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[Dee Dah Dave]

The reality is that the vast majority of the once 10 million plus Halo audience no longer want's to play classic Halo and has since moved on to faster paced games like Call Of Duty.

This is the dillema Microsoft and 343 are facing and is the reason they are trying to find a new balance of gameplay that suits everyone. It's a tall order to pull off but it's really their only option if they want their biggest IP to survive.

10 million plus people don't want to play classic Halo anymore. That's the reality.

 

[JonCha]

All I'm going to say is this: if you're explaining, you're losing.

 

[ebullientprism]

I dunno. On one hand they seem to believe that sprint belongs in the sandbox but on the other hand they keep trying to nerf it in every way possible. It seems like schizophrenic design. Just remove it if you feel it needs so many checks and balances to be palatable to the fanbase.

Personally I would rather not have it there.

But then again I can imagine in this fps climate selling an fps and without it is difficult. Looks at all the idiotic reviews that mentioned movement in old halos as archaic in the MCC.

Fucked if they do. Fucked if they don't.

Sucks to be 343 right now I guess.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

The reality is that the vast majority of the once 10 million plus Halo audience no longer want's to play classic Halo and has sinced moved on to faster paced games like Call Of Duty.

This is the dillema Microsoft and 343 are facing and is the reason they are trying to find a new balance of gameplay that suits everyone. It's a tall order to pull off but it's really their only option if they want their biggest IP to survive.

10 million plus people don't want to play classic Halo anymore. That's the reality.

Yyyyyyup.

SWAT is the answer. Frankie needs to grow are set and ensure SWAT gets more prominence.

 

[Blue Ninja]

It looks cooler.

Only problem I have with it is that they're saying "it's not ADS", but then they're not treating it as such. It's on the left trigger in the standard gamepad layout, apparently. I hope we can get a standard classic Halo layout in there, but with all the buttons they're adding I'm not sure anymore.

 

[Diprosalic]

Is this seriously something we're complaining about now? Too many medals? Come on...

oh fucking yes i complain about that. medals used to be something you earned, you looked at your medals after a game or looked at your friends and you were pleased if you got a few of them. It was a nice feeling when the announcer told you that you got a medal. Now we get a medal for a kill, for every single one, why? The average medal per kill is actually > 2. Everybody needs to be a winner and get his reward, don't let anybody go 30 seconds without getting rewarded for being special.

There are 56 Medals in Halo 3 and more than 200 in Halo 4, you get one for everything you do. It's a small thing that highlights 343i design philosophy.

 

[Exploratory]

Wow. The negativity was so quick. Am I the only one reading this with nods of agreement?

Yes. I'm playing Halo 2 right now and the lack of sprint is great.

 

[Naked Lunch]

The longer TTK, high jumps, and guns/grenades/melee emphasis will always make Halo, Halo. COD doesnt have these elements. Until those elements change - its Halo. After H4, you could see that the strafe boost fit Halo so well that it needed to be added to normal gameplay - and they did that.

Its really lose lose for 343 with the internets it seems - damned if you do, damned if you dont. I kinda like that they are trying to evolve the series without losing its core. If I saw 1 second kills, no descope ADS, and AI controlled killstreaks - I would understand the outrage. Good thing H5 doesnt have those things.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Did you not read your post claiming that a human was able to run and therefore should be able to in a video game? Humans can also swim the front stroke - why isn't that in Halo yet?

If you can't see the stupidity of your arguments, I see not point in trying to discuss it with you.

Awesome, you've done it again and are being obtuse to boot.

 

[Uiki]

To be fair CS:GO now has 2 ADS weapons. And they do provide you with an advantage on long range over the other non ADS weapons.

They were always there...

 

[gollumsluvslave]

When Halo is working well there is structure and flow to the combat, with a unique back-and-forth, move / counter-move experience that provides depth and opportunities to enhance the skill gap between players. That’s what we’ve been focusing on for Halo 5 MP.

I think that is the most promising quote from Josh's post; Halo to me has always been about that flow /counter flow, whether it was the singleplayer battles with Elites or multiplayer, you always had choices that could turn the tide of an encounter.

That quote doesnot sound to me like they are chasing COD,so I will give 343 the benefit of the doubt on this one for now. That said I haven't experience the mess that is MCC so I'm maybe being a bit naive

 

[julesodies]

my biggest complaint , why you gotta block the screen ??

This looks more like a nerf of the scope than copying the CoD style scope. And of course all the scope fanboys cry when their fav OP weapon gets nerfed .

 

[op_ivy]

of all the mis-steps with halo 4's multiplayer sprint was the least offensive to what made halo halo. the changes 343 is making with halo 5 sound encouraging as hell.

 

[Anfony O]

I'm sure there are just as many people who are playing MCC and wanting sprint because it feels too slow now. Just because a vocal minority are saying they don't want it, doesn't necessarily ring true for everyone.
The aiming reticle and so called ADS is a silly argument because you aren't even looking at the rest of the screen when you are zoomed in. You are looking at what you have zoomed in on.

Just because i don't need my peripheral vision to focus mean i should be ok with glaucoma.

 

[Sojgat]

The reality is that the vast majority of the once 10 million plus Halo audience no longer want's to play classic Halo and has since moved on to faster paced games like Call Of Duty.

This is the dillema Microsoft and 343 are facing and is the reason they are trying to find a new balance of gameplay that suits everyone. It's a tall order to pull off but it's really their only option if they want their biggest IP to survive.

10 million plus people don't want to play classic Halo anymore. That's the reality.

Unfounded assumptions. This "reality" has yet to be tested, since there hasn't been a new classic Halo MP released since 2007.

Well, maybe we could count Halo 2 anniversary, if it wasn't mostly impossible to play at launch.

 

[MMaRsu]

I feel if 343i changed their name to 'Bung1e', alot of these haters would start thinking better off them. I'm not sure, but it just feels like people actually just straight hate 343i and not the Halo games.

Thanks 343i

Not really, Bungie hasnt made a great game since Halo 3 and ODST.

I havent played Halo 4 but what I see on offer is no Halo.

 

[abadguy]

Maybe they complain because Halo 4 sucked complete ass and the population fell off of Mount Everest and the community told 343 loud and clear that their vision of Halo was complete and utter shit, yet here we are with Halo 5?

And yet most of the shit that fucked up Halo 4 MP, Loadouts/unequal starts, random weapon drops,killstreaks, perks/armor abilities, clearly aren't present in this game from what they have shown. So obviously they have been listening, or else i would guess all that shit would still be in it. It's just that they dared to make Halo faster and give more traversal options. They dared to add new things to the sandbox! It's not like Bungie ever did that, with vehicle jacking in Halo 2 or adding equipment to Halo 3, amirite?

The longer TTK, high jumps, and guns/grenades/melee emphasis will always make Halo, Halo. COD doesnt have these elements. Until those elements change - its Halo. After H4, you could see that the strafe boost fit Halo so well that it needed to be added to normal gameplay - and they did that.

Its really lose lose for 343 with the internets it seems - damned if you do, damned if you dont. I kinda like that they are trying to evolve the series without losing its core. If I saw 1 second kills, no descope ADS, and AI controlled killstreaks - I would understand the outrage. Good thing H5 doesnt have those things.

.

 

[mbmonk]

I'm sure there are just as many people who are playing MCC and wanting sprint because it feels too slow now. Just because a vocal minority are saying they don't want it, doesn't necessarily ring true for everyone.
The aiming reticle and so called ADS is a silly argument because you aren't even looking at the rest of the screen when you are zoomed in. You are looking at what you have zoomed in on.

Coming from COD, I was frustrated at first going at the slow pace of H2A, but I have adjusted and now I am hooked. I appreciate the difference in the gameplay experience H2A brings. Now I understand a lot of the criticisms that Halo fans are making. And I am starting to agree with them.

COD already is in that space. I doubt 343i can make a better COD experience than the Activision's studios. The additions of Exo abilities in H5 makes is appear to copy COD. I could imagine both games ( H5 & AW) having a fairly similar experience when it comes to movement & traversal when playing. But time will tell.

 

[scitek]

Saying "copying Call of Duty" is easy for the ones who can't put together an actual argument.

Well, it's basically what they're doing. The thing is, it doesn't inherently mean it'll negatively affect the gameplay, despite popular belief.

 

[Diablohead]

I bet that the BR is a 4 shot kill like in H2A MP, was it also 4 shot in Halo 4 after the balance update?

 

[GrizzNKev]

Come on, Josh and 343i. The need to create an extensive "immersion" justification for your inherently non-immersive multiplayer gameplay misses the mark entirely. First of all, you made no attempt to tell anyone why the inclusion of these mechanics make the game better - only that they adhere to your vision and allow more options for movement. In case you didn't realize, this isn't automatically a good thing. Giving the player more ways to escape from combat de-emphasizes the quality and enjoyment of the combat. I can't rerecall any time the population of Halo players reacted well to their opponents who make the mistake of engaging in combat without the right skill or tools having the ability to run away without being punished. The fact that you need to tell us that you think it's a good idea is not going to change the fact that its inclusion in the game damages the core of Halo multiplayer. Second, I have a hard time buying that this justification isn't silently backed up by the obvious truth that many of these gameplay elements were considered due to their popularity in other games. We all know why what's in Halo 4 is there, and we know that you didn't suddenly stop looking at other big first person shooters for inspiration.

If you need any kind of guidance for what people are really looking for in Halo, examine how your fans reacted to Halo 2 Anniversary's announcement, and the general positivity that was generated across all the major Halo communities as well as from the pro players in regard to the existence and properties of H2A multiplayer. It's something that everyone loved with a few small tweaks to make it fresh. There's absolutely no reason why this can't define a new numbered Halo title, there is no rule telling you that only slight changes to an old yet highly successful formula means you somehow haven't gone far enough with making changes to a full sequel. Compare those reactions to the reactions to Halo 5, and reassess your priorities. It is absolutely obvious what the players want, and until you take the L and learn from what H2A is doing right, everyone is going to keep railing against you and responding negatively.

If you have to write something like this to convince your potential customers that you're not fucking up, you're fucking up. Open your ears and have a conversation for once, instead of continuing to tell us that you know what's best while all the fans and pro players try to explain to you why we don't want what you're selling.

 

[Akai__]

343i adding lore to the MP aspect of Halo is the worst thing that happened, in my opinion...

And yet most of the shit that fucked up Halo 4 MP, Loadouts/unequal starts, random weapon drops,killstreaks, perks/armor abilities, clearly aren't present in this game from what they have shown. So obviously they have been listening, or else i would guess all that shit would still be in it. It's just that they dared to make Halo faster and give more traversal options. They dared to add new things to the sandbox! It's not like Bungie ever did that, with vehicle jacking in Halo 2 or adding equipment to Halo 3, amirite?

Sprint doesn't make the game faster, though. Maps are designed arround sprint, which make them by design larger. Also, people play like jerks and run away all the time with Sprint. Thruster pack will also be used to get back into cover and hide from the battle and not only during battles. Watching those Halo 5 gameplay videos from

Spoiler

biased

pro players and some well known community members doesn't do anything. They don't represent the average

Spoiler

smart

Halo player.

I don't know if jacking vehicles is the best example here. The normal Halo match doesn't have vehicles and it works pretty well as countering vehicles. But you are right for equipment. That was some serious bullshit, which made the standard Halo 3 maps play like garbage. Bungie sadly introduced the AA's and that is basically an expansion of equipments.

Spoiler

I was surprised there wasn't an AA where you could throw power drains arround the map. lol

 

[PanicFreak]

Coming from COD, I was frustrated at first going at the slow pace of H2A, but I have adjusted and now I am hooked. I appreciate the difference in the gameplay experience H2A brings. Now I understand a lot of the criticisms that Halo fans are making. And I am starting to agree with them.

COD already is in that space. I doubt 343i can make a better COD experience than the Activision's studios. The additions of Exo abilities in H5 makes is appear to copy COD. I could imagine both games ( H5 & AW) having a fairly similar experience when it comes to movement & traversal when playing. But time will tell.

They aren't trying to make a better CoD, they are trying to make a better Halo. Halo is about guns/grenade/melee. However, there was an unspoken element to the game that really harkens back to old-school FPS gaming, map control. Halo 4 sucked because 343i made the choice to eliminate that fourth element that is core to the Halo experience.

 

[TCKaos]

343i is either blind, deaf or delusional.

Like GrizzNKev said, look at the overwhelmingly positive response to H2A's announcement. It's not just nostalgia, it was a return to form with clear, decisive gameplay designs that didn't compromise the integrity of the game's original gameplay focus while adding new and interesting elements.

Then look at Halo 5. How could you possibly see the two and want the latter?

I don't understand. I just don't fucking understand.

Maybe I wouldn't care so much if you had the MCC actually worked, because then I'd have Halo/2/3/4/2A to fall back on, giving you some creative freedom, but you fucked that up and the population is dead. You lost your chance to have some creative freedom and destroyed all of the goodwill you had left in doing so.

 

[mbmonk]

They aren't trying to make a better CoD, they are trying to make a better Halo. Halo is about guns/grenade/melee. However, there was an unspoken element to the game that really harkens back to old-school FPS gaming, map control. Halo 4 sucked because 343i made the choice to eliminate that fourth element that is core to the Halo experience.

Yea. That seems to be a big part of H2A. That makes sense about H4. Thanks.

Would you agree that they are copying COD movement? The abilites seem like a carbon copy to me.

I just don't know if they can really set the gameplay experience of H5 apart from the COD series when they are copying large parts of the systems of those games. With 343's track record, it's hard for me to believe they are going to pull it off.

Maybe H5 will be a great Halo game and a very distinct and different experience from the COD games ( AW or the next release of the series next Nov. ). I hope so.

 

[The Lamonster]

Copy Call of Duty if old.

Wow OP. Way to instantly dismiss the huge writeup from 343 you just posted.

Good job encouraging heathy discussion. /s

 

[JaggedSac]

Translation: "We want Call of Duty sales"

They're gonna copy Call of Duty anyway.

Wouldn't they be copying Titanfall with these increased mobility options? Since it came out well before AW?


Games looks fun as fuck based on the videos that went around. Also, how are the changes making things more accessible? Seems to me the more actions that a player can execute will increase the likelihood of the skill gap getting larger.

 

[tmac456]

my biggest complaint , why you gotta block the screen ??

lol terrible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ8S2CwuJ50

wow. watching that made me both angry and sad

 

[JaggedSac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ8S2CwuJ50

They should have made the video with Titanfall, you know, the game that came out 7 or 8 months ago and we knew about how it played 15 or 16 months ago.

 

[BigEvilTurtle]

Can I still us the right-stick for scope? That's mostly all I care about to be honest.

 

[Sai]

Wow OP. Way to instantly dismiss the huge writeup from 343 you just posted.

Good job encouraging heathy discussion. /s

Seriously. :/

Admittedly, immersion and consistency aren't exactly ideal reasons to justify sprint's implementation. Expanding upon how sprint serves to bolster offensive and defensive options would have served him much better.

Folks would still be clamoring on about copying CoD though. :/ It's clear that it's not just the CoD crowd that desires to see the Master Chief and the rest of the Spartans bookin' it; I'm not the only one missing sprint when playing even H2:A.

Can I still us the right-stick for scope? That's mostly all I care about to be honest.

I think there was a video posted earlier that showed button configurations that allow you to zoom 'n such in the old manner.

 

[Akai__]

Can I still us the right-stick for scope? That's mostly all I care about to be honest.

Depends on which control scheme you prefer. They are most likely changing or adding control schemes, but I guess the standard control scheme won't support zoom on RS in the Beta.

 

[mbmonk]

The inclusion of mantling/clambering into H5 seems to me to possibly be a assistance to new players to help them make tough jumps or to minimize the effect of a poorly timed jump.

There are jumps in H2A that if you miss you fall to your death. Mantling might reduce the risk / reward factor in those jumps.

 

[Bsigg12]

Can I still us the right-stick for scope? That's mostly all I care about to be honest.

Yea, Stinkles a while back said he was using RS for zoom.

 

[Sai]

The inclusion of mantling/clambering into H5 seems to me to possibly be a assistance to new players to help them make tough jumps or to minimize the effect of a poorly timed jump.


There are jumps in H2A that if you miss you fall to your death. Mantling might reduce the risk / reward factor in those jumps.

Yep, clambering is probably the most hurtful addition to Halo 5. It may make sense from a lore perspective, but skilled crouch jumps are a important part of Halo's multiplayer that will be completely lost with it's inclusion.

All the complaints should be going towards that, rather than sprint.

In the end, I hope they make all of these Spartan Abilities modular/optional, and keep on expanding upon Forge.

 

[RebornYeti]

I have to admit, the first couple games I played in H2A, I tried to Sprint. Its almost embedded in my mind now.

So I'm not that upset that it's in Halo 5. Just remove the "fake" ADS and we're good, 343.

 

[BokehKing]

The longer TTK, high jumps, and guns/grenades/melee emphasis will always make Halo, Halo. COD doesnt have these elements. Until those elements change - its Halo. After H4, you could see that the strafe boost fit Halo so well that it needed to be added to normal gameplay - and they did that.

Its really lose lose for 343 with the internets it seems - damned if you do, damned if you dont. I kinda like that they are trying to evolve the series without losing its core. If I saw 1 second kills, no descope ADS, and AI controlled killstreaks - I would understand the outrage. Good thing H5 doesnt have those things.

The problem is the majority of the halo fan base moved on to games that have ads and sprint, the original fanbase has to understand that, because your sales are not enough to turn a profit. Just look at some people who have MCC, when and if they get into a match they are like 'why can't I sprint'
It's very jarring

 

[mbmonk]

There is a really great relationship between the radar & map designs in H2A. I have trouble putting it into words, but it's related to the radar showing the opponents relative vertical position ( above or below ) that when combined with map knowledge helps players know where the opponent is almost exactly. But there are some jumps in the map that can offset the player that is using the radar heavily and allows an experienced player who can pull off the jumps to surprise the opponent who is relying on the radar. I hope that makes sense. It's a tough relationship for me to put into exact terms. But I thinks it's a beautiful relationship that Bungie really understood & rewarded player who grasped & utilized it.

Yep, clambering is probably the most hurtful addition to Halo 5. It may make sense from a lore perspective, but skilled crouch jumps are a important part of Halo's multiplayer that will be completely lost with it's inclusion.

The jumps and the ability to pull them off really separate new players from experience ones, but it's gives a layer of depth for the new players to attain & harness once they do understand it and can execute it. I think this rather long winded & wandering video by BDobbinsFTW helped me understand the relationship between the depth of gameplay and the skill gap it creates between new players & experienced players.

 

[zma1013]

Return Halo to a game about map and weapon control and remove stuff like random power weapon call ins from the sky and no jetpacks and better map design and I'll be happy i think.

 

[Akai__]

In an ideal world, we would have two version of Halo 5 MP.

One with all these abilities/features and larger maps and another with actually small maps and without all these abilities/features.

Never going to happen, but it's nice to want things.

 

[Gnome Scat]

Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint.

Just because it's in other games doesn't mean it has to be in Halo. Same goes for perks, descope, and loadouts, which at least you guys realized.

 

[Sai]

Return Halo to a game about map and weapon control and remove stuff like random power weapon call ins from the sky and no jetpacks and better map design and I'll be happy i think.

The weapon spawn timers and call outs are a part of map control that's common in the competitive scene; the game's just doing it for you now along with the Spartan chatter.

So, at least for the former, they're trying to do a better job of that. Remains to be seen if it will all meld nicely with proper map design.

Never going to happen, but it's nice to want things.

Which is why I insist that these Spartan Abilities should be optional, and hope that they further expand upon Forge.

It's not ideal, but it will help.

 

[abadguy]

They should have made the video with Titanfall, you know, the game that came out 7 or 8 months ago and we knew about how it played 15 or 16 months ago.

That's what makes that vid so damned funny. You can tell the one that made it didn't really think it through too well, or never played Titanfall.

Return Halo to a game about map and weapon control and remove stuff like random power weapon call ins from the sky and no jetpacks and better map design and I'll be happy i think.

Well you're in luck, because H5 seems to have done just that.

 

[buddha0991]

That's what makes that vid so damned funny. You can tell the one that made it didn't really think it through to well, or never played Titanfall.

but have they SEEN Titanfall?

 

[bchamba]

I'm glad 343 looks at these forums. Now when I say I will not buy halo 5 advanced titanfall and will stick with mcc I know they'll see it.

 

[Nibel]

I appreciate him taking the time for this writeup and can understand their decisions, but that doesn't change the fact that they are taking away Halo's unique gameplay with those tweaks.

I mean the multiplayer beta video looked like an alright FPS game, but it didn't feel Halo to me outside from the art design.

 

[Akai__]

Which is why I insist that these Spartan Abilities should be optional, and hope that they further expand upon Forge.

It's not ideal, but it will help.

You couldn't turn off Sprint in Halo 4 either, without a modded gametype. 343i didn't know what options are in Halo 4, I hope they learned it this time.

I also expect Forge to get a even better upgrade. It's pretty neat in the MCC, but still missing Covenant and color coded pieces in general.

 

[Hawkeye 131]

Lol, after MCC I don't think 343i can be trusted to release a fully functional game let alone properly implement sprint functionality again. Who cares what they think about player movement when they can't even release a working game? Fuck 343i, they've run my favourite franchise right into the ground.

 

[abadguy]

Lol, after MCC I don't think 343i can be trusted to release a fully functional game let alone properly implement sprint functionality again. Who cares what they think about player movement when they can't even release a working game? Fuck 343i, they've run my favourite franchise right into the ground.

Funny they seemed to manage to release a fully functional game before MCC came out.

 

[soulassssns]

Lol, after MCC I don't think 343i can be trusted to release a fully functional game let alone properly implement sprint functionality again. Who cares what they think about player movement when they can't even release a working game? Fuck 343i, they've run my favourite franchise right into the ground.

I understand the frustration but there is no need to be so overly dramatic.