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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

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L

Loke13

Member
Moff said:
I hope Faegon dies a quick death in the first half of TWOW.
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Doubtful. Judging by the fact that TWOW spoilers:
He's already taken over Storms End I have a feeling he'll be causing major trouble for the Tyrell forces throughout the book. If anything he'll probably meet his end at Dany's hands but this is GRRM so anything is possible.
 
Moff

Moff

Member
yes I know, sadly, I just really hate surprise character like him that come out of nowhere after the middle of the series and are supposed to be major players (yeahyeah I know, prophecies, rumors whatever). it reminds me of some bad soap opera, where suddenly one of the main characters never heard of nephew becomes main cast.

and the idea that he isn't even what he claims to be but another lame twist about his heritage... damn. I really hate everything about him.

I would really be annoyed if he played any role in the sagas endgame.
 
C

CloudWolf

Member
Moff said:
and the idea that he isn't even what he claims to be but another lame twist about his heritage... damn. I really hate everything about him.
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I still don't buy this. There is far more evidence that Aegon actually is who he says he is than the opposite. The only real thing 'Faegon' believers have going for them is the fact that Aegon is supposed to be dead, but that's a pretty damn weak argument.

Sure, there was also the Mummer's Dragon thing, but that could just as easily been a reference to the fact that Varys used to be a mummer. Actually, that seems far more likely IMO considering GRRM has done stuff like that before (a prophecy that could logically be interpreted as one thing, but actually means something else).
 
B

Brakke

Banned
CloudWolf said:
Actually, that seems far more likely IMO considering every author who has ever written a work with a prophecy for at least two and half millennia has done stuff like that every time (a prophecy that could logically be interpreted as one thing, is always misinterpreted by mortals).
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Generalized that out for you. There's no way any story about misinterpreting or self-fulfilling a prophecy is going to be shocking or interesting; every single possible story about a prophecy has already been told dozens and hundreds of times.

I really wish these books didn't have prophecies. Such a crutch.
 
C

CloudWolf

Member
Brakke said:
Generalized that out for you. There's no way any story about misinterpreting or self-fulfilling a prophecy is going to be shocking or interesting; every single possible story about a prophecy has already been told dozens and hundreds of times.

I really wish these books didn't have prophecies. Such a crutch.
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Yeah, the decision to ignore the prophecies from the books is one thing I really like about the show. Of course, they're going to screw that up next season with
Maggy the Frog
, but it was nice while it lasted.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
CloudWolf said:
I still don't buy this. There is far more evidence that Aegon actually is who he says he is than the opposite. The only real thing 'Faegon' believers have going for them is the fact that Aegon is supposed to be dead, but that's a pretty damn weak argument.

Sure, there was also the Mummer's Dragon thing, but that could just as easily been a reference to the fact that Varys used to be a mummer. Actually, that seems far more likely IMO considering GRRM has done stuff like that before (a prophecy that could logically be interpreted as one thing, but actually means something else).
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What is this evidence?
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Honestly, it can't be Aegon. I would find it very odd if it was any character that wasn't one of the main characters from the first book really.
 
S

SamVimes

Member
Well it could be a temporary situation, i wouldn't be too surprised if after becoming king he loses the throne in 500 pages or less.
 
B

Brakke

Banned
SamVimes said:
Well it could be a temporary situation, i wouldn't be too surprised if after becoming king he loses the throne in 500 pages or less.
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Yeah, it'll definitely change hands at least once before The Winner takes it--or melts it down forever.

I want Aegon to sit in it and then get a cut that festers and he dies all sick and sweaty and lame.
 
R

RobotChant

Member
Aegon is a setup to create conflict for Daenerys when she finally sets out for Westereos. It doesn't really matter if he's real or fake. It will be another round of Dragon vs Dragon.

Daenerys should end up on the throne somehow. It's unlikely that GRRM kept her in Meereen for so long if not to set her up for an eventual rule in the West.
 
C

CassSept

Member
Targaryen conflict was certainly a key point in GRRM's original plan. A Dance With Dragons (originally meant to be the second of the trilogy, the book in which Dany was supposed to land in Westeros) is too meaningful of a name to not reference two Targaryens vying for the throne.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
I think the faith will be the ones to usurp the throne from the Lannister-Baratheons and eventually lose out to whoever wins it in the end. I see Aegon getting sidetracked somewhere, maybe Casterly Rock or something.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Aiii said:
Honestly, it can't be Aegon. I would find it very odd if it was any character that wasn't one of the main characters from the first book really.
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He won't be king for long IMO. The political and military realities of King's Landing (Cersei awaiting trial, Kevan dead, Maergery awaiting trial, the oafish Mace Tyrell poised to gain more power) will make it easy to claim the crown IMO, especially if Randyl Tarly switches sides as I think he will. Remember, the largest Tyrell army is heading to the Shield Isles to deal with Euron, and even if they prevail it's impossible that they'd hear word of Aegon's arrival soon enough to march back to King's Landing before he strikes.

That being said, ruling is another matter entirely. I think he's going to be cheered by the small folk and very successful for a small period of time before shit hits the fan. Something will go wrong - be it greyscale, wildfire, whatever - and his reign will become a disaster IMO.
 
S

Showaddy

Member
butzopower said:
Could Ned's promise to Lyanna tie at all into "The prince who was promised"?
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Possible but it's more likely just about keeping Jon's parentage secret, no way would Robert have let Rhaegar's child with Lyanna live. Also begging Ned to dirty his name and honour by pretending he'd fathered a bastard was a huge ask.
 
L

Loke13

Member
Showaddy said:
Possible but it's more likely just about keeping Jon's parentage secret, no way would Robert have let Rhaegar's child with Lyanna live. Also begging Ned to dirty his name and honour by pretending he'd fathered a bastard was a huge ask.
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I have a feeling that was all Neds idea. Something tells all Lyanna really said was protect Jon and it was Ned's idea to claim him as his bastard.
 
F

Forkball

Member
butzopower said:
Could Ned's promise to Lyanna tie at all into "The prince who was promised"?
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Yes. If there is an Azor Ahai/Prince that was Promised it's Jon. A lot of people think it's Dany, which is pretty credible, but I'd bet on Jon. The aspects of the theory are as such:

Prince: Jon is the son of Rhaegar ergo a prince (though Aemon says gender doesn't matter)
Blood of the Dragon: Jon is half Targ
Born amidst salt and smoke: When Jon was totally not killed, the salt comes from the tears of Bowen Marsh and the smoke relates to how Jon describes the cold "smoke" coming from his wounds.
Bleeding Star: That guy Wun Wun kills has a star symbol on his arm, the arm that the giant ripped off.

Other things: Mel sees Jon Snow in her visions searching for AA, Lightbringer could be the Night's Watch etc.

You can't really count on prophecies being 100% true, but so far in the story every prophecy has had some truths to it. Hell even Patchface gets stuff right and he's crazy.
 
B

butzopower

proud of his butz
Not saying it doesn't tie it together, but the dude who the giant kills apparently has the star because, of all things, the Dallas Cowboys.
 
B

Brakke

Banned
Forkball said:
Lightbringer could be the Night's Watch etc.
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"I am the sword in the darkness."?? That's some seriously contrived prophecy nonsense, but I'll buy that GRR would do it.

You can't really count on prophecies being 100% true, but so far in the story every prophecy has had some truths to it. Hell even Patchface gets stuff right and he's crazy.
Click to expand...

Of course Patchface gets stuff right. Because he's crazy.
 
J

Jayof9s

Member
Brakke said:
Of course Patchface gets stuff right. Because he's crazy.
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I'm curious to see if/what horrible things he does based on Mellisandre saying: "That creature is dangerous. Many a time I have glimpsed him in my flames. Sometimes there are skulls about him, and his lips are red with blood."

Seems pretty ominous for nothing to come of that and George rarely throws in something like that just for the heck of it (it usually just takes a long time to make any sense).
 
B

butzopower

proud of his butz
Maybe Jon warged into Patchface before he died, and took him over because he's a halfwit. Can't tell if that's more GRRM or Kojima.
 
F

Forkball

Member
Brakke said:
"I am the sword in the darkness."?? That's some seriously contrived prophecy nonsense, but I'll buy that GRR would do it.
Click to expand...

Azor Ahai wields Lightbringer, Jon Snow wields the Night's Watch as he is LC. I also read that Ygritte was his Nissa Nissa (the wife of AA who was killed to forge LB), as she was "sacrificed" in the battle that led to Jon Snow becoming commander. That part is a bit iffy and too convenient, I mean in the original legend AA straight up killed his wife so Jon may have to do something more direct if the prophecy plays out like it once did.

Patchface will literally eat Shireen.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
PhoenixDark said:
The Dornish Master Plan (Part I of III)


Very interesting set of videos from the guy who made a similar series on the pink letter. I don't agree with a lot of it, specifically the Quentyn stuff, but boy is this interesting. Especially the Brave Companions stuff...hmm.
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He goes into some batshit insane territory. Quentyn is alive? Haha.

Even the less extreme stuff is mostly just speculative fiction with little evidence to back it up. I think he just compiled every theory about the Martells on the internet and put them all together into one incoherent package.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Yea I've never liked the Quentyn theories. I understand people feel there had to be "more" to him but until proven otherwise it's more likely that he was just a plot device (to turn Dorne against Dany). Plus we know TWOW
that both dragons take the field during the Meereen battle, and neither are being ridden. So the idea that he actually escaped on a dragon is pretty much invalid.[/spoiler ]

That being said, Doran's plan for him made no sense. Why would a cautious man send his son on such a quest with so little support or preparation?

The most interesting part of the theory is about the Brave Companions. I can believe Oberyn founded them. More importantly I found it weird that such a religious group of fanatics would wantonly attack septons and churches. Framing the Lannisters in the eyes of the Faith seems pretty logical. I don't believe this was all a part of a plan to oust Cersei though, that's way too much perfect planning.

Btw I like the idea of Dorne trying to steal Dany's eggs but I don't buy it. It's a fun theory but no one knew dragon eggs could be hatched, so any master plan revolving around hatching eggs is suspect to me.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
The Brave Companions are the most interesting part of it all. But even then I think he's way overselling the religious connection with them and the amount of control Doran could feasibly have over that group of dumb brutes. I don't think the Brave Companions are more than what they appear to be on the surface, a low grade (GRRM's own words) mercenary company that switches sides at the wrong moment and end up backed into a corner.
 
S

SamVimes

Member
Very fun theory to watch, too bad i don't buy any of it. Although i always wondered if Mizzi Maz Duur tried to kill Drogo with the poultice or not.
 
J

Jayof9s

Member
SamVimes said:
Very fun theory to watch, too bad i don't buy any of it. Although i always wondered if Mizzi Maz Duur tried to kill Drogo with the poultice or not.
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Yeah, a friend of mine recently started watching the show and was asking me if Mirri Maz Duur caused Drogo to get worse or not and I had no idea.

She did give him the poultice but he also pretty much never wore it (at least in the books) so it could go either way. She either was trying to kill him and only mostly succeeded because he didn't wear it enough or she tried to help but couldn't because he refused to wear it.

I suppose it doesn't really matter, since we know what she did with her next chance...
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
I think she was trying to heal Drogo, and the video really hits the nail on the head imo. The books are full of healers using their abilities to get closer to someone and gain trust. Qyburn heals Jaime in order to gain his trust, Moqorro does the same with Victarion. Jeyne does the same with Robb, although I don't think she had any ulterior motives like the others listed.

I think the goal was to heal Drogo and then kill the baby during childbirth in some blood magic shit (waking dragons from stone). Do I believe the dragon eggs had anything to do with her logic? Probably not...but her connection to Marwyn makes me wary. I sure as hell don't believe MMD did all this to smuggle a dragon to Dorne, but I can at least imagine birthing dragons as a slim possibility.
 
W

Wh0 N0se

Member
I'm really tempted to get the ASOIAF books at Audible, but looking at the membership etc I'm not quite sure if it's good value for money, especially considering that it seems they've split the books up meaning you're paying more/using more credits.
Does anyone use the service? What are your thoughts about it? Is it worth signing up for or is there a better service elsewhere?
I like audiobooks and I know the ASOIAF ones are pretty good but with the way the service works I can't tell if it's good value for money.
 
H

HeisenbergLannister

Member
Just finished A Storm of Swords...and I think I need to go ly dow.

20120914120348!Exploding-head.gif


On to A Feast for Crows.
 
A

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
Wh0 N0se said:
I'm really tempted to get the ASOIAF books at Audible, but looking at the membership etc I'm not quite sure if it's good value for money, especially considering that it seems they've split the books up meaning you're paying more/using more credits.
Does anyone use the service? What are your thoughts about it? Is it worth signing up for or is there a better service elsewhere?
I like audiobooks and I know the ASOIAF ones are pretty good but with the way the service works I can't tell if it's good value for money.
Click to expand...
I actually started using the service by getting Game of Thrones for free. I think their selection is generally overpriced due to their monopoly, but I'm pretty cheap and haven't looked around at the price of audiobooks elsewhere. That said, I was satisfied paying $15 each for CoK and SoS. The performance is phenomenal, the best I've heard so far. The only reason I didn't get the last two was because Roy Dotrice (who originally was suppose to play Pycelle in the show and later starred as the pyromancer guy in season 2) changed some voices and name pronunciations.

Their smartphone (and assumingly tablet) app is good. They recently fixed my biggest complaint, which was you couldn't using skip/forward on a bluetooth headset (would have been incredibly helpful listening to ASOIF). You still can't buy books through it. It's worth signing up and if you want a free book click here.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
from the other thread
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=119595107&postcount=4219

I agree that Ned and Howland aren't the only people who know the truth about Jon. GoT notes that "they" found Ned still holding his sister after she passed, and I assume the "they" included Howland, Wylla, and perhaps other handmaidens/bed maids. The fact that Ned felt comfortable leaving Wylla in Starfall could suggest that the Daynes were trustworthy or oblivious to the child's origins.

However I seriously doubt Darkstar knows anything, or that his attack on Myrcella can be linked to any of this.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
I really don't understand why Darkstar tried to kill Myrcella, though. "Instigating a war between Dorne and the Iron Throne" doesn't make much sense, as he has no motivation to do so. Was he working for someone?
 
L

Loke13

Member
Valhelm said:
I really don't understand why Darkstar tried to kill Myrcella, though. "Instigating a war between Dorne and the Iron Throne" doesn't make much sense, as he has no motivation to do so. Was he working for someone?
Click to expand...
Paid by Littlefinger BOOM.

When in doubt blame Littlefinger.
 
S

Showaddy

Member
I think Darkstar being a laughable idiot is explanation enough. Probably thought killing an unarmed girl would make him better than Arthur Dayne somehow.
 
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