LegendofJoe
Member
Doran will never ally with Dany after he hears from Quentyn's companions what happened to him. His death and story arc are far from pointless, although I do agree it could have been told in less pages.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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Perhaps, but I honestly don't mind. A great part of the appeal of ASoIaF for me is how believable the characters, how human. Quentyn was more than a political figure, he was a son who doubted his abilities greatly, was presented with a task that he didn't think he could measure up to, failed before he even had a real chance to try, and died in an attempt to accomplish it anyway. If characters were marginalized to be nothing but plot devices, this series wouldn't grip us the way it does.
pr0cs
Member
I agree with this, I didn't find his story pointless but tragic to see things end like that for him.Generic said:
My biggest beef is Dany's story arc and how it seems to have seriously stalled with no movement throughout a lot of the last 2 books.
It's a shame because for a while there her story was the most exciting for me: ie: "Drogon," she sang out loudly, sweetly, all her fear forgotten. "Dracarys."
Pollux
Member
I can't wait for this moment. Doran is one of my favorite characters as I posted awhile back. Dude is the most unassuming badass ever. Emperor Palpatine (minus the awesome powers and lightsaber battles) level badass. Basically an old dude who pulls the strings and is actually just as much of a cold blooded killer as his brother was.LegendofJoe said:
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Generic said:
He is of the night... ugh.
I feel like Doran is most likely going to die by the end of the series. He seems to have everything planned out, and seems to be one of the most likely kingmakers around, since he has the most to offer. However, I can see GRRM just having him killed by something unconnected with the plots of every other major player just to prove that there is power outside of themselves. That could also go fro any of the other major players in the story. It would be interesting if any of them were killed by disgruntled commoners or bandits, especially since GRRM has been building up how poor conditions have become for the lowly non-nobles in the wake of the war.zmoney said:
suzu said:
As he was remembering his time at Winterfell I felt genuine remorse at what all had happened since the beginning of the book. I felt as if I were partly responsible for believing that the Starks were the good-guys and Winterfell would always be this awesome place where our Protagonists grew up. It was an interesting mirror to the first books and was some of the best stuff in ADWD.
JasonUresti
Member
I hope in the next book we get 500 pages on Dany holding court somewhere, and 300 pages of Jon trapped in Ghost.
Oh yes, we need more two paragraph long descriptions of every*single*meal that is eaten, no matter how small.
Days of Our Food indeed, Mr. Martin.
Oh yes, we need more two paragraph long descriptions of every*single*meal that is eaten, no matter how small.
Days of Our Food indeed, Mr. Martin.
Just finished ADWD. I'm totally on board with Jon being the product of Rhaegar and Lyanna. I only just started reading the series back in August after watching the first season of Game of Thrones. I was so pumped at the end of Game of Thrones with Robb declaring his title as King of the North, that I immediately bought the four book box set and started reading. I was convinced that Robb and Dany were the subjects of the Song of Ice and Fire, but the Red Wedding completely obliterated that idea.
I feel like George set the stage with killing Ned, that any character is fair game to die. But it seems that he just teases you now. Oh, you think I just killed this person off, but not really, haha. Robb was never a POV character, so really, the only main character that has died has been Ned. So, like everyone else, I don't think Jon is dead, even if that's what George wants us to believe.
I feel like George set the stage with killing Ned, that any character is fair game to die. But it seems that he just teases you now. Oh, you think I just killed this person off, but not really, haha. Robb was never a POV character, so really, the only main character that has died has been Ned. So, like everyone else, I don't think Jon is dead, even if that's what George wants us to believe.
PhoenixDark
Banned
tokkun said:
TWOW spoilers:
He takes it very quickly allegedly, according to Arianne's pov
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Do you guys think Daario could be one of Littlefinger's cronies?
arglebargle
Member
ill post some thoughts on the recent action in this thread.
i have spent five books being bored by dany chapters (with the brief exception of her unleashing the dragons in astapor). if all that was for naught and she never makes it to westeros ill be a little pissed, but also respectful of a masterful troll.
darkstar is awesome.
ive mentioned this before, but im firmly in the stark camp even though they have been dying off book by book. my hopes were on the jon/arya/bran/rickon combo of the wall and possible heir/assassin and avenging badass/magical greenseer/possible lord of winterfell quartet, so hopefully they are all still alive and capable of fulfilling those roles.
doran may end up being the ultimate kingmaker in this book. his revelation that he had been working with the red viper hand in glove the whole time and handing her that dragon piece revealed how well he may be playing the long game. i respect patience and therefore would like to see something work out for him.
edit:
as for this, i never discount the reach of littlefinger. it wouldnt surprise me in the least to learn that he has someone in danys camp, possible moving between her and the harpy.
i have spent five books being bored by dany chapters (with the brief exception of her unleashing the dragons in astapor). if all that was for naught and she never makes it to westeros ill be a little pissed, but also respectful of a masterful troll.
darkstar is awesome.
ive mentioned this before, but im firmly in the stark camp even though they have been dying off book by book. my hopes were on the jon/arya/bran/rickon combo of the wall and possible heir/assassin and avenging badass/magical greenseer/possible lord of winterfell quartet, so hopefully they are all still alive and capable of fulfilling those roles.
doran may end up being the ultimate kingmaker in this book. his revelation that he had been working with the red viper hand in glove the whole time and handing her that dragon piece revealed how well he may be playing the long game. i respect patience and therefore would like to see something work out for him.
edit:
sazabirules said:
as for this, i never discount the reach of littlefinger. it wouldnt surprise me in the least to learn that he has someone in danys camp, possible moving between her and the harpy.
Basileus777
Member
sazabirules said:
I think it would be a huge stretch. Littlefinger has no way of holding Daario's loyalty, especially since he is fucking Dany. Remember how Littlefinger lost the Kettleblacks to Cersei?
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Basileus777 said:
I thought Cersei just thought they were her men when in reality they weren't.
arglebargle
Member
Basileus777 said:
i had never thought of daario specifically, but id be shocked if he doesnt keep a close eye on dany. there is no way she shows up in westeros and he say "oh shit, the last known surviving targaryen, i had forgotten about you". he is too good a player for that.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I don't get the Darkstar love. He does one thing - fuck up a little girl and run away...
Basileus777
Member
sazabirules said:
Tyrion thought they were his when they really worked for Littlefinger. Cersei won them over with sex and putting one in the Kingsguard. They pretty much stayed loyal to her until she got arrested.
arglebargle said:
Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if Littlefinger had someone inside Mereen working for him. I just don't think Daario makes sense for that role.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Basileus777 said:
That still doesn't mean they're not working for Littlefinger anymore.
Basileus777
Member
sazabirules said:
IIRC Littlefinger himself talks about it at some point. I think it was to Sansa.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Basileus777 said:
Oh okay thanks.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
PhoenixDark said:
I never knew such a thing was possible until just now.
AngmarsKing701
Member
Dresden said:
I hope it ends with Arya cutting Cersei's throat.
PhoenixDark
Banned
TCRS said:
Why do I have a feeling Davos will find Rickon in a less than...ideal physical or mental state when he finds him. I keep imagining Davos getting captured by the savages before Osha gets them to free him. He asks her to take him to Rickon and she takes him to Shaggydog and is like "here is Rickon"
PhoenixDark said:
My guess is that Osha will have lost Rickon some night while she was asleep and now Rickon and Shaggy dog prowl the wilderness feeding on chicken, goats, and men.
When Davos finally catches up with Rickon, Rickon and Shaggy will be feasting on a human carcass. Rickon's face and hands will be covered in blood and bits of human flesh and organs will be smeared on his face, hands, and clothes (if he is wearing any).
Rickon and Shaggy will then kill Davos and stuff him in a refrigerator for future nurishment
brianjones
Member
Generic said:
but his name is fucking darkstar
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
So I just finished ADwD. A few thoughts:
- The Ironborn are superfluous to the story and Irish Vikings wanting to recapture lost glories just aren't that interesting to me.
- Quentyn. Why does he exist? Dany's dragons could have been freed inadvertantly during Hizdhar zo Loraq's attempt to have them killed. As it is, he seems to serve to make all the Dorne shenanigans in AFfC completely pointless. He could have excised completely and the story would have lost nothing.
- Daario is barely a character. Why does Dany spend so much time obsessing over him? I'd understand if he had any PoV chapters, but as it is, he's a cardboard cutout of Captain Jack Sparrow with his hair painted blue. Anyway, anytime he was mentioned, I just rolled my eyes.
- Too much messing around in Meereen. The wedding and dragon flight should have happened halfway through the book rather than toward the end. Would have accomplished the same thing.
- Aegon WTF? GRRM just pulled this guy out of his arse, and for what purpose? We're meant to like him, but he smacks of retcon and Deus Ex Machina. No warning, no foreshadowing, no introduction in prior books that might make me care if he lives or is raped to death by grumkins. The reveal was meant to be a big moment and all it did was make me angry. Ugh.
- I liked Jon, Arya, Tyrion and Jon Connington's chapters. Reek and Davos chapters I could take or leave, but I was never in love with their characters.
I read AFfC and ADwD back-to-back and I have to say that they could have been condensed into one book and come out all the better for it. Less time in Dorne, the Iron Isles and Meereen and handle some of the events like the Kingsmoot, Tyrion's journey and Daario's seduction of Dany as a one chapter flashback rather than drag them out.
- The Ironborn are superfluous to the story and Irish Vikings wanting to recapture lost glories just aren't that interesting to me.
- Quentyn. Why does he exist? Dany's dragons could have been freed inadvertantly during Hizdhar zo Loraq's attempt to have them killed. As it is, he seems to serve to make all the Dorne shenanigans in AFfC completely pointless. He could have excised completely and the story would have lost nothing.
- Daario is barely a character. Why does Dany spend so much time obsessing over him? I'd understand if he had any PoV chapters, but as it is, he's a cardboard cutout of Captain Jack Sparrow with his hair painted blue. Anyway, anytime he was mentioned, I just rolled my eyes.
- Too much messing around in Meereen. The wedding and dragon flight should have happened halfway through the book rather than toward the end. Would have accomplished the same thing.
- Aegon WTF? GRRM just pulled this guy out of his arse, and for what purpose? We're meant to like him, but he smacks of retcon and Deus Ex Machina. No warning, no foreshadowing, no introduction in prior books that might make me care if he lives or is raped to death by grumkins. The reveal was meant to be a big moment and all it did was make me angry. Ugh.
- I liked Jon, Arya, Tyrion and Jon Connington's chapters. Reek and Davos chapters I could take or leave, but I was never in love with their characters.
I read AFfC and ADwD back-to-back and I have to say that they could have been condensed into one book and come out all the better for it. Less time in Dorne, the Iron Isles and Meereen and handle some of the events like the Kingsmoot, Tyrion's journey and Daario's seduction of Dany as a one chapter flashback rather than drag them out.
He is a red herring and I was annoyed as well, until a sudden revelation justified him: the sun must set in the east!
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
I don't doubt that he might be sexy and awesome, but as it is, he's just a name, some ridiculous hair and a gold tooth.
I get it, but either give him a bigger role or cut him and find some other way to justify the prophecy.
elrechazado
Banned
Daario is just an amalgam of every single douchebag guy that the chicks GRRM lusted after all through high school actually went out with instead of him.
I think he was just a red herring intended to divert the reader's attention away from the real traitor, Brown Ben Plumm.
Aegon is foreshadowed in one of the House of the Undying visions in A Clash of Kings.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
Explain (I haven't kept up with the book threads as I only started reading ASoIaF in June or so).
I think it was in Dany's vision at the House of the Undying. I also think Bran's first vision showed some events that happened in the subsequent books. Remember it all started out as a trilogy so he must have had a lot of stuff planned from the very beginning.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Dany has a vision of a crowd cheering a paper dragon. Many believe this can be translated as Aegon being a fake. Some think he could be Illyrio's son, and Varys is clearly in on it.
Regardless of whether he's real or fake, Aegon has pulled off some major victories which make me think he's being set up for a classic grrm fall from grace
At this point, as long as Bronn and the fat dude have happy endings, I am happy.
A Clash of Kings, p. 530.
A Clash of Kings, p. 660.
And A Dance With Dragons, p. 153.
To muddy the waters further, Aurane Waters will probably show up in Mereen in the next book claiming to be Aegon as well.
dead souls
Member
George R.R. Martin, the ultimate Nice Guy?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
i_am_ben
running_here_and_there
I'm pretty sure all the girls GRRM lusted after were more interested in dolls than men.
Do you really think that his death will have no impact with Dany's relations to Dorne when she finally comes to westeros?
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