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[Wh0 N0se]

Plus, if I recall correctly, doesn't he have a lank of silver hair? Or am I forgetting book Tyrion because of show Tyrion?

The seed is Strong.

Although I find it unlikely in that regard that Tyrion is a Targ.

Anyone see that piece on TOTH about Tywin Lannister, it suggests that someone was slowly poisoning him and that's what that stink was when he had died. Not much evidence supporting it and I doubt, if it's true, that it'd have any impact on the story anyway but it's a pretty interesting idea.

 

[CassSept]

About Arya not allowed to kill anyone she knew - in the process of becoming a Faceless Man she loses her name and identity, so technically she knows nobody, right?

Still, I doubt she will be sent on a mission to kill Cersei or anyone else on her list. To be fair, I doubt she stays with the FM until the end of the series.

 

[Aiii]

The seed is Strong.

Although I find it unlikely in that regard that Tyrion is a Targ.

Anyone see that piece on TOTH about Tywin Lannister, it suggests that someone was slowly poisoning him and that's what that stink was when he had died. Not much evidence supporting it and I doubt, if it's true, that it'd have any impact on the story anyway but it's a pretty interesting idea.

Why introduce a subplot where Tywin was being poisoined? Seems unlikely, the only suspect would be Cersei, but since she's a POV character, that would've been revealed to us some time ago.

 

[Violater]

I know, Dany needs to be taken down by that dysentery she has.

Gods I hope Arya dies.

I think more and more you guys are just trying to rile people up.

 

[Victarion]

I was re-reading through ADWD and on Jon's second last chapter found this piece very interesting:

He rose and dressed in darkness, as Mormont’s raven muttered across the room. “Corn,” the bird said, and, “King,” and, “Snow, Jon Snow, Jon Snow.” That was queer. The bird had never said his full name before, as best Jon could recall.

This is right after Jon having a dream about slaying dead men with a burning sword and the raven is associating Jon with King. Could it be Bloodraven warging into Mormont's raven? Specially since Jon recalls that it's the first time the bird has said his full name.

 

[gdt]

I take that more to be with Jon being reborn as Azor Azai.

 

[Pkaz01]

this all sounds way too neat and happy as an ending.



basically this.

though i really would like to see some of those things happen, even if they arent the end of the story for those characters. like jon is probably going to fight others, sansa is going to be able to play the game, etc. just doesnt mean that by the end everything is that clean.

I definitely agree its never that easy but my point was that whether any of that stuff happens or not those characters are being built up to do huge things in the future with huge impacts so there is no way arya is going to spend the rest of the two books finishing off her list and killing insignificant leftovers, while all the other major characters are doing things that actually matter.

 

[John Dunbar]

Why introduce a subplot where Tywin was being poisoined? Seems unlikely, the only suspect would be Cersei, but since she's a POV character, that would've been revealed to us some time ago.

i believe the theory is that tywin was poisoned by oberyn martell. it's mentioned at one point that he's breaking bread with tywin and mace, and some of his comments to tyrion suggest he's been up to something. it would also explain why he so recklessly fought against the mountain: even if he loses, he's already poisoned both the mountain and tywin, so he has nothing to lose and his revenge is complete. some even speculate he poisoned joffrey with the scorpion brooch, which is part of the reason why he agreed to fight for tyrion (as well as for a chance to kill the mountain, of course).

tl;dr: everyone who has died was poisoned by the red viper.

 

[Schmitty]

I wish the red viper was introduced earlier to the story. He was too cool to die so soon

 

[Tacitus_]

I know, Dany needs to be taken down by that dysentery she has.

I'd lol so hard if Dany dies to dysentery and Victarion rolls in and steals the dragons.

 

[Aiii]

i believe the theory is that tywin was poisoned by oberyn martell. it's mentioned at one point that he's breaking bread with tywin and mace, and some of his comments to tyrion suggest he's been up to something. it would also explain why he so recklessly fought against the mountain: even if he loses, he's already poisoned both the mountain and tywin, so he has nothing to lose and his revenge is complete. some even speculate he poisoned joffrey with the scorpion brooch, which is part of the reason why he agreed to fight for tyrion (as well as for a chance to kill the mountain, of course).

tl;dr: everyone who has died was poisoned by the red viper.

Hm, interesting, but I really don't see the point. His motive was pretty straight-forward wasn't it? Why would he have all this plotting against everyone in King's Landing?

He was taking a shit, shit stinks. Especially if you're toilet is a hole opening to a box that collects your shit. It's not like they flushed their stuff.

 

[John Dunbar]

Hm, interesting, but I really don't see the point. His motive was pretty straight-forward wasn't it? Why would he have all this plotting against everyone in King's Landing?

He was taking a shit, shit stinks. Especially if you're toilet is a hole opening to a box that collects your shit. It's not like they flushed their stuff.

i think it has been established that oberyn as well as his brother have been planning a long time for revenge. it was clear that he considered tywin to be the main culprit in his sister's murder, so i can see why someone might believe that oberyn made sure tywin would get his were he to lose against the mountain. i do agree that the joffrey bit is a stretch, though i don't think there's a very clear picture of what happened at the wedding. i think it's even possible there were several people aiming to poison joffrey (or someone else) and it's unknown whose poison did the trick. of course the poison hair net prophecy strongly supports the littlefinger/tyrell plot.

mind you, i don't think this will ever come up in the novels again, and whether martin intended it or not, it's just fun speculation, probably because people liked oberyn so much despite his brief role.

 

[arglebargle]

I definitely agree its never that easy but my point was that whether any of that stuff happens or not those characters are being built up to do huge things in the future with huge impacts so there is no way arya is going to spend the rest of the two books finishing off her list and killing insignificant leftovers, while all the other major characters are doing things that actually matter.

yeah, i agree with that. those characters definitely have some important role to play. at this point arya is probably my favorite character, so her doing something awesome would really make me happy, but on the other hand, grrm_troll.jpg. i have been watching the series on hbo go recently also and maisie williams just kills it. great character, great portayal.

I wish the red viper was introduced earlier to the story. He was too cool to die so soon

agreed. some people complain about the dorne plot, but i really like it. oberyn and doran each have their roles in this long game to exact revenge on their enemies. not to mention the house words are awesome.

 

[Necrovex]

agreed. some people complain about the dorne plot, but i really like it. oberyn and doran each have their roles in this long game to exact revenge on their enemies. not to mention the house words are awesome.

The Dorne plotline was my favorite story in AFFC. Arianne is simply awesome.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

i think it has been established that oberyn as well as his brother have been planning a long time for revenge. it was clear that he considered tywin to be the main culprit in his sister's murder, so i can see why someone might believe that oberyn made sure tywin would get his were he to lose against the mountain. i do agree that the joffrey bit is a stretch, though i don't think there's a very clear picture of what happened at the wedding. i think it's even possible there were several people aiming to poison joffrey (or someone else) and it's unknown whose poison did the trick. of course the poison hair net prophecy strongly supports the littlefinger/tyrell plot.

mind you, i don't think this will ever come up in the novels again, and whether martin intended it or not, it's just fun speculation, probably because people liked oberyn so much despite his brief role.

Oberyn mentioned (to Tyrion) that if Tyrion had not been seen serving the wine, he himself would have been the obvious first suspect. I don't think he ever really intended to throw his life away before he got a chance at Gregor Clegane.

The Tywin smell was simply that his body was rotting. No matter how well-preserved a corpse, sitting in open air for 7 days it's going to rot.

The "problem" with the Dorne plot is that it was so poorly planned that it ended up being a waste of nearly everyone's time. Arianne, the Sand Snakes, Viserys, and Dany are all completely in the dark of the schemes of Doran/Oberyn/Varys. Obviously with any scheme that involves being a traitor to the realm the less people who know the better, but because of the complete incompetence with which these plans were handled, Oberyn, Quentyn, and Viserys ended up dead (as well as Aerys Oakheart), and Arianne & the Sand Snakes had to be arrested to avoid starting a war with half of Westeros. Alleras is pretty much doing her own thing in Oldtown. Aegon's first large scale attack is at Storm's End, which is controlled by Stannis, not the lords of the Reach or the Lannisters.

"What we have here, is a failure to communicate."

The smartest thing that Doran ever does is sabotage Cersei's assassination attempt on Trystane by sending Balon Swann on a wild goose chase after Darkstar.

 

[timetokill]

I love the Dorne stuff. I really wish there was more of it, but it seems clear that GRRM hadn't really thought it all through as much as the other stuff. Which is a shame because I'd easily trade half of the Meereen chapters for Dorne chapters.

 

[Schweinehund]

The chances of Arya killing Cersei are pretty low especially if its the FM sending her. She knows her they know about her list and who is on it and there is the whole valonqar prophecy about Cersei dying to either tyrion or jaimie after losing her kids.


Plus really this is how I see it by the end of the book

Jon - AA reborn, becomes king, fights others

Bran - Bloodravens successor, all knowing and extremely powerful godlike status

Sansa - Learns from littlefinger becomes one of the best at the game rules over the vale and/or riverlands

Rickon - Lord of Winterfell (he isnt a major character anyway)

Tyrion - takes over casterly rock and or becomes dany's hand, maybe becomes a dragon rider

Dany - helps fight others might be jons queen

Arya - runs around in the riverlands for the first half of the series, becomes one of the best killers in the world and ends up killing Cersei who is already out of power and about to lose to Dany or Aegon or Jon anyway, or she kills some Freys and boltons who are in the same situation.

Nah she has to have a bigger end game

Jon - reborn as AA, fights the others fades away after the others are dealt with/magic disappears from the world.

Bran - refutes his position in the north, doesn't want that life, but still learns power to help.

Sansa - starts her own family/settles in.

Rickon - no clue, don't really care about him/see his significance.

Tyrion - Travels the world

Dany - fades into obscurity, realizes that all she's tried to accomplish won't make her happy and that the world needs to rule itself, not be ruled by one person, because one person can't make all the right decision.

Arya - similar to dany. Realizes that her vengeance can't ever be sated and moves on living in essos.

What I'm hoping to see happen is a peasant uprising, that takes them out of the feudal system, a long with magic fading out of the world.

 

[Jezabel]

in the AFFC prologue is "the Alchemist" Jaqen?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

in the AFFC prologue is "the Alchemist" Jaqen?

yeah, more than likely.

 

[gdt]

Fuck man, I really hope Ramsay didn't take Theon's dong. Almost confirmed at this point :/. Fuck. That some rough shit.

 

[gdt]

yeah, more than likely.

Any specific reasons why?

 

[hemtae]

Any specific reasons why?

Matches the description of him from when Arya last saw him.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Fuck man, I really hope Ramsay didn't take Theon's dong.

Why? He's earned it.

 

[gdt]

Why? He's earned it.

Theon did some fucked up shit, but we saw and understood the pathos behind all of it, and he's certainly on his way to redemption (his own personal one, at least) in Dance.

He's also one of my favorite characters .

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Theon did some fucked up shit, but we saw and understood the pathos behind all of it, and he's certainly on his way to redemption (his own personal one, at least) in Dance.

He's also one of my favorite characters .

Ah, gotcha. I might care about him more if he weren't a damned Greyjoy.

 

[Jezabel]

yeah, more than likely.

hrrm interesting, i hope we see the reasoning behind Jaqen trying to get in with the Citadel

 

[Wh0 N0se]

I've got a question, when Aegon and Rhaenys were supposedly killed, if Aegon was really saved by Varys why didn't they save Rhaenys? Was she too old to pass of as someone else or was Aegon not there or something?

 

[Pkaz01]

I've got a question, when Aegon and Rhaenys were supposedly killed, if Aegon was really saved by Varys why didn't they save Rhaenys? Was she too old to pass of as someone else or was Aegon not there or something?

I think Rhaenys was older so it was harder to fake her death like they did with aegon. Also its much easier to send away aegon because who is going to recognize him? Throw in the fact that its westeros and aegon is more important because of the succession rules.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

I think Rhaenys was older so it was harder to fake her death like they did with aegon. Also its much easier to send away aegon because who is going to recognize him? Throw in the fact that its westeros and aegon is more important because of the succession rules.

Thanks, I thought it was but wasn't definitely sure about it.

 

[Pkaz01]

Thanks, I thought it was but wasn't definitely sure about it.

Yea im not 100% sold on aegon myself because theres so little information how varys actually managed to do it. I'm sure we'll end up finding out later on before Varys dies and when someone really confronts Aegon about not being real.

 

[Rei_Toei]

I think that if Aegon ends up not being the real deal it'll be after he has already proven himself completely worthy/performed some important/impressive feats which get him the support of the smallfolk or some major house/houses. Which then poses a dilemma (depending on how widespread the knowledge is) for those involved.

I'm still wondering what role all the different religions will end up playing. All the 'red priest' characters seem to have the same strategy so far: go straight for a possible main player in the Game and position themselves as advisors. I have no idea what role the 'Old Gods' of the North as a religion will play other then being a source of friction between North and South. Greyjoy and co. just do their Drowned God thing which doesn't seem to be very important in the grand scheme of things but the Seven, the new Septon and their reinstated military orders (Warrior's Sons and the Poor Fellows) seem to develop into a very concrete military factor. Wonder where they'll stand in the shitstorms to follow.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

So unless I'm mistaken was Varys once an Unsullied or an Unsullied candidate? I'm reading GoT again and picked up on how his disguise resembles the Unsullied uniform.

 

[Basileus777]

I think that if Aegon ends up not being the real deal it'll be after he has already proven himself completely worthy/performed some important/impressive feats which get him the support of the smallfolk or some major house/houses. Which then poses a dilemma (depending on how widespread the knowledge is) for those involved.

I think the opposite is more likely. Varys' silly little speech at the end of ADWD seems like a pretty transparent way for GRRM to set up Aegon as a deconstruction of how training and educating a perfect king doesn't work like that. Aegon is going to be a failure, and all of the years invested in him will not end up creating some ideal king.

“No.” The eunuch’s voice seemed deeper. “He is here. Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them.”

Is there any way GRRM didn't write this thinking about how much he is going to enjoy proving how full of shit this paragraph is? A hidden prince educated in secret on how to be the perfect king? That's exactly the sort of cliche/character archetype that he loves to take apart and subvert.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

So unless I'm mistaken was Varys once an Unsullied or an Unsullied candidate? I'm reading GoT again and picked up on how his disguise resembles the Unsullied uniform.

I don't think so, he was with a group of actors and got sold because some wizard wants his testicles for some dark ritual

 

[Aiii]

I don't think so, he was with a group of actors and got sold because some wizard wants his testicles for some dark ritual

That is, if you ever believe anything Varys says.

For the record, you really shouldn't.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

That is, if you ever believe anything Varys says.

For the record, you really shouldn't.

True

But he seems genuinely afraid (i think) of anyone wielding/using magic. He even mentioned seeing dark figures and hearing them speak a lingo he does not understand. Kinda similar to what Dany saw when Drogo was being "cured"

 

[blainethemono]

Game of Thrones and History - call for papers

Thanks to some academically-minded fans, we’ve learned that Wiley—the publishers of Game of Thrones and Philosophy, which we provided the foreword for (Order: US Paperback, US Kindle, UK)—is tackling A Game of Thrones once more as part of its Pop Culture and History series with a book aptly named A Game of Thrones and History.

We are seeking proposals for essays to be included in an edited collection with the working title of “A Game of Thrones and History,” to be published by Wiley in 2013 as a volume in its *Pop Culture and History *series. We’re looking for essays that elaborate the historical context of G.R.R. Martin’s “A Song of Ice and Fire” series, examining individual characters or aspects of Westeros and other cultures against a historical backdrop, or analyzing how popular historical understandings inform the material. The collection is aimed at a broader audience than is the case for many scholarly collections, and seeks to make visible for readers the underlying use of historical events and culture in “A Game of Thrones”. We welcome submissions from historians or those in cognate disciplines, including gender studies, medieval studies or cultural studies.

Possible topics include, but are not limited to:


- The Great Houses and the Wars of the Roses
- Historical parallels for Cersei’s queenship
- Pretenders in the Middle Ages
- The Red Wedding and the history of hospitality and betrayal
- What Westeros could learn from Hadrian’s Wall
- How medieval were Daenarys’s dragons?
- The stain of illegitimacy and the bastards of Westeros
- Brienne of Tarth and medieval women at war
- A comparative history of treachery in the royal guard and at the court
- Prostitution in history and in the Seven Kingdoms
- The Old Gods, the Seven, Druids, and Christians
- Nobles, peasants, and social structures in Westeros and medieval Europe
- Marriage bargains and family structures in the Seven Kingdoms: historical parallels
- Medieval masculinities and manhood in the Seven Kingdoms
- Hordes, Heroes, Khans, and Khals: the medieval military cultures of Westeros and Essos


This collection will be published by Wiley Publishing, which will pay contributors an honorarium of $400 for each essay.

Please email a 500-word proposal, a one-page c.v., and contact information to Janice Liedl at jliedl [AT] laurentian.ca

This sounds interesting, considering writing something for this. There are a lot of really interesting historical parallels that could be used as possible subject matter. Full details at that link. Hopefully the book will be good, I love reading about all those historical events that inspired GRRM

 

[CygnusXS]

I'd be willing to bet money that Aegon will die and we'll never find out if he was legitimate or not. That's just how Martin rolls.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

Game of Thrones and History - call for papers

This sounds interesting, considering writing something for this. There are a lot of really interesting historical parallels that could be used as possible subject matter. Full details at that link. Hopefully the book will be good, I love reading about all those historical events that inspired GRRM

I'd write something for this but I just don't have enough time to do it and it'd probably be really bad, I find myself struggling to make my point clearly a lot of the time. But it looks cool.

I'd be willing to bet money that Aegon will die and we'll never find out if he was legitimate or not. That's just how Martin rolls.

This is the most likely, there aren't too many people left in the world who could prove that he's not a real Targ, although when he first meets the dragons (If that happens) it could be an interesting encounter, I can imagine him thinking that he'll be safe because of his Targ blood but the Dragons killing him because he isn't a real one despite him not knowing!!

 

[Violater]

So what did Brienne yell out to Zombie Catelyn.

My guess is "Mercy"
which was one of Catelyn's last words.

 

[gutshot]

So what did Brienne yell out to Zombie Catelyn.

My guess is "Mercy"
which was one of Catelyn's last words.

GRRM confirmed recently that she yelled "sword".

 

[Violater]

GRRM confirmed recently that she yelled "sword".

Sigh..
Somehow I feel until the books are all complete nothing much is going to make sense.

 

[Aiii]

GRRM confirmed recently that she yelled "sword".

Sword? Why?

 

[Violater]

Sword? Why?

to go poke Jamie with it I guess

 

[blainethemono]

Cat gave her the choice between the sword and the noose. That was the most popular theory before he confirmed it, along with "Arya" or "Sansa"

 

[Aiii]

Ah right, there we go. Duh.

 

[Violater]

So are we really going to have to wait another 4 years for the next book?

 

[Maffis]

So are we really going to have to wait another 4 years for the next book?

Nah, don't be silly.


At least 5.

 

[Violater]

Nah, don't be silly.


At least 5.

I only say 4 because its been a year since the release of ADWD

 

[blainethemono]

I only say 4 because its been a year since the release of ADWD

It was recently announced that the fourth Dunk & Egg novella is supposed to come out in 8 months and I don't think he's even finished writing that yet