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[Talon]

Oh shit. The game has changed.

 

[Basileus777]

Are we spoiling it? I really want to talk about it. Or do we want to give a time limit till when it's free game to talk about it without spoilers.

Anything that's aired or been put in print should be fair game. It's the unpublished material (ie preview chapters) that should be spoiler tagged. No other policy makes sense for this particular thread.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Anything that's aired or been put in print should be fair game. It's the unpublished material (ie preview chapters) that should be spoiler tagged. No other policy makes sense for this particular thread.

I totally agree with that.

 

[Cornballer]

Anything that's aired or been put in print should be fair game. It's the unpublished material (ie preview chapters) that should be spoiler tagged. No other policy makes sense for this particular thread.

That's the way this thread has been from the start, though it wasn't really an issue show-wise until now. I don't really see a reason to change as I don't think there's a large group of book-reader only posters that are looking for somewhere to only discuss ASoIaF. If things start to really diverge even more significantly towards the end of this season of the tv show, we can reassess. In general, let's try and keep the more show-related discussion in that thread whereas this one is more for larger book discussion. Yes, I understand that the lines are blurring a fair bit.

 

[Crisco]

What happened at the end wasn't really a spoiler, it was more the show's interpretation of something that we pretty much already know occurs in the books. Like Theon getting fixed.

 

[Exterminieren]

What happened at the end wasn't really a spoiler, it was more the show's interpretation of something that we pretty much already know occurs in the books. Like Theon getting fixed.

The real spoiler came from the HBO Guide, though.

The way it was hurriedly changed tells me that someone fucked up royally with that one.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

The real spoiler came from the HBO Guide, though.

The way it was hurriedly changed tells me that someone fucked up royally with that one.

GRRM probably knocked over his bucket of KFC reaching for that phone to yell at them.

 

[CassSept]

What happened at the end wasn't really a spoiler, it was more the show's interpretation of something that we pretty much already know occurs in the books. Like Theon getting fixed.

Unless it turns out that it was an intern's mistake Night's King being alive is a spoiler. Everything else was implied, but that was pure speculation. As was an existence of certain hierarchy within Others' ranks, though that was predictable due to nature of the series and GRRM's comments.

 

[Moff]

was it really not a spoiler, even witthout the nights king? did we really know the others reproduced like that? sure, it was a plausible theory, but we didnt know.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

For me it kinda (in my mind) indicated a link between Bran's Story and the Night's King. Which has been hinted at, but since we see him physically there, it seems to me that is the inevitable direction of his story. To what end? I can only guess.

 

[Freeman]

I just decided I'll stop watching the show. I already gave it to many free passes and now that it decided to venture in unreleased books spoiler the choice became easier.

The early success of the show gave the creators to much confidence to change the original material without much consideration (not unlike what happened with the Hobbit trilogy, coming after a successful TLotR adaptation, yes, TLotR had some very unfortunate changes but they were at least less frequent).

Jaime killing his cousin and raping his sister and all the other completely unnecessary changes, characters whitewashing, the total lack of subtlety of the show, all that without adding anything of value to the series.

In the last episode I think only one scene exists in the books, Brienne leaving Kings Landing, and even that had severe changes.

They insist with the gratuitous scenes of sex and violence, something that cheapens the whole series, do they think that that is the reason why people watch the series? Leave it to the parts where it fits the story, no need to try a place one of those scenes in every chapter, just tasteless and imature.

The show is just not up to standards, it started well enough with season 1, but it was downhill from there.

 

[Paganmoon]

I call that the scene the "The Destroyer of Theories."

What theories did it destroy though?

I posted this in the TV show thread, but it's probably worth a look here as well:

- Full Rolling Stone interview with GRRM

Hehe, this part from the interview makes it sound like he lives with his first wife in the first home:

(The home where he lives with his second wife, Parris, is nearby.)

 

[King Allant]

What theories did it destroy though?

well the HBO guide destroy the theory of Stannis becoming the Night King, and some other theory that I don't remember

 

[Dysun]

I just decided I'll stop watching the show. I already gave it to many free passes and now that it decided to venture in unreleased books spoiler the choice became easier.

The early success of the show gave the creators to much confidence to change the original material without much consideration (not unlike what happened with the Hobbit trilogy, coming after a successful TLotR adaptation, yes, TLotR had some very unfortunate changes but they were at least less frequent).

Jaime killing his cousin and raping his sister and all the other completely unnecessary changes, characters whitewashing, the total lack of subtlety of the show, all that without adding anything of value to the series.

In the last episode I think only one scene exists in the books, Brienne leaving Kings Landing, and even that had severe changes.

They insist with the gratuitous scenes of sex and violence, something that cheapens the whole series, do they think that that is the reason why people watch the series? Leave it to the parts where it fits the story, no need to try a place one of those scenes in every chapter, just tasteless and imature.

The show is just not up to standards, it started well enough with season 1, but it was downhill from there.

The show is not the books, it's unfortunate people cannot separate the two of them.
I find the complaints about gratuitous sex and violence a bit silly, when the book is littered with "Fat Pink Mast", "Myrish Swamps", and so much violence I can hardly quantify it in words

 

[Exterminieren]

They insist with the gratuitous scenes of sex and violence, something that cheapens the whole series, do they think that that is the reason why people watch the series?

I would be very surprised if it wasn't the reason that some people watched the show, yes.

Let's not pretend that GRRM is above the occasional bit of titillation, either. At least the show restrains itself from Dany wearing breast-exposing outfits at all times.

 

[fallout]

They insist with the gratuitous scenes of sex and violence, something that cheapens the whole series, do they think that that is the reason why people watch the series? Leave it to the parts where it fits the story, no need to try a place one of those scenes in every chapter, just tasteless and imature.

It's funny that you say that, as I've always felt that the gratuitous scenes of sex and violence (and food) was one of the things that the actually nails with regard to the books.

Although, the violence is a little too slapstick at times.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

It's funny that you say that, as I've always felt that the gratuitous scenes of sex and violence (and food) was one of the things that the actually nails with regard to the books.

Although, the violence is a little too slapstick at times.

I felt the sex scene monologues in the first season were a bit ridiculous.

 

[Freeman]

The show is not the books, it's unfortunate people cannot separate the two of them.
I find the complaints about gratuitous sex and violence a bit silly, when the book is littered with "Fat Pink Mast", "Myrish Swamps", and so much violence I can hardly quantify it in words

Please, drop this excuse there are degrees of success in adapting something from another media.

The guy in charge of Catching Fire adaptation did a great job (if you didn't like the movie you are very likely to not like the book as well), while an adaptation like "I Am Legend" is pure garbage.

It's funny that you say that, as I've always felt that the gratuitous scenes of sex and violence (and food) was one of the things that the actually nails with regard to the books.

Although, the violence is a little too slapstick at times.

They never felt out of place in the books to me, they usually involved important characters.

I would be very surprised if it wasn't the reason that some people watched the show, yes.

Let's not pretend that GRRM is above the occasional bit of titillation, either. At least the show restrains itself from Dany wearing breast-exposing outfits at all times.

Someone really need to present them to some porn websites then.

 

[Paganmoon]

I just decided I'll stop watching the show. I already gave it to many free passes and now that it decided to venture in unreleased books spoiler the choice became easier.

The early success of the show gave the creators to much confidence to change the original material without much consideration (not unlike what happened with the Hobbit trilogy, coming after a successful TLotR adaptation, yes, TLotR had some very unfortunate changes but they were at least less frequent).

Jaime killing his cousin and raping his sister and all the other completely unnecessary changes, characters whitewashing, the total lack of subtlety of the show, all that without adding anything of value to the series.

In the last episode I think only one scene exists in the books, Brienne leaving Kings Landing, and even that had severe changes.

They insist with the gratuitous scenes of sex and violence, something that cheapens the whole series, do they think that that is the reason why people watch the series? Leave it to the parts where it fits the story, no need to try a place one of those scenes in every chapter, just tasteless and imature.

The show is just not up to standards, it started well enough with season 1, but it was downhill from there.

I actually liked this episode cause it had so much new in it. While I don't agree with some of the changes they've made before, the changes in this episode were great, they weren't forced in any way imo. And the addition of the White Walkers scene, well we can't blame anyone but GRRM for that.

Feels really exciting going into territory we have no clue about! Sure, I'd love to have read it first, but seriously, we can't wait forever.

well the HBO guide destroy the theory of Stannis becoming the Night King, and some other theory that I don't remember

That was an actual theory? how? Would he have gone darkside on Mellisandre?

 

[Dysun]

Disliking the adaptation for changes made to characterization, and narrative is one thing.
But to hold up the book as this holy grail free of gratuitous sex and violence is just lolworthy. You are seeing it for something it's not, the scenes with Dany getting fingered by her handmaiden, Cersei exploring myrish swamps, and the omnipresent threat of rape to everybody at any time is just as present and perverse as anything in the show.

 

[Brakke]

If this thread starts fretting over "spoilers" I'll be so sad. I only like spoilers for chapters of unreleased books because those are incomplete and out of context. I just don't think there's much "there" there to discuss anyway.

 

[Freeman]

Disliking the adaptation for changes made to characterization, and narrative is one thing.
But to hold up the book as this holy grail free of gratuitous sex and violence is just lolworthy. You are seeing it for something it's not, the scenes with Dany getting fingered by her handmaiden, Cersei exploring myrish swamps, and the omnipresent threat of rape to everybody at any time is just as present and perverse as anything in the show.

Come on, its so much more frequent in the series and you can clearly see their intentions when you realize it occurs way more in the most modified plot-lines and is spaced out so you always get a scene like that in every episode. It never bothered me while reading the books, the way the show does it pretty much implies that their public enjoys seeing people getting raped and abused.

 

[Talon]

The idea of the tv show somehow cheapening the books due to sex and violence is hilarious. That must be a joke, right?

"…was there ever a woman with nipples so large or so responsive?"

 

[Freeman]

The idea of the tv show somehow cheapening the books due to sex and violence is hilarious. That must be a joke, right?

You got something against nipples?

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Come on, its so much more frequent in the series and you can clearly see their intentions when you realize it occurs way more in the most modified plot-lines and is spaced out so you always get a scene like that in every episode. It never bothered me while reading the books, the way the show does it pretty much implies that their public enjoys seeing people getting raped and abused.

Spoiler

You need to go back and reread the books.

 

[Moff]

Spoiler

You need to go back and reread the books.

in that case, that would probably be a bad idea

 

[Freeman]

in that case, that would probably be a bad idea

Why?

 

[Fuzzy]

This gets problematic because for example after today we know more about the Others than we'd know from the books. If we discuss future plot developments, especially beyond the wall and society of the Others in this thread then what, are we supposed to ignore that?

Yes. The show isn't Canon when it comes to the books so it shouldn't exist in this thread at all.

 

[Aiii]

Are we really calling out GoT for whitewashing? The show has an absolute fuckton of colored characters, not to mention a whole ton of international actors, Dutch, German, whatever. Do we really need to throw a fit because a character doesn't 1:1 match George's description? I would much rather see a good actor regardless of race to play a role because they are good at the role than a second or third best option because their skin color matches.

If every single character was white, fair enough, but come on, white washing? Really?

 

[Fuzzy]

Are we really calling out GoT for whitewashing? The show has an absolute fuckton of colored characters, not to mention a whole ton of international actors, Dutch, German, whatever. Do we really need to throw a fit because a character doesn't 1:1 match George's description? I would much rather see a good actor regardless of race to play a role because they are good at the role than a second or third best option because their skin color matches.

If every single character was white, fair enough, but come on, white washing? Really?

People don't mean race in this instance. Tyrion is whitewashed on the show. He didn't do most of the bad stuff he did in the books.

 

[John Dunbar]

People don't mean race in this instance. Tyrion is whitewashed on the show. He didn't do most of the bad stuff he did in the books.

just as long as he kills that cunt shae it's all good.

 

[phazedplasma]

Why?

Because then you would see that you are wrong.

 

[Freeman]

Are we really calling out GoT for whitewashing? The show has an absolute fuckton of colored characters, not to mention a whole ton of international actors, Dutch, German, whatever. Do we really need to throw a fit because a character doesn't 1:1 match George's description? I would much rather see a good actor regardless of race to play a role because they are good at the role than a second or third best option because their skin color matches.

If every single character was white, fair enough, but come on, white washing? Really?

If you are referring to the use I made, maybe I used the term incorrectly(not my first language), I was trying to refer to how a character like Tyrion is portrayed as inherently good. I have no issues with race.

But its not even just about that, its how characters are simplified or stripped of their characteristics, like how Loras is reduced to his sexuality or how Sam becomes incompetent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewash_(censorship)

Because then you would see that you are wrong.

I guess that's how you roll around here. Even if you find the sex in the books gratuitous(which I don't, I have many issues with the books but its portrayal of sex and violence isn't one) how does that justify how it is used in the series? I'm cool if you have no problem with it, just don't pretend it is there to help with the narrative.

 

[Aiii]

Aha, my bad.

Still an invalid critisism to have since I really don't understand how you can go into a show and expect it to come close to the depth of thousands of pages of written text, but hey if you want to stop watching the show, that is fine, no judgement here.

 

[Freeman]

Aha, my bad.

Still an invalid critisism to have since I really don't understand how you can go into a show and expect it to come close to the depth of thousands of pages of written text, but hey if you want to stop watching the show, that is fine, no judgement here.

I have watched and I assume pretty much everyone has, movies and series that do not lack in character complexity or development, being a series is no excuse.

The series is not entirely bad, I don't get why it can't be criticized, its like being a series and an adaptation is an excuse for every flaw.

 

[demosthenes]

was it really not a spoiler, even witthout the nights king? did we really know the others reproduced like that? sure, it was a plausible theory, but we didnt know.

One of the girls at CK did that gillys baby's brothers would be returning soon. We pretty much knew.

 

[CassSept]

Edit: nvm I'm being stupid

Edit2: Whatever:

That was an actual theory? how? Would he have gone darkside on Mellisandre?

There's a theory about everything. That being said:

well the HBO guide destroy the theory of Stannis becoming the Night King, and some other theory that I don't remember

I guess if that White Walker delivering the baby

Spoiler

the baby the baby the baby

turns out to be Benjen indeed that would kill Benjen=Coldhands?

Yes. The show isn't Canon when it comes to the books so it shouldn't exist in this thread at all.

Tbh I'd agree with many changes/additions, but with D&D knowing the "broad strokes" of the future events the reference to Night's King seems way too deliberate to be an asspull. Maybe.

I felt the sex scene monologues in the first season were a bit ridiculous.

That episode with a 7 minute long lesbian sex scene in Littlefinger's brothel. Nothing will ever top that.

 

[tmdorsey]

I just decided I'll stop watching the show.

I don't believe you and generally disagree with your critique.

 

[Freeman]

I don't believe you and generally disagree with your critique.

I don't need you to believe me and you are free to do as you please. I'm out of this topic, not a fruitful place to discuss anything as it seems. GoT is perfect, god bless this series.

 

[A Human Becoming]

That episode with a 7 minute long lesbian sex scene in Littlefinger's brothel. Nothing will ever top that.

I hope nothing ever tops that. That's my problem with the series compared to the books. Sex scenes can be used more for shock value than story/character progression. Littlefinger's dialogue was so unnecessary. Same for Ros the traveling whore.

I don't think the series should be talked about in here anymore. This type of talk should go in the book spoiler thread. Keep this books/comic/games only, while the other thread is a real mixture.

 

[DC1]

Let me be clear..
I have drawn out the last three chapters of ADwD for over a year waiting for the a release date of The Winds of Winter; in my weakness, last night I broke.
Last night I...:

1. Closed out the final three chapters of A Dance with Dragons
2. Read the Mercy chapter from TWoW
3. Read Theon's chapter from TWoW
4. Saved Tyrion's chapter to my phone (Will read today)

and now I have to talk about it.
I need to talk about it all. No spoiler coding no beating around the bush. I need to be naked and unashamed around others who are frolicking around buttie naked.

Is this Safe Ice and Fire Gaf?
I see so may Spoiler tags which run contrary to the title of the thread.

 

[Aiii]

Is this Safe Ice and Fire Gaf?
I see so may Spoiler tags which run contrary to the title of the thread.

Read the OP mate.

 

[DC1]

Read the OP mate.

Yeah just re-read it in detail and a little there after... feeling a little less cautious.
Not sure why folks are still protecting plot details and potential impacts..

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Yeah just re-read it in detail and a little there after... feeling a little less cautious.
Not sure why folks are still protecting plot details and potential impacts..

GAF has become very spoiler conscious as of late.

 

[DC1]

Are we spoiling it? I really want to talk about it. Or do we want to give a time limit till when it's free game to talk about it without spoilers.

It should be on the table right?
RR is overseeing the plot presentation and direction of the HBO series, the books are well advance of that.
We are also keenly aware that the HBO series is a 'retelling' of the events of book series; it's the only way any of us can maintain proper appreciation for the HBO broadcast.

If there is a reveal in the HBO series there is no guarantee that the reveal will be presented in the same manner through future book releases (this particular case being the exception).

In short, I get that we want to spoiler tag TWoW chapter release details; however I don't understand why we would afford the same to the broadcast when we consider the above coupled with the understanding that this is suppose to be a spoiler free released book thread.

Edit:
Who would have thunk that I would run into a fellow Yakuza fan in this thread

Edit 2:... or a more classical reader...

 

[TCRS]

welp, I didn't even know it was a spoiler until I read this thread. I thought it's more of an interpretation of the show on how human beings turn into wights. But why did I have to klick on that picture on page 353...

not sure what to do. has the show really taken over the books or was that just a blunder? man, this is fucked up. didn't think we'll be in this situation so soon lol.

 

[gutshot]

I don't need you to believe me and you are free to do as you please. I'm out of this topic, not a fruitful place to discuss anything as it seems. GoT is perfect, god bless this series.

It most certainly is; you are engaged in a discussion right now. You brought an opinion to the table, other people countered it, you responded and so on and so forth. That is what you call a discussion. Did you want everyone to go "Oh yeah, you are totally right. I'm going to quit watching too"?

 

[DC1]

I don't need you to believe me and you are free to do as you please. I'm out of this topic, not a fruitful place to discuss anything as it seems. GoT is perfect, god bless this series.

Getting hear late. Haven't read much of the history within this thread however..why are you really bailing?

Versed opinions are absolutely awesome when discussed amongst fiends.

 

[A Human Becoming]

welp, I didn't even know it was a spoiler until I read this thread. I thought it's more of an interpretation of the show on how human beings turn into wights. But why did I have to klick on that picture on page 353...

not sure what to do. has the show really taken over the books or was that just a blunder? man, this is fucked up. didn't think we'll be in this situation so soon lol.

Take into consideration GRRM said he gave the producers an outline of how the series ended. The Night's King could easily play a part in it.

 

[Cat]

Hey all, I'm currently reading this series and just finished A Clash of Kings. Is it ever established why Mandon Moore tried to kill Tyrion? A Google search suggests not.