HI. BILLY MAYS HERE
Banned
Did MVP ever make an appearance last night ?
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2014 NBA Finals |OT| Some dude guarantees they will win it all.
- Thread starter UnObtainium17
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Jordan scored 50 + points every playoff game too!
And especially after his legs cramped up.
Basketball is also dead any time Miami wins a game or championship.
BadAss2961
Member
lol @ Stephen A. welcoming the idea of LeBron teaming with Melo, possibly jumping ship (again) to make it happen, and Miami fans being lax enough to not boo the shit out of that idea on First Take.
Is it really cool for Bron to ring chase for the majority of his career? Such a weak message to budding stars around the league.
Is it really cool for Bron to ring chase for the majority of his career? Such a weak message to budding stars around the league.
Stephen A has been been saying this for months now.
That apparently Melo and Lebron want to play together if given the opportunity, meaning both hit FA next summer.
It all depends on cap space and what Pat Riley does in the off season to either keep Miami together or improves them. If Riley can somehow pull a move where he replaces Wade with Melo, the current Miami team with other minor tweaks can probably compete for another 2-3 Championships.
I don't see it happening though. It only works if Melo returns to the Knicks this season, waits for FA next off season, and Lebron and the Heat completely fall apart next season (meaning don't reach the finals).
That's not a weak message btw. Its what every team's FO is always trying to do. Its what every player should be doing. Chase rings not money. Don't let incompetent GMs, owners, and coaches control your destiny if they can't draft or build a strong team around you.
BadAss2961
Member
The difference in money is negligible considering all the other sources of income. Stephen A. even said it himself in the same segment i'm referring to, "LeBron is not just a basketball player, he's a BUSINESS man." Of course it also has to do with money. Just like Miami, they'd get max deals over $100m anyway. They just wouldn't get the bonus that staying with your team gives you.
It's a weak message because its no longer about building your own franchise and staying true to your fanbase, it's about ring chasin'. It's one thing for some players to do this, but another for the face of the league to.
1.) I still don't think Bron and Melo are a good fit together.
2.) I honestly don't think Lebron will leave Miami. Look at how upset he got after the decision blew up in his face, look at how much he seeks approval, look at that ridiculous headband. The guy is very self-conscience. IMO there is no way the guy jumps ship again to go to New York. He knows that will basically be the nail in his coffin when it comes to peoples perception of him and his legacy. He'll ask Melo to come to Miami if he really wants to play with him.
2.) I honestly don't think Lebron will leave Miami. Look at how upset he got after the decision blew up in his face, look at how much he seeks approval, look at that ridiculous headband. The guy is very self-conscience. IMO there is no way the guy jumps ship again to go to New York. He knows that will basically be the nail in his coffin when it comes to peoples perception of him and his legacy. He'll ask Melo to come to Miami if he really wants to play with him.
If Melo joins Lebron I'm joining HeatHaterGAF, Lebronisn'tJordanGAF, and LebronHatersGAF at the same time.
Do you think Riley or whatever GM they take their talents to, convinces Kyle Lowry, Paul Pierce, Dirk, and Paul Gasol to take pay cuts to join them? At least two out of those three should all but guarantee a ring in the east.
BadAss2961
Member
He's got a deep tribe of homers (including an entire cable network minus Skip Bayless) that not only forgave him for leaving Cleveland, but now applaud him for it and whatever bitch-made shit he does going forward.
By now he probably figures he can do anything without being held accountable. I wouldn't be shocked if he leaves Miami this year or the next. "D.Wade, it was fun, but your knees..."
Kobe would have 1 ring without shaq.
Tragicomedy
Member
Funny, coming from the guy who has sent me PMs asking to join the new forum.
No need to keep spamming invites on practically every page, carefully orchestrated to be the first post on new pages. We get it. We'll still be here when you guys come crawling back.
BadAss2961
Member
I'm no Kobe fan, but how is Shaq responsible for one of Kobe's 2 rings without him?
More proof that basketball fans IQ is arguably the lowest on this forum.
And :lol at the reporters last night. They were being intentionally stupid. Pop and Spols reactions were classic.
MetalFearSolid
Banned
Kobe would have 2 rings without shaq
HI. BILLY MAYS HERE
Banned
BadAss2961
Member
These guys continue to be on point. lol
ohhthegore
Member
Kobe won 2 with Gasoft, crackhead Odom, and a bum named Bynum while Bron has 2 with Wade, Bosh, and Ray Allen. Which team you think it'd be easier to win with?
MetalFearSolid
Banned
Phil Jackson and Melo part was amazing
And the Rondo part.
And the Rondo part.
Nah he would have 0. You have to take into account the butterfly effect. Kobe wouldn't have been on a contender until he was in his late 20s, if ever, without shaq. By then, he would have been regarded as the joe johnson or gilbert areanas of his generation.
ohhthegore
Member
perfect
Not sure if trolling but when those lakers were healthy they were a force. Kobe had arguably two of the top 3 players at their respective positions and Odom was one of the better role players in the league.
BadAss2961
Member
Kobe was a legit scorer above the likes of Joe Johnson and Gilbert Arenas. Being in LA, I have no doubt another star would've eventually joined him and gotten him a couple championships.
jordan0386
Member
Kobe asked to be traded, twice. Nobody was coming to LA.
He lucked into a prime Gasol.
FullMetalx117
Member
Pat Riley is a mastermind Godfather. That is all.
Wait are you replying to me in the first part? When did I say anything about money and taking less? Just that you still have a cap and while they might take a discount here and there, you still need to pay these guys. Its not as easy for Melo to just up and leave and join Miami.
Staying true to your fanbase? LOL WTF is this? That whole notion left the building when FA was introduced. Players have no obligations to stick with a franchise especially when that franchise is completely incompetent. In what other profession are you supposed to stay loyal to your boss when your boss is a complete moron and you have much better options available?
Players get traded left and right but its all right if the GM does it right? What about staying true to the fanbase then? God forbid a player utilizes his rights as a FA to join a better team to win a ring or two.
The face of the league just needs to be the best player, win MVPs, and win rings. This hate for a FA to leave the team that drafted is something completely new and unique with Lebron.
I've already listed a bunch of players past and current who maneuvered behind the scenes, gotten coaches fired, forced trades, and chased rings though other avenues. Not one of them is held to this impossible standard. If Lebron stays in Cleveland, much like his first 7 seasons, they probably don't win a ring. And the anti-Lebron train is hammering him for not winning anything and not being in the same league as Jordan and Kobe.
Cause you know those guys did on shit teams all by themselves.
LOL ESPN forgave him. What planet do you guys live on?
ESPN doesn't own Lebron. They aren't his parents and they never blamed him or forgave him.
But just to see how stupid this can get, how does ESPN applaud him for leaving? And can you point to the moment when ESPN forgave him?
Or Kobe would have gotten fed up and bitched and moaned to be traded much like his draft night and post Phil and Shaq when he wanted out of LA for them not signing, trading for, or developing stars for him to play with.
BadAss2961
Member
I rest my case. The Lakers will always acquire talent.
But anyway, that was superstar 3 rings Kobe that asked to be traded. It would've been a different situation without Shaq. He would've been younger, a little less big-headed, and it wouldn't have been long before the Lakers got someone to join him.
BadAss2961
Member
You said it wasn't about the money, but about winning rings. And correct me if i'm mistaking you for someone else, but I also remember you saying that LeBron/Wade/Bosh should be credited for taking less money to go to Miami -- as if it were some sort of sacrifice.
On staying true to your fanbase, LeBron was "The King" of Cleveland and all of Ohio. Being traded was never something he'd have to worry about because he WAS the Cleveland Cavaliers. It was his franchise, his city, and he bailed on them.
On ESPN, do you watch them? They slurp LeBron 24/7, and have applauded him for leaving Cleveland pretty much because they weren't worthy of his greatness. All of his teammates over there have been thrown under the bus by ESPN and even LeBron himself.
Dominican Power
Member
He didn't bail out. He left an incompetent organization -- as you can see they've gotten 4 number 1's since his departure -- to play win another top 5 player and a top 20 player.
jordan0386
Member
Fuck Cleveland. He did his seven years.
People switch jobs for a single dollar an hour every day. Why can't Bron work where he wants.
He is nobody's child but Glorias. Its not your career.
People switch jobs for a single dollar an hour every day. Why can't Bron work where he wants.
He is nobody's child but Glorias. Its not your career.
Tragicomedy
Member
And Delonte West is his stepdad.
BadAss2961
Member
How were they incompetent? They're just a small market that's in the lottery every year because the best player in the league left them. They're no more incompetent than most of the East.
With LeBron, they were one step away from a championship. They weren't garbage.
JinjoUnchained
Member
The past few pages of this thread are depressing. Instead of a discussion of Game 3 and whether the Heat can turn it around, we've got a bunch of insecure haters salivating at the chance to jump on LeBron.
Let's see if we can shed some light on this asinine discussion. It's true that the West is much deeper and tougher than the East and the Heat had a relatively easy road to the Finals this year. While the Spurs were pushed to the limit by an 8 seed that would have home court advantage in the East, the Heat barely broke a sweat in the first round by a bottom-feeder that only made the playoffs because they got out-tanked by other tankers. That pattern mostly continued until The Finals.
Still, just because the East is weak, it doesn't necessarily follow that the Heat wouldn't make it out of the West. The Heat had the 5th best record, but it's clear that they were saving themselves for the playoffs. They dropped 5 of their last 6 games after their seed was secured and rested Wade for 1/3 of the season. During the regular season and on paper, they match up well with the best of the West, sporting a 20-10 record. It's all hypothetical, but on paper, the Spurs are the only West team that you might favor against the Heat in a 7 game series due to their depth, athleticism, and ball movement. The Clippers, Rockets, and Mavericks don't play defense well enough to hang with the Heat. The Grizzlies and Warriors don't play offense well enough (similar to the Bulls out east). The Thunder and Blazers are better balanced, but are both like weaker versions of the Heat at full strength.
Add it up and the Heat are probably one of the top 3 teams in the league, if not top 2. I could see the Thunder beating them at their own game for a game or two, with Westbrook's crazy speed, Durant's crazy accuracy, and Ibaka down low. The Grizzlies might beat them once if they could make it an ugly game. Besides that, the Spurs are the only team out west that would give the Heat a problem. So it really doesn't matter that the Heat play in a weaker conference. There is no statistical evidence that extra rest or "rust" affects playoff performance. The only thing that matters is which team is better constructed, coached, healthier, and matches up better. Strength or weakness of other teams in your conference is not a factor in a teams' overall quality.
With that out of the way, the Spurs have played better so far and are up 2-1 because they are deeper, better coached, and match up better. Compared to last years' Finals, the Spurs are mostly the same, but their role players are better. The Heat, on the other hand, are thinner (no Mike Miller, regression by Battier and Bird Man) and rely on LeBron as much as the Cavs ever did. Bosh is mostly a 3 and D role player. Wade has lost a step and still scores, but not at a sufficient rate. Ray Allen is about the same: clutch shooting and poor defense. Chalmers and Cole have been bad. As stated above, they are still in the top 3 despite these facts because of LeBron. LeBron scores around the basket at an astronomical rate and is well above league average from outside the paint too. This is in spite of the fact he has one the leagues' highest usage rates, which usually hurts efficiency. The Heat succeed based upon LeBron's brilliance, hot stretches by Wade, great athleticism, and clutch shooting by LeBron, Bosh, Allen, and Rashard Lewis.
Those strengths have been enough to cover for their weaknesses up until the Finals, but thus far, it hasn't worked against the Spurs. Their athleticism and ball movement is wearing down the Heat. LeBron has done all he can, but the Heat have lessened the damage somewhat with Kawahi's defense. The rest of the series will be about whether the Heat can slow down the Spurs and get more consistent production from players not named LeBron. They have in years past, but maybe not with this squad.
Can't wait for Game 4!
Let's see if we can shed some light on this asinine discussion. It's true that the West is much deeper and tougher than the East and the Heat had a relatively easy road to the Finals this year. While the Spurs were pushed to the limit by an 8 seed that would have home court advantage in the East, the Heat barely broke a sweat in the first round by a bottom-feeder that only made the playoffs because they got out-tanked by other tankers. That pattern mostly continued until The Finals.
Still, just because the East is weak, it doesn't necessarily follow that the Heat wouldn't make it out of the West. The Heat had the 5th best record, but it's clear that they were saving themselves for the playoffs. They dropped 5 of their last 6 games after their seed was secured and rested Wade for 1/3 of the season. During the regular season and on paper, they match up well with the best of the West, sporting a 20-10 record. It's all hypothetical, but on paper, the Spurs are the only West team that you might favor against the Heat in a 7 game series due to their depth, athleticism, and ball movement. The Clippers, Rockets, and Mavericks don't play defense well enough to hang with the Heat. The Grizzlies and Warriors don't play offense well enough (similar to the Bulls out east). The Thunder and Blazers are better balanced, but are both like weaker versions of the Heat at full strength.
Add it up and the Heat are probably one of the top 3 teams in the league, if not top 2. I could see the Thunder beating them at their own game for a game or two, with Westbrook's crazy speed, Durant's crazy accuracy, and Ibaka down low. The Grizzlies might beat them once if they could make it an ugly game. Besides that, the Spurs are the only team out west that would give the Heat a problem. So it really doesn't matter that the Heat play in a weaker conference. There is no statistical evidence that extra rest or "rust" affects playoff performance. The only thing that matters is which team is better constructed, coached, healthier, and matches up better. Strength or weakness of other teams in your conference is not a factor in a teams' overall quality.
With that out of the way, the Spurs have played better so far and are up 2-1 because they are deeper, better coached, and match up better. Compared to last years' Finals, the Spurs are mostly the same, but their role players are better. The Heat, on the other hand, are thinner (no Mike Miller, regression by Battier and Bird Man) and rely on LeBron as much as the Cavs ever did. Bosh is mostly a 3 and D role player. Wade has lost a step and still scores, but not at a sufficient rate. Ray Allen is about the same: clutch shooting and poor defense. Chalmers and Cole have been bad. As stated above, they are still in the top 3 despite these facts because of LeBron. LeBron scores around the basket at an astronomical rate and is well above league average from outside the paint too. This is in spite of the fact he has one the leagues' highest usage rates, which usually hurts efficiency. The Heat succeed based upon LeBron's brilliance, hot stretches by Wade, great athleticism, and clutch shooting by LeBron, Bosh, Allen, and Rashard Lewis.
Those strengths have been enough to cover for their weaknesses up until the Finals, but thus far, it hasn't worked against the Spurs. Their athleticism and ball movement is wearing down the Heat. LeBron has done all he can, but the Heat have lessened the damage somewhat with Kawahi's defense. The rest of the series will be about whether the Heat can slow down the Spurs and get more consistent production from players not named LeBron. They have in years past, but maybe not with this squad.
Can't wait for Game 4!
I never faulted Lebron for leaving, just the manner in which he went about it.
Cleveland is a joke of an organization, just look at how they have managed that franchise over the last several seasons. They are an incompetent mess.
EDIT: Jinjo, no one said the heat couldn't come out in the west.
Cleveland is a joke of an organization, just look at how they have managed that franchise over the last several seasons. They are an incompetent mess.
EDIT: Jinjo, no one said the heat couldn't come out in the west.
Yes, Lowry is going to take a pay cut after playing the season of his life ahead of his first real opportunity for big money in his career.
Maybe Pierce and Pau, I guess.
BadAss2961
Member
What would you have done differently to fix losing LeBron though?
Drafted better? The last few classes have been crapshoots.
Made some trades? Trade WHO for WHAT?
Got some hot free agents? Who the fuck wants to go to Cleveland?
Got a better coach? Who the fuck wants to coach there?
The sad truth is that there are a lot of smaller teams stuck in an endless loop of mediocrity in the NBA. The only way to get better is to get lucky.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
...did someone say Kobe?
CherryWoodFuton
Member
Then why the fuck is Lebron "obligated" to stay there then?
theignoramus
Member
fuck this tired debate. 2011 was 3 years ago.
Cause you know he was born there, promised them a ring, blah blah blah
Yeah it was a pretty pussy move to join Wade & Bosh initially but it has actually become more of a burden to him today. He's been carrying that team for 2 years now. Ray Allen pickup was much needed though
theignoramus
Member
this poster is cheesy and stupid. Lebron's first ring, Ray Allen was in Boston and the Heat had to get through him, Pierce, KG and Rondo to win that ring. In fact, the Celtics that year gave Miami a more competitive series than OKC.
BadAss2961
Member
Because it was his city, and they're only back in that situation because he bailed.
Could've been the house that LeBron built, but nope.
Jordan would've purposely teamed up with the 2 worst players in the league, and win 3 straight just to prove he can.
Gilbert, Mike Brown, Mo Williams, Varejao, and Delonte aren't ever gonna carry you to a ring.
BadAss2961
Member
Who has a better supporting cast than LeBron?
Look at Dirk. What he beat Miami with was nothing impressive.
Durant, Duncan, and Harden
It honestly sucks that it's "Wade's team" since dropping him would bring a whole lot of depth to the bench and starting lineup
Dirk was a beast in that series and the entire playoffs nearly sweeping everyone. I would also take Terry, Kidd and Chandler over Mo, Delonte, and Varejao anyday.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Even if Melo stays, the Knicks will be lucky to win 20 games next season. Best he cut bait and run to Miami, Indiana, LA, whatever.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
could you explain the scenes to me?
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