but West/Magic/Shaq have all stated they think Kobe's the best Laker ever at some point or another in the past couple years publicly. I'm not saying he is, I'm just saying that the idea that Kobe/Magic/West is the Lakers top tier is the popular consensus of Laker fans, and something most in the group, including all time greats, agree with. For the record, When Kobe was asked, he said it was West and Magic too.
I do live in LA, Horry, Fisher, Byron Scott are 3 of our absolute favorite role players. All 3 left LA or were traded at some point, there's an obvious problem that most fans have when that happens. We get over it quickly and it settles back into place.
There was less respect for Pippen from Chicago fans right after he bolted from the Bulls than there is today. It's what happens when a player leaves...but in no way were any of those guys' stocks actually damaged.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I call it like I see it.. so stuff the sorry ass attempts of being witty..
Horry was treated and still treated like crap..
It has been about a decade since Shaq left.. so you guys should be singing his praises again.. but 7 years and 3 chips with him being the most important player (without a doubt) of the 3peat isn't Laker enough.. gotcha..
Exactly.
Every time I look up when I go to a game there, I get the same feeling as I did when I was a kid. I don't sit there debating "How many years did he play for us?".
DJ wasn't a role player. He was a Hall of Fame caliber player.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Jeffrey wishes he has 7 rings.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Seattle Supersonic great DJ was indeed a HoF player
Who said it's not enough? He's on the tier with Wilt and Kareem for God's sakes. You're legitimately asking Laker fans to take a guy who showed up out of shape to training camp on multiple occasions, and played here for a combined total of 8 years, and then threw the organization and its owners and future icon under the bus and place him above a guy who played here for 16 years, brought his hard had to work every day, backed up his talk with results, defined a decade for our franchise, won 5 championships...and you're getting frustrated that we don't see it your way?
Go tell Jazz Fans to knock Stockton down a few pegs while you're at it.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
rings on rings on rings
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
lol.. Wilt and Kareem are lesser than now...Kobe is the most comical thing I have heard
7 years is a long time... I think you'd be hard pressed to a better 7 years in your torch bearers than Shaq gave you..
Stop pretending that Pierce isn't more valuable to Celtics Fans than KG despite KG being a better player because of the difference in years, or that Parish isn't more valuable than Bill Walton despite Bill Walton being an overall better player.
Years of service do matter, and if they don't to you, they do to most every one else
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
He did say Walton is the only player that C fans are like "fuck that guy"...
and Kg in his prime is better than PP but I would say that PP has aged better than KG..
8 dude, 8
And again, it's pretty clear that you don't have an appreciation for Kobe's career that's in line with Kobe's actual career accomplishments or most objective people's opinion of him. And that's fine, but when your arguments are inconsistent as shit in favor of everyone but Kobe, well then...carry on.
First you put Kareem above Kobe, now you're putting Shaq as well. A small percentage of basketball minds think Shaq was a better overall player than Kobe, NONE percentage think Shaq should have a higher place in Laker lore...you're wrong dude, move on.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
really, just about everyone but you and Mamba have agreed with me... if I am SO wrong why hasn't everyone jumped my shit? oh.. wait maybe it's because it's not so clear cut..
I can understand WHY Kobe is the modern day poster boy for Laker fans.. but I don't understand how you can poo-poo on Kareem, Wilt and Shaq.. the only reason you have chips at all..
1) people on this forum don't constitute "basketball minds"...we constitute fans, there is kind of a difference.
2) Kobe won two without either of those bigs...Kareem/Shaq/Wilt Finals MVP's in LA - 5....Kobe/West/Magic Finals MVP's - 6
The fact that you can even make a statement like the bolded when it's not factually accurate, shows your PERSONAL PREFERENCE for Centers over guards. But you choose to give them more credit, most LA Fans give the guards more credit. Our Guards accomplished more, won more chips, got more Finals MVP's, and played their entire careers here. The Bigs didn't, and two of the 3 were past their prime when they were here, and not the de-facto leaders of our ball club either. Magic/West were the leaders of their ball clubs, and Kobe was the leader when Shaq finally left...and he's proven he can do a great job in that department.
I still think you're missing the point.
KG / Pierce comparison is irrelevant because they are still members of this basketball club. Unless something absurd happens, we are going to look back at them both fondly.
We are discussing primarily first the disrespect you are giving one of the greatest players of all time, playing the most dominant basketball of his career, and delivering your franchise arguably the best years in it's history.
The only person who can compare to your situation in my world is Pedro Martinez. The level of franchise success is obviously variable. We had seven seasons. Seven seasons of the best pitcher on the planet. He started with another club, finished with a couple other.
Really? I'd take threepeat Shaq over pretty much any player in NBA history. Dude was a fucking beast.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
alright lets calm down here bro
WesternHeretic
Member
What about Jordan's threepeat, retire go play baseball come back and threepeat again?
Shaq was also the most dominant force in the game when he was getting swept in the playoffs and under-achieving playing alongside two other all-stars in nick van exel and Eddie Jones.
The Shaq/Kobe pairing was like today's Wade/Lebron pairing or the Durant/Westbrook pairing. They were two top 5 players in the league at the time, if not in 2000, than definitely in 2001 and 2002. You are acting as if Shaq single handily took the Lakers to the promised Land, when he did no such thing. Kobe's the one who scored 15 points in the fourth quarter of game 7 WCF and the 4 points that gave us the lead and then the alley oop to Shaq to win that game and send us to our first finals. He's the one who won game 4 in Indiana in overtime after Shaq got fouled out. And that's all just the year 2000...The difference between 1998 and 2000 wasn't Shaq's improvement, it was Kobe's. Shaq led a team to the Finals and dominated his conference before, he was dominant in 1996, 1998, 2000, and 2002. The difference was Kobe's emergence.
I have a much more realistic appreciation of what Shaq has accomplished, than you do of what Kobe's accomplished. That's the real disconnect here.
Edit: And no, you know nothing of our franchise. The best Years in our history was Magic and Kareem beating the Celtics from 85-87. That was the height of Showtime basketball, and much more important for our city and our franchise than beating Indiana/Philly/NJ. You could even honestly have a debate among Laker fans whether they appreciated 2000-2002 more than 2008-2010. One less chip, but beating the Celtics counts for a whole lot more around here.
ryutaro's mama
Member
These discussions don't go anywhere, ever.
And Vag is to Kobe what Trax is to Jeffrey.
And Vag is to Kobe what Trax is to Jeffrey.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
when Shaq left was the key point it was Shaq's team no debate
as for basketball minds most people on these forums are just as informed as paid experts like Smith so really so should have pounded my statement
and Kobe did without a dead Wilt an elderly Kareem and spurned Shaq but he did have a decent playing Pau at that time
really no wing outside of MJ has won without a post Kobe is a great but he wasnt the best player in 4 his final wins
Actually, I know quite a bit about your franchise. You did hit the nail on the head. Without the Celtics, the Lakers simply weren't the popular franchise you see today. LA culture and all.
I do understand Kobe's progression. I still don't think he is a member of the franchise without having O'Neal's draw and ability during the late 90s.
Hakeem would take that threepeat and put it into a zeropeat.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
Dudes, the Laker talk should be in the loserbro thread
1) True, it was Shaq's team, and those were his finals MVP's.
2) The difference is that paid experts attempt to be objective in one way or another. Fans, for the most part don't. Kobe's the most hated basketball athlete of his generation by a great deal many fans, and the arguably the most revered by his contemporaries and objective analysts.
3) If your argument is that MJ was better than Kobe because (in part) he didn't play with a great big man...I agree. But Kobe in 2001-2002 was a much greater player than Pau ever was, so even bringing Pau up to take credit away from Kobe when you give all the 2000-2002 championship credit to Shaq is a perfect example of your inconsistency.
True, and Magic probably doesn't come here if Kareem wasn't here already. But this isn't a game of what if's
ryutaro's mama
Member
Joke was unfunny last night too.
Odom to the Knicks would be perfect. Another useless player that only serves to build hopes that would soon be crushed. perfect.
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