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[Tuck]

Someone mentioned Littlefinger having awesome plans.

Which leads me to a question.

Can someone please explain what little fingers game is? I don't get it.

He betrays Ned... only to help his daughter? He gets Lysa to kill her husband, then blame it on the Lannisters? I thought Jon got killed because he discovered the truth about the Lannisters. So why would Littlefinger remove him from the equation, only to re-point the finger at the Lannisters?

Its very confusing. I guess not all of his plan is revealed yet - but I'm confused.

Oh and while I'm asking questions and looking like a total fool who doesn't pay attention while reading, a question about Tyrion.

Tyrion suggests Aegon go west, then laughs about it, and calls him a fool when he hears they did just that. Why?

I cannot stand Reek/Theon, Asha bores me, so do the Martells (I was so glad Quentyn died).

I love the Theon chapters! They're great! He made Theon a very interesting character.

Reek, Reek, it rhymes with freak.

 

[Iksenpets]

I don't think I want Benjen to become POV. I'd rather he just pop up in someone elses story - Bran or Jon (If he is still alive). I agree with whoever said that he is probably in the Land of Always Winter. I'm sure he would have some interesting information to share if that is the case.



He sort of lost control with the POVs.

As someone mentioned, ALL of the Dorne POVs should have been done through Adrianne - any other Dorne events should not have been shown in detail. For Iron Islands, the POVs should have been Asha *or* Victorian. That right there simplifies things.

The occasional POV change is alright - I enjoyed Melisandre's greatly (Though one could argue that she should have been kept mysterious).

EDIT: Prologue/epilogue characters die. Always. I *highly* doubt that will change.

Melisandre and Barristan were really good as new POVs. Melisandre is the only one-off character that I think has worked well, and that's really only because you were so familiar with her already by the time her POV popped up. And who knows, she may have more POV time as our only eyes on the wall during whatever period Jon is incapacitated.

And as many Greyjoy POVs as there were, I can at least understand the impulse there. Asha, Victarion and Aeron all end up splitting up, with Asha becoming our eyes in Stannis' camp, Victarion sailing to Meereen and Aeron presumably becoming our eyes on the Iron Isles and whatever Euron is up to there. I guess Asha could conceivably been cut, and we could just not meet up with Stannis until Theon meets up with him, but Theon doesn't seem long for this world, so Asha may end up being necessary there soon. If Theon ends up surviving or if Davos quickly reunites with Stannis in Winds, then I'll say Asha was unnecessary and should have been cut, but for now I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume that Asha and Aeron are going to be eyes on some critical events.

The Dornish bloat is a way bigger offender than the overabundance of Greyjoy, which is sad because I really like the Dornish characters, with the exception of Quentyn.

 

[bengraven]

Saw this on Tumblr/Twitter:

If anyone spoils Game of Thrones, I’ll rip your head off and eat it like Tyrion does to Hodor in book five.

Was going to post this at the show thread, but those little babies would probably be like "OH GOD WHAT IF HE IIIISN'T KIDDING?!". ha

 

[Iksenpets]

Saw this on Tumblr/Twitter:



Was going to post this at the show thread, but those little babies would probably be like "OH GOD WHAT IF HE IIIISN'T KIDDING?!". ha

I've been trying to convince all my non-book reader friends that Jon's mom is time-traveling Sansa and that Joffrey dies when Tyrion discovers the secret of tallness potion, but brews it too strong and grows giant, accidentally squishing Joffrey in the process. So far no one's had a neurotic episode trying to decide if I'm lying or not.

 

[Zabka]

Someone mentioned Littlefinger having awesome plans.

Which leads me to a question.

Can someone please explain what little fingers game is? I don't get it.

He betrays Ned... only to help his daughter? He gets Lysa to kill her husband, then blame it on the Lannisters? I thought Jon got killed because he discovered the truth about the Lannisters. So why would Littlefinger remove him from the equation, only to re-point the finger at the Lannisters?

Its very confusing. I guess not all of his plan is revealed yet - but I'm confused.

He's in love with Cat. Ned was in the way. He had Jon Arryn killed then had Lysa send the letter to blame the Lannisters, drawing Ned to King's Landing.

From there he made smart use of certain opportunities, like Robert's death and the subsequent grab for power. Before Ned could leave he teased him with some info, told him the City Watch had his back and then let him march into the Throne Room to be humiliated.

With Cat gone Sansa is the next best thing. He also managed to get himself a shitload of land in the process.

 

[Basileus777]

Littlefinger was causing chaos and war to give himself opportunities for self-advancement. Along the way he fucked with some people he has grudges with (the Starks, Tyrion etc.). But I don't think trying to get Cat back was ever in his plans, he knows that ship has sailed.

 

[TheGoldenGunman]

I think LittleFinger is possibly the most dangerous man in all of Westeros. He is a master manipulator and powermonger and of all the people trying to play "The Game of Thrones," he is the one person who consistently profits and remains in control. He is dangerous because he is a bonafide megalomaniac and it is his thirst for power and control that drives him. His relatively low-born lifestyle whilst always being around the Tully's when growing up has shaped him into the man that he is today. He is already wealthy and has already been elected to the Lord of Harrenhall, yet that did not stop him manipulating his way into becoming Lord of the Vale and I suspect that he will not stop until he is King of Westeros. He only cares about one person - himself, and that's why no one is safe from him.

I have a feeling that Sansa will be his downfall, in that she is learning to play "the game" by watching the master at work firsthand. However, I think he'll get mightliy close to the crown before falling.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

Sansa is surrounded by enough smart people (Tyrion and Cercei) that I don't think Joffrey would be able to lay a hand on her.

Who else will give them a princess with their current status?

Didn't Margaery Tyrell say she would do anything to be the queen?

I was too busy watching Arya avoiding Littlefingers looks, but didn't he and Tywin talk about that? As I said, I didn't really listen to their conversation.

I like how the latter poster in this exchange over in the No Book Spoilers thread somehow magically predicts that the Lannisters will wed Margery to Joffrey eventually. Seems awfully prescient.


Maybe it's a legit prediction, but it definitely set off my radar.

 

[Basileus777]

It's not really much of a leap. That Littlefinger/Margaery scene wasn't exactly subtle.

 

[Angry Grimace]

How can you not subscribe to that train of thought when every prologue character in the series so far has died...? It's tradition at this point - there's no evidence to support the idea prologue characters do not die.

Uh, because Martin is a human being who isn't bound by anything to write anything in particular?

 

[brentech]

I have a feeling that Sansa will be his downfall, in that she is learning to play "the game" by watching the master at work firsthand. However, I think he'll get mightliy close to the crown before falling.

Yeah, I got the feeling that Sansa was starting to understand some of the game, even though sometimes her thoughts are kind of slow to get around to her.

 

[Chris R]

Does Littlefinger even want the crown? I honestly think he would be fine with just the North and the Vale (and Sansa of course).

 

[Dresden]

Does Littlefinger even want the crown? I honestly think he would be fine with just the North and the Vale (and Sansa of course).

I think he'd opt to be the Hand over being the King, tbh. The king of course would be completely powerless and fully in his control.

 

[Chris R]

I think he'd opt to be the Hand over being the King, tbh. The king of course would be completely powerless and fully in his control.

Exactly. I've never thought of him as someone who wants to be the front man wielding the power. He would much rather just control his puppets from the shadows.

 

[28 Posts Later]

Uh, because Martin is a human being who isn't bound by anything to write anything in particular?

It would be illogical to change that tradition now, especially for the sake of a weak 'surprise' for readers of TWoW. Martin has stated, constantly, that he wishes the series to be judged when it is finished. If you're reading the entire series, and after 5 novels a consecutive feature is suddenly altered, it'd come across as an odd decision.

As aforementioned there's no evidence to support the idea [beyond speculation: 'he might do it']. Every prologue character, without exception, has died.

 

[endre]

It would be illogical to change that tradition now, especially for the sake of a weak 'surprise' for readers of TWoW. Martin has stated, constantly, that he wishes the series to be judged when it is finished. If you're reading the entire series, and after 5 novels a consecutive feature is suddenly altered, it'd come across as an odd decision.

As aforementioned there's no evidence to support the idea [beyond speculation: 'he might do it']. Every prologue character, without exception, has died.

If anything I think it would be so much Martin to suddenly change the tradition.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

If anything I think it would be so much Martin to suddenly change the tradition.

Or instead just end it (and every proceeding chapter, naturally, because it's good writing) with "And everything went dark."

OH MY GOSH GUYS DID HE LIVE OR DIE I DON'T KNOW.

 

[AngryMoth]

Or instead just end it (and every proceeding chapter, naturally, because it's good writing) with "And everything went dark."

OH MY GOSH GUYS DID HE LIVE OR DIE I DON'T KNOW.

He got good with that one in ADwD. From the way it was written, I was 90% sure Tyrion was dead. Even came and made a meltdown post about it in this thread! Was listening to the audio book in my kitchen when his next chapter came up and I burst into a spontaneous dance of joy

 

[Prince of Space]

Long time fan.

Anywho, what I think are necessary POV's in the books going forward:
Jon (if alive)
Dany
Arya
Victarion
Tyrion
Jaime
Cersei (I wish not but yeah)
J. Connington
Bran
Edit: Sansa

Unless I'm forgetting a major character (which I could be, I finished ADWD awhile ago) those are the only remaining interesting characters that should have a voice.

I cannot stand Reek/Theon, Asha bores me, so do the Martells (I was so glad Quentyn died).

On the other hand, I fucking love Barristan's POV's, and they really were a huge factor in keeping the momentum going in the last quarter of the book, but his importatnce is not that great, especially with Tyrion and soon Victarion coming into Slavers Bay, we'll have plenty of coverage.

Agreed with this list for the most part (though I love Theon's and Asha's chapters; literally did a fist pump when they reunited at the end of Dance). I was also glad that GRRM killed off Quentyn; the Martells are mildly interesting on their own, but Quentyn's chapters felt about as aimless as Brienne's early chapters in Feast -- you already knew he wasn't going to bring Dany back on his own, and nothing he did was really noteworthy, aside from accidentally releasing the other two dragons, which any other minor character could've done.

 

[desh]

Yeah, Martin loves to make us believe someone is dead. Is there any way that Arya's waterdancer teacher is still alive?

 

[Tuck]

I really love Bran's story. The fact that he sees into the past, calls out to his dad, and his dad reacts was great. Also when he tried contacting Theon, but Theon did not understand and was filled with regret over his actions.

Really well done scenes.

Yeah, Martin loves to make us believe someone is dead. Is there any way that Arya's waterdancer teacher is still alive?

I'm curious about this too. When Arya escaped, I noticed how he never explicitly said Syrio dies. I thought 'Oh, he'll come back later, I'm sure.' But he didn't.

At this point, I think he is dead. But if he DID pop back up, I wouldn't be completely surprised.

 

[endre]

Yeah, Martin loves to make us believe someone is dead. Is there any way that Arya's waterdancer teacher is still alive?

Yes, there is. Hint: faceless man.

Spoiler

Syrio=Jaqen=Pate

EDIT:http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/50468-syrio-forel-jaqen-hghar/

 

[TCRS]

So I just watched the latest episode and you know where Dany says "these are the only children I'll ever have" or something like that... that brought a thought to my mind: once she takes the throne, who is going to be the heir to the throne? At this point we don't know if Jon or that other guy are even her brothers/nephews, so what is the plan? Go through all of that conquering etc, rule for a couple of years and then what? Seems a bit illogical from Danys POV tbh.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

Well, there are some who interpreted a few things from ADwD as hints that her infertility may be over.

 

[CygnusXS]

She doesn't seem to have thought that far ahead. Assuming she were to conquer Westeros and become Queen, so could name anyone she wants as her successor.

Like, maybe Daario, say.

 

[Tuck]

Yes, there is. Hint: faceless man.

Spoiler

Syrio=Jaqen=Pate

EDIT:http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/50468-syrio-forel-jaqen-hghar/

:O

Never even considered this.

 

[elrechazado]

Syrio is not Jaqen - the timeline doesn't work. Jaqen however is probably the alchemist and if he's the alchemist, he's Pate.

 

[jett]

Syrio is dead, people.

 

[endre]

Syrio is dead, people.

For what its worth, of all the theories I think this one is the closest the truth.

 

[Steelyuhas]

So I just watched the latest episode and you know where Dany says "these are the only children I'll ever have" or something like that... that brought a thought to my mind: once she takes the throne, who is going to be the heir to the throne? At this point we don't know if Jon or that other guy are even her brothers/nephews, so what is the plan? Go through all of that conquering etc, rule for a couple of years and then what? Seems a bit illogical from Danys POV tbh.

Won't matter, cause she's going to get Red Wedding'd by the Dornish.

Epic twist. Ship it.

 

[Emerson]

I don't think there's even any question that Jaqen is the Alchemist. Their descriptions in the book are way too similar.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Won't matter, cause she's going to get Red Wedding'd by the Dornish.

Epic twist. Ship it.

Definitely not.

 

[Tucah]

So I just watched the latest episode and you know where Dany says "these are the only children I'll ever have" or something like that... that brought a thought to my mind: once she takes the throne, who is going to be the heir to the throne? At this point we don't know if Jon or that other guy are even her brothers/nephews, so what is the plan? Go through all of that conquering etc, rule for a couple of years and then what? Seems a bit illogical from Danys POV tbh.

Dragons to rule Westeros confirmed.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

Won't matter, cause she's going to get Red Wedding'd by the Dornish.

Epic twist. Ship it.

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

But the Dornish and Doran have to be super pissed. Poor Quentyn goes half way around the world, presents Dany with the previously agreed upon marriage pact and she effectively pulls a Cersei and tears it up in his face.

More likely, the Martells will just get screwed over by siding with Aegon who will turn out to be a fake and Connington will inadvertently spread Greyscale to everyone he comes in contact with. Oops.

But I do want something bad to happen to Dany or the dragons. It seems far to predictable for her to just march back to Westeros with her 3 dragons intact. That dynamic needs to change- or maybe she finally gets to Westeros and the people hate her and love Aegon.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Basically confirmed many of our suspicions that Ros is there in place of Chataya (sp?).

Alayaya, her daughter was the one that got taken by Cersei.

 

[maomaoIYP]

Finally finished marathoning all 5 books. I managed to stay out this thread till now. Love Tyrion, Arya and Jon Snow. Goddamned Daenerys pisses me off. Anyone knows how Brienne survives book 4? I thought she was hanged.

 

[apana]

She got trolled so hard lol

Linda's head was probably exploding as she heard Talisa give her little Volantis story. David and Dan don't know it but they performed an epic troll.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Anyone knows how Brienne survives book 4? I thought she was hanged.

She was given the option to either hang or to kill Jamie. As she was being hanged, she shouted out a single word. Since we see her in DwD, she was either killed and zombified by Thoros, or she agreed to kill Jamie.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

But the Dornish and Doran have to be super pissed. Poor Quentyn goes half way around the world, presents Dany with the previously agreed upon marriage pact and she effectively pulls a Cersei and tears it up in his face.

More likely, the Martells will just get screwed over by siding with Aegon who will turn out to be a fake and Connington will inadvertently spread Greyscale to everyone he comes in contact with. Oops.

But I do want something bad to happen to Dany or the dragons. It seems far to predictable for her to just march back to Westeros with her 3 dragons intact. That dynamic needs to change- or maybe she finally gets to Westeros and the people hate her and love Aegon.

Haha someone else posted that here a few weeks ago and I thought it was awesome. I seriously doubt something like that will happen.

Something has to happen, she has been an exercise in frustration ever since the dragons were born, and she is an entitled, spoiled brat, and it just seems too obvious that she takes the throne.

 

[Tuck]

She was given the option to either hang or to kill Jamie. As she was being hanged, she shouted out a single word. Since we see her in DwD, she was either killed and zombified by Thoros, or she agreed to kill Jamie.

I hope Podrick didn't die... I mean, 99% likely that he did, cause Lady Catelyn became a bit of a heartless bitch, but I hope he lived - I liked him. One of those minor characters that stuck out (Like Ser Kevan Lannister).

 

[Basileus777]

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

But the Dornish and Doran have to be super pissed. Poor Quentyn goes half way around the world, presents Dany with the previously agreed upon marriage pact and she effectively pulls a Cersei and tears it up in his face.

More likely, the Martells will just get screwed over by siding with Aegon who will turn out to be a fake and Connington will inadvertently spread Greyscale to everyone he comes in contact with. Oops.

But I do want something bad to happen to Dany or the dragons. It seems far to predictable for her to just march back to Westeros with her 3 dragons intact. That dynamic needs to change- or maybe she finally gets to Westeros and the people hate her and love Aegon.

I honestly hope the Martells get screwed over, it'd be a fitting price for how inept their scheming has been.

 

[Uriah]

Is there anywhere I can buy a digital copy of the Dunk and Egg stories for my kindle?

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I hope Podrick didn't die... I mean, 99% likely that he did, cause Lady Catelyn became a bit of a heartless bitch, but I hope he lived - I liked him. One of those minor characters that stuck out (Like Ser Kevan Lannister).

I totally forgot that he was hanged.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

She was given the option to either hang or to kill Jamie. As she was being hanged, she shouted out a single word. Since we see her in DwD, she was either killed and zombified by Thoros, or she agreed to kill Jamie.

We never figured out what she yelled though to Zombie Cat though, did we? Maybe it was something that changed Zombie Cat's mind about Jaime?

Or else Brienne won't actually take Jaime back and she becomes and oathbreaker of sorts just like Jaime is seen as?


One thing I'm wondering is where they're going with all of the zombie stuff. Clearly it ties into the whole fire and ice dynamic since it seems there are the 2 flavors of zombies- your R'hllor/Fire zombies versus the Others and your Ice zombies, the Wights.
I like the political stuff, but its long past due to have the shit hit the fan with the Others. Jon likely getting reborn as another Fire zombie or Azor Ahai or whatever happens plus whatever goes on at Hardhome is likely what'll get that going. Plus maybe Davos uncovers more answers on Skagos while looking for Rickon, since thats fairly far north too?

Is there anywhere I can buy a digital copy of the Dunk and Egg stories for my kindle?

I don't think there is anywhere you can get them individually as of yet. They're all only available as part of collections. But you can get the collections that have the 3 available Dunk and Egg books on Kindle: Legends I (has the 1st Dunk and Egg novella)( Dreamsongs volume 2 also has the first Dunk and Egg novella, Legends II (has the 2nd Dunk and Egg story) and Warriors has the 3rd Dunk and Egg story.

 

[bluemax]

Speaking of Littlefinger, how the fuck has no one in the Vale revolted? There's a huge ass war ripping up the entire continent and they're all just sitting around doing nothing.

 

[iamblades]

Speaking of Littlefinger, how the fuck has no one in the Vale revolted? There's a huge ass war ripping up the entire continent and they're all just sitting around doing nothing.

You answered the first question with your second statement. I'm sure all of the commoners and most of the nobles are fine with being ruled by a crazy lady and a scheming bastard as long as they aren't getting involved in all these wars. No one is going to scale any mountains to invade them, so why should they get involved?

 

[RatskyWatsky]

We never figured out what she yelled though to Zombie Cat though, did we? Maybe it was something that changed Zombie Cat's mind about Jaime?

Nope, we have no idea what she said. It was a single word, and I can't imagine what it could have been to make Lady Stoneheart stop the hanging.

 

[maomaoIYP]

Anyone else ever get bugged by the fact that it seems that Robert and his brothers were the only Baratheons around? Where is the seat of the Baratheons before Robert came onto the throne? Don't they have any relatives or bannermen?

 

[apana]

You answered the first question with your second statement. I'm sure all of the commoners and most of the nobles are fine with being ruled by a crazy lady and a scheming bastard as long as they aren't getting involved in all these wars. No one is going to scale any mountains to invade them, so why should they get involved?

I think at least some of the nobles and knights of the Vale wanted to declare for Robb Stark but Lysa didn't want to participate.

 

[Iksenpets]

Anyone else ever get bugged by the fact that it seems that Robert and his brothers were the only Baratheons around? Where is the seat of the Baratheons before Robert came onto the throne? Don't they have any relatives or bannermen?

This bugs me about a lot of the families. Supposedly great houses like the Starks and Baratheons and Arryns seem to all be teetering on the edge of extinction. I means, I know that houses do die out in real life, but with so many so close to death it starts to feel like the houses are just artificially small because no one wanted to bother drawing up larger family trees. I have trouble believing that Robb didn't have a single 2nd or 3rd cousin who still happened to hold the Stark name that he could've named as heir.