-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
- Start date
- Status
He is a terrible author if this is the case whether he did it to defy fan expectations or if this was his plan all along.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
Second this, can't wait for some major battles to commence
Anyone got an estimate to the Winds of Winter release? 2-3 agonising years?
I think it's pretty telling that people who saw the show and then read all the books back to back like me were annoyed by Dany's arc in ADWD but people who waited all those years were furious.
I'm already chomping at the bit for the next book
It's been less than half a year and I'm still angry over Dany's arc (especially as I've skipped through the book and saw "Dragonstone" in her final chapter as I was still going through th first one a year ago...). I can't even imagine waiting 6 years to get... that.
About Mel, she seems amazing as first as she is the first Red Priest we see in the series. Her powers are becoming less and less comparable as we learn of extent of the power of other Red Priests (resurrection, precise premonitions (I keep seeing Jon Snow but Stannis must be Azor Ahai, YES), or complete rejuvenation and empowerment of lost limbs).
timetokill
Banned
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I agree. It would suck soooo fucking much. <3 Jon
There's just too much going on at the Wall, and beyond it too, (Dead things in the water, etc.) for him to die. He has to lead the wildlings/Night's Watch against Ramsay and rescue the wildlings at Hardhome.
Also, we know that GRRM cut two battles out of the end of ADWD and is putting them into TWOW. The Battle of Meereen and...? What's the other one? Winterfell? Ramsay vs.? Jon, Stannis, Tormund?
Winterfell, Stannis vs Boltons
"God's Beard!"
Member
Her internal monologue implied she was the best at reading the fires, but Vic's dude is way more accurate.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Well, she's not very well going to think "I'm terrible, everyone else is better than me" in her own monologues, is she? It's pretty clear that Melisandre gets things wrong a lot, and there are better priests at reading the fires.
Melisandre is too arrogant and tries very hard to make herself appear more powerful than she actually is. When she was predicting a tower by the sea washing away in a huge tide, Jon suggested it was Eastwatch and Mel was like, "uh...yeah, sure," not actually knowing which tower it was.
Moqorro just deals out facts and I don't think we've even seen the full extent of his abilities yet. The way he created Victorian's fire hand was creepy as hell too. It was only the second time we shift POV's within a chapter, the first being Dany's last chapter in GoT where it shifted to Jorah as Dany went into the fire. One theory suggests that Victarion is already dead, which could be one of Dany's visions from The House of the Undying: A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright on his dead face, gray lips smiling sadly.
Moqorro just deals out facts and I don't think we've even seen the full extent of his abilities yet. The way he created Victorian's fire hand was creepy as hell too. It was only the second time we shift POV's within a chapter, the first being Dany's last chapter in GoT where it shifted to Jorah as Dany went into the fire. One theory suggests that Victarion is already dead, which could be one of Dany's visions from The House of the Undying: A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright on his dead face, gray lips smiling sadly.
Mel is really shitty at reading the fires but she is pretty damn powerful.. she has done some crazy shit to prove it with the shadow babies and whatever she did with mance.
Thoros was really good at reading the fires and bringing people back to life, he is my favorite follower of rhollor for sure.
Thoros was really good at reading the fires and bringing people back to life, he is my favorite follower of rhollor for sure.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I wish we'd gotten a better view of fat, drunk Thoros with his flaming sword.
arglebargle
Member
grrm was on the sept 15th episode of npr's wait wait dont tell me. nothing too meaty, but he does tell the story about how having wun wun kill ser patrek was to settle a bet he made.
apparently when the show solicited questions for him on twitter the top two were: 1. when is the next book coming out? and 2. dont waste his time with questions, he should be writing the next book.
apparently when the show solicited questions for him on twitter the top two were: 1. when is the next book coming out? and 2. dont waste his time with questions, he should be writing the next book.
It was a bet with Pat of Pat's Fantasy Hotlist over a Cowboys-Giants game from a few years ago. The Cowboys won, so "Patrek" was killed in ADWD. (You'll notice that Ser Patrek's crest was a silver star on a grey field.)
I don't mind the bet so much, but I wish that GRRM hadn't chosen such a high-profile scene for the death. Kinda cheapens the emotional impact of the moment, in my eyes.
I had no idea about the bet and I thought the death added a lot to the scene when I read it.
velvet_nitemare
Member
How awesome would it be if Jon's knife wounds release smoke like Victarion's hand after Moqorro healed him?
So awesome.
So awesome.
velvet_nitemare
Member
She still has to kill Jhaqo and his bloodriders, but i suppose Drogon will do that for her. She can then claim the khalasar by right of conquest.
She lets herself be taken to Vaes Dothrak, but instead of joining the crones and staying, she makes them bow to her, declare her The Stallion Who Mounts The World and/or Mother of all the Dothraki and thus asserts leadership over ALL Khalassars. Every Dothraki has to bow to the crones. Especially when backed up by the biggest and strongest dragon that is known to be alive right now.
PS: Bloodriders do not split the Khalassar between them, their lives are bound to their Khal. They either die protectzing him or avenging him. Should they survive that, they reclaim his body and join him in death. No idea if they hop on the funeral pyre Indian widow style or fall on their swords, though. The ones taking over are the Ko(s?) and other sezrong warrios.
That one word should say strong, but my phone won't let me delete letters in the word and instead deletes letters in the text before it, damn piece of crap.
velvet_nitemare
Member
Doesn't she need to break the siege in Mereen first before swinging round to Vaes Dothrak? Viserion and Rhaegel are still there, plus Baristan, Missendei, Belwas and her unsullied. I really don't see her risking losing control of her dragons to someone else or risking them being killed.
BarrenMind
Member
I just finally finished ADWD. So happy to be caught up now, and that I can read this thread without worrying about spoilers.
Regarding the mysterious knight Robert Strong, this must have been talked to death but I went back about 10 pages or so and didn't see him mentioned. I figure he has to be The Mountain, reanimated by Qyburn as the result of all his experiments. Is that the consensus or are there other theories?
Other than that, there are so many cliffhangers but no other burning questions coming to mind at the moment.
Regarding the mysterious knight Robert Strong, this must have been talked to death but I went back about 10 pages or so and didn't see him mentioned. I figure he has to be The Mountain, reanimated by Qyburn as the result of all his experiments. Is that the consensus or are there other theories?
Other than that, there are so many cliffhangers but no other burning questions coming to mind at the moment.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
It seems obvious Strong is the Mountain, so obvious that I wonder if it isn't some sort of set-up.
However, the series has been getting more predictable as it goes on, not less-- so I I think it's him.
arglebargle
Member
i assumed it is him, but it hasnt been confirmed as far as i know.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
I like the theory that it's set up to allow Sandor to (finally) face off against Gregor when Cersei's trial by combat happens, Robert Strong on her side side and the Tall Man from the Quiet Isle on the side of the faith.
They've both 'died' as their old selves and come back as something else, the Mountain as a reanimated corpse and the Hound as a religious fanatic with a sword. You know how Martin loves him some dualities.
The other day me and a couple of xbl friends were discussing ASOIAF (all sorts of things, locations, character development, history etc. nerd level of that xbl party: over 9000!) and I just started wondering where GRRM is going with Brans story.
I mean I absolutely loved his stories in all books. From Winterfell through to that cave, his whole journey was one of the best parts in ASOIAF. Now he has arrived and has become a... tree. Or will become something like that. And now what? We can't expect many Bran chapters anymore since he's stuck in one location. And what can he do from there? As far as I can tell he can look into the past and see events and speak through other trees and maybe to others through dreams?
We don't have much of Bran story left do we? I just don't see where GRRM is going with that...
I mean I absolutely loved his stories in all books. From Winterfell through to that cave, his whole journey was one of the best parts in ASOIAF. Now he has arrived and has become a... tree. Or will become something like that. And now what? We can't expect many Bran chapters anymore since he's stuck in one location. And what can he do from there? As far as I can tell he can look into the past and see events and speak through other trees and maybe to others through dreams?
We don't have much of Bran story left do we? I just don't see where GRRM is going with that...
timetokill
Banned
He's the most powerful warg, so inevitably he'll be warging into a dragon and being able to fly and see shit.
Also, at some point he will warg into a knight and finally be a knight, then realize it's not all it was cracked up to be in his head.
As he gets older, Bran will start warging into girls to "see what it's like," but the old trees won't be happy about it.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I pretty much like where most of the characters are going but I must say I was disappointed that Bran's entire arc led him to become a tree. I really hope he doesn't stay there for the next couple books. Considering the cave is surrounded by Others and winter has finally come, it's kind of hard to imagine him leaving
Sure he'll be super powerful and do some crazy stuff but I still bummed. Maybe Martin will surprise us..
Finally caught up, its gonna be agonizing waiting for the next book. I cant imagine waiting 11 years to see what happened to dany and jon. Especially Dany since she's just shooting the shit in adwd.
sound so badass.
as for bran, no idea. The whole thought of becoming a cruddy tree sucks. Arya's assassin master in training and bran is a tree.
sound so badass.
as for bran, no idea. The whole thought of becoming a cruddy tree sucks. Arya's assassin master in training and bran is a tree.
FootballFan
Member
Finished reading the entire set of books. What an amazing collection.
Felt horrible when Robb died, I want the Freys to be wiped off the realm. I was so upset.
"The North Remembers" , "But he slew a guest beneath his roof, and that the Gods cannot forgive"
Everything related to Arya was extremely well written, her whole transformation was amazing.
Tyrion's story is engrossing.
Jamie has borderline redeemed himself.
Joffrey should of lived, he needed to die at the hands of a Stark.
I dont care for Cersie.
Needs more Petyr Baelish.
Dany oh Dany...get to Westeros already, she has been stuck on wrong side of the world for a bit too long for my liking even though I am thoroughly enjoying her time in Essos. Grab your Dothraki and trample all over your enemies.
Theon, Reek rhymes with Meek. Excellent Character.
Lady Stoneheart gave me shivers.
Samwell where art thou?
So many great characters, just feel like GRRM has killed a tad too many off.
And by the Seven, if Jon Snow aka Jon Stark of Winterfell really died at the end of ADWD, then ill scorch my collection....seriously. seriously.
Felt horrible when Robb died, I want the Freys to be wiped off the realm. I was so upset.
"The North Remembers" , "But he slew a guest beneath his roof, and that the Gods cannot forgive"
Everything related to Arya was extremely well written, her whole transformation was amazing.
Tyrion's story is engrossing.
Jamie has borderline redeemed himself.
Joffrey should of lived, he needed to die at the hands of a Stark.
I dont care for Cersie.
Needs more Petyr Baelish.
Dany oh Dany...get to Westeros already, she has been stuck on wrong side of the world for a bit too long for my liking even though I am thoroughly enjoying her time in Essos. Grab your Dothraki and trample all over your enemies.
Theon, Reek rhymes with Meek. Excellent Character.
Lady Stoneheart gave me shivers.
Samwell where art thou?
So many great characters, just feel like GRRM has killed a tad too many off.
And by the Seven, if Jon Snow aka Jon Stark of Winterfell really died at the end of ADWD, then ill scorch my collection....seriously.
seriously.Bran will guide the different actors of the coming conflict like a chessmaster moves his pieces. Hell, he will probably remotely mind - control the realm from centuries to come. Also: wharging dragons. Hell yeah!
Not only that does make sense, but it would also fit nicely with the Frog's prophecy about Cersei being killed by the valonqar (younger brother), for Sandor is the young brother of Cleagane and "Robert Strong" losing the trial by combat would essentially mean Cersei's death
Not only that does make sense, but it would also fit nicely with the Frog's prophecy about Cersei being killed by the valonqar (younger brother), for Sandor is the young brother of Cleagane and "Robert Strong" losing the trial by combat would essentially mean Cersei's death
ToyMachine228
Member
Just finished Game of Thrones. The first book, that is. I enjoyed it. The only thing I don't enjoy is that it's going to take me 2-years to read the rest of the series.
I read the first 4 books back-to-back in a couple of months. Don't know how your pace was near the end of AGOT, but the 2nd and 3rd book basically read at that pace too.
But other then that, you might want to bail out of this topic and go to the tagged thread, there's tons of shit you really don't want to be spoiled about beforehand.
Oh sweet summer child... this is the unmarked spoiler thread! Meaning we're discussing all five books with no spoiler tags. If you don't want to get spoiled here's the thread with spoiler tags:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210654&page=117
Finn of Ooo
Member
Ya the only one that would make sense is Sandor as its implied he didn't actually die, just the aspect of his personality "the hound" died. But I agree that the zombie thing is kind of a lame plot device.
Question: People over at Westeros.org are talking about Brandon Stark possibly being the youth cutting arrows and planning to assassinate the Targ dragons.
Where is this from? I know Bran's vision for the arrows, but where can I find who Brandon Stark even is? The Dunk&Egg novellas? I can't find a place to buy them.
Where is this from? I know Bran's vision for the arrows, but where can I find who Brandon Stark even is? The Dunk&Egg novellas? I can't find a place to buy them.
I haven't seen the discussion on Westeros.org, but does "the Targ dragons" refer to real dragons or is it just a way to call the Targaryens?
Either way, there are quite a few Brandons in the Stark lineage - the one that stands out the most is Ned's older brother. There isn't anything about the Starks in the Dunk and Egg novellas (yet).
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I just finished A Dance with Dragons. I started the book series as the second series of the TV Show was ending. It took a while for me to finish AFFC and ADWD, but I feel pretty accomplished reading them all in that time span.
Now the wait begins.
Martin is such a tease. He always has a character near the end of the book look like they are in danger. Does anyone honestly expect Jon to be dead?
Now I can participate in this thread!
Now the wait begins.
Martin is such a tease. He always has a character near the end of the book look like they are in danger. Does anyone honestly expect Jon to be dead?
Now I can participate in this thread!
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
The thing that blew my mind was that Bran's falling dream in the first book foretold all of it.
"There were shadows all around them. One Shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound (Sandor Clegane of course). Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful (Oberyn Martel "The Red Viper"). Over them loomed a Giant in armor made of stone (The Mountain), but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.
The thick black blood is how the Mountains blood was described when he was dying from the poison. The darkness when his visor is opened could either reference the fact that he is now basically an abomination zombie or that he literally has no head. Remember he doesn't talk?
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Nothing really besides the Dragon has three heads.
If Martin doesn't plan on trolling us then Jon Snow has to be Lyanna and Rhaegar's child.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I think the 'golden and beautiful' one is supposed to be Jaime. Golden fits with him, and Oberyn doesn't really seem to have any connection to Arya and Sansa.
That same dream also has this little bit:
"Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him"
It's really crazy to think about these things that are foreshadowed 4+ books in advance.
- Status