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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
- Start date
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I got pretty tired of Ygritte saying it all the time, but I couldn't really blame her.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I wonder how the show will inevitably fuck it up.
Probably not kill her off.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
As much as I love her character, I will stop watching if this happens.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'm guessing it'll be something like she takes Sam hostage by knife point, and Jon has to decide whether to shoot her with a bow or let her go. Bleh.
Laurentius
Member
This is one of the best explanations I've read of where Jon went wrong in ADWD.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Stop giving them ideas. ;_;
Which death scenes did the show fuck up? Ned and Robb's death were great on screen.
The Halfhand maybe.
Laurentius
Member
Yeah, Qhorin Halfhand was the only death that really bothered me on the show...
CornBurrito
Member
Val saying it could just mean it is a Wildling phrase that is more popular among women. Melisandre was probably fucking with Jon and used the phrase knowingly, which she possibly divined using her fire sight powers.
That said, the ASOIF universe seems to have a worldwide magic that makes popular phrases instantly known and used elsewhere. See: Words are wind, dark wings dark words.
Arys Oakheart's death was done really poorly in my opinion. Like... he somehow became suicidal and just... why
edit: How did Halfhand die on the show?
edit2: I also didn't find Ygritte's death that memorable. Though perhaps I was drowsy when I read it. Jon basically sees her get shot with an arrow, but knows it isn't his. Then when the battle calms down he goes to her and she manages some last words? Was that it?
Laurentius
Member
In the book it was extremely clear that the Halfhand wanted Jon to kill him so that the Wildlings would trust him. In the show there was just a quick whisper to Jon about it followed by the Halfhand attacking Jon. He essentially provokes Jon into killing him by making some remark about his mother or something.
If you weren't paying close attention to what happened before and hadn't read the books, you were bound to be confused. Which subsequently causes Jon's entire experience with the Wildlings to be unclear.
CornBurrito
Member
Wow... I don't think book Jon would kill a Black Brother for insulting his mother.
Laurentius
Member
Yeah, it's pretty bad...he says something about "your traitor father" and "your whore mother", which obviously makes Jon extremely mad. Right before he dies, Qhorin says something along the lines of "we are the watchers on the wall". It's unclear whether Jon realized what was happening when he was fighting Qhorin, or if he just killed him out of anger. It sure looked like anger.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Yeah, he finds her shot with the arrow and she's all like "We should have never left that cave."
I dunno, I thought it was a great conclusion to one of my favorite characters.
EDIT: Didn't Qhorin say something previously to Jon in the show along the lines of "We need someone of the Night's Watch among their ranks?" Before the fight, that is. He pushes him down a hill.
Laurentius
Member
Yeah, but in my opinion at least, it was only a quick moment and didn't really have any of the impact of the "do not balk, whatever is asked of you" scene in the book. Maybe I'm wrong and most people caught onto what was happening, but I just felt it was kind of obtuse in comparison to the scene in the book. *shrug*
Steelyuhas
Member
That won't happen. They've killed people that are still alive in the books, and no book characters that died are alive at this point in the show.
CornBurrito
Member
I liked it. I just don't remember it that well.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I can agree that it was kind of rushed, but I thought they made the point well enough.
My perception may have been skewed because I did read the book and knew more about it than show watching folk.
Game of Thrones Characters as Video Game Consoles
Sansa PS3 Bold and naive. Thinks everyone will love her because of her noble bloodline.
Eddard Dreamcast Head of a strong household killed off too soon, many claim unjustly.
looool, brilliant. more:
http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/off...es-characters-as-video-game-consoles-1455101/
Sansa PS3 Bold and naive. Thinks everyone will love her because of her noble bloodline.
Eddard Dreamcast Head of a strong household killed off too soon, many claim unjustly.
looool, brilliant. more:
http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/off...es-characters-as-video-game-consoles-1455101/
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Game of Thrones Characters as Video Game Consoles
Sansa PS3 Bold and naive. Thinks everyone will love her because of her noble bloodline.
Eddard Dreamcast Head of a strong household killed off too soon, many claim unjustly.
looool, brilliant. more:
http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/off...es-characters-as-video-game-consoles-1455101/
Jorah as the Vita is PERFECT.
CornBurrito
Member
Deja vu.
TheSadRanger
Banned
Don't know if this has been posted but I found a pretty interesting interview with Jack Gleeson, "Joffrey" at a seminar in the University College of Dublin. It's a pretty entertaining watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PUefiJBJQQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PUefiJBJQQ
CornBurrito
Member
Speaking of the show, show Joffrey is so much more entertaining than book Joffrey.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I think Viserys as the Virtual Boy is what got the loudest LOL for me. XD
You Know Nothing
Member
I just finished my third read through of ASoS. I still can't get over the final Sansa chapter.
Building Winterfell in the snow and Lysa's insanity. So good. I can't wait to see it in season four. Probably my most anticipated moment. Well, second most behind the Purple Wedding.
I'm planning on doing a combined reading for AFfC and ADwD this time. While I enjoyed each book individually, I really feel they'll benefit from being combined.
Building Winterfell in the snow and Lysa's insanity. So good. I can't wait to see it in season four. Probably my most anticipated moment. Well, second most behind the Purple Wedding.
I'm planning on doing a combined reading for AFfC and ADwD this time. While I enjoyed each book individually, I really feel they'll benefit from being combined.
Finished Dance with Dragons recently. BREAKDOWN:
+The pacing was much improved over Feast. The shorter chapters were nice after the much longer ones in the previous books and there was a lot going on.
+ I really liked the diversity of the POVs. We had a lot of familiar characters, but also new ones and some returners that only got a chapter or two in previous books. You never knew who was going to be next. The Theon chapters were amazing, probably the best arc in the book even though it was hard to read at times.
+So many awesome one-liners and quotes. Manderly told a joke that got nearly a dozen people killed, not even Tyrion can boast that.
+ I feel like there was more character progression and major events in this book when compared to the last. While both Feast and Dance focus on what happens when a character actually becomes a ruler, I thought it was better handled in this book.
-Too many loose ends. I know it's only book five of seven, but I feel like every arc left me hanging. I was hyped to see Davos go to cannibal land, but then they never mention it again.
-This book kinda made me hate Dany, who was one of my favorite characters. Her personality just seemed really different from before, possibly because of the big gap from arriving at Meereen to actually ruling it. I found her to be sometimes overtly cruel without being morally conflicted about it, which seemed out of character.
-Too many similar names. I got Benerro and Moqorro mixed up so many times, I still don't know who is who. And don't get me started on the Ghis names.
-Quentyn trying to steal a dragon WAS THE DUMBEST PLAN I'VE EVER READ. Even Cersei's idea to arm the Faith was brilliant when compared to this.
Overall I really enjoyed the book and I'm obsessed about where it's going now. I guess I need to read the Dunk and Egg tales.
Also reading up on some theories now that I've completed the main books, here's what I've learned.
Everyone's a Targaryean
Everyone's a Blackfyre
Everyone's Azor Ahai
Everyone's the Night King
Everyone's the valonquar
+The pacing was much improved over Feast. The shorter chapters were nice after the much longer ones in the previous books and there was a lot going on.
+ I really liked the diversity of the POVs. We had a lot of familiar characters, but also new ones and some returners that only got a chapter or two in previous books. You never knew who was going to be next. The Theon chapters were amazing, probably the best arc in the book even though it was hard to read at times.
+So many awesome one-liners and quotes. Manderly told a joke that got nearly a dozen people killed, not even Tyrion can boast that.
+ I feel like there was more character progression and major events in this book when compared to the last. While both Feast and Dance focus on what happens when a character actually becomes a ruler, I thought it was better handled in this book.
-Too many loose ends. I know it's only book five of seven, but I feel like every arc left me hanging. I was hyped to see Davos go to cannibal land, but then they never mention it again.
-This book kinda made me hate Dany, who was one of my favorite characters. Her personality just seemed really different from before, possibly because of the big gap from arriving at Meereen to actually ruling it. I found her to be sometimes overtly cruel without being morally conflicted about it, which seemed out of character.
-Too many similar names. I got Benerro and Moqorro mixed up so many times, I still don't know who is who. And don't get me started on the Ghis names.
-Quentyn trying to steal a dragon WAS THE DUMBEST PLAN I'VE EVER READ. Even Cersei's idea to arm the Faith was brilliant when compared to this.
Overall I really enjoyed the book and I'm obsessed about where it's going now. I guess I need to read the Dunk and Egg tales.
Also reading up on some theories now that I've completed the main books, here's what I've learned.
Everyone's a Targaryean
Everyone's a Blackfyre
Everyone's Azor Ahai
Everyone's the Night King
Everyone's the valonquar
CornBurrito
Member
Yeah that scene was especially good. Loved every moment of it. And I even predicted how it would all go down once Lysa started going apeshit.
And he died a brutal death for it. Sometimes people do dumb things and suffer the consequences. Why is this a negative?
Steelyuhas
Member
I cannot wait to see that on the show. One of my favorite moments.
A man just died, of course it's a negative. SHOW SOME RESPECT.
I like Quentyn's arc though. A prince who goes on an adventure to win the favor of a beautiful girl and then fights a dragon. A classic tale, but GRRM handles it in his own way and its amusing to watch. Quentyn said he had some "blood of the dragon" in him. More like blood of the dumbass.
CornBurrito
Member
Quentyn was at least better done than Arys Oakheart. Oakheart charged suicidally into a battle he couldn't win, at all... for seemingly no reason.
Quentyn at least had some sort of insane troll logic that he wouldn't be attacked due to having blood of the dragon.
Laurentius
Member
I suppose there might just be some confusion about the negative implying "GRRM was dumb, he should have written it differently" or "Quentyn was dumb, he shouldn't have done that".
Either way, poor Quentyn.
CornBurrito
Member
I'm pretty sure Shenron can bring Quentyn back to life guys.
Supermanisdead
Member
but what if vegeta wishes for immortality instead
CornBurrito
Member
I dont think GRRM would do that.
He only died for a bit, just long enough to free him of his vow to serve the NW for the rest of his life.
FootballFan
Member
Jon will be back. Read the prologue again, the obvious clues are there. Let's just hope he comes back 'Alive'.
Was reading that Davos chapter at White Harbour again. That Wylla Manderly speech about the 'promise' and the following Davos chapter were amazing.
The Manderly's are right up there as my favourite fictional family, right behind the Simpsons, Bundies, Bluths and Starks.
King Allant
Member
yeah I do hope Jon is just in a coma and not get brought back to life by Melisandre, god I hate her
and god the Davos chapter at White Harbour are great. Love the promise scene and Wyman conversation in the next chapter.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Yup, all of Davos' chapters were awesome in ADWD, largely due to the Manderlys. Much of the northern campaign in the book seemed like a vindication of honor: it may get you killed, but it can inspire loyalty and love that can't be bought or bargained. The Manderlys love for the Starks, the mountain clans unbending loyalty to "The Ned," etc. Ned may have lost his head, but he still has thousands of people willing to die for him and his children.
I think we're going to see quite a contrast in the next book, as the Lannister house crumbles despite all the effort Tywin put into it. Same with the Tyrells, who might end up losing a few bannermen to Aegon soon. I think Mathis Rowan (who was/is laying siege to Storm's End) and Randyl Tarly will switch sides.
FootballFan
Member
I completely agree with your assessment of Davos and his ADWD chapters, they were excellent. I, of course, want vengeance just like Manderly, brutal and cold vengeance for Neddard Stark, Robb, Cat and all those who suffered at the hands of Frey, Bolton and Lannister.
GRRM hopefully delivers in that regard.
Also somebody further back mentioned Sansa's final chapter in ASOS, and it also ranks right up there. I really like how GRRM can paint such vivid pictures and put you in the shoes of the characters, which sometimes connects you to your own past or present experiences and feelings. That chapter is sort of nostalgic, she longs for home, she feels strong within the walls of 'Winterfell', empowered as it were. Sansa, I salute your struggle and may your reign as Queen of the North and Warden of the East be a long and happy one.
GRRM supposedly mentioned that the series will have a bitter-sweet ending. My thoughts on that are as follows:
The Sweet Stuff:
Bolton, Frey and Lannister are eliminated and removed from power.
Sansa beats Littlefinger at the game of thrones.
Jon defeats the Others as was promised.
Stannis sits the Iron Chair.
Rickon Stark becomes the Lord of Winterfell.
Doran Martell gets his revenge.
Bran runs the Treenet.
Gendry is legitimised as a Baratheon.
Ramsey dies.
Jamie redeems himself by sacrificing his life for Brienne.
The Bitter:
Jon dies, really. He also never finds out who is parents were.
Arya dies.
Stannis dies.
Bran stays a tree and never leaves the cave.
Dany and her dragons reach Westeros and she sits the chair.
Tyrion is a Targaryen and flies a dragon.
The Direwolves all die.
Benjen is never found.
Cat never sees her children again.
Tommen and Myrcella die.
Jojen and Meera die.
Howland Reed never appears to enlighten us on the events at the Tower of Joy.
etc. etc. etc.
I just hope the next entry is out within the next 2 years. Hurry George, hurry because Winter is Coming.
Tarly is pretty much the no-bullshit supersoldier XO of the Tyrells, I'd be mightely surprised if he'd switch sides. He consequently is following his liege lord wherever he goes.
CornBurrito
Member
I wonder if Wyman Manderly is dead. I mean his injuries sound deadly but he has so much fat I am hoping his vitals weren't fucked up.
Laurentius
Member
I love the fact that if Manderly survives, he was literally saved by his massive extra chins.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Rereading ACOK is pretty fun towards the end when you realize that Robb's fateful decision is already beginning to splinter his army - even when we don't really know what he did yet - and that Roose Bolton has decided to turn.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Pretty much. It's mentioned several times that Manderly lets his mask slip whenever the Freys start talking shit about Robb.
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