RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Oh man, the entire Lands of Ice and Fire leaked...I'm not gonna look at the pictures though. I'll wait until I get my copy. I don't want to spoil myself. lol
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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IAmtheFMan
Member
I got mine today. Pretty impressive maps, though the "journeys" map is pretty hard to follow, even if you know what you should be looking for.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
And me with no money. Fuck. >:/
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Still rereading Dance, just stumbled upon Jon's chapter where they discuss Hardhome, and the event that devastated the land there a few hundred years ago. It occurred to me that this was about the same time as the Valyrian Doom, and descriptions of both feature intense fires that could be seen from hundreds of leagues away, death of just about everyone present, and rumors of the area being demon-haunted in the aftermath.
Allegedly, every ship that sails over the smoking sea is doomed; Cotter Pyke arrives at Hardhome and is almost immediately trapped.
Allegedly, every ship that sails over the smoking sea is doomed; Cotter Pyke arrives at Hardhome and is almost immediately trapped.
Jack Scofield
Member
I just finished A Dance With Death, and I felt as though I needed to give me impressions on the book (and series as a whole) in this thread. Let me preface this post by saying that I enjoy this series very much (otherwise I wouldn't have read all five books), but there are things I have problems with.
First and foremost, GRRM really needs an editor. I never thought books ~1000 pages long could have such little progress within them. This applies to all the books in the series, but especially AFFC and ADWD. So often, chapters are meandering and unfocused, and when I finish them I'm left with a sense of "okay, that was neat, I guess. Nothing really happened, though." A BIG problem I have with these books is that almost ALL of the important events or character-defining actions happen within the last 200 pages or so, leaving the rest of the book to be a slog I must get through in order to get to the good parts. And even then, there's hardly any resolution to be found at the end. I get that this is a seven-book series, but I'd like some things to be wrapped up every once in awhile. For example, ADWD begins with a possible war between Yunkai and Mereen. It ends with the war between Yunkai and Mereen possibly beginning. 1000 pages with hardly any forward momentum. I'm not some philistine who needs explosions, sex, and war to be happening 24/7, but I would enjoy thinking that my time is being well invested while reading certain chapters.
Secondly, the introduction of magic and resurrection destroyed any sense of tension I have for characters. When Jon died, I was definitely surprised, but I couldn't care less after the fact. The permanence of death has been trashed in this series, so I can't stop myself from thinking that we'll see Jon again at some point in the future, whether it's through Melisandre's magic or something else. It doesn't hurt that readers have been exposed to multiple red herrings in the past regarding death, so the impact is totally gone at this point (Bran and Rickon, Catelyn, Arya, Davos, Theon, Gregor, and more).
Should I care that Ramsey says that he killed Stannis? I probably should, but I feel as though I can't trust anything written in these books, which really sucks. It's a feeling of "oh, I've heard this before. Time to wait another couple hundred pages to find out the real answer."
That's all I can think of for now. Like I said, I enjoy the series but I have some problems with it. At least now I can start the television show, which has been sitting on my shelf for five month now.
First and foremost, GRRM really needs an editor. I never thought books ~1000 pages long could have such little progress within them. This applies to all the books in the series, but especially AFFC and ADWD. So often, chapters are meandering and unfocused, and when I finish them I'm left with a sense of "okay, that was neat, I guess. Nothing really happened, though." A BIG problem I have with these books is that almost ALL of the important events or character-defining actions happen within the last 200 pages or so, leaving the rest of the book to be a slog I must get through in order to get to the good parts. And even then, there's hardly any resolution to be found at the end. I get that this is a seven-book series, but I'd like some things to be wrapped up every once in awhile. For example, ADWD begins with a possible war between Yunkai and Mereen. It ends with the war between Yunkai and Mereen possibly beginning. 1000 pages with hardly any forward momentum. I'm not some philistine who needs explosions, sex, and war to be happening 24/7, but I would enjoy thinking that my time is being well invested while reading certain chapters.
Secondly, the introduction of magic and resurrection destroyed any sense of tension I have for characters. When Jon died, I was definitely surprised, but I couldn't care less after the fact. The permanence of death has been trashed in this series, so I can't stop myself from thinking that we'll see Jon again at some point in the future, whether it's through Melisandre's magic or something else. It doesn't hurt that readers have been exposed to multiple red herrings in the past regarding death, so the impact is totally gone at this point (Bran and Rickon, Catelyn, Arya, Davos, Theon, Gregor, and more).
Should I care that Ramsey says that he killed Stannis? I probably should, but I feel as though I can't trust anything written in these books, which really sucks. It's a feeling of "oh, I've heard this before. Time to wait another couple hundred pages to find out the real answer."
That's all I can think of for now. Like I said, I enjoy the series but I have some problems with it. At least now I can start the television show, which has been sitting on my shelf for five month now.
What's funny is that his editors (he has multiple editors) are the ones who advised him to remove the climactic battles that he was building up to from ADWD into TWOW.
Hm? I don't think there was ever any confirmation (or even allusion) that he was dead. He was just stabbed a bunch of times.
As a reply to your whole argument, I do agree to an extent. Although, I do think the books are at their strongest when nothing is happening. I love the detail of everything and the picture it paints in my mind. I used to care about the plot, but as you point out ... the real plot is rarely the one presented, so there's not much reason to get emotionally invested.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
I think we all know how Season three of the show will end. I nice sweet pill to make the rage of the previous week go down smoother.
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
So according to that interview, the original title for the final book in the series was 'A Time for Wolves'...
The chances that this series with some fuckin glorious Stark bad-assery has just shot up a bit, I reckon.
The chances that this series with some fuckin glorious Stark bad-assery has just shot up a bit, I reckon.
BertramCooper
Banned
'Cept for Bran. Who will just be hanging out. Being a tree.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Way too far along. That probably won't happen until Episode 8 or 9 of Season 4. I would say Jon returning to the wall and Dany forcing Yunkai to free their slaves would be the perfect ending point for the season.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Martin certainly needs a non-fangirl editor but I still don't accept the "nothing happens" argument. A lot of stuff happens in the beginning of ADWD, same with AFFC. The middle of ADWD gets a bit slow due to Dany, but every character makes progress. I think a lot of the problem is that some people didn't like what was happening, so they have decided "nothing" happened. Theon's arc is quite extensive, as is Jon's. And while I didn't like Dany's arc, there's no denying she made progress
My problem with ADWD is that I feel like the Essos chapters could have used some major editing. It seems like this thread and most fans generally agree the northern story was great, and the few southern chapters were good (Jaime, Brienne, Cersei, etc). But Dany's story seemed like it was being stretched in multiple areas. Martin seems to have taken the AFFC criticism too literally by just deciding to give Dany a bunch of chapters since fans wanted more of her. I think the book would have been a lot better if Dany's chapters were cut by 5-6, perhaps more; GOT and ACOK barely have any Dany chapters, remember, and skipped large periods of time. Instead Martin presents a very focused political look at her rule, every decree and decision. I feel like two chapters of the guy asking for the fighting pits to be re-opened would be fine - instead there were multiple instances of him asking for the exact same thing before Dany finally relented.
I loved Tyrion's chapters although I also feel like his progress was stalled towards the end, just to ensure he didn't reach Dany. Same with Quentyn although he made it to her eventually. Martin has said the sequencing of these various arrivals was what delayed his progress, and it really shows.
Martin seems to trust the opinions of Elio and Linda, and hopefully they have shared some of their complaints with him; I know Linda had some problems with Dany's progress.
My problem with ADWD is that I feel like the Essos chapters could have used some major editing. It seems like this thread and most fans generally agree the northern story was great, and the few southern chapters were good (Jaime, Brienne, Cersei, etc). But Dany's story seemed like it was being stretched in multiple areas. Martin seems to have taken the AFFC criticism too literally by just deciding to give Dany a bunch of chapters since fans wanted more of her. I think the book would have been a lot better if Dany's chapters were cut by 5-6, perhaps more; GOT and ACOK barely have any Dany chapters, remember, and skipped large periods of time. Instead Martin presents a very focused political look at her rule, every decree and decision. I feel like two chapters of the guy asking for the fighting pits to be re-opened would be fine - instead there were multiple instances of him asking for the exact same thing before Dany finally relented.
I loved Tyrion's chapters although I also feel like his progress was stalled towards the end, just to ensure he didn't reach Dany. Same with Quentyn although he made it to her eventually. Martin has said the sequencing of these various arrivals was what delayed his progress, and it really shows.
Martin seems to trust the opinions of Elio and Linda, and hopefully they have shared some of their complaints with him; I know Linda had some problems with Dany's progress.
FUBAR McDangles
Member
Arya gon' fuck shit up
Not really. She's been pretty awful especially in season 1. She's definitely gotten better though but she's one of the weaker leads. Weakest probably going to Jon but that might be because Jon's material is such shit in the show.
BertramCooper
Banned
I really don't know what more people wanted from her in Season 1. It perplexes me.
elrechazado
Banned
they told me i could be anything, so i became a TREE
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
They wanted her to be some sort of seductress or some shit. I've always thought she was fine for how they've written her. It's different than how she is in the books, but I wouldn't call it better or worse.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I think Lena Heady is fantastic as Cersei.
That doesn't even make sense in the context of the book. In GoT, Cersei's only attempt at seduction onscreen was with Ned, which the TV show did. She couldn't try to whore herself out to others because Robert was still alive and would have beheaded her for it.
Steelyuhas
Member
Dragons. And you're in the spoiler thread bro, bail out.
They wanted her to read the books.
Jack Scofield
Member
How are you supposed to pronounce Arya?
Phonetically, is it ARE-yuh, like "are ya going out tonight?" Or is it like the word "aria"? For the longest time I pronounced it the first way, but it seems as though Y's are frequently pronounced as I's in ASOIAF.
I haven't watched the show yet, so I don't know how they say it there.
Phonetically, is it ARE-yuh, like "are ya going out tonight?" Or is it like the word "aria"? For the longest time I pronounced it the first way, but it seems as though Y's are frequently pronounced as I's in ASOIAF.
I haven't watched the show yet, so I don't know how they say it there.
timetokill
Banned
Depends how high class you are.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
I say "Ar-ee-ah" or "Aria" I guess.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
blainethemono
Member
Yup. Pretty sure that's how GRRM pronounces it
arglebargle
Member
i have always said it like aria. ah ree ah
Jack Scofield
Member
Yeah, even though I called her Ar-ya for the first three books, I think it's supposed to be Ar-ee-uh. It's a name that sounds more feminine, which explains why she chooses Arry (like Harry) as her name when travelling as a boy with Yoren. And like I said before, a lot of Y's are treated as I's in this series (Harys Swift is Harris Swift, Targaryen, Slynt is Slint, Brynden is Brinden, etc.).
Well, I was disappointed because I thought we are getting the written stories of a history of Westeros on top of the maps, but instead all I got is a bunch of maps.
The maps themselves were very cool to me, if a bit redundant at points (I don't see the point of having a world map if your going to give us the entire world map except bigger in 4 different parts), but I wanted the Dance of the Dragons story
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I think you had it confused with the World of Ice and Fire encyclopedia. That's the one that GRRM is writing extensive histories for. The Lands of Ice and Fire was always just a set of maps.
hemtae
Member
Well, I was disappointed because I thought we are getting the written stories of a history of Westeros on top of the maps, but instead all I got is a bunch of maps.
The maps themselves were very cool to me, if a bit redundant at points (I don't see the point of having a world map if your going to give us the entire world map except bigger in 4 different parts), but I wanted the Dance of the Dragons story
That would be The World of Ice and Fire. It confused me at first too.
Well, I was disappointed because I thought we are getting the written stories of a history of Westeros on top of the maps, but instead all I got is a bunch of maps.
The maps themselves were very cool to me, if a bit redundant at points (I don't see the point of having a world map if your going to give us the entire world map except bigger in 4 different parts), but I wanted the Dance of the Dragons story
They're only made redundant by the fact that you can probably find them, uncompressed, on the internet.
Still, I find it a bit sad that they're release canon maps before the series finishes. Trying to riddle out the distances between points and places not explicitly labeled on those tiny maps was part of the fun for me, especially in Essos.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
No one is forcing you to look at them!
I've only ever corrupted myself with that huge composite fan-made map, but even that didn't look right to me.
At least I haven't seen anything past Slavers Bay. I don't want to see the end of the world until we're shown it in the books.
Jack Scofield
Member
So is there nothing west of Westeros? Weterosi seem to treat the far east as some exotic place, but no one ever mentions what's across the sea.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I got a kick out of this - it's the ABC's of ASOIAF. Spoilers obviously.
I don't think we're going to go there in the books though.
I don't think we're going to go there in the books though.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
That's pretty cool.
The Y... I don't know why but I had the book and the series version of her as if they were different characters. I've just realized she's going to die in the show...
... :'(
One of the Stark ancestors sailed a fleet of ships west and was never heard from again.
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