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[apana]

It may be simpler just to kill Craster here and not have to pay this actor for another season. Though they would be killing their host which honorable men can't do.

For a dead thread, there's a lot to talk about still.



Well when I said "shipping" the first time, I was being sarcastic. I just never wrote out a "" emoticon.


.

 

[IAmtheFMan]

Who said this thread was dead?

If anything, I feel like this is the real thread where I can talk about anything, and the other threads are like plugging back into the Matrix where I gots to watch what I say and keep a paranoid eye out.

 

[Basileus777]

Who said this thread was dead?

If anything, I feel like this is the real thread where I can talk about anything, and the other threads are like plugging back into the Matrix where I gots to watch what I say and keep a paranoid eye out.

It was here.

 

[ultron87]

Kind of crazy that this episode is just the start of Theon's douchebagification. He has so far to go still.

 

[bengraven]

Meh, he's OK.

I always pictured Roose as Bill Nighy:

My man.

*brofist*

same here.

Hundreds of posts in the past few weeks, if that's not dead, I don't know what is.

The thread goes into sleep mode for a few weeks, then comes back strong. What is not dead may never die.

We're between books, it's to be expected. It is known. Oh oh, oh oh...

(yes, I'm getting as many quotes as I can into this, but I have to: winter is coming)

It may be simpler just to kill Craster here and not have to pay this actor for another season. Though they would be killing their host which honorable men can't do.

I suspected this at first until I saw the preview.

It would just mean that Mormont would die at another place.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Kind of crazy that this episode is just the start of Theon's douchebagification. He has so far to go still.

Yup. And you can see how well it's all being set up. I cannot wait for Reek.

 

[Schweinehund]

I hope we see an immediate resolution to the cliff hangers in ADWD.

Jon's cliff hangar should be resolved. The wall is def my favorite story of the bunch. Even sam's story is better than the shit that happens in dany's chapters.


PoV tier list

Can't wait for next chapter tier:
Jon
Arya
Melisandre
Sansa

Was once good, now is turning to shit tier:
Tyrion
Jaime

Meh, starting to get potential tier:
Bran
Davos
Theon
Sam

Who gives a shit? Tier:

Danerys
Quenty, Doran, Dorne bullshit.
Asha
Brienne


Dream PoV Tier:

Petyr
Sandor

 

[KingK]

Yup. And you can see how well it's all being set up. I cannot wait for Reek.

Yeah, and Theon's actor is really doing well so far, imo. He didn't get enough screentime in season one to give off much of an impression, but he's nailing the character now, I'd say. I really hope we get to season 5 so we can see if he can handle playing Reek.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Yeah, and Theon's actor is really doing well so far, imo. He didn't get enough screentime in season one to give off much of an impression, but he's nailing the character now, I'd say. I really hope we get to season 5 so we can see if he can handle playing Reek.

Or with any luck end of season 3/beginning of season 4!

 

[ZeroRay]

It was here.

What is dead may never die, etc, etc.

 

[Pollux]

Yeah, and Theon's actor is really doing well so far, imo. He didn't get enough screentime in season one to give off much of an impression, but he's nailing the character now, I'd say. I really hope we get to season 5 so we can see if he can handle playing Reek.

His look with the Asha/Yara reveal was perfect.

It was here.

Not quite applicable, but...valar morghulis.

 

[bengraven]

The scene with Balon and Theon is one of my favorites from the books, with the scene outside in the cold where the servant reveals that Asha is his sister is one of the funniest scenes. Seeing them combined and still faithful to the books made me happy.

That is one of my favorite scenes from the entire series now.

Dude is an awesome Balon.

I hope we see an immediate resolution to the cliff hangers in ADWD.

Jon's cliff hangar should be resolved. The wall is def my favorite story of the bunch. Even sam's story is better than the shit that happens in dany's chapters.


PoV tier list

Can't wait for next chapter tier:
Jon
Arya
Melisandre
Sansa

Was once good, now is turning to shit tier:
Tyrion
Jaime

Meh, starting to get potential tier:
Bran
Davos
Theon
Sam

Who gives a shit? Tier:

Danerys
Quenty, Doran, Dorne bullshit.
Asha
Brienne


Dream PoV Tier:

Petyr
Sandor

I agree with almost all of these, except your dream POVs and a few others.

Asha - she has potential for some interesting stories
Jaime/Brienne - I want to know what the fuck is going on. I predict some kind of trial and of course another lynching "attempt"
Tyrion - getting slow, but the preview chapter hints that we might be getting over this hopefully soon and things will get good

My big issue is this: the characters with POVs are getting closer and closer to each other and in some cases are actually together now. I worry that we'll have a lot of scenes overlapping, like the Sam and Jon chapters from Feast/ADWD.

Potential for overlap:

Dani/Tyrion/Victarion/Barristan
Brienne/Jaime
Asha/Theon/Melisandre/Jon?

 

[KingK]

Or with any luck end of season 3/beginning of season 4!

I can see them moving up the start of his ADWD arc just so that he won't be completely absent for 2 seasons, but I think making him gone that long in the books really made the shock of what he had become all the more effective.

Going into Dance, Theon was my 2nd least favorite POV in the series. I hated his chapters in Clash, and when I had heard that he had the most chapters in Dance other than Jon/Dany/Tyrion, it very much lowered my expectations. Needless to say I was shocked when he ended up having my favorite chapters in the book, and maybe even the series.

His look with the Asha/Yara reveal was perfect.

Agreed.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

I can see them moving up the start of his ADWD arc just so that he won't be completely absent for 2 seasons, but I think making him gone that long in the books really made the shock of what he had become all the more effective.

Going into Dance, Theon was my 2nd least favorite POV in the series. I hated his chapters in Clash, and when I had heard that he had the most chapters in Dance other than Jon/Dany/Tyrion, it very much lowered my expectations. Needless to say I was shocked when he ended up having my favorite chapters in the book, and maybe even the series.



Agreed.

To both of your assertions I completely agree. I just doubt they'll keep him off for more than what, 7-8 episodes? Maybe he's a beginning of season 4 reveal if Ramsay sacks Winterfell in season 3.

And yep, his "Yara?!" and sputtering "bbbbut you're a woman!" deliveries were fucking spot on.

Also, re: Davos, someone mentioned in the other thread and I have to agree, I really like dry/sarcastic Davos in the show almost more than book Davos.

 

[KingK]

My big issue is this: the characters with POVs are getting closer and closer to each other and in some cases are actually together now. I worry that we'll have a lot of scenes overlapping, like the Sam and Jon chapters from Feast/ADWD.

Potential for overlap:

Dani/Tyrion/Victarion/Barristan
Brienne/Jaime
Asha/Theon/Melisandre/Jon?

That's not an issue, that's a solution to the issue of having too many POVs now. Martin can just drop some of those characters as POV characters now that they're with others. Barriston's POV can be dropped when Dany is back, Victarion can die (hopefully), Brienne POV can be dropped in favor of Jaime, etc.

Without introducing this overlap and dropping some POVs, the story would take much more than 2 more books to finish. I'm taking this overlap as a sign that GRRM does have an idea where he's taking the story and that he might be able to finish it.

 

[bengraven]

That's not an issue, that's a solution to the issue of having too many POVs now. Martin can just drop some of those characters as POV characters now that they're with others. Barriston's POV can be dropped when Dany is back, Victarion can die (hopefully), Brienne POV can be dropped in favor of Jaime, etc.

Without introducing this overlap and dropping some POVs, the story would take much more than 2 more books to finish. I'm taking this overlap as a sign that GRRM does have an idea where he's taking the story and that he might be able to finish it.

I trust he'll be able to decide which character is right for the scene, though I picture that becoming yet another obstacle he needs to get over.

"Would this scene be better from Jaime or Brienne's perspective? Fuck. I'll let the fans know this is going to take seven years..."

 

[Basileus777]

I trust he'll be able to decide which character is right for the scene, though I picture that becoming yet another obstacle he needs to get over.

"Would this scene be better from Jaime or Brienne's perspective? Fuck. I'll let the fans know this is going to take seven years..."

This has already happened, it was one of the big obstacles relating to the Mereenese Knot. Apparently the stuff that ended up in Barristan's POV was first covered by other characters like Quentyn. Maybe that's why Quentyn felt so pointless, his POV is a bit of a relic from before GRRM used Barristan as a POV to cover the Mereen story.

 

[i_am_ben]

I wish there was enough time for Myrcella to play a POV role in the series. She's the only hope for the Lannisters at this point despite the fact she's prophesised to die.

 

[Schweinehund]

The scene with Balon and Theon is one of my favorites from the books, with the scene outside in the cold where the servant reveals that Asha is his sister is one of the funniest scenes. Seeing them combined and still faithful to the books made me happy.

That is one of my favorite scenes from the entire series now.

Dude is an awesome Balon.



I agree with almost all of these, except your dream POVs and a few others.

Asha - she has potential for some interesting stories
Jaime/Brienne - I want to know what the fuck is going on. I predict some kind of trial and of course another lynching "attempt"
Tyrion - getting slow, but the preview chapter hints that we might be getting over this hopefully soon and things will get good

My big issue is this: the characters with POVs are getting closer and closer to each other and in some cases are actually together now. I worry that we'll have a lot of scenes overlapping, like the Sam and Jon chapters from Feast/ADWD.

Potential for overlap:

Dani/Tyrion/Victarion/Barristan
Brienne/Jaime
Asha/Theon/Melisandre/Jon?

Some of the characters are getting better. I also think tyrion is going to get much better and daeny as well, once he gets in her company (if he does, I remember how excited I was to think arya was going to get back to her family again and then everything went to hell ).

Petyr is my dream pov but its unlikely he'll get a PoV. If there was a criminal mastermind element to the book it would be either him or varys. Having him as PoV would reveal too much about his plans.

I think we'll see a lot of FFC chapters go away/melt with other ones. The trend seems to be the north, king's landing, dorne, and estros. There will always be a major player in each of those places.

 

[bengraven]

This has already happened, it was one of the big obstacles relating to the Mereenese Knot. Apparently the stuff that ended up in Barristan's POV was first covered by other characters like Quentyn. Maybe that's why Quentyn felt so pointless, his POV is a bit of a relic from before GRRM used Barristan as a POV to cover the Mereen story.

Yeah, I can see that.

Some of the characters are getting better. I also think tyrion is going to get much better and daeny as well, once he gets in her company (if he does, I remember how excited I was to think arya was going to get back to her family again and then everything went to hell ).

Petyr is my dream pov but its unlikely he'll get a PoV. If there was a criminal mastermind element to the book it would be either him or varys. Having him as PoV would reveal too much about his plans.

I think we'll see a lot of FFC chapters go away/melt with other ones. The trend seems to be the north, king's landing, dorne, and estros. There will always be a major player in each of those places.

GRRM said that Varys will never be a POV because he "knows too much".

I can see Varys being the final POV of the series.

 

[arglebargle]

I hope we see an immediate resolution to the cliff hangers in ADWD.

Jon's cliff hangar should be resolved. The wall is def my favorite story of the bunch. Even sam's story is better than the shit that happens in dany's chapters.


PoV tier list

Can't wait for next chapter tier:
Jon
Arya
Melisandre
Sansa

Was once good, now is turning to shit tier:
Tyrion
Jaime

Meh, starting to get potential tier:
Bran
Davos
Theon
Sam

Who gives a shit? Tier:

Danerys
Quenty, Doran, Dorne bullshit.
Asha
Brienne


Dream PoV Tier:

Petyr
Sandor

this is a fun game that i have never really played. i think i like your "Meh, starting to get potential tier:" better than you do, especially bran (im on team stark). i agree with most of the "Who gives a shit? Tier:" but doran displaying the dragon piece was a really cool scene because i can appreciate that he is playing the long game. dany's stuff is so slow, the only positive feeling i had when coming upon one of hers was that something may actually happen and we would make some progress. unfortunately that hasnt happened in like 3000 pages. you are absolutely right about the top tier though. which at this point is why petyr PoVs may not be necessary, since we get a lot of his actions (though i guess not his thoughts) through sansa. davos could have some serious potential in the next book.

 

[i_am_ben]

Arya has been on my who gives a shit list ever since book 1. I hate off-the-shelf tomboy characters and the fact she's now studying to be an assassin makes it just that much worse.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Does it now become cannon that Mel nailed Stannis? I thought it was pretty much given after aDWD, but i've seen people still doubt it. If the show got input from GRRM, then i'd say it's pretty much fact now.

I thought ADWD make it pretty clear personally, and connect that with the shadow baby stuff and Stannis become very exhausted looking from it and it seems pretty clear. Add the show's events, and yeah, it happened.

So what is the show pretending to do with Craster? You guys think they're just gonna end that character right there and then? They know he's willfully helping the Others, Mormont can't let that pass.

Don't think it really changes anything. I thought it was pretty clear in the books that Mormont/Night's Watch had very strong suspicions that Craster was doing that, but they weren't about to confront him about it because Mormont recognized him as a valuable contact beyond the wall that would house his rangers and give them information.

In the show (based on ep preview and trailers), it looks like Craster comes back and tells Mormont to GTFO, and Jon tried to tell Mormont what he saw, but Mormont cuts him off and doesn't let him finish. Mormont probably realizes what he saw, but he has already suspected Craster of doing his and values Craster as a contact for the Night's Watch regardless of his actions.

 

[KingK]

Arya has been on my who gives a shit list ever since book 1. I hate off-the-shelf tomboy characters and the fact she's now studying to be an assassin makes it just that much worse.

 

[apana]

I really want Bran chapters but George Martin said that those are the hardest for him to right, he enjoys writing them but I guess it is hard to get into the head of a crippled boy with super powers.

 

[Apath]

Would someone be so kind as to post a link to all three of the preview chapter readings? I keep getting dead links or links to videos that are live (and have already lapsed).

 

[PhoenixDark]

Martin interview from Eastercon, hosted by Adam Whitehead
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/21681757

It's a pretty extensive interview covering Martin's entire career, but the ASOIAF gets heavy around the middle or so. Some interesting tidbits alongside the typical questions/answers ("herp derp which character is most like yourself?").

At one point Whitehead wonders if he can ask a particularly detailed, spoiler laden question from Elio but doesn't because many in the crowd haven't read ADWD. Bah, I wish there could be a long ass interview with no worries on spoilers. There's so much stuff I'd love to get Martin's thoughts on.

While discussing timelines, Martin jokes he should just kill off a bunch of characters in Meereen to make things easier. I definitely hope more characters start dying so the story can re-focus on a tighter cast - not just in Meereen, but Westeros as well.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Arya has been on my who gives a shit list ever since book 1. I hate off-the-shelf tomboy characters and the fact she's now studying to be an assassin makes it just that much worse.

Arya's adventures in the Riverlands (and Brienne's) go virtually nowhere. The only interesting parts of Arya's whole arc so far has been Jaquen at Harrenhal and brief bits with the Hound. The assassin thing is interesting, but it's taken too long for Martin to find her something to do that's actually relevant to the story.

Posted this in the other thread, un-spoiling here.

There are basically 4 (human) factions by the end of ADWD that seem to have shit going on behind the scenes: Littlefinger, Varys & the Targaryan heir(s), whomever the Oldtown faceless man was working for, and Euron Greyjoy. I really think that Euron is going to end up being the Big Bad for the series. We barely know anything about him, but he seems to know everything worth knowing about Westeros, the growth of magic in the world, and Danaerys. And he's got a ship named Silence. Littlefinger's plans are basically a land grab in comparison; if everything goes according to his plans, in a few years, he'll maybe be Lord or Regent of Winterfell, Riverrun, and The Eyrie. But no one will bow to him as King. Stannis & Melisandre, Prince Doran Martell, Cersei & the Tyrells - they haven't a clue what's going on, and will probably be the first to be wiped out in the coming showdown.

I have a feeling that Stannis is going to die horribly when Melisandre misguidedly sends him off to fight the Others with his "Lightbringer". And Davos will finally be justified in choking her to death.

And speaking of Melisandre, I have a feeling that in Winds of Winter, we'll finally find out whom she was referring to when she (and I think another Red Priest) talked about servants of the "Great Other." There have to be some humans working behind the scenes to advance the agenda of the Ice god in the world, since we see so many of the Fire god servants running around.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Arya's adventures in the Riverlands (and Brienne's) go virtually nowhere. The only interesting parts of Arya's whole arc so far has been Jaquen at Harrenhal and brief bits with the Hound. The assassin thing is interesting, but it's taken too long for Martin to find her something to do that's actually relevant to the story.

Posted this in the other thread, un-spoiling here.

There are basically 4 (human) factions by the end of ADWD that seem to have shit going on behind the scenes: Littlefinger, Varys & the Targaryan heir(s), whomever the Oldtown faceless man was working for, and Euron Greyjoy. I really think that Euron is going to end up being the Big Bad for the series. We barely know anything about him, but he seems to know everything worth knowing about Westeros, the growth of magic in the world, and Danaerys. And he's got a ship named Silence. Littlefinger's plans are basically a land grab in comparison; if everything goes according to his plans, in a few years, he'll maybe be Lord or Regent of Winterfell, Riverrun, and The Eyrie. But no one will bow to him as King. Stannis & Melisandre, Prince Doran Martell, Cersei & the Tyrells - they haven't a clue what's going on, and will probably be the first to be wiped out in the coming showdown.

I have a feeling that Stannis is going to die horribly when Melisandre misguidedly sends him off to fight the Others with his "Lightbringer". And Davos will finally be justified in choking her to death.

And speaking of Melisandre, I have a feeling that in Winds of Winter, we'll finally find out whom she was referring to when she (and I think another Red Priest) talked about servants of the "Great Other." There have to be some humans working behind the scenes to advance the agenda of the Ice god in the world, since we see so many of the Fire god servants running around.

I'm with you bro. I could easily believe euron is that ice god agent. He seems to know too much and has seemingly the one weapon that can bring down a dragon in that horn.

Littlefinger im less certain of. He has so many plans in place, i would imagine he must be partnered with someone at least. Regardless, he seems to be shaping sansa into a proper player in the 'game of thrones' which is something her character desperately needs. To long she has been someone we see things through rather than a character.

 

[q_q]

Arya has been on my who gives a shit list ever since book 1. I hate off-the-shelf tomboy characters and the fact she's now studying to be an assassin makes it just that much worse.

 

[Mattdaddy]

All the different gods and religions throw me for a loop trying to figure out who wields real power, who is bogus, etc.

Is R'hollor really supposed to be the "good god" that is going to help fight off the Others? I feel like there is some sinister motive for this guy, for some reason I don't want to trust him. Thoros seems like a good dude, but Melissandre and the red priest that Victarion finds act a lil shady. But then again he is the only god that seems to be actively taking action against the Others and the "Ice God".

The Old Gods haven't been doing much, but I guess they lost a lot of their power since old times? They did send Coldhands to get Bran, and I think they are going to start playing a bigger role now that Bran found the Treeman thing, anxious to see them get involved and get some Warg action going on a large scale.

As for the Drowned God and the 7 of Westeros, I don't even think they really exist. They haven't pissed a drop yet.

The Faceless Men... is their god supposed to be Death? They seem to be pretty neutral to everything, but their god does have some power I guess as they can change forms.

 

[suzu]

Just my opinion, but the only gods that ever seemed to do something in the series are the Old Gods.

I like to think they set up that whole omen-like scene with the dead stag/direwolf and sent the puppies to protect the Stark kids. lol.

 

[Puddles]

Just realized that the Damphair is Damp Hair.

All this time I thought it was some completely made up word that was pronounced Damn Fair.

Fucking hell.

 

[elrechazado]

My vote goes to "there are no gods, just powers that humans use in their own different ways".

 

[Steelyuhas]

Just my opinion, but the only gods that ever seemed to do something in the series are the Old Gods.

I like to think they set up that whole omen-like scene with the dead stag/direwolf and sent the puppies to protect the Stark kids. lol.

I like to think of the old gods as most important/most impact on the series as well.

Just realized that the Damphair is Damp Hair.

All this time I thought it was some completely made up word that was pronounced Damn Fair.

Fucking hell.

CANNOT UNSEE!

What have you done?!

 

[chiQ]

Just realized that the Damphair is Damp Hair.

All this time I thought it was some completely made up word that was pronounced Damn Fair.

Fucking hell.

Heh, I thought of him as Damp Hair when reading the books, then when I listened to the talking books and Dotrice pronounced it Damfare I got confused, stewed over it a bit, and ended up wondering if he'd got direction from Martin.

All the different gods and religions throw me for a loop trying to figure out who wields real power, who is bogus, etc.

Is R'hollor really supposed to be the "good god" that is going to help fight off the Others? I feel like there is some sinister motive for this guy, for some reason I don't want to trust him. Thoros seems like a good dude, but Melissandre and the red priest that Victarion finds act a lil shady. But then again he is the only god that seems to be actively taking action against the Others and the "Ice God".

The Old Gods haven't been doing much, but I guess they lost a lot of their power since old times? They did send Coldhands to get Bran, and I think they are going to start playing a bigger role now that Bran found the Treeman thing, anxious to see them get involved and get some Warg action going on a large scale.

As for the Drowned God and the 7 of Westeros, I don't even think they really exist. They haven't pissed a drop yet.

The Faceless Men... is their god supposed to be Death? They seem to be pretty neutral to everything, but their god does have some power I guess as they can change forms.

I didn't think the Faceless Men have any gods of their own. Am I going to have to read the books a third time this year? I seem to miss so much, even when I think I'm paying proper attention.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Dunno if I believe Euron is the big bad, but he clearly knows a lot more than he has revealed. I'm really curious as to what else he learned in Valaryia. I initially thought Victarian might wind up in the Doom as well, and stumble across something Euron found - and ultimately die.

I don't get the impression he's working to advance the Others or any other doomsday plot though. It seems like he just wants to be king, and have Dany as his slave/bride.

 

[Pollux]

Arya's adventures in the Riverlands (and Brienne's) go virtually nowhere. The only interesting parts of Arya's whole arc so far has been Jaquen at Harrenhal and brief bits with the Hound. The assassin thing is interesting, but it's taken too long for Martin to find her something to do that's actually relevant to the story.

Posted this in the other thread, un-spoiling here.

There are basically 4 (human) factions by the end of ADWD that seem to have shit going on behind the scenes: Littlefinger, Varys & the Targaryan heir(s), whomever the Oldtown faceless man was working for, and Euron Greyjoy. I really think that Euron is going to end up being the Big Bad for the series. We barely know anything about him, but he seems to know everything worth knowing about Westeros, the growth of magic in the world, and Danaerys. And he's got a ship named Silence. Littlefinger's plans are basically a land grab in comparison; if everything goes according to his plans, in a few years, he'll maybe be Lord or Regent of Winterfell, Riverrun, and The Eyrie. But no one will bow to him as King. Stannis & Melisandre, Prince Doran Martell, Cersei & the Tyrells - they haven't a clue what's going on, and will probably be the first to be wiped out in the coming showdown.

I have a feeling that Stannis is going to die horribly when Melisandre misguidedly sends him off to fight the Others with his "Lightbringer". And Davos will finally be justified in choking her to death.

And speaking of Melisandre, I have a feeling that in Winds of Winter, we'll finally find out whom she was referring to when she (and I think another Red Priest) talked about servants of the "Great Other." There have to be some humans working behind the scenes to advance the agenda of the Ice god in the world, since we see so many of the Fire god servants running around.

I'm calling Bran as the Great Other...He's going send his consciousness back in time in a training accident and become corrupted.

 

[Freshmaker]

All the different gods and religions throw me for a loop trying to figure out who wields real power, who is bogus, etc.

Is R'hollor really supposed to be the "good god" that is going to help fight off the Others? I feel like there is some sinister motive for this guy, for some reason I don't want to trust him. Thoros seems like a good dude, but Melissandre and the red priest that Victarion finds act a lil shady. But then again he is the only god that seems to be actively taking action against the Others and the "Ice God".

They seem to be opposites in elements only. Neither is especially trustworthy and the realms largely forgot about them for a reason I'm betting.

The Old Gods haven't been doing much, but I guess they lost a lot of their power since old times? They did send Coldhands to get Bran, and I think they are going to start playing a bigger role now that Bran found the Treeman thing, anxious to see them get involved and get some Warg action going on a large scale.

Old gods are just a memory bank of people who have mind melded with the trees. They'll probably have men's best interests in mind.

The Faceless Men... is their god supposed to be Death? They seem to be pretty neutral to everything, but their god does have some power I guess as they can change forms.

Fairly neutral power really.

 

[bengraven]

Dunno if I believe Euron is the big bad, but he clearly knows a lot more than he has revealed. I'm really curious as to what else he learned in Valaryia. I initially thought Victarian might wind up in the Doom as well, and stumble across something Euron found - and ultimately die.

I don't get the impression he's working to advance the Others or any other doomsday plot though. It seems like he just wants to be king, and have Dany as his slave/bride.

Completely forgot Euron was in Valyria.

Goddamn these books have so much density, there's no way two are enough.

We're seriously not getting the second one for at least 6 years, I promise you.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Yup, he got the horn from there. Makes me wonder whether the red priest is telling him the truth about what the runes on it say, and whether Victarion is just being set up to fail

Completely forgot Euron was in Valyria.

Goddamn these books have so much density, there's no way two are enough.

We're seriously not getting the second one for at least 6 years, I promise you.

At Eastercon Martin says he has like 200 pages, but has two projects to finish so he won't fully start working on it anytime soon; he did say he was excited to start it again though. He also mentioned he's turned down countless interviews and conventions, and his schedule is built 3-5 years in advance (the Eastercon appearance was booked like 3 years ago). So yea...

He went through a pretty in depth discussion of the Meereenese knot and 5 year gap, and how both ruined AFFC/ADWD in terms of coming out on time. With that out of the way, I still believe TWOW will come out in 2-3 years. He mentioned how hard it is to turn down invitations, and I'm sure it must be...but at some point he has to finish his obligations.

 

[Basileus777]

2015 is probably the earliest we could see the next book, and assuming 7 books will be enough (a big if at this point) 2018 seems like the best case scenario for it to all be finished.

Put a more pessimistic spin on that math and yeah....

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I think 2014 is a good target for Winds. There's pretty much no way two more books is going to be enough, though. There are simply too many dangling threads and characters, and not enough space to resolve everything in. Martin has said that the Storm/Dance length is about the maximum that his publishers will allow for one book, so it's not like he can just write even longer books.

 

[bengraven]

Yup, he got the horn from there. Makes me wonder whether the red priest is telling him the truth about what the runes on it say, and whether Victarion is just being set up to fail



At Eastercon Martin says he has like 200 pages, but has two projects to finish so he won't fully start working on it anytime soon; he did say he was excited to start it again though. He also mentioned he's turned down countless interviews and conventions, and his schedule is built 3-5 years in advance (the Eastercon appearance was booked like 3 years ago). So yea...

He went through a pretty in depth discussion of the Meereenese knot and 5 year gap, and how both ruined AFFC/ADWD in terms of coming out on time. With that out of the way, I still believe TWOW will come out in 2-3 years. He mentioned how hard it is to turn down invitations, and I'm sure it must be...but at some point he has to finish his obligations.

I'm sure part of him wants it all done as well, but being a perfectionist he won't rush it.

He said on LJ last year that he was waiting until January 2012 to start writing again, so the 200 page count fits with that. I think he'll get more into it once con season slows down a bit. And if he plans 3 years in advance, I'm sure he cut his number of appearances this year due to obligations. I would hope.

But back to what you said, I really hope we get major, major milestones in Winds. I would hate for GRRM to pull a Stephen King and wait until the last chapter of his series to suddenly start killing important characters on a far more regular basis. I want to see Euron again and hopefully find out what happened with Balon.

I think 2014 is a good target for Winds. There's pretty much no way two more books is going to be enough, though. There are simply too many dangling threads and characters, and not enough space to resolve everything in. Martin has said that the Storm/Dance length is about the maximum that his publishers will allow for one book, so it's not like he can just write even longer books.

Reluctantly agree with you. I won't be shocked if he announces that he's increased the series by one book.

 

[Basileus777]

I think 2014 is a good target for Winds. There's pretty much no way two more books is going to be enough, though. There are simply too many dangling threads and characters, and not enough space to resolve everything in. Martin has said that the Storm/Dance length is about the maximum that his publishers will allow for one book, so it's not like he can just write even longer books.

He wants to write more books in this world after ASOIAF. He could just pull an Erikson and leave those threads dangling.


Not that I think it's likely given how he's turned into a perfectionist.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I definitely think TWOW will be a milestone, eventful book. Not to say AFFC/ADWD were not eventful, but they were clearly transitional novels; the board was being reset for the second phase of the war in the North, Lannister Tyrell confrontations, the rise of Aegon, and the political education of Dany among other things. The chapters we've gotten so far for TWOW are prologues to huge battles, and one is the aftermath of an off screen battle: (TWOW spoiler)

Spoiler

Aegon taking Storm's Landing

 

[apana]

If I had to pick a year I would say that Winds of Winter is released in 2016 and A Dream of Spring (the final book) in 2020. I expect both to be the longest books in the series just cause I think he wants to finish it in seven books. The show will end with Winds of Winter, that is more than enough for me. My guess is that 30-40 years down the line this show will be rebooted and all 7 books will be adapted for a new generation, it is known.

 

[Puddles]

I just read the last hundred pages or so of ASoS again. It's just so good. Mind-blowingly good. Not just as genre fiction, but on a literary level as well.

I get such chills imagining Maisie Williams killing The Tickler, Sophie Turner building Winterfell out of snow, Aidan Gillen pushing Lysa out the Moon Door, Peter Dinklage twisting the necklace into Shae's throat and then firing the crossbow to kill his father.

It could possibly be the greatest season of television in history if they pull it off, right up there with The Wire Season 4 and The Shield Season 7.

 

[bengraven]

I definitely think TWOW will be a milestone, eventful book. Not to say AFFC/ADWD were not eventful, but they were clearly transitional novels; the board was being reset for the second phase of the war in the North, Lannister Tyrell confrontations, the rise of Aegon, and the political education of Dany among other things. The chapters we've gotten so far for TWOW are prologues to huge battles, and one is the aftermath of an off screen battle: (TWOW spoiler)

Spoiler

Aegon taking Storm's Landing

Wow, wait, what? I knew we had a Victarion chapter and part of Tyrion's chapter, but I didn't know there was an Aegon chapter?



But yes, we need shocking moments because I can already tell that Winds will likely have a cliffhanger.

 

[Basileus777]

Wow, wait, what? I knew we had a Victarion chapter and part of Tyrion's chapter, but I didn't know there was an Aegon chapter?

It was an Arianne chapter. There's also a Theon one. It's all summarized at the Westeros forums.