jobber
Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
I H8 U
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2013 NBA Playoffs |OT3| Don't believe the pipe
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
I H8 U
ok then please stop telling me that I'm anything like you
You just started watching basketball 3 years ago...the root against factor takes some time to develop...
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
meh. that makes for a mighty unenjoyable life of fandom. i use to hate watching MJ lead his team to a title year in year out but he was extremely entertaining to watch. same with kobe. as much as I can't stand him and his antics over the years, he's been amazing and his ability to fight through pain and adversity is something to respect. LeBron is a talent that is once a generation. If you seriously can't enjoy watching what he does on the court night in night out then i don't see how you can call yourself a basketball fan.
Join Date: 03-25-2010
lol of course that's as far as your knowledge would go
he's in a special class with Konex
Were you a Miami fan in the 90's? Did you enjoy watching Patrick Ewing play? or Pat Riley coach?
Ask a Spurs fan how much they enjoyed watching Shaq and Kobe win titles from 2000-2002.
To each his own, but rooting against someone or a team is part of sports as well.
That's the standard joke that applies to all Heat Fans...Phee ain't exempt!
Psychological Intellect
Banned
he literally just said he hated watching jordan stomp on the league(including miami, but michael bolton is a blazers fan).
Diprosalic
Banned
did the spurs sweep yet?
I didn't ask him if he watched basketball in the 90's. I asked him if he was a Miami fan then because I wasn't sure.
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
I enjoy watching good basketball. I don't enjoy watching players win who are on teams that I am not a fan of. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching them play. I enjoyed watching the Knicks/Bulls games because it was good basketball. I enjoyed watching the Barkley/KJ suns play the Sonics/Lakers/Spurs/Jazz because it was good basketball.
I enjoy watching LeBron James play because I've never seen a player of his size have such speed, strength, and the ability to play all aspects of the game at such a level. Shaq was the most dominating single force I've ever personally seen play but he was a center so it's not a fair comparison. I'm not saying LeBron is better than all those before him, I'm saying that I've never seen a force like him. Why wouldn't I enjoy seeing him at his best?
I guess I'm just not as much of a hater as some folks are.
Syphon Filter
Member
Naw, looking forward to Timmy's 5th ring.
Diprosalic
Banned
you and me both.
so what you're really telling me is that you're looking forward to an off-season of more duncan vs kobe debates
I get it. And Lebron, along with Shaq, is probably the single most dominating physical specimen I've ever seen play the game as well. I enjoy watching Kyrie play, and Rubio, and Curry, and a whole host of other players. I enjoy watching the Bulls play because of their grit, and the Spurs play because of their execution.
I enjoy watching a team like Chicago and Indiana which don't have the talent level of Miami compete against them and come out ahead some games or keep other games tight.
Besides all that, Lebron's game isn't all that aesthetically pleasing to me. His power dunks are, when he gets on fire from the perimeter and hits a bunch of jumpers, that is. But his forceful bull through a china shop low post and driving game that ends in a scoop shot here or there...that's not aesthetically pleasing to me anyway.
So even if he wasn't #1 on my list of people I rooted against, the style of his game isn't really what I enjoy watching.
timetokill
Banned
Way back when I was a fan of the Jazz, it was just fun to watch guys like Stockton/Malone/Hornacek (new coaching job for him now, right?) play, and it fucking sucked to keep going against Jordan and the fucking Bulls. But I never hated the guy, nor did I really hate the team. He was great, I just wish he could've played at a different time 
There's only two teams I "hate": the Lakers, because I live in LA and those car flags suck and people get totally stupid when it comes to that team, and the Celtics because fuck Boston.
There's only two teams I "hate": the Lakers, because I live in LA and those car flags suck and people get totally stupid when it comes to that team, and the Celtics because fuck Boston.
It's not a debate. TD wins.
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
Is he more valuable to a team? Yes.
Has he been more successful? Most definitely?
Better leader? Obviously.
Is he a better PLAYER than Kobe? That is very much debatable. Starting a franchise it's not even an argument, you take Timmy 10/10 times. But if you want the better PLAYER ignoring everything else (i.e., teammates, leadership, etc.,) Kobe can definitely be argued as that guy.
That's an interesting idea.
I think people think Timmy has been 2003 Timmy for the last 15 years. In reality, he hasn't even been the undisputed best PF for the last 6 years. His chips came 1) lockout year when LA had Kurt Rambis as the coach 2) in 2003 when LA was trying to go for a fourth straight chip...something only Russell has ever done and 3)2005 and 2007 when Kobe was on a bad team.
Why do I put Timmy's accomplishments in connection with LA? Because from 1999-2008 Timmy won 4 chips. He was injured in the playoffs one year and the team lost in the first round. The other 5 times he didn't win? Beat by LA 4 times, and once by Dirk in 2006.
Timmy was the best PF in the league for 9-10 years, and in that 10 years, the only team he consistently lost to was LA.
From 2008-2013..there's no comparison as to who the better player was. It's Kobe, both in individual dominance and in team success.
If you stack up their careers side by side. Timmy comes up just short, unless he wins a fifth ring. Then the debate makes more sense.
Edit: Kobe went from being on a horrible team to a 3 time successive Finalist in one year by simply giving him one more all star and upping his role players. If Kobe didn't spend his absolute prime with horrible players and instead the team got more from the Shaq trade or rebuilt quicker...Timmy doesn't have 4 rings today.
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
And Kobe wasn't such a nimrod in 2004 perhaps he has another ring. If Kobe doesn't take the last 3 shots in 1997 perhaps the Lakers go to the finals. If Kobe isn't partially responsible for Shaq being traded in 2005 perhaps the Lakers win a couple more rings. If Tim Duncan doesn't get injured in the year he did perhaps the Spurs have 5 rings by now.
Lets NOT go the 'what if' route.
4 alpha rings > Kobe
theignoramus
Member
You can surround TD with just about any player without team chemistry imploding. You cant do the same for Kobe. He's more explosive on the offensive side of things and there might not be anything more terrifying to opponents than his one on five scoring runs, but he's an asshole who will ball hog, force shots and air his teammates out through the press.
His highs are more jaw dropping than Duncan's but his lows are so much lower and goddamn ugly to watch. Like those times this season when he refused to shoot the basketball cause he wanted to prove a point. He will hang his teammates out to dry whenever he damn well pleases.
With Duncan you're getting consistency on defensive possessions, and when he's having an off night scoring the basketball, he's not looking off teammates and fucking up your offense with bad, low percentage shots.
Does Kobe have more individual talent than Duncan? Yes. Is he a better basketball player? No.
His highs are more jaw dropping than Duncan's but his lows are so much lower and goddamn ugly to watch. Like those times this season when he refused to shoot the basketball cause he wanted to prove a point. He will hang his teammates out to dry whenever he damn well pleases.
With Duncan you're getting consistency on defensive possessions, and when he's having an off night scoring the basketball, he's not looking off teammates and fucking up your offense with bad, low percentage shots.
Does Kobe have more individual talent than Duncan? Yes. Is he a better basketball player? No.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I love plenty of players that kill the Jazz and the players I dislike are for reasons other than how they affect the Jazz other than my dislike for Jordan.
Maybe I'm weird I guess.
Maybe I'm weird I guess.
Shaq could have gotten traded and LA could still have won. Kobe proved that by winning 2 more chips. LA just got nothing back in the Shaq trade and spent 3 years not adding salary or trying to compete on purpose. It's why Kobe demanded a trade.
The bottom line is, Kobe has been able to beat Timmy in the post season multiple times. He's done it with Shaq and without Shaq. Kobe's the only guy in the Western Conference who has been able to consistently do it. So him on a bad team for 3 years was an opportunity for Timmy to win. Once he got a good team, he beat the Spurs.
So saying he wasn't valuable to his team, or he wasn't a good leader is silly. a 23 year old Timmy, a 23 year old Jordan, a 23 year old Magic...all of them would be the second option to a prime Shaq and all of them would probably have issues with Shaq's work ethic or their place as a second option. That's not a way to assess Kobe's value when he's proven he can win on his own consistently if he's on a good team.
Not a single player in NBA history, Jordan included, that wouldn't be a second option to prime Shaq as a 21-22 year old. Kobe's been on a team good enough to win without Shaq for only like 5 years. He's made 3 finals and won 2 chips. Timmy's been on a 50 win team his whole career and has 2 more chips. Give Kobe 15 years of 50 win team talent as the first option and you don't think he gets 2 more chips than he did in 5 years with that level of talent? lol ok.
.JPG)
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
Tim Duncan wouldn't have missed the playoffs with that 04-05 Laker squad.
Lmao wow. Kinda creepy when you put it out there like that
Vire
Member
*Slow clap*
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
KG > Kobe
LOL
ok i laughed. Someone has to correct all the utterly stupid shit people say on here about LA and KB
See, dumb shit like this
theignoramus
Member
oh shit
It's close, but I give KG the edge on bitch level.
Agreed.
Psychological Intellect
Banned
hmmmmmm, pretty close, I'm not sure who'd I give the edge to.
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
Better player: Hakeem or Kobe?
Dominican Power
Member
Griner styling on these chicks.
Don't know. Hakeem had a great stretch in the mid 90's and that's what we remember him by. All time blocks leader ( that would probably be Russell though if they kept count) and led the league in steals, that's super impressive. Best post offensive game ever. So there's that.
But I think Kobe's one of the 4 or 5 most complete basketball players to ever play. Defensively he was elite for a long time, and very good for many years after that. Offensively had every trick in the book, could rebound for his position, could run a team without a true PG for 15 years.
I tend to favor guards anyway because of their ability to hit the 3, run the offense, get back on a fast break, initiate a fast break. And in the post, Kobe wasn't Hakeem, but after MJ he was probably the best guard to ever play in the post so... it's tough.
Byakuya769
Member
He's not even divorced yet. Don't think he can go through that many marriages so quickly.
I love how you do this thing where you build up the other player, and then swoop in with the "But Kobe..."
Tragicomedy
Member
Kobe is a VERY poor man's version of MJ. You know, the version devoid of any leadership skills, concept of teamwork, and the idea that not every freaking shot he tosses up is a good one. Also, Jordan was roughly 5.8 times more talented. It's mathematically proven
Duncan...well, there's never been a PF like him. He's the best ever at his position.
using Vag's advanced sabermatrics and definition of "mean."
Duncan...well, there's never been a PF like him. He's the best ever at his position.