As did Lysa.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
- Start date
- Status
As did Lysa.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Yeah I'm starting to notice how most of the "good" guys are total fucking idiots in the story. Between Robb's whole "Shup up, stupid prescient wolf, this wedding will be fiiiinnne," thing and now Jon ignoring every fucking warning and omen that his own dudes were plotting a coup it kind of takes the punch out of their demise.
Freezasaurus
Member
Which is really funny, considering how often I see new things at the book store with Martin's name on them.
TheDrizzlerJ11
Member
Don't forget about Ned. Maybe it's just a recurring theme for Stark men.
hemtae
Member
Brandon probably wasn't the brightest crayon in the box with his whole rescue attempt of Lyanna. Sansa was pretty dumb at the start as well.
Her, Arya and Bran will survive because they didn't have enough to time to learn all of Eddard's righteous stupidity. Rickon will end with the iron throne.
But they will lack Eddard's award winning honor!
I'm so pumped that I can finally read this thread. Just finished ADWD last night. But now that means I have to wait a while for more, I'm so sorry to the people who have been reading this for years, the wait must be unbearable.
I thought AFFC was a bore, with a few bright spots, but I absolutely loved ADWD. Maybe it's just the characters that it focused on, but I was giddy throughout the book. The epilogue was such a great way to end the book, fucking Varys! He's one of my favorite characters, so I loved seeing him do something completely unexpected. Hopefully TWOW comes out next year at the latest, the show is not going to be enough to hold me over for long.
I thought AFFC was a bore, with a few bright spots, but I absolutely loved ADWD. Maybe it's just the characters that it focused on, but I was giddy throughout the book. The epilogue was such a great way to end the book, fucking Varys! He's one of my favorite characters, so I loved seeing him do something completely unexpected. Hopefully TWOW comes out next year at the latest, the show is not going to be enough to hold me over for long.
So what do you think Blackfish's role is in the future of the series? Do you guys agree with the theory that he took Jeyne Westerling with him when he escaped Riverrun and that the one that Jaime saw as an imposter?
I hope Blackfish's escape is the way Greywater Watch is brought into the series. Howland Reed has some 'splaining to do.
I hope Blackfish's escape is the way Greywater Watch is brought into the series. Howland Reed has some 'splaining to do.
Steelyuhas
Member
I think GRRM confirmed that the inconsistencies of Jeyne were just a mistake that slipped through editing, and it's definitely the same person.
Also, there are rumors that Talisa will attend the RW in the TV show this year, and I assume that George would tell David and Dave if she still had an important part to play and that killing her would be a butterfly effect move.
That said, of all the things I'm anticipating in the next book, finding out what Blackfish is doing is pretty high on my list.
The Albatross
Member
Fairly strong arguments that Jon is not dead. That either:
- Melisandre revives him, which brings him closer to fulfilling her prophesies (also, being born of ice [the wall/north] and fire [her]).
- His bros didn't kill him, but they injured him severely enough to keep him at the wall, knowing that they'd be screwed without him there
toddhunter
Member
The third option is Bran does some tree level shit to save or revive him.
cartoon_soldier
Member
I doubt Jon is dead...especially if what people suspect of his real parents is true...
The heir to the Throne
Steelyuhas
Member
Haha books 6 and 7 in the series: "Bran does some tree level shit!"
I kinda hope he dies just to disappoint the R+L=J camp (which I've been a part of for years now).
He's not heir to the throne even if R+L=J because he'll still be a bastard
All spoilers are unmarked here, this thread could spoil book 4 and 5 for you (like the spoiler above my post). Here is the thread with spoiler tags:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210654&page=119
though I have to say I feel people are spoiling there as well. I posted the following there, what do you guys think?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=48172926&postcount=5914
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
I think thats a big problem with all books after A Game of Thrones. In GoT, if somebody needs to go somewhere, its pretty much an issue of the character leaving one chapter and the next chapter they're at their destination- like Cat going to King's Landing. Whereas in each subsequent book every little detail of someone's travels is meticulously detailed. Sure, world building through those sorts of travels can be fun but it can also kill any sense of pacing too.
timetokill
Banned
Whoa, wait. help here?
Can somebody point me to (or outline themselves) the inconsistencies and which parts were a mistake? I missed this stuff big time.
I think Jeyne was described differently in a later book leading people to believe she was an imposter.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
Catelyn Stark described Robb Stark's wife as having a body good for bearing children whereas Jaime Lannister's description is "not a kingdom/war worth winning for".
And then the speculations started that Robb Stark's wife is not the wife present at the meeting when Jaime saw her.
Ok, it was the hips.
Catelyn in ASOS:
Jaime in AFFC:
http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2010/08/02_heir_to_the_north/index.html
Catelyn in ASOS:
Jaime in AFFC:
http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2010/08/02_heir_to_the_north/index.html
timetokill
Banned
Ah, got it.
So did GRRM actually come out and say that was an editing error and that it was definitely the same girl?
So did GRRM actually come out and say that was an editing error and that it was definitely the same girl?
PhoenixDark
Banned
I think the Blackfish will go back to the Eyrie, recognize Sansa, and get killed before he can do anything lol. Granted he has never seen Sansa but there's no way he'll not recognize Catelyn in her face, and just a bit of snooping will confirm it.
Westerling isn't pregnant, that never made sense to me. Why would a fake Jeyne be so emotionally broken during the chapter where she met Jaime? If she was a fake she wouldn't be nearly as distressed over Robb. Plus as others pointed out GRRM mentioned it was a mistake on his part.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Not necessarily. Targaryens have had two wives before. It's possible that they could have been married. Assuming the Kingsguards were there to guard him, it would make sense that he was a legitimate heir. Of course then someone would still have to be able to prove that a marriage had taken place.
Couldn't it just be that Jaime doesn't have identical thoughts about women that are congruent with that of Catelyn's? Having good child-bearing hips could be a little subjective, especially if we're discussing the opinion of a man and woman.
When I was going through the books I did notice it wasn't identical (since I did all the books quickly in progression), but this didn't jump out at me as the huge WTF RED FLAG that I've seen some make it out to be. Different characters and different POV's. Plus, Jaime usually has a condescending/indifferent/dismissive opinion of most women that aren't Cersei. For most of the books anyways...
I do recall George going on record and admitting there was a bit of oversight to the description part (it was some interview last year I think) but to me it seems silly and would have been easily relieved of scrutiny if he just said: "Well one description was from a dude and one description was from an older woman who had given birth multiple times."
toddhunter
Member
I wasn't too sure about it from the books, but I think the tv series makes it very obvious.
In what way?
Summary Man
Member
One example which stuck out to me was in episode one, when Jon and Ned are about to go their separate ways. Ned tells Jon something to the effect of, "you may not have my name, but you have my blood," which I thought was a clever way of allowing the writers to leave the possibility of Jon being Ned's nephew open. Otherwise Ned could have just said, "you may not have my name, but you are my son."
I'd be curious to hear some other examples.
PhoenixDark
Banned
But the Targs lost the throne, they hold no claim. Until someone overthrows the Baratheons (by proxy, the Lannisters right now), they are the rightful rulers. Tommen would be the legitimate king if he was a Baratheon, instead it's Stannis.
Unless you're a Stark nobody cares about legitimacy like that. If people have enough reasons to replace the king they'll easily find a way to legitimize it.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Makes you wonder how the Starks ever held onto power as a great family.
toddhunter
Member
Yep that was a good one. The other big one was when Ned and the King are having lunch out in the field (2nd episode?) and Ned will not talk about the girl he knocked up. The king never even knew what she looked like...and all this right as they were talking about how much he wanted to kill every single last Targaryean.
hemtae
Member
They were isolated from everyone else up in the north and nobody likes the Boltons and the iron islands don't have the military power to take all of the north.
Captain_Spanky
Member
If he comes back I want him to come back like Cat. Make Mellisandre realise that the The Lord Of Light and The Other are one and the same, that those raised from the dead will always hate the living. Stick it right in the guts of the Jon lovers.
I think the real way to stick it in their guts would be just to have him die. That's it. It's not going to happen, but the reactions and repercussions would be interesting.
PhoenixDark
Banned
sheeeit how am I just seeing this now. Will read tonight, I've heard good impressions. This stuff was all in ADWD before being removed by the editor. She gets beat up on a lot, some deserved some not, and in this case I do think at least one of the major battles should have been in the novel. I really believe Dany's story could have been edited a lot better, getting rid of a few chapters to make way for the Mereen battle.
I really thought ADWD was great but you can't build up to a climax and then not show it, come on.
I was thinking today about the impact that Winter will have on the series, it makes me wonder whether GRRM really thought about it all those years ago because we're going to get into the situation whereby everyone will struggle to move around due to the amount of snow, especially in the North.
I wonder whether we are going to be getting a lot of time jumps in TWOW because we know the last book is called A Dream Of Spring and we know that Westeros has had an extremely long Summer therefore a long winter is predicted, if we're near Spring by the end of the book then we'll have passed a lot of time by then.
I think that the snow will mean that there is less travelling by characters and more surviving the harsh conditions which could mean that we're going to see less of the political manoeuvring than we have previously seen, although the South may not be hit that hard I suppose. I think the main plots going forward will be the North dealing with the Others and the South fighting a civil war as the Lords try to take advantage over Kevans death and allowing Dany to (FINALLY) arrive in Westeros by the end of TWOW or the start of ADOS.
Thoughts guys?
I wonder whether we are going to be getting a lot of time jumps in TWOW because we know the last book is called A Dream Of Spring and we know that Westeros has had an extremely long Summer therefore a long winter is predicted, if we're near Spring by the end of the book then we'll have passed a lot of time by then.
I think that the snow will mean that there is less travelling by characters and more surviving the harsh conditions which could mean that we're going to see less of the political manoeuvring than we have previously seen, although the South may not be hit that hard I suppose. I think the main plots going forward will be the North dealing with the Others and the South fighting a civil war as the Lords try to take advantage over Kevans death and allowing Dany to (FINALLY) arrive in Westeros by the end of TWOW or the start of ADOS.
Thoughts guys?
Steelyuhas
Member
I don't think A Dream of Spring necessarily implies that we'll see the end of winter prior to the end of the series, and even that it's close to the end of winter. I think it will be Winter for the rest of the series.
Original title for the seventh book was still badass and shit and I'm going to pretend that's the title in my head lol.
Do you think that Winter will end once/if the Others are wiped out, perhaps we may see the Long Summer! (Unlikely)
What was the original title? And what could A Dream of Spring imply if not the end of Winter? I really like this title, kind of hopeful but also melancholic. GRRM did after all say that the end is going to be bittersweet.
But yeah I have wondered too how he'll close that gap. Maybe the winter is not long? Maybe it will stop once the Others have been defeated? Who knows.
But yeah I have wondered too how he'll close that gap. Maybe the winter is not long? Maybe it will stop once the Others have been defeated? Who knows.
Steelyuhas
Member
I think it's just thematically, like defeating the Walkers. In terms of actual physical season, I don't think we see the end of winter in the books (unless the last two books cover a lot more time then the rest of the books do). We've been building to what is supposed to be this epic winter for 5 books, and it would just be weak if then that winter is actually not that long.
The original title was A Time for Wolves.
I knew it. Rickon is going to become king.
He could make a jump of 5 or 10 years or so. Didn't he plan that for AFFC/ADWD in the beginning? That's the reason why those books took so long, he changed the whole thing midway.
- Status