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2014 NBA Finals |OT| Some dude guarantees they will win it all.

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I'm not a fan of what Lebron did and how he teamed up a super team, but the idea that if a smart organization gets multiple all stars through drafts and trades it's a legit scenario it's all good. But if players do the same, it's somehow wrong? Odd, that distinction.
 
The past few pages of this thread are depressing. Instead of a discussion of Game 3 and whether the Heat can turn it around, we've got a bunch of insecure haters salivating at the chance to jump on LeBron.

Let's see if we can shed some light on this asinine discussion. It's true that the West is much deeper and tougher than the East and the Heat had a relatively easy road to the Finals this year. While the Spurs were pushed to the limit by an 8 seed that would have home court advantage in the East, the Heat barely broke a sweat in the first round by a bottom-feeder that only made the playoffs because they got out-tanked by other tankers. That pattern mostly continued until The Finals.

Still, just because the East is weak, it doesn't necessarily follow that the Heat wouldn't make it out of the West. The Heat had the 5th best record, but it's clear that they were saving themselves for the playoffs. They dropped 5 of their last 6 games after their seed was secured and rested Wade for 1/3 of the season. During the regular season and on paper, they match up well with the best of the West, sporting a 20-10 record. It's all hypothetical, but on paper, the Spurs are the only West team that you might favor against the Heat in a 7 game series due to their depth, athleticism, and ball movement. The Clippers, Rockets, and Mavericks don't play defense well enough to hang with the Heat. The Grizzlies and Warriors don't play offense well enough (similar to the Bulls out east). The Thunder and Blazers are better balanced, but are both like weaker versions of the Heat at full strength.

Add it up and the Heat are probably one of the top 3 teams in the league, if not top 2. I could see the Thunder beating them at their own game for a game or two, with Westbrook's crazy speed, Durant's crazy accuracy, and Ibaka down low. The Grizzlies might beat them once if they could make it an ugly game. Besides that, the Spurs are the only team out west that would give the Heat a problem. So it really doesn't matter that the Heat play in a weaker conference. There is no statistical evidence that extra rest or "rust" affects playoff performance. The only thing that matters is which team is better constructed, coached, healthier, and matches up better. Strength or weakness of other teams in your conference is not a factor in a teams' overall quality.

With that out of the way, the Spurs have played better so far and are up 2-1 because they are deeper, better coached, and match up better. Compared to last years' Finals, the Spurs are mostly the same, but their role players are better. The Heat, on the other hand, are thinner (no Mike Miller, regression by Battier and Bird Man) and rely on LeBron as much as the Cavs ever did. Bosh is mostly a 3 and D role player. Wade has lost a step and still scores, but not at a sufficient rate. Ray Allen is about the same: clutch shooting and poor defense. Chalmers and Cole have been bad. As stated above, they are still in the top 3 despite these facts because of LeBron. LeBron scores around the basket at an astronomical rate and is well above league average from outside the paint too. This is in spite of the fact he has one the leagues' highest usage rates, which usually hurts efficiency. The Heat succeed based upon LeBron's brilliance, hot stretches by Wade, great athleticism, and clutch shooting by LeBron, Bosh, Allen, and Rashard Lewis.

Those strengths have been enough to cover for their weaknesses up until the Finals, but thus far, it hasn't worked against the Spurs. Their athleticism and ball movement is wearing down the Heat. LeBron has done all he can, but the Heat have lessened the damage somewhat with Kawahi's defense. The rest of the series will be about whether the Heat can slow down the Spurs and get more consistent production from players not named LeBron. They have in years past, but maybe not with this squad.

Can't wait for Game 4!

I agree with all of this.

As you said, all of the Spurs players not named Parker or Duncan have stepped their games up. Where Manu was whirling tornado of self-destruction, he's playing like Manu of old who made decent decisions, shot pretty decently and added a couple of circus shots for good measure. Green and Leonard are simply better. Diaw is as consistent as ever. Mills comes in and somehow looks exactly like Tony Parker.

The only place I feel like the Spurs haven't grown is at Center. Tiago has good hands and has been the recipient of some gorgeous passing, but he ain't about shit offensively. The other big guy is also meh. I'd also like to send out an APB for Belinelli. Otherwise, everyone has been so good there's little to complain about.

What I do know is that before the end they'll need Belinelli to not be shit. And they need to watch themselves making these lazy passes. Every game half of their turnovers are straight up lazy passes which turn into fast breaks for LeBron or Dwayne.

I'm not a fan of what Lebron did and how he teamed up a super team, but the idea that if a smart organization gets multiple all stars through drafts and trades it's a legit scenario it's all good. But if players do the same, it's somehow wrong? Odd, that distinction.

I agree. I'll remain bothered as a Cavs fan for a long time to come by the way he did it. But I completely understand why he moved on. Dude wasn't getting any younger, and try as they might, my Cavs couldn't lure the right type of all-start to Cleveland to pair with him. Maybe if he had re-uped, they would have found an all-star to go with him the next year. I guess we'll never know. But basketball isn't really fun when your team is barely worth watching. That's all I know at this point.
 
could you explain the scenes to me?

http://cdn.fansided.com/gif/GOT13.gif[IMG]

Video with dialogue.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcvE-nS159w[/url]

[spoiler]So basically in the gif it shows the dude pushing his wife to his death, and his last words to her were.. there is only one woman I have ever loved..your sister..and pushes her.[/spoiler]

Game of Zones did a parody of this with Phil Jackson and the lack of interest in coaching again especially Melo. That is why Melo might leave because his argument is you coached Jordan to 6, Kobe and Shaq to 3 retired then came out of retirement to win 2 more with Kobe. He almost came back 2 years ago with Dwight,Nash, and Kobe time. Why can't you coach me? That is Melo's argument. That scenes shows it perfectly. IMO.

The Rondo scene just shows a play on the famous phrase "You know nothing Jon Snow."
I loved at Stevens saying "You know nothing Rondo"

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkyy57iMaB0[/url]
 

BadAss2961

Member
Durant, Duncan, and Harden

It honestly sucks that it's "Wade's team" since dropping him would bring a whole lot of depth to the bench and starting lineup

Dirk was a beast in that series and the entire playoffs nearly sweeping everyone. I would also take Terry, Kidd and Chandler over Mo, Delonte, and Varejao anyday.
lol. Durant has a nice, but out of control PG who thinks he's the leader of the team. They've got Ibaka, Bosh is better than him even while shackled in Miami. There isn't much going for them after that. Durant and Westbrook constantly have to score 30 each just to win games.

Spurs are just a smart team that plays a better brand of basketball than everyone else.

Dwight, then Parsons... Really? Especially in the West, LeBron would be sent home before the finals every year on that team.

On Cavs/Mavs... Terry and Mo Williams are comparable -- one is not much better than the other. Jamison was better than either of them. Jason Kidd was just the experienced vet that made a big shot here and there. Chandler i'll give you, but no one thought much of him until after those playoffs. I give Dallas the edge, but the talent isn't that far apart at all... Most importantly, LeBron was the best player in the league. Dirk was not. You'd think he'd be able to make up the difference.
 
Kobe won 2 with Gasoft, crackhead Odom, and a bum named Bynum while Bron has 2 with Wade, Bosh, and Ray Allen. Which team you think it'd be easier to win with?

i like how an all-nba 2nd team big man with a per of 22, a ts% of 61 and had more offensive win shares than kobe himself is considered 'soft'
 
Kobe basically won all those games and chips by himself

phil let him do all the speeches in the locker room and said, "yeah what kobe said"
 
Why are gifs of huge ass spoilers of TV shows being posted here. I've read the books so I really don't give a shit, but if I was a show watcher who was behind this season and saw that outside of the Game of Thrones OT I'd be fucking pissed.
 

VoxPop

Member
lol. Durant has a nice, but out of control PG who thinks he's the leader of the team. They've got Ibaka, Bosh is better than him even while shackled in Miami. There isn't much going for them after that. Durant and Westbrook constantly have to score 30 each just to win games.

Spurs are just a smart team that plays a better brand of basketball than everyone else.

Dwight, then Parsons... Really? Especially in the West, LeBron would be sent home before the finals every year on that team.

On Cavs/Mavs... Terry and Mo Williams are comparable -- one is not much better than the other. Jamison was better than either of them. Jason Kidd was just the experienced vet that made a big shot here and there. Chandler i'll give you, but no one thought much of him until after those playoffs. I give Dallas the edge, but the talent isn't that far apart at all... Most importantly, LeBron was the best player in the league. Dirk was not. You'd think he'd be able to make up the difference.

LeBron's team is pretty top heavy. Wade with bum knees and Bosh can take you so far. Definitely sounded like a better team before they all actually started playing. Wade is definitely a waste of a max contract player at this point but he's paid his dues. Look at the rest of the squad.

chalmers
beasley
birdman
jesus
shane battier
norris cole
toney douglas
greg oden
justin hamilton
udonis
james jones
rashard lewis

apart from ray allen who's a glorified 38 year old role player, this team is a huge congregation of misfits. it definitely helps that he has wade and bosh but they've all slowly grown into a team of their own over the past 3 years and as showcased in game 1 of the finals, they cant do anything without lebron apparently

the rockets have a pretty deep team with asik, parsons, lin, beverley, and motiejunas. having a nice rotation of 3 big men is a blessing in this day and age

reggie jackson, thabo, and hell even jeremy lamb are nice upgrades the heat would love to have. hell even perkins is still decent

the spurs fo did a fantastic job building around their big 3 and with the greatest coach in the game this is probably one of their last runs together. i honestly wouldnt mind the spurs winning but yeah fuck that
 
Funny, coming from the guy who has sent me PMs asking to join the new forum.

No need to keep spamming invites on practically every page, carefully orchestrated to be the first post on new pages. We get it. We'll still be here when you guys come crawling back.

Sent the invite to every person who frequented the thread.

As long as I get PMs from people wanting the link I'll keep posting it. There's an ignore option if you're that bothered.
 
So it looks like Carmelo to the Heat is going to happen.

Dat Big 4. Suddenly I'm about to be faced with a choice: Become a Heat fan or stop enjoying basketball. As they're gonna shit on everyone else for a long time to come. :-/
 
So it looks like Carmelo to the Heat is going to happen.

Dat Big 4. Suddenly I'm about to be faced with a choice: Become a Heat fan or stop enjoying basketball. As they're gonna shit on everyone else for a long time to come. :-/

But when melo never passes lebron the ball the heat's record will tank.
 

BadAss2961

Member
LeBron's team is pretty top heavy. Wade with bum knees and Bosh can take you so far. Definitely sounded like a better team before they all actually started playing. Wade is definitely a waste of a max contract player at this point but he's paid his dues. Look at the rest of the squad.

chalmers
beasley
birdman
jesus
shane battier
norris cole
toney douglas
greg oden
justin hamilton
udonis
james jones
rashard lewis

apart from ray allen who's a glorified 38 year old role player, this team is a huge congregation of misfits. it definitely helps that he has wade and bosh but they've all slowly grown into a team of their own over the past 3 years and as showcased in game 1 of the finals, they cant do anything without lebron apparently

the rockets have a pretty deep team with asik, parsons, lin, beverley, and motiejunas. having a nice rotation of 3 big men is a blessing in this day and age

reggie jackson, thabo, and hell even jeremy lamb are nice upgrades the heat would love to have. hell even perkins is still decent

the spurs fo did a fantastic job building around their big 3 and with the greatest coach in the game this is probably one of their last runs together. i honestly wouldnt mind the spurs winning but yeah fuck that
The rotation of bigs is the one advantage Houston has.

Wade and Bosh are given far too little credit. They're two other guys that take over games, make game winners, and have bailed LeBron out on many occasions. Dwight gives you numbers, but he doesn't give you these things that LeBron needs. You can't count on him late in games.

Ray Allen's shot hasn't gone anywhere. Still the most clutch shooter in the league.

Chalmers, Cole, Battier, and even Haslem always seem to come up big when the Heat need them. You can't assume the Rockets role players would be as reliable.

Miami is so deep that they have a guy like Beasley and won't even suit him up. This wouldn't happen anywhere else.
 
Nothing to stop superstars from taking paycuts. But the NBA may veto a Melo to Miami deal. Remember shitheels like Dan Gilbert went ballistic with the idea of CP3 going to LA and campaigned Stern to veto that deal.
 
Nothing to stop superstars from taking paycuts. But the NBA may veto a Melo to Miami deal. Remember shitheels like Dan Gilbert went ballistic with the idea of CP3 going to LA and campaigned Stern to veto that deal.

Well them joining up certainly doesn't do the league at large any favors. At worst, it could start an arms race where 4 or 5 teams have all-stars at every position and every other team from every other market is left no hope to compete for rings before training camp even starts.

That's not good for the sport, for franchises not lucky enough to fill their rosters with bags of all-stars, or for fans stuck with teams that have no real hope of competing.

But hey...nothing to stop players from taking pay cuts. And lord knows LeBron, Dwayne and Chris don't need more money.

Yeah but does lbj want to spend a year of guaranteed failure just for "potential" with melo

Theyr'e *great* friends. So yes. He would.
 
Nothing to stop superstars from taking paycuts. But the NBA may veto a Melo to Miami deal. Remember shitheels like Dan Gilbert went ballistic with the idea of CP3 going to LA and campaigned Stern to veto that deal.

NBA vetoed a trade, I doubt they veto a free agent signing. Last time they did to the Heat was Juwan Howard, but the Heat just didn't meet the salary cap requirements and didn't consider Mourning's salary. No way NBA vetos Melo to Heat. Melo might have a case against the NBA more than CP3 did when his trade got vetoed. CP3 is now NBPA prez he making sure Melo gets what he wants and nobody suffers the fate he had to endure by joining the Clippers.
 

BadAss2961

Member
If Melo goes to Miami, where does it end? Might as well just put everyone on Miami so everybody can win a championship together.
 
10387920_1445056499079051_467888009_n.jpg

I always found this argument idiotic. How many hall of fame players did Bird play with? What about Magic Johnson? Kobe didn't play with a bunch of HoFers but he played with the most dominant big man of that era, and won three rings thanks to it.

I'd rather compare teams and teammates than who went where in free agency. Is Chris Bosh a dominant hall of fame player? Probably not. So the Heat essentially have two great players and one really good one in Bosh. I can think of plenty of NBA championship teams with similar makeup, or better makeup.
 
If Melo goes to Miami, where does it end? Might as well just put everyone on Miami so everybody can win a championship together.

That's the point. Miami "fans" argue that it's good for the game and good for the players. And then they wonder why the rest of us will never place LeBron on the same plane as past champions who didn't join their toughest competition, but instead kicked their collective asses.
 

Zeus Molecules

illegal immigrants are stealing our air
http://cdn.fansided.com/gif/GOT13.gif[IMG]

Video with dialogue.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcvE-nS159w[/url]

[spoiler]So basically in the gif it shows the dude pushing his wife to his death, and his last words to her were.. there is only one woman I have ever loved..your sister..and pushes her.[/spoiler]

Game of Zones did a parody of this with Phil Jackson and the lack of interest in coaching again especially Melo. That is why Melo might leave because his argument is you coached Jordan to 6, Kobe and Shaq to 3 retired then came out of retirement to win 2 more with Kobe. He almost came back 2 years ago with Dwight,Nash, and Kobe time. Why can't you coach me? That is Melo's argument. That scenes shows it perfectly. IMO.

The Rondo scene just shows a play on the famous phrase "You know nothing Jon Snow."
I loved at Stevens saying "You know nothing Rondo"

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkyy57iMaB0[/url][/QUOTE]

Amazing, just amazing..... I have to take time out and binge GoT its becoming to much of a cultural thing not to know wtf is going on. Like breaking bad and the Soprano's

Thanks for explaining
 

Tom Penny

Member
I always found this argument idiotic. How many hall of fame players did Bird play with? What about Magic Johnson? Kobe didn't play with a bunch of HoFers but he played with the most dominant big man of that era, and won three rings thanks to it.

I'd rather compare teams and teammates than who went where in free agency. Is Chris Bosh a dominant hall of fame player? Probably not. So the Heat essentially have two great players and one really good one in Bosh. I can think of plenty of NBA championship teams with similar makeup, or better makeup.

Right now Bosh's HOF probability is more than 95%
 
That's the point. Miami "fans" argue that it's good for the game and good for the players. And then they wonder why the rest of us will never place LeBron on the same plane as past champions who didn't join their toughest competition, but instead kicked their collective asses.

I suspect it will ultimately be very bad for the NBA long term. Good for Heat fans in the short term.

Right now Bosh's HOF probability is more than 95%

LMAO
 

rando14

Member
guaranteed failure? we're talking 5-8 fewer wins before the all star break and a fully evolved offensive behemoth going into the playoffs

Naw implementing a dude as ball-hungry as Melo would require a season to work out all the kinks and chemistry (Same reason Miami couldnt win their first year), I guarantee if Melo somehow lands in south beach they won't win anything his first year there
 
there is kind of some sort of respect you have to give these players wanting to win rings rather than having a huge payday. Bosh, James, Wade are all max players that took a paycut in 2010. If Carmelo joins then you better believe that all 4 will take massive paycuts. This is something CP3, Dwight Howard, Kobe, Griffin, Harden, Durant, Westbrook (OKC could have had a big 3 as well), Rose (who has done nothing since signing his contract), Love, and even my beloved Dirk would never be wiling to do in their primes.
 

fertygo

Member
Jebus lock the contract system already, 5 times ALL-NBA should given guaranteed max or something like that.. make the teaming up option for these pussy player gone.
 
there is kind of some sort of respect you have to give these players wanting to win rings rather than having a huge payday. Bosh, James, Wade are all max players that took a paycut in 2010. If Carmelo joins then you better believe that all 4 will take massive paycuts. This is something CP3, Dwight Howard, Kobe, Griffin, Harden, Durant, Westbrook (OKC could have had a big 3 as well), Rose (who has done nothing since signing his contract), Love, and even my beloved Dirk would never be wiling to do in their primes.

Rumor has it CP3 would have left if Clippers kept Vinny Del Negro or didn't get Doc Rivers. Thus would have left money on the table. Houston was favored to get him.
Dwight Howard left money on the table from the Lakers to try to win "now" with Houston.
Kobe - Superstar. Right about this. But he wanted to get traded from the Lakers for the lack of effort when trying to compete for a championship by the management. Jerry Buss convinced him to stay.
Dirk Nowitzki was willing to take a paycut for a superstar player. He didn't. He played great PGs.
Griffin, Harden, Durant, Westbrook, and Rose ..time will tell. These guys still can be classified as merely All-Stars and no superstars. Some of them not winning titles won't surprise me. Harden hasn't gotten the Rockets out of the first round. He might be the next T-Mac for the Rockets. Yes, he made the finals but he didn't show up plus it was with OKC. Durant might ended up with a career accolades like Allen Iverson.
DRose's brother was mad at the Bulls organization for not getting his bro some help to compete with teams like the Heat or Pacers.
 
Rumor has it CP3 would have left if Clippers kept Vinny Del Negro or didn't get Doc Rivers. Thus would have left money on the table. Houston was favored to get him.
Dwight Howard left money on the table from the Lakers to try to win "now" with Houston.
Kobe - Superstar. Right about this. But he wanted to get traded from the Lakers for the lack of effort when trying to compete for a championship by the management. Jerry Buss convinced him to stay.
Dirk Nowitzki was willing to take a paycut for a superstar player. He didn't. He played great PGs.
Griffin, Harden, Durant, Westbrook, and Rose ..time will tell. These guys still can be classified as merely All-Stars and no superstars. Some of them not winning titles won't surprise me. Harden hasn't gotten the Rockets out of the first round. He might be the next T-Mac for the Rockets. Yes, he made the finals but he didn't show up plus it was with OKC. Durant might ended up with a career accolades like Allen Iverson.
DRose's brother was mad at the Bulls organization for not getting his bro some help to compete with teams like the Heat or Pacers.

Yes CP3 would have and Howard left money on the table but they still would want maximum amount the team they were going to was able to offer. Bosh, Wade, and Lebron left money on the table AND took paycuts in general. Lebron James is the 9th highest paid player this year. Wade is making even less than him.
 
If anyone would have a problem with superstars taking major pay cuts , it would be the players union, not the owners. If this becomes a trend that's great for the owners. More money for them to pocket.

What exactly is the scenario by which Melo joins the Heat? Does it require them ditching Wade? Cause I don't see that happening?
 

fertygo

Member
Yes CP3 would have and Howard left money on the table but they still would want maximum amount the team they were going to was able to offer. Bosh, Wade, and Lebron left money on the table AND took paycuts in general. Lebron James is the 9th highest paid player this year. Wade is making even less than him.

Miami stars don't sacrificing shit with this stuff, its like saying Amazon cutting profit for the consumers with their deals.

Its a frigging monopoly, the miami stars will get more and more money from endorsement with being the biggest headline in basketball and surefire to win, what a bullshit.
 
If anyone would have a problem with superstars taking major pay cuts , it would be the players union, not the owners. If this becomes a trend that's great for the owners. More money for them to pocket.

What exactly is the scenario by which Melo joins the Heat? Does it require them ditching Wade? Cause I don't see that happening?
It's great for 3-4 owners and terrible for the rest.
 
If anyone would have a problem with superstars taking major pay cuts , it would be the players union, not the owners. If this becomes a trend that's great for the owners. More money for them to pocket.

What exactly is the scenario by which Melo joins the Heat? Does it require them ditching Wade? Cause I don't see that happening?

Big 4 can take appropriate paycuts in order for this to work but the bench.. Remember that 10-11 season bench expect something much worse in terms of talent.
 
It's great for 3-4 owners and terrible for the rest.

Like I said, if it starts a trend where players start trying to emulate the heat and team up to take less money they will all love it. Ultimately there ain't shit they can do anyway. The Chris Paul thing was an outlier because the owners collectively owned the Hornets, so they had a right to say "woah hold up" and stop that trade. They have zero say in what a free agent wants to do and if they try and bitch about it they will just make themselves look like fools (which means expect Dan Gilbert to bitch about it)
 
LeBron got me into basketball as a kid, but if the Heat get Melo pretty sure I'm done. I mean the NBA won't be any fun at all if that happens, no team can match up against that.
 

BadAss2961

Member
I always found this argument idiotic. How many hall of fame players did Bird play with? What about Magic Johnson? Kobe didn't play with a bunch of HoFers but he played with the most dominant big man of that era, and won three rings thanks to it.

I'd rather compare teams and teammates than who went where in free agency. Is Chris Bosh a dominant hall of fame player? Probably not. So the Heat essentially have two great players and one really good one in Bosh. I can think of plenty of NBA championship teams with similar makeup, or better makeup.
Bosh has made 9 straight all star appearances. The team has a combined 41 all star appearances.

The Heat have 4 HOFers. 2 of them are still in their prime, 1 is still a arguably a top 10 player, and the other might be the greatest shooter ever.

lol.
Where are you all getting the Carmelo to Miami stuff from?

Stephen A's wishlist.
 
Like I said, if it starts a trend where players start trying to emulate the heat and team up to take less money they will all love it. Ultimately there ain't shit they can do anyway. The Chris Paul thing was an outlier because the owners collectively owned the Hornets, so they had a right to say "woah hold up" and stop that trade. They have zero say in what a free agent wants to do and if they try and bitch about it they will just make themselves look like fools (which means expect Dan Gilbert to bitch about it)
You said its great for owners, not that they can't do anything about it. It is indisputably bad for the vast majority of owners.
 
Where are you all getting the Carmelo to Miami stuff from?

Small speculations made this week, Stephen A Smith explained the possibilities of both wanting to play together now ESPN has other sources that confirm that Heat are eyeing Melo (Windhorst, who covers the Heat and Lebron and Marc Stein). Pat Riley will get it done like he always does.

Sources told ESPN.com that Heat officials and the team's leading players have already started to explore their options for creating sufficient financial flexibility to make an ambitious run at adding New York Knicks scoring machine Carmelo Anthony this summer in free agency.
 
You said its great for owners, not that they can't do anything about it. It is indisputably bad for the vast majority of owners.

Why? None of those owners have a shot at Melo or any other star player via free agency anyway? What do the Bucks or Cavs care if he's making the max in NY or making a little bit less than the max in Miami or Chicago?
 
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