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[apana]

He had the most awesome story arc in Clash of Kings. Don't know what David and Dan are thinking. We only get Qhorin Halfhand for one season and Jon barely gets any bonding time with him.

They really will have to reboot this show years from now in order to do it properly. Unfortunately they will never get another Tyrion or Arya as good as the ones we have now.

 

[Nlroh]

They're adapting his story quite well, Jon has always been the most boring character in the books.

 

[Victarion]

They're adapting his story quite well, Jon has always been the most boring character in the books.

 

[Tucah]

Whats the consensus on Benjen Stark?

I kind of think he's alive - GRRM has kept his fate secret for so long that he had to have done something of note up North.

He could very easily be dead. Just seems like 5 books without answer is a long while for a dead guy.

I always liked the theory that he's Coldhands.

 

[AngryMoth]

I think its too soon to say they've fucked up Jon's story. If he escapes the wildlings and meets up with Qhorin again in the next episode there's still hope. I can understand them wanting to establish his relationship with Ygritte, although personally I wish the scenes had been a bit better.

I always liked the theory that he's Coldhands.

Yeah, every time Coldhands spoke in ADwD I was like, "they're gonna find out he's Benjen, this is going to be awesome..." but it never comes. Kind of a wtf really, makes me think maybe it isn't him because it would have been the perfect time to reintroduce him.

 

[bengraven]

Benjen I think will end up being just a normal wight. Maybe when we see the Others' country/palace/caverns he'll be there.

Coldhands though comes off like a wight, but it doesn't make sense that something under Other control would take Bran to the Children.

Unless my theory of the children and the Others secretly working together has some truth.

They're adapting his story quite well, Jon has always been the most boring character in the books.

He's not the most interesting character but he has one of the best stories. His side will end up being the most epic shit you've seen, I promise.

 

[ahoyhoy]

I always liked the theory that he's Coldhands.

Yeah, I just kind of assumed he was one of the Nights Watchmen based on his description, and it makes sense if it's Benjen since we still haven't heard anything about his fate. I'm sure the Green Seers played a hand in ensuring that he didn't succumb completely to wightism.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Yeah, "Benjen = Coldhands" is a theory I subscribe to. That said, it might be a little bit TOO obvious.

 

[Tuck]

I always liked the theory that he's Coldhands.

Wouldn't Bran recognize him then?

EDIT: Oh he shielded his face.

 

[electroshockwave]

Wouldn't Bran recognize him then?

I don't think he shows his face.

 

[ZeroRay]

Coldhands is the Night King.

Benjen is somewhere else...

 

[Freshmaker]

They're adapting his story quite well, Jon has always been the most boring character in the books.

Who is the most exciting? Sansa?

 

[ZeroRay]

Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy, obviously.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Yeah, every time Coldhands spoke in ADwD I was like, "they're gonna find out he's Benjen, this is going to be awesome..." but it never comes. Kind of a wtf really, makes me think maybe it isn't him because it would have been the perfect time to reintroduce him.

I was a fan of that theory until they said that Coldhands had been dead a very long time.

 

[KingK]

Yeah, "Benjen = Coldhands" is a theory I subscribe to. That said, it might be a little bit TOO obvious.

Yeah, when I first read ASOS and got to Coldhands I instantly thought it was obviously Benjen, but after ADWD I'm not quite as confident.

 

[Freshmaker]

Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy, obviously.

Or that prince guy who got BBQ'ed. Electrifying!

 

[CassSept]

Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy, obviously.

Yeah, close, but you've misspelled Areo Hotah.

I was a fan of that theory until they said that Coldhands had been dead a very long time.

Depends how long they meant. 3 years is enough for body to decay, eh?

 

[AngryMoth]

Yeah, close, but you've misspelled Areo Hotah.

I wonder about Aeo Hotah if GRRM didn't go with a Doran pov soley because he didn't want to reveal he was a targ supporter until 'that' line. Still I'm thankful for not having to read about how much much pain he is in from a first person perspective

 

[Binabik15]

Aero Hotah and Victarion are awesome. Real manly men doing manly things instead of scheming, raping, crying, etc.

The worst POV is Cersei. You find out that the cold, calculating queen that has her king do her bidding and even has him killed is a batshit crazy, inept bitch. She's so annoying and even worse at ruling than Dany. Dany is unsure and slow to act, Cersei jumps at every shadow (and has said shadow killed, raped and burned). She is also one of the very best POVs.

Jon is good, but the insane love some fans have for him and chosen one prophecies make me like him less than I would in a vacuum.

 

[electroshockwave]

Aero Hotah and Victarion are awesome. Real manly men doing manly things instead of scheming, raping, crying, etc.

The worst POV is Cersei. You find out that the cold, calculating queen that has her king do her bidding and even has him killed is a batshit crazy, inept bitch. She's so annoying and even worse at ruling than Dany. Dany is unsure and slow to act, Cersei jumps at every shadow (and has said shadow killed, raped and burned). She is also one of the very best POVs.

Jon is good, but the insane love some fans have for him and chosen one prophecies make me like him less than I would in a vacuum.

Areo does nothing (apart from when he killed Arys Oakheart but that was from someone else's perspective so my point still stands). His chapters might as well have been from the perspective of one of the walls for all he does. The Dornish chapters should have been reworked to be solely from Arianne's POV.

 

[CassSept]

Aero Hotah and Victarion are awesome. Real manly men doing manly things instead of scheming, raping, crying, etc.

But what does he do? Sure, he slices down Arys Oakheart, but apart from that? His first chapter is just him staring at children playing in the water and several Sand Snakes coming to Martell. Similar in the second, where his only purpose is already stated within first few lines of the chapter (and even in the title). He just witnesses the scheming between Doran, Arianne and the Sand Snakes. And while that was an interesting chapter, Areo did nothing at all.

At least after Aeron's chapter I absolutely loathed the character. After Areo's, I felt nothing. I can't say anything about the character except, err, he is pretty old I guess and an excellent fighter. No characterization besides that at all.

Edit: Beaten while I was checking if I'm remembering it right or am forgetting any scene with Areo. Turns out not.

 

[AngryMoth]

Areo does nothing (apart from when he killed Arys Oakheart but that was from someone else's perspective so my point still stands). His chapters might as well have been from the perspective of one of the walls for all he does. The Dornish chapters should have been reworked to be solely from Arianne's POV.

Pretty much. I don't remember the quote but at the end of his last (most recent?) chapter GRRM even goes to the lengths of having Doran point out to the reader what a mindless drone Areo is. He really is just a device for showing us the Martells.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Yeah, close, but you've misspelled Areo Hotah.

Depends how long they meant. 3 years is enough for body to decay, eh?

I took the line as many many years, but I guess it's still possible.

Areo is just a set of eyes for the audience, there is no character there at all.

 

[TheGoldenGunman]

The worst POV is Cersei. You find out that the cold, calculating queen that has her king do her bidding and even has him killed is a batshit crazy, inept bitch. She's so annoying and even worse at ruling than Dany. Dany is unsure and slow to act, Cersei jumps at every shadow (and has said shadow killed, raped and burned). She is also one of the very best POVs.

I actually think Cersei has some of the best POV's in the series. She is clearly one of the most dislikable people in Westeros, but her POV's make for hilarious and fascinating reading. I laughed so many times when reading what she *actually* thought of someone she had just spoken politely too. It really gives the reader an insight into how two-faced and paranoid she is, and just what lengths she will go to to stay in power. I think this is something GRRM does really well, he manages to tell both sides of the story really well.

 

[Frost_Ace]

Cersei povs are amazing, best part of affc to be sure.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Cersei povs are amazing, best part of affc to be sure.

Best part of AFFC is The Blackfish.

Don't try to deny it.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The Child of the Forest that Bran meets says Coldhands has been dead for a very long time. Considering the Child is thousands of years old, I'm assuming "a long time" to her must mean a lot more than the 2-4 years Benjen has presumably been dead.

I like the idea of him being far in Other territory, but I just don't know how realistic it would be. Bran and company barely survived a number of miles beyond the Wall, how could Benjen survive in the Land Of Always Winter or whatever it's called, where the Others most likely live.

Perhaps he's at Hardholme? It's the only place outside of the Cave where characters currently are

 

[elrechazado]

The Child of the Forest that Bran meets says Coldhands has been dead for a very long time. Considering the Child is thousands of years old, I'm assuming "a long time" to her must mean a lot more than the 2-4 years Benjen has presumably been dead.

I like the idea of him being far in Other territory, but I just don't know how realistic it would be. Bran and company barely survived a number of miles beyond the Wall, how could Benjen survive in the Land Of Always Winter or whatever it's called, where the Others most likely live.

Perhaps he's at Hardholme? It's the only place outside of the Cave where characters currently are

Bran and co not surviving doesn't mean that someone like benjen couldn't. There are tens of thousands of wildlings out there for thousands of years having basically a civilization after all.

 

[TheGoldenGunman]

Cold Hands I think will end up being the Night's King, or rather what's left of him:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Night's_King

Benjen Stark I believe will turn up at The Land of Always Winter, possibly even as a POV in TWOW. Martin has already said that we will explore this location in the new book, and has hinted that someone will be returning as a POV too. My theory is that he escaped / was captured by The Others and ended up finding where they exist.

 

[AngryMoth]

Benjen Stark I believe will turn up at The Land of Always Winter, possibly even as a POV in TWOW. Martin has already said that we will explore this location in the new book, and has hinted that someone will be returning as a POV too. My theory is that he escaped / was captured by The Others and ended up finding where they exist.

I believe Martin is quoted as saying there will be no new povs in the series (thank goodness), although Benjen would make for a fucking amazing prologue/epilogue.

 

[LegendofJoe]

The Child of the Forest that Bran meets says Coldhands has been dead for a very long time. Considering the Child is thousands of years old, I'm assuming "a long time" to her must mean a lot more than the 2-4 years Benjen has presumably been dead.

I like the idea of him being far in Other territory, but I just don't know how realistic it would be. Bran and company barely survived a number of miles beyond the Wall, how could Benjen survive in the Land Of Always Winter or whatever it's called, where the Others most likely live.

Perhaps he's at Hardholme? It's the only place outside of the Cave where characters currently are

I think Hardhome is the last place Benjen could conceivably show up at, I have no idea though what POV would be used to show what's going on there? Perhaps the prologue or epilogue in Winds of Winter?

Edit: haha, moth and I both came to the same conclusion, great minds think alike I guess.

 

[Iksenpets]

Best part of AFFC is The Blackfish.

Don't try to deny it.

Blackfish's speech to Jaime, the reveal of Doran's master plan, and Cersei's arest by the faith tie for best AFFC moments for me.

I agree that the Dornish chapters should have been reworked to be entirely from Arianne's POV. There was no reason to be in Areo and Arys' heads when every single event in the Dornish line could've been witnessed by Arianne. Additionally, Quentyn POV should've been cut entirely in DWD and just told to us secondhand, either by Quentyn himself talking to Dany or by one of his friends talking to Selmy after he's dead.

And I don't think Coldhands is Benjen. It would be a waste of Benjen to have him turned into a personality-less pawn of Bloodraven. I think Benjen is still alive, somehow and Coldhands is just a random Black Brother.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I believe Martin is quoted as saying there will be no new povs in the series (thank goodness), although Benjen would make for a fucking amazing prologue/epilogue.

I don't think he meant to include prologue/epilogue characters when he made that comment.

The prologue and epilogue chapters are among my favorites in the series.

 

[AngryMoth]

I don't think he meant to include prologue/epilogue characters when he made that comment.

The prologue and epilogue chapters are among my favorites in the series.

Yeah that's what I meant, he couldn't be a main pov but he could still pop up for a prologue. Would be sad to see him brought back and then killed off again so quickly though. Thinking about prologues, how awesome would it be if Martin picked a fan favorite character for the last prologue and broke convention by having them narrowly avoid death at the end, or would that be cheesy?

 

[Tuck]

Cersei povs are amazing, best part of affc to be sure.

Nah. Arya was the best part of AFFC.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Yeah that's what I meant, he couldn't be a main pov but he could still pop up for a prologue. Would be sad to see him brought back and then killed off again so quickly though. Thinking about prologues, how awesome would it be if Martin picked a fan favorite character for the last prologue and broke convention by having them narrowly avoid death at the end, or would that be cheesy?

Martin is rarely cheesy. However, fans will cry cheese because they have it in their heads that every prologue character must die. I don't subscribe to that, like I don't subscribe to the alternating theory. In Martin I trust.

 

[28 Posts Later]

fans will cry cheese because they have it in their heads that every prologue character must die. I don't subscribe to that

How can you not subscribe to that train of thought when every prologue character in the series so far has died...? It's tradition at this point - there's no evidence to support the idea prologue characters do not die.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

How can you not subscribe to that train of thought when every prologue character in the series so far has died...? It's tradition at this point.

Because the series isn't over and it might be different in tWoW and ADoS.

 

[AngryMoth]

How can you not subscribe to that train of thought when every prologue character in the series so far has died...? It's tradition at this point - there's no evidence to support the idea prologue characters do not die.

Yeah, I just thought it would be a nice way to play with peoples expectations for the last book

 

[TheGoldenGunman]

I believe Martin is quoted as saying there will be no new povs in the series (thank goodness), although Benjen would make for a fucking amazing prologue/epilogue.

My understanding was that Martin said that there would be no POV's for new characters, which might cryptically mean that a returning character might get a POV - hence Benjen Stark. However, I may have misinterpreted the statement.

Failing that, he could still appear as part of another character's POV, most likely Bran, but conceivably Jon Snow as well. I just don't think he's dead, and I think turning up in The Land of Always Winter will be a reasonable explanation as to why we haven't heard from him since Game of Thrones. I have a feeling we'll learn a little about The Others as a race / civilization to flesh them out instead of just being "the big bad."

That said the series has far too many characters and POV's right now. There are also just too many characters that are uninteresting or end up being useless. Personally I felt really aggrieved by what happened to Quentyn Martell. As a reader, you put so much time and investment into finding about him and he just ends up as Dragon snacks. In fact of the Martells, only Doran and Oberyn (RIP) really strike me as interesting. I really hope they do something of interest in the next book!

Aeron and Asha Greyjoy are also uninteresting to me. I feel like they have the awesome potential to do something amazing, but right now they just seem like deadwood.

 

[Chris R]

Don't want to load up on spoilers in the other thread so ill just post it here As soon as the scene cut to Dany I started to scream at the TV that there wasn't enough time to show the house of the undying stuff tonight. Wonder if they show it next week or wait until the week after.

 

[Basileus777]

Don't want to load up on spoilers in the other thread so ill just post it here As soon as the scene cut to Dany I started to scream at the TV that there wasn't enough time to show the house of the undying stuff tonight. Wonder if they show it next week or wait until the week after.

They'll probably end the season with it. It will definitely be in episode 10.

 

[Cornballer]

Yeah, it's in the last episode. The loglines in the OP lay it out - next week is Blackwater and pretty much everything else is going in the finale.

 

[Pecan1]

So is that whore that gets married to her johns before she bangs Tyrions wife?

 

[bengraven]

Basically confirmed many of our suspicions that Ros is there in place of Chataya (sp?).

 

[Tuck]

I don't think I want Benjen to become POV. I'd rather he just pop up in someone elses story - Bran or Jon (If he is still alive). I agree with whoever said that he is probably in the Land of Always Winter. I'm sure he would have some interesting information to share if that is the case.

That said the series has far too many characters and POV's right now. There are also just too many characters that are uninteresting or end up being useless. Personally I felt really aggrieved by what happened to Quentyn Martell. As a reader, you put so much time and investment into finding about him and he just ends up as Dragon snacks. In fact of the Martells, only Doran and Oberyn (RIP) really strike me as interesting. I really hope they do something of interest in the next book!

Aeron and Asha Greyjoy are also uninteresting to me. I feel like they have the awesome potential to do something amazing, but right now they just seem like deadwood.

He sort of lost control with the POVs.

As someone mentioned, ALL of the Dorne POVs should have been done through Adrianne - any other Dorne events should not have been shown in detail. For Iron Islands, the POVs should have been Asha *or* Victorian. That right there simplifies things.

The occasional POV change is alright - I enjoyed Melisandre's greatly (Though one could argue that she should have been kept mysterious).

EDIT: Prologue/epilogue characters die. Always. I *highly* doubt that will change.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Basically confirmed many of our suspicions that Ros is there in place of Chataya (sp?).

And her daughter, combined into Ros.

 

[sssstententen]

Long time fan.

Anywho, what I think are necessary POV's in the books going forward:
Jon (if alive)
Dany
Arya
Victarion
Tyrion
Jaime
Cersei (I wish not but yeah)
J. Connington
Bran
Edit: Sansa

Unless I'm forgetting a major character (which I could be, I finished ADWD awhile ago) those are the only remaining interesting characters that should have a voice.

I cannot stand Reek/Theon, Asha bores me, so do the Martells (I was so glad Quentyn died).

On the other hand, I fucking love Barristan's POV's, and they really were a huge factor in keeping the momentum going in the last quarter of the book, but his importatnce is not that great, especially with Tyrion and soon Victarion coming into Slavers Bay, we'll have plenty of coverage.

 

[bengraven]

And her daughter, combined into Ros.

Well I meant her daughter more, I confused the names, but you're right. She's basically both.

AND HEY GUYS SHE'S WHITE - LOOK THEY CAN MAKE BLACK CHARACTERS WHITE TOO.

Long time fan.

Anywho, what I think are necessary POV's in the books going forward:
Jon (if alive)
Dany
Arya
Victarion
Tyrion
Jaime
Cersei (I wish not but yeah)
J. Connington
Bran

Unless I'm forgetting a major character (which I could be, I finished ADWD awhile ago) those are the only remaining interesting characters that should have a voice.

I cannot stand Reek/Theon, Asha bores me, so do the Martells (although I was so glad Quentyn died).

On the other hand, I fucking love Barristan's POV's, and they really were a huge factor in keeping the momentum going in the last quarter of the book, but his importatnce is not that great, especially with Tyrion and soon Victarion coming into Slavers Bay, we'll have plenty of coverage.

Sansa. We need her because Littlefinger has some epic plans already, I can tell you that.

 

[sssstententen]

Sansa. We need her because Littlefinger has some epic plans already, I can tell you that.

I swear I had Sansa in there somewhere. But yeah, her as well. Any of the remaining Starks (barring Rickon of course) should be included.