Turin Turambar
Member
B, because the white walkers in the prologue appeared before the dragons.
Why? Who knows. Maybe it's a natural cycle of the world. I don't think they ever explain it. It just happened.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
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B, because the white walkers in the prologue appeared before the dragons.
Why? Who knows. Maybe it's a natural cycle of the world. I don't think they ever explain it. It just happened.
Is this a good indication? I thought the White Walkers were always there, judging by for how long Craster gave them his sons. They only gathered strength for real, when the magic came back.
I´d love to know more what Crow´s Eye did and saw when he went to Old Valyria.
Basileus777
Member
That far south? Doubtful as the Night's Watch has no idea that they are around. The rangers in the prologue weren't that far from the Wall. Craster's actions would qualify as recent when you think of the timescale these events are happening on.
Steelyuhas
Member
White Walkers being active fuels magic in some way, mayhaps?
butzopower
proud of his butz
The Others have been gone far longer than the dragons. I think magic faded out and the dragons began to lose their power and not reproduce as much. As to why magic faded, I'm guessing it's because of the Doom (maybe Braavos and Oldtown caused it?). Whatever is bringing magic back into the world is letting the dragons come back, but also probably had the unintended consequence of waking The Others.
Frank the Great
Banned
I think whatever happened, Oldtown had something to do with it or at the very least, the maesters are some of the few who actually know and understand what the hell is going on.
Let me quote from book two ACOK. Quaithe talking to Dany in Qarth, when the fire mage vanished on top of his fiery ladder:
"Half a year gone, that man could scarcely wake fire from dragonglass. He had some small skill with powders and wildfire, sufficient to entrance a crowd while his cutpurses did their work. He could walk across hot coals and make burning roses bloom in the air, but he could no more aspire to climb the fiery ladder than a common fisherman could hope to catch a kraken in his nets."...
"And now his powers grow, Khaleesi. And you are the cause of it."
So we get a time frame of basically half a year prior to this scene. With Dany having crossed the desert, this roughly coincides with the birth of the dragons. The White Walkers were earlier, I´d say.
They probably can't find it, being in community and all. Plus, really, how many people know the series is called "a song of ice and fire"?
They probably can't find it, being in community and all. Plus, really, how many people know the series is called "a song of ice and fire"?
I guess that is true. I just kind of noticed a lot of folks say 'fuck it I'm going to read the books!' after every season ends. I always find something I missed before on a reread so it would be very interesting.
This kinda makes it seem like there are two opposing forces of magic at work here Fire&Ice.
Have there been any incidents of wargs being native to Essos instead of Westeros in the books?
hi guys... just wondering whats the best way to read the novellas?
i see the female collection one and the collection with the hedge knight in it but both are around 30 each
are they worth it for that price? are any of the other stories in those collections any good? it feels wasteful spending/buying so much book for just those stories
i know there is a collection of all three that may be released in english this year or next but i wouldnt mind getting a GoT fix
i see the female collection one and the collection with the hedge knight in it but both are around 30 each
are they worth it for that price? are any of the other stories in those collections any good? it feels wasteful spending/buying so much book for just those stories
i know there is a collection of all three that may be released in english this year or next but i wouldnt mind getting a GoT fix
PhoenixDark
Banned
Technically weren't the Others around long before Dany's dragons? Craster had been giving them sons for years. Perhaps they simply weren't interacting with humans (outside of Craster's sacrifices) until the birth of dragons. I always liked the idea that there was some type of truce or treaty between man and Others, and it was somehow breached - thus causing the invasion.
That's what I´m thinking as well.
Craster gave The Others his son´s long before the dragons hatched, and the magic-coming-back timeframe I quoted above.
Basileus777
Member
From how the Wildlings are reacting, it seems as if the Others have been bothering them since before the birth of the dragons, else they simply wouldn't have had the time to organize around Mance like that.
Though a few years isn't long when these things are operating on a scale of hundreds or thousands of years. I doubt the others becoming active and the dragons being reborn at such a close period of time is a coincidence.
Probably not, GRRM has never had a character see the full picture. But this half year timeframe is probably correct.
I always connected the magic with Old Valyria, and the dragons coming from there. And the doom somehow suppressing the magic.
Is it possible, that magic is THE weapon that is simply there to fight the neverending night/WW? And that's the reason its coming back? To have something against them?
word?
well... i dont have the money to buy them all at once, ill see if the woman collection one is still for sale
BertramCooper
Banned
I've got so many other books on my list that I need to read, but I'm really tempted to start a full-series reread of ASOIAF.
I worry that the show is distorting my recollection of details in the books. Not the major stuff, but the smaller details that have been altered or omitted.
And unless Winds of Winter manages to come out early next year (which I'm certainly not betting on), I'm probably going to have to stop watching the show.
I worry that the show is distorting my recollection of details in the books. Not the major stuff, but the smaller details that have been altered or omitted.
And unless Winds of Winter manages to come out early next year (which I'm certainly not betting on), I'm probably going to have to stop watching the show.
Hi there, ex-unsullied here, I only just recently finished all the books about a month ago after having only seen the show. I posted my thoughts a couple pages back (or perhaps that was the Unmarked Show thread). Anywho, I can tell you after reading the books my views on the show and series as a whole changed dramatically for the better. Basically, before reading the books I thought GoT was a good show but not the greatest thing ever, the books rectified that. It's not the show's fault they have a limited time frame and so there is only so much exposition and backstory they can cram into the series whereas the books have no limit.
When I first watched the series I just didn't understand a lot of things even going all the way into the fourth season. Like who the fuck was Rhaegar? Why did he matter? Why are the Targaryens so special? What happened to Ned's family during the Rebellion? Etc. The books easily filled in these questions and it was like flipping a switch in my head, suddenly everything made fucking sense. I mean I can't even remember if I made the connection that Jorah was the Old Bear's son when watching the show.
That said, I kinda wished I hadn't read all the books because #1 Fuck this wait for the next book but most importantly #2 I'm turning into "book reader guy." You know, where I'm upset at every little change from the books and am constantly wondering why they didn't include this scence or that scene. Like seriously, why haven't we seen Stannis wielding "Lightbringer" in all its glowy magic magesty? So yeah...
I'm currently breezing through a reread of the series to help fill the void that ow exists since the season is over and there are no more books to read. I've already read all the Dunk and Egg stories, conclusion being that Bloodraven is a badass.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I wonder if the problems coincide with Mance's search for the horn, which seemingly led the widlings farther north than ever.
"I wasn't frightened. You know nothing, Jon Snow." "Why are you crying then?" "Not for fear!" She kicked savagely at the ice beneath her with a heel, chopping of a chunk. "I'm crying because we never found the Horn of Winter. We opned half a hundred graves and let all those shades loose in the world, and never found the Horn of Joramun to bring this cold thing down!"
Could just be a throwaway line about wildling superstition (desecrating graves), or it could be something else. I think the Others were always around in the far north, and they probably killed the few people who ventured deep enough into their realm. But at some point in AGOT/ACOK their behavior changed. Maybe they became more active due to the rebirth of fire magic, and their agenda is to force a balance (or snuff out fire) for ice. Or maybe men did something to
It's also interesting that while some wildlings get killed by Others/wights, they never get fully attacked like the Night Watch does in ACOK. I know the wildlings had outriders but it's very odd that they don't get wrecked, given how far north they were.
But didn´t Mance lead the search for the horn after he united the clans? And didn´t he unite them to the express purpose to get them away from The Others?
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
I started reading after season 2.
Season 1 is god-tier still.
Season 2 is good but abbreviated and a massive detour, man Clash should've been 2 seasons.
Season 3 was a massive disappointment for the most part.
Season 4 started great but fizzled in the end.
GoT was a lot more detailed than season 1 but it was also a huge drag at points, specifically Cat's boring journey from Winterfell to King's Landing then The Vale or what Sansa wants to wear and how pretty the knights look to her.
Clash was amazing.
Storm is one of the best fictional books I've ever read.
Feast was a drag when not in King's Landing but at least it had decent payoffs. The Lannister twins chapters were very entertaining.
Dance was pretty good until the non-ending.
The Dunk and Eggs are fantastic.
Just started The Princess and The Queen. The Rogue Prince is next obviously.
The only changes I can say that are 100% better in the show is the aging up of characters and not as many prophecies.
But what about the Others in AGOT prologue? It certainly happens before dragons are born (though I don't know how it is in relation to Dany receiving dragon eggs, but iirc it would be slightly after that right), but the rangers could not had been too far to the north. Definitely nowhere close to Lands of Always Winter.
Basileus777
Member
And as I said earlier, if the Others only started attacking after the series started, there wouldn't time for the wildlings to organize and mass up so quickly by ACOK. It's not exactly a small or quick undertaking.
PhoenixDark
Banned
True, you guys are right. My initial response was that Mance could have been in the Frostfangs at the time but I just remembered he was at Winterfell in AGOT; it would be impossible for him to get from the Frostfangs to Winterfell in that timeline.
So they never really truly left, they just became active (beyond Craster) in AGOT, before the dragons were born though. Hmm.
So they never really truly left, they just became active (beyond Craster) in AGOT, before the dragons were born though. Hmm.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
They probably can't find it, being in community and all. Plus, really, how many people know the series is called "a song of ice and fire"?
Everyone who watches the show, where it's right in the credits every week? And presumably everyone who does bother to read the books?
You watch the credits?
Can honestly say I've never seen it in the credits
Honestly, with some of Martin's early erratic travel times he could have been slated to be in both places.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I guess I can see overlooking it in the credits, but it's right in the opening prominently.
And yes, I watch them. I like watching the little locales unfold and I get excited when there's a new one.
Anyway, I do think anyone who becomes sullied has a pretty large chance of knowing the name of the series, between it being in the books and in the credits.
And yes, I watch them. I like watching the little locales unfold and I get excited when there's a new one.
Anyway, I do think anyone who becomes sullied has a pretty large chance of knowing the name of the series, between it being in the books and in the credits.
ToyMachine228
Member
Started a second read through of A Feast for Crows. I'm enjoying much more the second time around. Partly because I'm not rushing through like I was the first time and also I seem to enjoy the books more and more, the more context I have to apply while I'm reading. So between having read the books once, spending countless hours reading theories and wikis, I have a much clearer vision this time through. Definitely doing Dance with Dragons again when I'm done with Feast.
I agree about liking them more the second time. Next time I'm going to try the combined AFFC/ADWD read through.
Agree on both points.
AFFC gets better on a second read through - I rushed through the first time because I wasn't very interested in most of the POVs and didn't realize the geographical split.
Second read through I appreciated (most) of the POVs more and it made things a lot better. I also did my second read through as a combined reading of FFC/DWD which is significantly better. The geographical split was idiotic.
On my re read of the series and I just finished reading affc and adwd combined for the first and it does help improve both books somewhat. Spreading out some of the Brienne and Dany chapters especially makes them more interesting (and bearable) when they do appear. Still bullshit that the battle for Mereen isn't in there though, those last Barristan chapters with him pulling of the coup, Tyrion getting his groove back and Victorians swift approach are so good then NOTHING.
ToyMachine228
Member
I'm already about 170 pages into aFFC so it's probably too late to do the combined thing for me. Is there really a good way to do it aside from looking at the list online and just swapping books?
Also, the reason I rushed the first time was just because I was loving the books so much that I was racing to the end because I wanted to know everything I could know.
Memento Mori
Member
Rereading SOS has cemented Jaime's position as my favourite character in the series. Do most people share my feeling he's going to die before the end? The happiest ending I can realistically envision him getting is leading/helping rebuild the Night's Watch.
ToyMachine228
Member
That would actually be pretty cool but I expect him to go out in some kind of valiant way which will leave him being remembered as such.
elrechazado
Banned
Yes and yes
I always figured he would go out in a pointless Stark-related revenge killing.
Nah dude the dream Jaimie has with him underneath Casterly Rock is the key to his ultimate fate.
BrassDragon
Member
Definitely a prophetic dream, which makes sense because he fell asleep on a weirwood stump. It has the line '“I gave you a sword,” Lord Tywin said.' but this is before Jamie received Oathkeeper.
Not convinced it means Jamie literally dies beneath Casterly Rock though - it may just be where his remains end up, just like his father's (they sent Tywin west with an entourage of knights after the seven day wake in King's Landing.) He also has another dream about his mother, which is interesting:
We already know that Cersei is not destined to be remembered as a great queen. Could be that Jamie, despite his small and large heroics, will also die in infamy.
RobotChant
Member
Yess, welcome to sully-hood. I had a similar experience as you. I was first a show watcher but moved on to the books after I wanted more information than the show was able to provide. I don't fault the show for it's constraints but deviating too much does still bother me.
Being sullied means you can also read all the fan theories and speculations out there. Some great theories out there but also lots of annoying fans. If don't get annoyed by a contingent of the ASOIAF fandom, you haven't explored enough.
Chuckie
Member
So true. I was reading on Westeros.org about a fan theory on dreams and one member disagreed the similarities between dreams had any meaning and that it was probably just a repetition of style by GRRM. Guy had a valid opinion but was said to 'derail' the thread. Almost considered a troll or something.
Memento Mori
Member
I don't mind the theory that Jaime and Cersei are Targaryens as there's some circumstantial evidence there (one's crazy, the other's not etc). Tyrion is most definitely a Lannister though.
Aren't we all serect Targs when we get to the bottom of it, I mean what is a Targ really?
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