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2014 NBA Finals |OT| Some dude guarantees they will win it all.

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Lebron's salary for his day job is 1/3rd of his total income in a year.

The NBA is fucked.

The NFL elite endorsement guys are nearly always QBs and that auto corrects any combination shaving a bit on salary to join a team.

MLB it is nearly irrelevant issue.


Even before this recent exacerbation of the problem that is exemplified by the Heat.

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10 teams, 1/3rd of the NBA, for the past 30 years, is in the position of 'so your tellin' me there's a chance' with the consolation prize of being knocked the fuck out of the draft lottery.

Don't know how you could go about improving the situation. A franchise tag like in the NFL would do the trick but that usually would just reward a crap team that sucked extra hard to get a top pick player to begin with.
 
If anyone would have a problem with superstars taking major pay cuts , it would be the players union, not the owners. If this becomes a trend that's great for the owners. More money for them to pocket.

What exactly is the scenario by which Melo joins the Heat? Does it require them ditching Wade? Cause I don't see that happening?

No. Bron, Dwayne and Chris vacate their current contracts and accept new, smaller contracts in their place. Thus freeing up money to bring Melo on and re-sign/sign free agents.

Why? None of those owners have a shot at Melo or any other star player via free agency anyway? What do the Bucks or Cavs care if he's making the max in NY or making a little bit less than the max in Miami or Chicago?

Balance and competitiveness. Though it's certainly possible that there aren't enough balls in a single game for all 4 of them to get the number of shots they want, so maybe it won't work out as well as expected. Ultimately, the game has grown out of the days of decades long dynasty's to the betterment of the league and other franchises in general. A return to those days will fuck over 2/3's of the teams and their respective fanbases.

Again, I don't want the NBA to become what the MLB is where you know before spring training that your team doesn't even have a chance for relevant post-season play, where the best talent feels compelled to concentrate in large numbers in a handful of franchises. I'll be all but done with the game if it goes down like that.
 

agrajag

Banned
No. Bron, Dwayne and Chris vacate their current contracts and accept new, smaller contracts in their place. Thus freeing up money to bring Melo on and re-sign/sign free agents.



Balance and competitiveness. Though it's certainly possible that there aren't enough balls in a single game for all 4 of them to get the number of shots they want, so maybe it won't work out as well as expected. Ultimately, the game has grown out of the days of decades long dynasty's to the betterment of the league and other franchises in general.

Why would they, especially Wade and Bosh (who do not have the off-court revenue James has), do that? They sacrificed their salaries to make the big 3 happen, but they already got two rings, and surely they don't want to play for pennies (relatively speaking, of course). Especially in the event of them winning this series, I don't see them taking a pay cut at all.
 
Dwight Howard left money on the table from the Lakers to try to win "now" with Houston.

Howard left no money on the table. He moved to a state without income tax, and actually pockets a hell of a lot more cash at the end of the day than he did in California.

California State Income Tax: 13.3% (Income over $1 million)
Texas State Income Tax: 0%

He makes approximately $2.6 million more per year by living in Texas.
 

Abounder

Banned
Balance and competitiveness. Though it's certainly possible that there aren't enough balls in a single game for all 4 of them to get the number of shots they want, so maybe it won't work out as well as expected. Ultimately, the game has grown out of the days of decades long dynasty's to the betterment of the league and other franchises in general. A return to those days will fuck over 2/3's of the teams and their respective fanbases.

Again, I don't want the NBA to become what the MLB is where you know before spring training that your team doesn't even have a chance for relevant post-season play, where the best talent feels compelled to concentrate in large numbers in a handful of franchises. I'll be all but done with the game if it goes down like that.

I'd argue those days of superteams never left like the Gasol/KG trades that conveniently re-ignited the legendary Celtics/Lakers rivalry after the disappointing ratings between the Cavs and Spurs in 07.

And with the nature of basketball I think it will always be one of the easier if not the easiest pro sport to predict even before the summer league begins.

But I agree that the NBA needs to embrace teams and smaller markets more like the NFL does; instead the casual fan only cares about the NBA when there's controversy, superteams, or if it involves Lakers/Knicks.
 
Western Conference All Stars vs the Miami Heat.

The NBA certainly has an incentive to keep LeBron on the Heat, or at least in the Eastern conference. If he somehow ended up on a Western conference team, you might as well just fold the entire East and be done with it.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
What would you have done differently to fix losing LeBron though?

Drafted better? The last few classes have been crapshoots.

Made some trades? Trade WHO for WHAT?

Got some hot free agents? Who the fuck wants to go to Cleveland?

Got a better coach? Who the fuck wants to coach there?

The sad truth is that there are a lot of smaller teams stuck in an endless loop of mediocrity in the NBA. The only way to get better is to get lucky.
Yes.

They should have drafted better, been smarter with who they acquired and made trades for players that made sense for the team and weren't long shots or wishful thinking acquisitions that turned out to be short term, high cost rentals.

Small market teams like the Spurs, Thunder and Pacers have shown that while hard it is possible to build championship caliber teams in a small market if you can put together the right staff.

Hell, as much as I disagree with his bigger moves, my teams GM, Dell Demps, has been masterful at acquiring role players and trading assets that have little value for assets that do. He traded guys like Gustavo Ayon(that he got for nothing) for Ryan Anderson, Craig Brackins and Darius Songalia for Willie Green and Jason Smith. Julian Wright for Marco Belinelli and some scrubs for Robin Lopez. Got Anthony Morrow on the cheap. Unfortunately almost everyone of those pieces he pissed away in stupid trades but it goes to show that if you have a GM worth a shit that he can find talent to put around your players.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Howard left no money on the table. He moved to a state without income tax, and actually pockets a hell of a lot more cash at the end of the day than he did in California.

California State Income Tax: 13.3% (Income over $1 million)
Texas State Income Tax: 0%

He makes approximately $2.6 million more per year by living in Texas.

The same thing actually happened with Lebron in the move to the Heat. Makes less money Gross but the difference in gross is exceeded by the drop in taxes.

I think it's the same for Bosh, too.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
I'd argue those days of superteams never left like the Gasol/KG trades that conveniently re-ignited the legendary Celtics/Lakers rivalry after the disappointing ratings between the Cavs and Spurs in 07.

And with the nature of basketball I think it will always be one of the easier if not the easiest pro sport to predict even before the summer league begins.

But I agree that the NBA needs to embrace teams and smaller markets more like the NFL does; instead the casual fan only cares about the NBA when there's controversy, superteams, or if it involves Lakers/Knicks.

The Spurs should have been the model franchise for like the past 10-15 years for the NBA from an international marketing standpoint. Tons of international players, variety, well-coached, depth, etc.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
Am I just crazy thinking that Melo and Lebron are a horrible combination??

I mean I assume Wade is gone so now you have no defense at the 1 and 2, James at the 3 and Bosh playing the 4 or 5.

To me that team won't stop anyone. They will score but Melo's asshole tendencies have the chance to fuck up their offense royally at times when he starts ball hogging and chucking. Bosh becomes even less of a factor and the salaries coupled with the new cba, spreads their roster much thinner.
 

thekad

Banned
I like how people are still pretending Wade is a Top 10 player.

Jonm: Melo wouldn't be replacing any of the Big 3. He would be joining them. Instead of finishing games with

Lebron/Allen/Wade/RashardBattierMiller/Bosh

they would finish with

Lebron/Allen or whoever/Wade/Melo/Bosh
 

Jonm1010

Banned
The same thing actually happened with Lebron in the move to the Heat. Makes less money Gross but the difference in gross is exceeded by the drop in taxes.

I think it's the same for Bosh, too.

Whats the difference in property taxes though??
I like how people are still pretending Wade is a Top 10 player.

Jonm: Melo wouldn't be replacing any of the Big 3. He would be joining them. Instead of finishing games with Lebron/Allen/Wade/RashardBattierMiller/Bosh, they would finish with Lebron/Allen or whoever/Wade/Melo/Bosh
Can that even work for more then a year salary wise?
 
Again, I don't want the NBA to become what the MLB is where you know before spring training that your team doesn't even have a chance for relevant post-season play, where the best talent feels compelled to concentrate in large numbers in a handful of franchises. I'll be all but done with the game if it goes down like that.
Imagine thinking the NBA has more parity than MLB. Talent is less top heavy in baseball compared to basketball and it's distibuted more evenly.

Only reason some MLB teams might not feel like they are playoff contenders during spring training is because you don't have half of the teams making the playoffs. Any of the 8 teams that do make the MLB playoffs can conceivably win it all.

In contrast, there were what? 4 legit title contenders for NBA championship when the playoffs started?
 

BadAss2961

Member
Yes.

They should have drafted better, been smarter with who they acquired and made trades for players that made sense for the team and weren't long shots or wishful thinking acquisitions that turned out to be short term, high cost rentals.

Small market teams like the Spurs, Thunder and Pacers have shown that while hard it is possible to build championship caliber teams in a small market if you can put together the right staff.

Hell, as much as I disagree with his bigger moves, my teams GM, Dell Demps, has been masterful at acquiring role players and trading assets that have little value for assets that do. He traded guys like Gustavo Ayon(that he got for nothing) for Ryan Anderson, Craig Brackins and Darius Songalia for Willie Green and Jason Smith. Julian Wright for Marco Belinelli and some scrubs for Robin Lopez. Got Anthony Morrow on the cheap. Unfortunately almost everyone of those pieces he pissed away in stupid trades but it goes to show that if you have a GM worth a shit that he can find talent to put around your players.
Spurs got Duncan because of a David Robinson injury, and the rest is history.

OKC was fortunate enough to be in much better lotteries than Cleveland, and extremely lucky to be at #2 instead of #1 in '07, where they probably would've ended up with Oden. Props for Ibaka though.

It takes luck... You're right about the Pelicans. They've positioned themselves pretty well, but they're still not a playoff team. They'll either need to win big in the lottery again or use those pieces around The Unibrow to trade for a star. Tough to do in today's league where stars, even in trades, have tons of influence on where they end up.
 

Spinluck

Member
I like how people are still pretending Wade is a Top 10 player.

Jonm: Melo wouldn't be replacing any of the Big 3. He would be joining them. Instead of finishing games with

Lebron/Allen/Wade/RashardBattierMiller/Bosh

they would finish with

Lebron/Allen or whoever/Wade/Melo/Bosh

Bosh has been more valuable than Wade for a while.
 
Imagine thinking the NBA has more parity than MLB. Talent is less top heavy in baseball compared to basketball and it's distibuted more evenly.

Only reason some MLB teams might not feel like they are playoff contenders during spring training is because you don't have half of the teams making the playoffs. Any of the 8 teams that do make the MLB playoffs can conceivably win it all.

In contrast, there were what? 4 legit title contenders for NBA championship when the playoffs started?

The nature of each sport is completely different. You will never have that kind of parity in the NBA. You never have. Going back to the days is Russel and wilt and West and Baylor up to Kareem and magic and bird the less than a handful of teams who had the best players always monopolized the title contention.
 

Cloudy

Banned
Am I just crazy thinking that Melo and Lebron are a horrible combination??

They played well together in Olympics and Allstar games. Melo at his best is a catch and shoot player who can make quick moves in the post. He is not a guy who dribbles the ball into the ground when he has good teammates. On the same team, he and LeBron could switch between the 3 and 4 depending on the opponent.

That said, him going to Miami would be a complete joke
 

otapnam

Member
Yup. Bosh is better, younger, and plays a more important role for the Heat. If anyone should take a paycut it should be Wade, but I have my doubts he would.

I thought bosh was the one who really played consistently. He defers to the other 2 alot but does well when given the ball. As much as everyone clowns on him, he deserves alot of respect
 
The nature of each sport is completely different. You will never have that kind of parity in the NBA. You never have. Going back to the days is Russel and wilt and West and Baylor up to Kareem and magic and bird the less than a handful of teams who had the best players always monopolized the title contention.
Agreed. I was just perplexed at the insinuation that the NBA was better than the MLB in this regard. The idea that the best baseball players are concentrated in a handful of teams seems like a gross misunderstanding of the absence of a salary cap but I digress.

The inherent nature of basketball having low parity doesn't mean the parity situation in the NBA can't get worse if more superstars join the established good teams and leaving the lesser teams with an even thinner talent pool to draw from.
 

Fjordson

Member
The nature of each sport is completely different. You will never have that kind of parity in the NBA. You never have. Going back to the days is Russel and wilt and West and Baylor up to Kareem and magic and bird the less than a handful of teams who had the best players always monopolized the title contention.
Yep. One basketball player can theoretically affect every possession on both ends of the floor. The other major sports (namely baseball and football) have lots of specialist roles and people that don't play all the time. Pitchers not hitting and starting every 5 days, hitters who aren't great defenders. And in football a team's offensive and defensive squads are practically two separate teams.

But Melo going to Miami would be so gross.
 
Again, I don't want the NBA to become what the MLB is where you know before spring training that your team doesn't even have a chance for relevant post-season play, where the best talent feels compelled to concentrate in large numbers in a handful of franchises. I'll be all but done with the game if it goes down like that.

The NBA is already MUCH worse than MLB in this regard
 

Into

Member
Its good for the league in terms of ratings, it sucks for the league in terms of fans who support other teams.

People will fucking watch a "Big 4", because the level of hate for Heat will reach another tier.

The perfect story would be Heat to lose to Spurs now and then get Melo. The narrative is perfect. A Hollywood writer could not script this shit.
 

Blablurn

Member
Its good for the league in terms of ratings, it sucks for the league in terms of fans who support other teams.

People will fucking watch a "Big 4", because the level of hate for Heat will reach another tier.

The perfect story would be Heat to lose to Spurs now and then get Melo. The narrative is perfect. A Hollywood writer could not script this shit.

Isn't it what the NBA needs? Some more drama for national attention? The East might suffer because of it but at least the headlines were there.
 

Blackhead

Redarse
The past few pages of this thread are depressing. Instead of a discussion of Game 3 and whether the Heat can turn it around, we've got a bunch of insecure haters salivating at the chance to jump on LeBron.

Let's see if we can shed some light on this asinine discussion. It's true that the West is much deeper and tougher than the East and the Heat had a relatively easy road to the Finals this year. While the Spurs were pushed to the limit by an 8 seed that would have home court advantage in the East, the Heat barely broke a sweat in the first round by a bottom-feeder that only made the playoffs because they got out-tanked by other tankers. That pattern mostly continued until The Finals.

Still, just because the East is weak, it doesn't necessarily follow that the Heat wouldn't make it out of the West. The Heat had the 5th best record, but it's clear that they were saving themselves for the playoffs. They dropped 5 of their last 6 games after their seed was secured and rested Wade for 1/3 of the season. During the regular season and on paper, they match up well with the best of the West, sporting a 20-10 record. It's all hypothetical, but on paper, the Spurs are the only West team that you might favor against the Heat in a 7 game series due to their depth, athleticism, and ball movement. The Clippers, Rockets, and Mavericks don't play defense well enough to hang with the Heat. The Grizzlies and Warriors don't play offense well enough (similar to the Bulls out east). The Thunder and Blazers are better balanced, but are both like weaker versions of the Heat at full strength.

Add it up and the Heat are probably one of the top 3 teams in the league, if not top 2. I could see the Thunder beating them at their own game for a game or two, with Westbrook's crazy speed, Durant's crazy accuracy, and Ibaka down low. The Grizzlies might beat them once if they could make it an ugly game. Besides that, the Spurs are the only team out west that would give the Heat a problem. So it really doesn't matter that the Heat play in a weaker conference. There is no statistical evidence that extra rest or "rust" affects playoff performance. The only thing that matters is which team is better constructed, coached, healthier, and matches up better. Strength or weakness of other teams in your conference is not a factor in a teams' overall quality.

With that out of the way, the Spurs have played better so far and are up 2-1 because they are deeper, better coached, and match up better. Compared to last years' Finals, the Spurs are mostly the same, but their role players are better. The Heat, on the other hand, are thinner (no Mike Miller, regression by Battier and Bird Man) and rely on LeBron as much as the Cavs ever did. Bosh is mostly a 3 and D role player. Wade has lost a step and still scores, but not at a sufficient rate. Ray Allen is about the same: clutch shooting and poor defense. Chalmers and Cole have been bad. As stated above, they are still in the top 3 despite these facts because of LeBron. LeBron scores around the basket at an astronomical rate and is well above league average from outside the paint too. This is in spite of the fact he has one the leagues' highest usage rates, which usually hurts efficiency. The Heat succeed based upon LeBron's brilliance, hot stretches by Wade, great athleticism, and clutch shooting by LeBron, Bosh, Allen, and Rashard Lewis.

Those strengths have been enough to cover for their weaknesses up until the Finals, but thus far, it hasn't worked against the Spurs. Their athleticism and ball movement is wearing down the Heat. LeBron has done all he can, but the Heat have lessened the damage somewhat with Kawahi's defense. The rest of the series will be about whether the Heat can slow down the Spurs and get more consistent production from players not named LeBron. They have in years past, but maybe not with this squad.

Can't wait for Game 4!
Good post however
There is no statistical evidence that extra rest or "rust" affects playoff performance. The only thing that matters is which team is better constructed, coached, healthier, and matches up better. Strength or weakness of other teams in your conference is not a factor in a teams' overall quality.
When teams in the West aren't healthy they get slaughtered in the playoffs. We've seen OKC lose westbrook then ibaka in successive years that pretty much destroyed their chances of making the Finals. Miami in the East has lost Bosh and Wade for large parts of the playoffs, in previous years, but still managed to reach the Finals easily. If Miami were in the West, those health issues might have led to an upset
 

Jonm1010

Banned
Spurs got Duncan because of a David Robinson injury, and the rest is history.

OKC was fortunate enough to be in much better lotteries than Cleveland, and extremely lucky to be at #2 instead of #1 in '07, where they probably would've ended up with Oden. Props for Ibaka though.

It takes luck... You're right about the Pelicans. They've positioned themselves pretty well, but they're still not a playoff team. They'll either need to win big in the lottery again or use those pieces around The Unibrow to trade for a star. Tough to do in today's league where stars, even in trades, have tons of influence on where they end up.

Luck is important but they have also made a number of boneheaded acquisitions and poor draft choices. And I can't think of a more lucky organization then the Cavs who are about to get a third chance to build a team around a potential superstar in about a decade. Most teams are lucky to be in that position once a decade or less.

Theoretically this roster could be:
Kyrie Irving
Klay Thompson
Luol Deng
Ryan Anderson or Serge Ibaka
Andre Drummond

Key role player: Danny Green.

In the Kyrie era they could of grabbed someone like Drummond instead of Waiters. They left Ryan Anderson, Serge Ibaka and Nicolas Batum on the board for JJ Hickson. They could of grabbed Klay Thompson in the Kyrie draft and secured their back court. Or go back to the lebron era where they left Al Jefferson, Josh Smith and Jameer Nelson on the draft board for Luke Jackson. I know no team is perfect and had they made some of those moves some of the proceeding moves might not be available(Drummond is likely out if they make the right picks before that draft) but unless something is a sure bet like Lebron or Kyrie they seem to miss almost every time on their selections.

Poor organizational hires and poor coaching hires are likely to blame and Cleveland doesn't seem to learn their lessons(who other then the Cavs hires Mike Brown twice!!!). They got their first piece in Kyrie and since then have fumbled at almost every turn to build a cast around him and find him one or two more elite talents to grow with. Heck look at Danny Green, shooting over 50% from three and 65% from the field in the finals and 50% for the playoffs, who the Cavs just waived after one year out from drafting him.

Cleveland has had more then their fair share of opportunities after James left but they have blown most of them.
 
Right now Bosh's HOF probability is more than 95%

And Ray Allen will be in on his first ballot as well.

Howard left no money on the table. He moved to a state without income tax, and actually pockets a hell of a lot more cash at the end of the day than he did in California.

California State Income Tax: 13.3% (Income over $1 million)
Texas State Income Tax: 0%

He makes approximately $2.6 million more per year by living in Texas.

It's not quite this simple. Players have to pay income taxes for road games, ie every game Dwight plays in Cali he pays the 13.3%. Accordingly, Dwight will save money playing 41 home games in a non-income tax state but it's not $2.6 million.
 

Squalor

Junior Member
When professional athletes are on the road, they pay whatever income tax is higher, their personal in-state income tax or the road income tax.
 
NO shit. What is this guy smoking? Last I checked the damn Florida Marlins/Rays and other low end teams actually made it to the WS. Call me when that happens in the NBA.

OKC made it to the finals, they're a small market, much smaller than Miami
Indiana has made it to multiple, also a small market, with one of the lowest attendance numbers in the league lately (though I guess you could say that's residual effects from Malice at the Palace)
San Antonio has won 4, also a small market

If you're referring to payroll numbers as "low end" none of these teams are in the upper echelon with only OKC at no. 8 in the highest payroll list
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
NO shit. What is this guy smoking? Last I checked the damn Florida Marlins/Rays and other low end teams actually made it to the WS. Call me when that happens in the NBA.

You mean Miami Marlins. Ugh, hate that name. Yeah, I was going to say, baseball is still one of the few sports where "lower tier" teams can still make it all the way.
 

Subitai

Member
I don't think the Thunder, Clippers, Mavs, Warriors, or Spurs would mind Melo going to the Heat. It would terribly suck for the rest of the east though.
 
Howard left no money on the table. He moved to a state without income tax, and actually pockets a hell of a lot more cash at the end of the day than he did in California.

California State Income Tax: 13.3% (Income over $1 million)
Texas State Income Tax: 0%

He makes approximately $2.6 million more per year by living in Texas.

Not sure if it's been mentioned but pro athletes pay taxes on the state they play, not live: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/professional-athletes-big-league-tax-071447565.html

edit: oh look, it was mentioned. oh well.
 
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