999 SPOILERS Discussion Thread
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XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
I had the complete opposite reaction after that ending. If people couldn't already tell. ;PKagari said:
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Such a creepy song.Korigama said:
Shadow Red
Member
Though creepy...I find it hard to stop listening to it.Korigama said:
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
I love listening to creepy songs from my favorite VNs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAupQUUglkU <3
I'm reading through the thread to make sure I don't ask stupid questions.
The goddamn paradox is burning my brain though. I don't understand why Present!Akane faded in the Incinerator room. I think Ace was already in the boot of the jeep though, right?
Also I can't believe the final goddamn thing was a Sudoku puzzle. I know it fit with the 9 thing, but...
The goddamn paradox is burning my brain though. I don't understand why Present!Akane faded in the Incinerator room. I think Ace was already in the boot of the jeep though, right?
Also I can't believe the final goddamn thing was a Sudoku puzzle. I know it fit with the 9 thing, but...
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Try a different browser.Jintor said:
This is a really awesome, cool, atmospheric and interesting game.
It's interesting because of the exciting setting, unique gameplay format, the cool characters and the mystery about who is behind the Nonary Game and why.
So why did they have the add an entire level of timeline/future/realities stuff that seems to come in right at the end of every JRPG / adventure game? Why couldn't they have made it a story about 9 people trapped in the Nonary Game, as you go along you find out more about each person and why they are there, then they escape and find out who was behind it all and then everything works out?
Basically, why is this not the case - and instead we're left wondering exactly what the hell is going on and don't actually know what timeline/future/reality we are in and if the people you have been in the Nonary Game with actually exist? And what you were doing is a copy of what happened 9 years before or is in someone's mind - or is it?
I mean, call me a simpleton (hey, I make simple games
) but I really do like mystery stories when everything is legitimately answered at the end!
It's interesting because of the exciting setting, unique gameplay format, the cool characters and the mystery about who is behind the Nonary Game and why.
So why did they have the add an entire level of timeline/future/realities stuff that seems to come in right at the end of every JRPG / adventure game? Why couldn't they have made it a story about 9 people trapped in the Nonary Game, as you go along you find out more about each person and why they are there, then they escape and find out who was behind it all and then everything works out?
Basically, why is this not the case - and instead we're left wondering exactly what the hell is going on and don't actually know what timeline/future/reality we are in and if the people you have been in the Nonary Game with actually exist? And what you were doing is a copy of what happened 9 years before or is in someone's mind - or is it?
I mean, call me a simpleton (hey, I make simple games
) but I really do like mystery stories when everything is legitimately answered at the end!Because the multiple reality thing addresses the multiple playthrough aspect and the meaning behind the use of the DS. I am normally in your camp but 999 pulls it off exceptionally well.
Also, the writer thinks exactly backwards to you - I believe he wrote the 'twist' first and extrapolated backwards to get to where he wanted to go.
There's only a few real things left unanswered at the end, the major one being freaking Alice as far as I recall.
Also, the writer thinks exactly backwards to you - I believe he wrote the 'twist' first and extrapolated backwards to get to where he wanted to go.
There's only a few real things left unanswered at the end, the major one being freaking Alice as far as I recall.
HalfbrickPhil said:
the true ending is the only ending. every other endings were possibilities that could have happened if junpei had chosen poorly. the true ending is the only one that counts otherwise there would be a time paradox. so what you're doing is the recreation of what someone saw nine years ago.
timetokill
Banned
HalfbrickPhil said:
Man, normally I would be totally with you on this. But what I loved about this game was they actually did explain most everything, and the things that weren't could be figured out or explained in a legitimate fashion. What they didn't resort to, thank god, was something entirely mystical with no backing whatsoever, which is what I was afraid of.
I think that this story, this particular one, was told expertly and really took advantage of the game structure. You actually to find out more about each character in each playthrough, and only in the true ending do they really escape -- and it's really the only true timeline. The fact that you get these other perspectives on things via playing the game, and that the concept itself is communicated through the gameplay and the rotating the DS, etc, is genius.
I guess in short, I'd normally agree with you in cases where I feel stuff isn't really explained well. (It's one of the reasons I actually prefer, for example, the western remake of The Ring as compared to Ringu). But this game really pulled it off, in my opinion.
AniHawk said:
True, but this wasn't communicated to the player until the very end of several repeat playthroughs. I deliberately didn't look at a guide and wanted to immerse myself in the mystery, and I received the coffin ending first. After several moments of complete confusion, I read up on it to learn that you need to play through multiple times (even though most of those times are pointless) and that I would have to play through the same way once again after "requiring" to play the safe ending to get the actual true ending.
So then that led me to sitting through minute after minute of text flying by, and for a game that made so much impact on my very first playthrough for the pacing and buoldup of suspense - how could they possible think skipping text and replaying the same sections over multiple times would be good for the pacing and make me care more about finding out what the explanation was? By the time I finally got to it, I cared significantly less than when I first got the coffin ending. I was literally bouncing off the walls excited to see what would happen next. And then, what happened next was I had to start the game over from the beginning for some reason.
My point - there was no need for multiple ending in the first place. They could have the true ending the only ending, with slight differences depending on which path you chose. That would make for a much tighter, better paced game. The multiple ending were unnecessary - and for an average consumer, completely dumbfounding.
...I disagree. Fast-forward absolutely blitzes through the text, with the only stupid decision there being to make you replay puzzle rooms you already completed - although many of them are super easy once you already know the answers. The new information that comes out of every path is all part of the jigsaw puzzle plot that is needed to complete the 'true path', and really feels like a gradual teasing out of the entire inherent mystery of the Nonary Game.
The real reason for the need for multiple endings though (Especially the required Safe ending) is, in my opinion, the 'twist' of the entire story - that you aren't some omnipresent narrator, you're actually Young!Akane viewing the events of the game and its seperate storylines via morphogenetic fields from the past. Without having gone through at least one other path, the impact of this revelation is lost, and with it the central player punch of the story.
I do think that the game could have communicated better how exactly you were changing your path by going through the different doors; I only really worked it out in retrospect. It helps that for the most part every decision you take is an important one, with very few exceptions, but the game is long enough that until you start your fast-forward playthroughs you probably won't remember it.
The real reason for the need for multiple endings though (Especially the required Safe ending) is, in my opinion, the 'twist' of the entire story - that you aren't some omnipresent narrator, you're actually Young!Akane viewing the events of the game and its seperate storylines via morphogenetic fields from the past. Without having gone through at least one other path, the impact of this revelation is lost, and with it the central player punch of the story.
I do think that the game could have communicated better how exactly you were changing your path by going through the different doors; I only really worked it out in retrospect. It helps that for the most part every decision you take is an important one, with very few exceptions, but the game is long enough that until you start your fast-forward playthroughs you probably won't remember it.
Jintor said:
It's not the fact that I have to wait for the text - if I was an impatient man I wouldn't play this type of game - it's just that it ruins the pacing. Before I was getting engrossed in the story by reading every line and getting absorbed in the atmopshere, then suddenly when they want me to skip text to advance the story it hardly feels like I'm deeply invested anymore. I'm just pushing buttons to drag myself to the eventual reveal.
HalfbrickPhil said:
Hmm. I kind of felt the same way for the first one or two new endings - axe and sub - but by the time I hit the safe and true endings, the revelations were coming so fast and thick there was no way I wasn't going to read every line of the story. It does slow down the pacing a tad, but not to the degree that you're saying, and it regains the momentum by the time it hits the super storylines.
â Narayan
Member
I got the True Ending earlier today and finished reading The Answers a couple hours ago. I've spent a lot of time reading this thread.
Outstanding game. I want a sequel set 9 years after the first game. >
"Extreme Extrication" is my favorite track.
It's really sad that Junpei never gets closure with Akane. Also, I may have missed it, but was it ever explained as to why Snake went along with Akane's death in Seven's story?
Outstanding game. I want a sequel set 9 years after the first game. >
"Extreme Extrication" is my favorite track.
It's really sad that Junpei never gets closure with Akane. Also, I may have missed it, but was it ever explained as to why Snake went along with Akane's death in Seven's story?
This is how I felt when I went for every ending aside from the true one. This encouraged me to space out the time between my True Ending playthrough and every playthrough before that. I didn't skip any text in the true playthrough. I wanted to have that fresh feeling again.HalfbrickPhil said:
â Narayan
Member
Eh, I suppose that will have to do then.Korigama said:
So hey, I was directed here by Akselziys, and I'm about to read The Answers, but I'd just like to give my two cents on the whole thing:
This game has a really bittersweet ending. I mean, on the one hand, all the deserving people lived. On the other, the deception by Santa and Akane was truly dreadful. The main characters went through a lot, and they don't get absolute, 100% closure. Santa and Akane got away, despite their crimes, and Junpei probably won't see either of them again.
Which brings me to a question:
Was Akane/June purely manipulating Junpei? Or was there something genuine in the way she acted around him? I mean, generally the connection between two people was confined to siblings, yet Junpei was linked to Akane from nine years ago. The childhood flashbacks at least suggest they were very close back then, yet the way she manipulated him suggests to me that she'd changed by time she was older, so was it just one-sided feelings from Junpei in the "present", linking up with a more innocent Akane in the past, the current one not feeling a thing?
Right, I'm gonna read The Answers now. Hopefully, my question was answered there. If not, does anyone have their 2 cents on this?
This game has a really bittersweet ending. I mean, on the one hand, all the deserving people lived. On the other, the deception by Santa and Akane was truly dreadful. The main characters went through a lot, and they don't get absolute, 100% closure. Santa and Akane got away, despite their crimes, and Junpei probably won't see either of them again.
Which brings me to a question:
Was Akane/June purely manipulating Junpei? Or was there something genuine in the way she acted around him? I mean, generally the connection between two people was confined to siblings, yet Junpei was linked to Akane from nine years ago. The childhood flashbacks at least suggest they were very close back then, yet the way she manipulated him suggests to me that she'd changed by time she was older, so was it just one-sided feelings from Junpei in the "present", linking up with a more innocent Akane in the past, the current one not feeling a thing?
Right, I'm gonna read The Answers now. Hopefully, my question was answered there. If not, does anyone have their 2 cents on this?
Belisarius
Member
Lost in translation, yes. Boob joke, no. I forget exactly what the joke was in Japanese, but I'm pretty sure it was some sort of bad J-word pun.jaxword said:
My interpretation was that June/Akane's feelings for Junpei were more or less genuine. She is extremely smart, frighteningly driven, and unquestionably manipulative, but I think that everything she did, she did (mostly) because she wanted to live and this was the only way to do it. Uchikoshi says in the Answers a couple of times that Akane/June makes the things that happen happen because that's what she "remembers." Until she could get the "future" to match up with those memories, she'd just be stuck in the loop. Besides, being manipulative doesn't mean you don't have feelings for the people you manipulate. You could argue that she forced him into that situation, but I have no doubt that Junpei would have volunteered for it if he had/could have been asked, and it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.Omikaru said:
In other words, yes, I think their love is true. <3
Omikaru said:
In my opinion, it's genuine feelings for Junpei that were exascerbated by the need to manipulate him in order to live and because of the whole time paradox scenario (she needed to manipulate him because she had already manipulated him, etc)
The reason she just drives off at the end is (according to the answers) because she couldn't face them (esp. Junpei) after what she had done, so there is most definitely at least an element of caring for them/about their opinions of her, etc.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Okay, finished the game last night. Fucking amazing stuff.
I just wanted to add one thought about the whole "time paradox" thing. I wonder if the way time flows in this game follows the Suzumiya Haruhi form of time-travel/manipulation. In the Suzumiya Haruhi books, time doesn't flow in a line. It's more like several layers stacked upon one another, and one simply needs to break through these layers to access different eras of time (she describes it as "like animation" Things appear to be moving, but are really nothing more than single images stacked over each other). Alternate paths could just be different layers.
Or maybe that doesn't change a goddamn thing. I dunno, that's why I never write about time travel. XD
/2 cents
I just wanted to add one thought about the whole "time paradox" thing. I wonder if the way time flows in this game follows the Suzumiya Haruhi form of time-travel/manipulation. In the Suzumiya Haruhi books, time doesn't flow in a line. It's more like several layers stacked upon one another, and one simply needs to break through these layers to access different eras of time (she describes it as "like animation" Things appear to be moving, but are really nothing more than single images stacked over each other). Alternate paths could just be different layers.
Or maybe that doesn't change a goddamn thing. I dunno, that's why I never write about time travel. XD
/2 cents
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Akselziys said:Now go read The Answers, mon fraire
Ah, I thought that link was just the official site. That's what I get for not reading. Off to check out the Answers. ^^
Just read though the Answers. I like everything except Akane and Junpei not ever seeing each other again. Call me a hopeless romantic and I know it's considered canon but no way do I accept that what is essentially a story about the power of love ends without the lovers ever seeing each other again.
The whole situation is huge and tragic but time heals and I choose to believe that somewhere in the future Junpei and Akane do reunite. They've been in each others heads for way too long and are too important to each other not to. But hey, that's just me! =)
The whole situation is huge and tragic but time heals and I choose to believe that somewhere in the future Junpei and Akane do reunite. They've been in each others heads for way too long and are too important to each other not to. But hey, that's just me! =)
shadyspace
Banned
matmanx1 said:
Same here. It just makes Akane into an entirely manipulative character as opposed to one who did what she had to to be with the man she loved.
HalfbrickPhil said:This is a really awesome, cool, atmospheric and interesting game.
It's interesting because of the exciting setting, unique gameplay format, the cool characters and the mystery about who is behind the Nonary Game and why.
So why did they have the add an entire level of timeline/future/realities stuff that seems to come in right at the end of every JRPG / adventure game? Why couldn't they have made it a story about 9 people trapped in the Nonary Game, as you go along you find out more about each person and why they are there, then they escape and find out who was behind it all and then everything works out?
Basically, why is this not the case - and instead we're left wondering exactly what the hell is going on and don't actually know what timeline/future/reality we are in and if the people you have been in the Nonary Game with actually exist? And what you were doing is a copy of what happened 9 years before or is in someone's mind - or is it?
I mean, call me a simpleton (hey, I make simple games
Don't tell anyone, but I agree with both the game being awesome and your complaints. Those in the know know the safe ending is where it's at.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
jay said:
Ya know what?! Looking back I think the Safe Ending blew me away more than the True Ending. The True Ending confused me more than shock me.
I took the Akane and Junpei not seeing each other again thing as a troll response
Also, I still think clover has some kind of severe personality defect. Even when Snake is around, she seems "off."
Character rankings, in order of awesomeness, from worst to best:
1. 9th guy (forgot his name)
2. Clover
3. Lotus
4. Santa
5. Ace
6. Snake
7. Junpei
8. June
9. Seven.
Edit: Moved Santa around because I didn't like having Ace as low as I did
Basically, there's a huge gap between clover and lotus, and a huge gap between lotus and everyone above her. Ace, Snake, Junpei, June, and Seven are all awesome, and Santa demolishes almost as many stereotypes as Seven does.
Also, I still think clover has some kind of severe personality defect. Even when Snake is around, she seems "off."
Character rankings, in order of awesomeness, from worst to best:
1. 9th guy (forgot his name)
2. Clover
3. Lotus
4. Santa
5. Ace
6. Snake
7. Junpei
8. June
9. Seven.
Edit: Moved Santa around because I didn't like having Ace as low as I did
Basically, there's a huge gap between clover and lotus, and a huge gap between lotus and everyone above her. Ace, Snake, Junpei, June, and Seven are all awesome, and Santa demolishes almost as many stereotypes as Seven does.
â Narayan
Member
I feel the same way. The whole psychic time-paradox stuff irritated me because of how cliche it is. It reminded me of MGS4 with the whole nanomachines deal. (Except not as bad.) Oh well. It's still a great game.Tricky I Shadow said:
timetokill
Banned
HalfbrickPhil said:
I disagree, and it would also remove a major reason why so many of us like the game. It actually used the multiple timelines thing in a clever way, and it also told the story in a way, using the platform, that could only be done on the platform it was presented on.
The multiple endings actually reinforces the theme and concept of the game. And if I recally correctly, the creator said he started with that and worked backwards. In other words, it's not "tacked on" as you might suggest -- it was the genesis of the concept itself.
Slightly OT, but...
Playing through (and finishing) 999 encouraged me to suffer through trying to find a copy of Ever17 for the past 2-3 months.
I've finally gotten it, and man is it good.
Maybe I just needed 999 to kick me in the right direction into playing VNs, because they just feel like the part of my life that has been missing for so long.
Also I just realized something... If you take the true number of everyones bracelets and divide them by 9, you get the combination to the safe and coffin in the Safe, Coffin, and True endings. HOLY COW!
Brackets used to indicate true numbers (not multiplication):
12(9)45(0)789
divided by 9 = 14383421
Man, this game is great.
Playing through (and finishing) 999 encouraged me to suffer through trying to find a copy of Ever17 for the past 2-3 months.
I've finally gotten it, and man is it good.
Maybe I just needed 999 to kick me in the right direction into playing VNs, because they just feel like the part of my life that has been missing for so long.
Also I just realized something... If you take the true number of everyones bracelets and divide them by 9, you get the combination to the safe and coffin in the Safe, Coffin, and True endings. HOLY COW!
Brackets used to indicate true numbers (not multiplication):
12(9)45(0)789
divided by 9 = 14383421
Man, this game is great.
This.AniHawk said:
She was also somewhat retarded, or at least developmentally challenged, going by the way she acted in room 6.
I absolutely hated her. She was an idiot, had no personality, no interesting dialogue, and really brought down thequality of the game/story everywhere she was involved, in my opinion.'
The love for her can basically be summed up as:
Japan: "OMG KAWAII YANDERE-CHAN!!!!! ^______________^"
America: "PINK HAIR PSYCHOTIC BITCH HELL YEAH!!!!"
Even the 9th guy was better, although I rank him last simply because we see so little of him.
Please don't kill me for dissing your sister, Snake...
GaimeGuy said:
Neither the Ship of Theseus/Locke's Socks discussion nor the backstory of how Snake wound up the way he did were interesting? I already gave my take on everything else you said two months ago (including that exact same simplification of why anyone would actually like her), so I won't bother doing it twice. With the exception of the 9th Man, I don't consider any of them simplistic enough to sum up in a single sentence or generalization.
Your picks for top four best aren't bad, though.
Quick question: Ace was the killer in the knife and sub endings, right? He snatched the knife from the corpse of the 9th guy (or maybe used the knife from the kitchen if he went into room 4... or he had his own knife, somehow). In the sub ending, he was playing dead when Seven, Lotus, and Junpei stumbled upon the bodies.
One thing I don't get... if the 9th guy wasn't actually #9, how was he able to open door #5? Or was door 5 just rigged especially for that kind of an authentication (part of the trap for ace, so to speak).
Or, was he actually 9, and Seven pried the paths for door 5 open so that Santa and June could swap bracelets when everyone went looking for the equipment for doors 3, 7, and 8? (Ace went back to the 9th man's body when everyone looked for snake, iirc)
One thing I don't get... if the 9th guy wasn't actually #9, how was he able to open door #5? Or was door 5 just rigged especially for that kind of an authentication (part of the trap for ace, so to speak).
Or, was he actually 9, and Seven pried the paths for door 5 open so that Santa and June could swap bracelets when everyone went looking for the equipment for doors 3, 7, and 8? (Ace went back to the 9th man's body when everyone looked for snake, iirc)