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[apana]

Wow, this girl is mad. She's basically saying that you can't like some of the changes but not others. It's all or nothing with her, and that kind of inflexible attitude is why they don't put purists in charge of adaptations. The fact that she says she'd cast characters based on visual appearance before acting ability and background just confirms this. She knows nothing.

I'm kind of glad that George has more outside influences now than just his hardcore fans. I think meeting with the writers of the show, actors, and new fans can help him get a bit of perspective and not be so absorbed within the world.

I'd pay to learn about the conversations George must have had with Linda and Elio when editing the books. "George, excuse me, you forget he is clearly salty and not sandy. How could you say he was sandy George!" Actually something similar happened with a description of a princess. One of the fans emailed Linda and informed her the princess had olive skin and Linda responded that she is described as having milk colored skin in the books. According to her olive skin and milk colored skin is not contradictory, and now she describes it as olive tinted milk colored skin. WTF does that even mean? This is the quote in question and her rude behavior towards fans:

May22012

Oh, now that little thing cropped up again, showing off her lack of reading comprehension.

Princess Nym is described as milk pale in AFfC and olive-skinned in ADwD.

Not exactly a contradiction in terms of lightness vs darkness of skin. You can be pretty darn pale and have an olive undertone instead of a pinkish undertone to your skin.

In fact, I distinctly recall some whining the other week about how I had assumed that olive skin meant a certain range of skin colours. Which I hadn’t, but again, reading comprehension is a scarce commodity for some of the Tumblr things.

Of course, given how the casting has been deteriorating in accuracy for season two, I imagine similar things will happen with season three. Doesn’t change what’s in the books, though. No matter how the social justice idiots are trying to imagine different things than what GRRM has actually written.

I think I'm done with this for now, don't want to hate on anyone, just hope she can get some perspective. There are a lot of new people coming into the fandom who are going to be relying on information from Elio and Linda.

 

[Coop]

She seems crazy. If she hates the show so much why does she do those video podcast? Never seen it before but I've seen the westeros twitter tweet about it.

 

[genjiZERO]

Huh. I've never heard this one before. Care to explain?

Jon's birth is one of the central mysteries of the series. Every account so far has been different. What we know is that he's approximately the same age as Rob (15) but we're not entirely sure. The whole overthrow of the Targaryans seems in part, at least, in response to the "rape" of Lyanna. But the book seems to suggest that she and Rhaegar were in fact lovers. Thus, "rape" means "to take" as in the "rape of Helen of Troy" sense, and not in the "violate sexually" sense. It seems to me that it's at least plausible that Jon was found by Ned who swore secrecy to protect him - because, remember, the murder of all the Targaryen children was ordered, also Robert was in love with Lyanna, and Ned was likely worried about how House Lannister would react. Of course, Jon looks like a Stark, but that doesn't necessarily mean he looks like Ned... It also seems plausible, because as a plot detail, Danny is going to somehow have to "forgive" House Stark for the murder of her family.

 

[3rdman]

Huh. I've never heard this one before. Care to explain?

It's actually a well-trodden theory.

Spoiler

As it goes, Lyanna and Rhaegar were actually in love and in the Tower of Joy, Jon was born. Lyanna begs Ned to keep her promise and never tell Jon who his real parents were...Ned returns from the war with Jon and tells Cat that he's his bastard. GOT is full of these hints as Ned is constantly reminded of the promise he made to his sister.

 

[PhoenixDark]

She seems crazy. If she hates the show so much why does she do those video podcast? Never seen it before but I've seen the westeros twitter tweet about it.

They do it for site hits, and their site is quite popular. I really like a lot of their book related stuff (everyone should check out the ADWD and TWOW forums), and have agreed with SOME of their show complaints (usually technical/production related ones). But overall Westeros is clearly their life, they feel like they own it alongside Martin. If you cannot objectively watch the show, I'd rather not listen to nit picking nonsense. Martin wrote the damn stuff and doesn't have a problem with the show

"his eyes are wrong!"

 

[Maffis]

How so? His character arc in SOS and involves him being maimed and having the one thing he's good at taken away from him. How does killing a distant relative who he didn't know take away from that?

So you think the plotlines with him saving Brienne and slowly starting to admire her, the fact that he wants to help Catelyn's kids by sending out Brienne to look for them, by actually giving away one of the swords made of Ned's sword Ice and everything else he does like getting Riverrun to peacefully surrender, saving the Tully that was captured and everything else he does... and he never killed anyone ruthlessly. The Bran thing was the only really evil thing he did, but his inner monologues took up a lot of time for that too.

He was definitely about redemption.

Also, that relative was a kin, which makes him a kinslayer. Even Jaime would be too proud to do something like that to tarnish the last of his pride and reputation he's got.

 

[Zabka]

So you think the plotlines with him saving Brienne and slowly starting to admire her, the fact that he wants to help Catelyn's kids by sending out Brienne to look for them, by actually giving away one of the swords made of Ned's sword Ice and everything else he does like getting Riverrun to peacefully surrender, saving the Tully that was captured and everything else he does...

He was definitely about redemption.

Is that a question? How does killing his cousin affect those things?

 

[platypotamus]

the first four or five books are pretty damn good, then they go into a longgggg lull where barely anything happens, then books 10 - 12 pick up the pace again. I've read them all, so I'd recommend it to anyone, and Mat is my favorite character in any book series ever.

Kind of comforted, I'm on book 9 and bored out of my skull.

Though I didn't enjoy the first 4 or 5 as much as you seem to have either.

 

[Lirlond]

Kind of comforted, I'm on book 9 and bored out of my skull.

Though I didn't enjoy the first 4 or 5 as much as you seem to have either.

Books 8 and 9 are the worst in the series. 10 is still kind of slow, but shit starts happening again. 11/12/13 are good.

 

[i_am_ben]

How are the Wheel of Time books? Would you recommend those to an ASOIF fan?

There are like 13 WoT books. Enough to keep me busy for a few months...

I personally love WoT.

WoT is godly if you like reading fan debates and thousands and thousands of prophecies. It's world is a lot more detailed than ASOIAF.

However, it's copped immense criticism due to its slower pace and its story which grinds to a halt in books 8,9 and 10 so you may not like it.

You might also dislike the casual blunt misandry that permeates most female POVs. Gender power dynamics are quite different in WoT.

 

[Lirlond]

The misandry makes sense. Its overplayed a lot, but it makes sense in the world.

Edit: anyone know what's happening with the EotW film?

 

[Rei_Toei]

Re-reading the books for the first time, just finished A Clash of Kings and around a 100 pages in A Storm of Swords. Some random thoughts:

1) I'm quite curious what this specific part of the Undying prophecy is:

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright on his dead face, gray lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness...mother of dragons...bride of death...

Sounds like a wight, but except Coldhands most Wights don't seem to be capable of sailing. Euron seems heading Dany's way, but doesn't really sound like the kind of dude smiling sadly.

2) I kinda forgot/am wondering what House Tyrell's plans with Sansa were. When they tried to arrange a marriage between her and Willas. That would place here on the side of the heir of the house, but with Arya missing and Rickon/Robb presumed dead, she'd also be the only Stark still around other then Robb. Depending on how much intel the Tyrells had at that point, they might've figured out Robb was FUBAR and Sansa their best bet at getting Winterfell/the North. I think the hole Reach/Highgarden/Oldtown region and clans are pretty interesting and just like the Vale/Eyrie I wouldn't mind them getting more involved.

3) Just read about Jojen telling Bran he might be able to skinchange into all kinds of animals some day. I wonder if this means Bran might play a role in taming or controlling Dany's dragons. Whether with her consent or without it.

It's fun to re-read

 

[Snake]

Re-reading the books for the first time, just finished A Clash of Kings and around a 100 pages in A Storm of Swords. Some random thoughts:

1) I'm quite curious what this specific part of the Undying prophecy is:

Sounds like a wight, but except Coldhands most Wights don't seem to be capable of sailing. Euron seems heading Dany's way, but doesn't really sound like the kind of dude smiling sadly

"A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright on his dead face, gray lips smiling sadly"

Sounds like it could be talking about Jon Connington, who is suffering from grayscale. And relevant to Dany because of Aegon.

"A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness."

This, I believe, is Jon Snow. The sweet air might refer to his death, as corpses are often said to have a sickeningly sweet stench.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Re-reading the books for the first time, just finished A Clash of Kings and around a 100 pages in A Storm of Swords. Some random thoughts:

1) I'm quite curious what this specific part of the Undying prophecy is:

Sounds like a wight, but except Coldhands most Wights don't seem to be capable of sailing. Euron seems heading Dany's way, but doesn't really sound like the kind of dude smiling sadly.

3) Just read about Jojen telling Bran he might be able to skinchange into all kinds of animals some day. I wonder if this means Bran might play a role in taming or controlling Dany's dragons. Whether with her consent or without it.

It's fun to re-read

Holy fucking shit. I never thought of that. It HAS to happen. OMG.

 

[Rei_Toei]

"A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright on his dead face, gray lips smiling sadly"

Sounds like it could be talking about Jon Connington. And relevant to Dany because of Aegon.

"A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness."

This, I believe, is Jon Snow. The sweet air might refer to his death, as corpses are often said to have a sickeningly sweet stench.

Ah, that makes sense, forgot about his greyscale sickness.

 

[AngryMoth]

JonCon don't smile! Sounds like resurrected Jon Snow to me.

 

[tmdorsey]

Was reading one of the other ASOIF threads and I've decided that I'm really ready for the White Walkers and Others to invade and make their presence widely known. I wonder if GRMM will even be able to get to that in TWOW.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

Re-reading the books for the first time, just finished A Clash of Kings and around a 100 pages in A Storm of Swords. Some random thoughts:

1) I'm quite curious what this specific part of the Undying prophecy is:
A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright on his dead face, gray lips smiling sadly.

Its possible that could refer to Victarion "Grey-Joy" coming to Dany on his ship. Play on words being Greyjoy of course.

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness...mother of dragons...bride of death...

The blue flower is clearly the symbol of Lyanna and the blue flower stuck in the Wall, seems to refer to Jon.

3) Just read about Jojen telling Bran he might be able to skinchange into all kinds of animals some day. I wonder if this means Bran might play a role in taming or controlling Dany's dragons. Whether with her consent or without it.

Considering Bran is all tree-Bran now, and has already warged into Hodor, I'm guessing he'll start warging into other things too. Why not dragons?

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Ok, so maybe I'm really stupid, but one thing I've never quite understood is the difference between "the others" and the wights. Are they one and the same? Have "the others" actually been featured in the books yet.

It wasn't until the end of SOS that I noticed people started referring to them separately.

 

[electroshockwave]

It's actually a well-trodden theory.

Spoiler

As it goes, Lyanna and Rhaegar were actually in love and in the Tower of Joy, Jon was born. Lyanna begs Ned to keep her promise and never tell Jon who his real parents were...Ned returns from the war with Jon and tells Cat that he's his bastard. GOT is full of these hints as Ned is constantly reminded of the promise he made to his sister.

I don't think the promise was to never tell Jon who his real parents were but to raise and protect Jon. And to do that he had lie about his parentage, especially to Robert who might have wanted him dead like Aegon and Rhaenys.

Ok, so maybe I'm really stupid, but one thing I've never quite understood is the difference between "the others" and the wights. Are they one and the same? Have "the others" actually been featured in the books yet.

It wasn't until the end of SOS that I noticed people started referring to them separately.

The others are in the GOT prologue and the first Sam chapter of SOS where he kills one. The wights are the dead men raised by the others. Waymar Royce turned into one in the GOT prologue and John kills one that attacks Lord Commander Mormont.

 

[tmdorsey]

Ok, so maybe I'm really stupid, but one thing I've never quite understood is the difference between "the others" and the wights. Are they one and the same? Have "the others" actually been featured in the books yet.

It wasn't until the end of SOS that I noticed people started referring to them separately.

I think the Others are the white-walkers and Wights are the zombies. I referred to them incorrectly in my post.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Wait, I thought the white-walkers were the zombies. :s

 

[Duki]

why do people keep saying they dont expect the show to be around?

its expensive to make, but hbo has gone on the record to say that the show is actually insanely profitable for them

this and true blood make them half their money these days

 

[Ikael]

She, along with her partner Elio, run Westeros.org, which is the largest ASOIAF site on the web. Both of them assisted in editing A Dance with Dragons and have also been "continuity checkers" for GRRM in the past (he would email them with questions about minor details, to make sure he got them right across each book). They are also writing an ASOIAF encyclopedia called The World of Ice and Fire. They have also consulted on various ASOIAF/GoT projects over the past few years. So they are pretty well-connected and important members of the fandom.

That would explain a lot, considering that the editing of AFFC and ADWD was atrocious. I would gladly pay good money for a properly edited version of said two books.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

Wait, I thought the white-walkers were the zombies. :s

The Others (the show calls them White Walkers) are the guys that sound kind of like Ice Nazgul in the books. They're the ones in the very first chapter of Game of Thrones. Wights are people or creatures that have been killed by an Other and are then raised from the dead as basically Ice Zombies. They're basically the minions/cannon fodder for the Others/White Walkers.

 

[AngryMoth]

That would explain a lot, considering that the editing of AFFC and ADWD was atrocious. I would gladly pay good money for a properly edited version of said two books.

I think they were more there for the fact checking and continuity purposes rather than actually making creative decisions, the blame doesn't lie with them. But yes, his editors really messed up ADWD in particular

 

[Duane Cunningham]

"A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright on his dead face, gray lips smiling sadly"

Sounds like it could be talking about Jon Connington, who is suffering from grayscale. And relevant to Dany because of Aegon.

Its possible that could refer to Victarion "Grey-Joy" coming to Dany on his ship. Play on words being Greyjoy of course.

Hey, maybe it's just talking about The Sailor. As in, that hooker's husband who was lost at sea. The Sailor's Wife: the whore in Bravvos who always marries her johns first every night. Also, Tyrion's favorite uncle was lost at sea, maybe that's the same guy (whether or not he's also the corpse in Dany's vision).

But on the other hand, I've also seen the theory that Tyrion's wife IS the Sailor's Wife. She remarries every night because of her childhood trauma at the hands of the Lannisters.

 

[apana]

It's interesting to think about what the names of the characters mean and what they reveal about them.

Meera means light or saintly woman.

Asha means hope or life.

Bran means crow.

The Targaryen names in particular are interesting. I had a hard time figuring out what Rhaegar meant until I realized that Rhae was just a variant of Rhea which means "flowing". Rhaegar's blood flowed along with the Trident after Robert killed him.

 

[Pecan1]

So I've been sort/ slowly rereading CoK since the beginning of season 2 show and ive just gotten to the Theon chap where he meets his sister.

On there ride back to Pyke or w/e they ride a black horse he calls Smiler.

I feel like there was a similar horse that gets found/commandeered by either Jamie or Sandor way later?

I looked on the ASOIAF forum and saw there was another horse called Stranger.

Its just been a huge pest to me all evening weather or not this horse gets to one of the other POVs??

 

[Snake]

So I've been sort/ slowly rereading CoK since the beginning of season 2 show and ive just gotten to the Theon chap where he meets his sister.

On there ride back to Pyke or w/e they ride a black horse he calls Smiler.

I feel like there was a similar horse that gets found/commandeered by either Jamie or Sandor way later?

I looked on the ASOIAF forum and saw there was another horse called Stranger.

Its just been a huge pest to me all evening weather or not this horse gets to one of the other POVs??

Stranger is The Hound's horse. He's mentioned in Arya's ASOS chapters with The Hound, and later in Brienne's AFFC chapter at the Quiet Isle (in the monks' stables). The monks call him Driftwood, not knowing his original name.

Smiler makes his way to Winterfell as Theon's ride, only to be killed during Ramsay's attack.

 

[Pecan1]

Dang, I wanted that horse to make it so bad when i read that.

 

[tmdorsey]

Was I the only one that thought Theon was dead after ACOK?

 

[Victarion]

Can anyone suggest me some books, similar to ASOIAF?

No Tolkien books or Malazan, I've read all those.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Holy fucking shit. I never thought of that. It HAS to happen. OMG.

Too cliche, I hope Bran never wargs into a dragon. Bloodraven has been sharpening his magical powers for over 300 years, therefore, it is cliche for Bran who just realized his powers to become more powerful than Bloodraven in a matter of months.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Was I the only one that thought Theon was dead after ACOK?

I didn't think he was dead after ACOK, but then after two more books of everyone referring to him as dead and nothing that suggested that he was alive, I kind of starting believing that he was dead until he turned up in ADWD.

 

[q_q]

Too cliche, I hope Bran never wargs into a dragon. Bloodraven has been sharpening his magical powers for over 300 years, therefore, it is cliche for Bran who just realized his powers to become more powerful than Bloodraven in a matter of months.

Why do you assume Bloodraven couldn't warg into a dragon if he wanted to? He's also only about 125 according to the wiki.

 

[Pecan1]

Ghost Jon is totally going to warg into a dragon

 

[bengraven]

Sorry to be OT, but I have a question based on the last page of discussion:

How is the Nightangel trilogy? I'm a sucker for omnibus editions and saw the trilogy together at the book store the other day.

 

[Freshmaker]

Sorry to be OT, but I have a question based on the last page of discussion:

How is the Nightangel trilogy? I'm a sucker for omnibus editions and saw the trilogy together at the book store the other day.

It's fun though the pacing gets kinda strange in the third book.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Too cliche, I hope Bran never wargs into a dragon. Bloodraven has been sharpening his magical powers for over 300 years, therefore, it is cliche for Bran who just realized his powers to become more powerful than Bloodraven in a matter of months.

Even if Bran did warg into a dragon, that doesn't mean he could fully control it, not does it mean he would be "more powerful" than Bloodraven, whatever that means.

 

[apana]

Bran is entering his bad boy phase.

 

[ezrarh]

Hodor better be doing his squats/deadlifts.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Bran is entering his bad boy phase.

He looks JUST like one of my old childhood friends in that pic.

 

[siddhu33]

So...
Whats the consensus on the changes done by HBO to the books, when adapting to TV?

 

[meijiko]

So...
Whats the consensus on the changes done by HBO to the books, when adapting to TV?

There's no consensus. Opinions range wildly from "it was necessary and it's still very entertaining" to "it's shit, they shouldn't have changed x."

 

[Iksenpets]

Too cliche, I hope Bran never wargs into a dragon. Bloodraven has been sharpening his magical powers for over 300 years, therefore, it is cliche for Bran who just realized his powers to become more powerful than Bloodraven in a matter of months.

Agree, it is cliche. Though it would seem Bran has to at least be able to do something that Bloodraven can't for Bloodraven to be interested. Unless he just knows he's going to die before the mission is done and Bran was the only possible successor.

Random thought that came to me on Bloodraven: I've never been a big fan of the Varys/Young Griff Blackfyre theories, but if they were true, what if Bloodraven is actually manipulating Bran into doing something to stop Varys and Aegon from putting a Blackfyre on the throne, and doesn't actually care about stopping the Others at all, and may even view them as a useful tool to stop Aegon.

EDIT: As for my thoughts on the show, it's excellent and is probably the best adaptation that could realistically be made. There have been maybe two or three changes that I haven't liked, but there have been more changes that I've actually enjoyed. Also, all of the changes seemed designed in such a way that they're all going to bring all of the characters to the exact same endpoints by the end of Season 2 that they would have been at by the end of Book 2, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that by the end of the seasons changes I don't like will have corrected themselves to fit more with the books.

 

[The Technomancer]

What kind of changes have they made?

 

[AngryMoth]

So...
Whats the consensus on the changes done by HBO to the books, when adapting to TV?

Eh, a few things have bothered me (Jaime killing his cousin, Littlefinger being dumb) but I think they've been about as faithful as the medium allows.

The changes to Dany's story I think are good because it gives it some much needed padding and it will all be wrapped up by the end of the season with no further ramifications.

Jon Snow I'm undecided on at the moment, need to see how the rest of season pans out. I can understand them placing more emphasis on establishing his relationship with Ygritte, but the scenes have been very mediocre I feel.

Arya's story has definitely suffered the most. I don't think they had a choice in killing the tickler really given the size of the cast they're working with, but its a real shame. And they have to have Tywin in this season somewhere and this was a good place to put him, but unfortunately it has distracted them from the tone of Arya's chapters. Hopefully this is something they can make up for next season. Arya's story more than most I feel is all about tone. They could play around with events a lot, but as long as they get the tone right I think it will feel like a faithful adaptation.

I think that covers most of the significent changes so far. Basically, I may get wound up from time to time but I don't think they've fucked anything up yet (except maybe the Hound but thankfully he's actually getting scenes now). Robb getting more screen time which obviously makes sense. Will be interesting to see how they handles Blackwater without the chain. George is writing the episode so I have high hopes!

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Why do you assume Bloodraven couldn't warg into a dragon if he wanted to? He's also only about 125 according to the wiki.

It's simple really. Dragons are the most ferocious beast in the ASoIaF universe, akin to weapons of mass destruction. For that reason I think it is utterly ridiculous to bestow the ability to mind control a dragon to a child.

For example, Varamyr the most powerful warg we know of before Bloodraven can control many small beasts but fails to possess his spearwife, Thistle. Bran on the other hand manages to warg into Hodor, but Hodor has the intelligence of a bloodhound. Quite frankly I don't even think Bran is as capable as Varamyr.

Perhaps Bloodraven can, but Varamyr? Not a chance, therefore the notion that Bran whom just upon discovering his powers with a years worth of practice can surpass the two most powerful wargs we know of is cliche and is poor writing, IMO.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Eh, a few things have bothered me (Jaime killing his cousin, Littlefinger being dumb) but I think they've been about as faithful as the medium allows.

The changes to Dany's story I think are good because it gives it some much needed padding and it will all be wrapped up by the end of the season with no further ramifications.

Jon Snow I'm undecided on at the moment, need to see how the rest of season pans out. I can understand them placing more emphasis on establishing his relationship with Ygritte, but the scenes have been very mediocre I feel.

Arya's story has definitely suffered the most. I don't think they had a choice in killing the tickler really given the size of the cast they're working with, but its a real shame. And they have to have Tywin in this season somewhere and this was a good place to put him, but unfortunately it has distracted them from the tone of Arya's chapters. Hopefully this is something they can make up for next season. Arya's story more than most I feel is all about tone. They could play around with events a lot, but as long as they get the tone right I think it will feel like a faithful adaptation.

I think that covers most of the significent changes so far. Basically, I may get wound up from time to time but I don't think they've fucked anything up yet (except maybe the Hound but thankfully he's actually getting scenes now). Robb getting more screen time which obviously makes sense. Will be interesting to see how they handles Blackwater without the chain. George is writing the episode so I have high hopes!

I don't think we know for sure that the chain is out. Maybe they wanted to keep some of Tyrion's plans a surprise for the viewers.

Very excited for George's writing on it. His episode in season 1 was probably my favorite of that season.