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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
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Gonaria said:
Well yeah I think she could get to Westeros, I just dont think she will do much while either. It's simply not possible to cover so many different story arcs and bring them all together in two books along with Dany orchestrating an invasion of Westeros. If she lives on till the end she will probably just get to the Wall and help out with dragons. The ending seems to be going in a very LOTR direction. All the forces will be at the Wall fighting the others but in the end it will likely be Bran, a small kid who will defeat whatever is out there, just like with Frodo. He will turn into a tree and choke the great Other.
brentech said:
You don't think someone's going to succeed with the horn? Honestly, I'm really rooting for that: there was that mention from (I believe) Dany's PoV that the dragonlords of old used sorcery to control the dragons. So the idea of someone swooping in and just magicking the dragons to do his bidding would be pretty cool. I'm sick of them being wild, I want to see their wrath directed and unleashed.
Granted, Victarion is kind of a dick, so I'd prefer someone else claim the horn. Maybe the red priest who's helping him out, or Tyrion for the lulz.
AngmarsKing701
Member
The thing that was so great about this series early on was how personal it was. The Starks vs. The Lannisters, with Robert caught in the middle. Then we had the combined history of these reluctant allies coming to life in the form of Dany and her dragons.
And now?
Well the Starks and the Lannisters still have a role to play, no doubt, but their feud has taken a back seat. And the revelation of Aegon is almost an excuse GRRM created for not getting Dany's ass moving toward Westeros. Aegon is introduced and invades in less than half a book. Meanwhile poor Dany has the dragons but isn't going in the direction we all want her to.
And the Others? They introduced this series, if you'll recall, and 5 books in we still have no clue what role they'll play in the climax of this series.
Here's one thing: I want this series to end from Bran's perspective, staring thru Drogon's eyes as Arya silently slides a blade into Cersei's neck. Seems most of Arya's intended victims are dying, but I hope Cersei lasts until the bitter end for Arya. That would definitely bring the personal back full circle.
And now?
Well the Starks and the Lannisters still have a role to play, no doubt, but their feud has taken a back seat. And the revelation of Aegon is almost an excuse GRRM created for not getting Dany's ass moving toward Westeros. Aegon is introduced and invades in less than half a book. Meanwhile poor Dany has the dragons but isn't going in the direction we all want her to.
And the Others? They introduced this series, if you'll recall, and 5 books in we still have no clue what role they'll play in the climax of this series.
Here's one thing: I want this series to end from Bran's perspective, staring thru Drogon's eyes as Arya silently slides a blade into Cersei's neck. Seems most of Arya's intended victims are dying, but I hope Cersei lasts until the bitter end for Arya. That would definitely bring the personal back full circle.
The Albatross
Member
I read incredibly slowly just ot try to get the most out of it.
I just finished... Had to polish off the last chapters tonight.
Jon?! What?! I almost threw my Kindle on the floor. Time to read threads though.
Did I like the book? Well, I liked reading it, but by about 60% through I realized, "there is not nearly enough time for anything but posturing." Arya's story is basically the same; we've followed Jon through this epic -- led to believe that he is of royal blood, only to have his whole story effectively be made for nought; The storylines involving the Dornish prince was almost useless. For those who read the Dunk & Egg series and have an interest in it, this book carried a lot of weight... The Bran Storyline is still excellent and compelling, but sadly, Bran might have like one or two chapters in the second half of the book. Sure, he is clearly interacting with Theon in Winterfell, but it is still empty.
The history with Brynden Rivers is excellent. We're still left wondering who Cold Hands is. I think that the Iron Born, at least, Viserion are still just posturing. The Iron Born on the island -- the Damphair -- is still, again, posturing. 1,000 pages and none of those story lines have really been furthered, at all, which is frustrating.
THe return of Theon was really well done in this book, even though you really hate him, when you make the connection that Reek is Theon, a little bit of me celebrated. Yet still, it's a lot of build up and posturing for no resolution.
I am also going on the idea that the letter from Ramsay Bolton to Jon Snow was at least a partial lie, in that I do not think that the Bolton's have Stannis.
Anyway. Disappointed that the book is over and so little seems to have been furthered. You still get a glorious look into the world, perhaps more so than any of the other books, but at about 75% through I realized I will only be disappointed by the book, because there was no way to resolve the issues. And, well, I was disappointingly right.
I just finished... Had to polish off the last chapters tonight.
Jon?! What?! I almost threw my Kindle on the floor. Time to read threads though.
Did I like the book? Well, I liked reading it, but by about 60% through I realized, "there is not nearly enough time for anything but posturing." Arya's story is basically the same; we've followed Jon through this epic -- led to believe that he is of royal blood, only to have his whole story effectively be made for nought; The storylines involving the Dornish prince was almost useless. For those who read the Dunk & Egg series and have an interest in it, this book carried a lot of weight... The Bran Storyline is still excellent and compelling, but sadly, Bran might have like one or two chapters in the second half of the book. Sure, he is clearly interacting with Theon in Winterfell, but it is still empty.
The history with Brynden Rivers is excellent. We're still left wondering who Cold Hands is. I think that the Iron Born, at least, Viserion are still just posturing. The Iron Born on the island -- the Damphair -- is still, again, posturing. 1,000 pages and none of those story lines have really been furthered, at all, which is frustrating.
THe return of Theon was really well done in this book, even though you really hate him, when you make the connection that Reek is Theon, a little bit of me celebrated. Yet still, it's a lot of build up and posturing for no resolution.
I am also going on the idea that the letter from Ramsay Bolton to Jon Snow was at least a partial lie, in that I do not think that the Bolton's have Stannis.
Anyway. Disappointed that the book is over and so little seems to have been furthered. You still get a glorious look into the world, perhaps more so than any of the other books, but at about 75% through I realized I will only be disappointed by the book, because there was no way to resolve the issues. And, well, I was disappointingly right.
AngmarsKing701 said:
I just want the final two books to focus on the Starks, the Wall, and the resolution of all the conflicts. I'm worried however that we are gonna have ten chapters dedicated to Greyjoys and Martells and whoever else is out there. George did say however that there will be no new POVs from now on. The POVs in Dance are the final additions, so that gives me hope.
The Albatross
Member
The small lords and families all do have roles to play, but I feel as though they are not furthered quickly enough. Theon's story in ADWD justifies his chapters in the previous four books; Asha's as well, they are relevant to the Stark - Lannister - Targaryan story. But, those stories get so bogged down by Viserion -- okay he's off raving and he's heading over to Essos... like we need another suitor for Dany ... and The Damphair, who, IMO, doesn't make a shred of sense to me.
THen we also have that story line from the beginning of Book 4 and the end of Book 4 in Old Town, with what was certainly a faceless man doing some nefarious things to get access... to something I've forgotten about... How is that going to tie in with ol Samwell?
There is just a lot that... I'm not sure how GRRM is going to tie it in with two more books. I am a little frustrated with this one... So many pages, so much description, so little happening. It's very excellent writing and it sets a scene excellently, but like a great example is at the end... when I'm really cherishing pages... and 8 or 9 pages is spent on Dany wandering through the Dothraki sea thinking that she's sick or has her 'moon blood' or something, and, well, oh, no, none of that matters because she's find Drogon and encounters a hostile Khalisar. I felt almost like I did with the Sopranos, thinking, "okay, sure, this is good, I get it, good stuff... but... what about the story?"
Couple questions I just popped into my head:
a) Does anybody think that Jon Snow got greyscale? He was very obviously warned of Queen Selise's daughter (Blanking on the name) having Greyscale... ANd in the final chapter when he reaches for his sword, his hand can't move to grip the handle, and it seems to give his sad conspirators a real chance to seize him. I might read through some of it to see hints at that again.
b) Jon Snow is warned pretty feverishly about the fool in Queen Selise's entourage, Patchface. We've seen a lot of him in the series, especially for just being a fool. Melisandra allows him to be around. Stannis allows him. Selise allows him. And you always suspect there's something sinister about him -- Davos never seemed to trust him in Book 2, and neither did the guy who starts off the pro-logue of book 2. finally you get that dire warning from Val about Patchface. So, what's the deal with Patchface?
*EDIT*
Oh, also I don't believe that Jon is dead. Seems to much like a typical GRRM "death." I've always gone by the belief in these books that when a guy is dead, you KNOW he is dead. When a POV is killed in their own chapter, I can't think of any example where it actually happened (not counting the non-named POVs like the prologues and epiloques).
THen we also have that story line from the beginning of Book 4 and the end of Book 4 in Old Town, with what was certainly a faceless man doing some nefarious things to get access... to something I've forgotten about... How is that going to tie in with ol Samwell?
There is just a lot that... I'm not sure how GRRM is going to tie it in with two more books. I am a little frustrated with this one... So many pages, so much description, so little happening. It's very excellent writing and it sets a scene excellently, but like a great example is at the end... when I'm really cherishing pages... and 8 or 9 pages is spent on Dany wandering through the Dothraki sea thinking that she's sick or has her 'moon blood' or something, and, well, oh, no, none of that matters because she's find Drogon and encounters a hostile Khalisar. I felt almost like I did with the Sopranos, thinking, "okay, sure, this is good, I get it, good stuff... but... what about the story?"
Couple questions I just popped into my head:
a) Does anybody think that Jon Snow got greyscale? He was very obviously warned of Queen Selise's daughter (Blanking on the name) having Greyscale... ANd in the final chapter when he reaches for his sword, his hand can't move to grip the handle, and it seems to give his sad conspirators a real chance to seize him. I might read through some of it to see hints at that again.
b) Jon Snow is warned pretty feverishly about the fool in Queen Selise's entourage, Patchface. We've seen a lot of him in the series, especially for just being a fool. Melisandra allows him to be around. Stannis allows him. Selise allows him. And you always suspect there's something sinister about him -- Davos never seemed to trust him in Book 2, and neither did the guy who starts off the pro-logue of book 2. finally you get that dire warning from Val about Patchface. So, what's the deal with Patchface?
*EDIT*
Oh, also I don't believe that Jon is dead. Seems to much like a typical GRRM "death." I've always gone by the belief in these books that when a guy is dead, you KNOW he is dead. When a POV is killed in their own chapter, I can't think of any example where it actually happened (not counting the non-named POVs like the prologues and epiloques).
Speaking of deaths, it took until about three quarters of the way through A Clash of Kings before I accepted that Ned wasn't coming back, and that he wasn't replaced with a double and he was secretly still in the dungeons of the Red Keep.
I think I just latched on to a part where they show Sansa his head on the wall, and she says something like "It doesn't even look like him."
That death still makes me sad : (
I think I just latched on to a part where they show Sansa his head on the wall, and she says something like "It doesn't even look like him."
That death still makes me sad : (
AngmarsKing701 said:
Yeah, I think part of the problem with the Others story is that there is no clear victory condition against them right now. If the Great Other is a god, then it probably can't be killed. And although Jon is awfully worried about them, there is still no evidence that the Others are trying to attack the Wall.
That wasn't what was so great about the series early on, plenty of other things made them great. And while Starks vs. Lannisters was good for the first three books, I don't think it was going to carry the weight of the story throughout all seven books without it coming to a stalemate around the third book. Red Wedding was a perfect conclusion for that part of the story. Now the Lannisters won but the Starks weren't beaten completely, so there's a possibility of a comeback.AngmarsKing701 said:
That's pretty much because 1) Lannisters WON that feud (at least for now) and 2) all the Starks have gone to hiding (to perhaps rise again and at least one of them to get the North back), and Lannisters are falling from their place of power. I don't see it as a bad thing at all that the game of thrones has expanded. If anything it has made things much more interesting and unpredictable. With so many players, who on earth is going to win and how?
That's because Aegon has been grown for that for all his life (he has the money and the backing of some major players) whereas Dany was nothing but a bargaining chip until the latter parts of Game of Thrones, something very much expendable. And once she wasn't, she WAS going to Westeros with a huge army, but then Drogo and their child died and she was nothing again, meaning she was somewhat irrelevant to people like Illyrio again (until he heard she got dem dragons).
I think people have really just expected the wrong things from her story (which pretty much comes down to "Dany goes to Westeros and with her dragons she PWNS everyone and marries Jon Targaryen"). I'm not sure if it had been that good if she had gotten to Westeros early on and become a part of the The Game more directly by the end of, like, ACOK. For her, one of the toughest parts will really just be getting to Westeros as a Queen worthy of the Targaryen name (and not a beggar like her brother), to really EARN it. Of course this is assuming she's going to have any kind of happy(-ish) ending and not be killed within the first 6 pages of TWOW.
How is that a bad thing? We've still got two more massive-ass books to go, if we knew what they'd do within the next 1000-2000 pages, that would mean GRRM had written some seriously predictable shit.
We've already had confrontations with them that've shown them to be a real threat and know they've been a PITA for the wildlings fleeing south. By the end of A Dance With Dragons, they are really becoming a much bigger part of the story. It's pretty clear (based on the name of it) that The Winds of Winter will see the Others becoming a major threat, kind of like how there was a massive wildling army on the other side of the Wall in ASOS, though the Others will likely be more successive in their attempts to get on the south-side of it than the wildlings.
And when it comes to ending ASOIAF in two books, I think it's somewhat manageable. You might think all the current storylines going on need some epic conclusions that'll all take 500 pages to describe, but many of them don't have to take that long at all. We don't know how this book series is ultimately gonna end (who are going to be alive for more than 2 chapters, what they are going to (try to) do, what "fate" has in store for them otherwise), so really, trying to judge how long it's going to take to finish it isn't possible, at this point.
I mean, if you think about someone like Robb... Before ASOS, you'd be all like "yeah, he has to go take back the North and then he'll be going South again to destroy the Lannisters." Instead, we had all that go away in the span of 1-2 chapters with the Red Wedding. Of course that itself created a lot of other subplots (Arya ending up in Braavos, Lady Stoneheart, Bolton taking the North, Lannisters securing their place in King's Landing for a while), but that's a given considering it's a big event taking place near the half-point in the storyline.
Much in a similar way people think Dany's role in Westeros has to be this huge ordeal, but I don't think it's too far-fetched to have her arrive there and then do whatever she'll end up doing in a relatively short time. You might think she'd have to have these storylines involving some epic battles related to invading all of the Seven Kingdoms, uniting them after some hardships and then beating the Others, but that simply doesn't need to happen and I'm pretty sure, given GRRM's track record, that it WON'T happen (would be too predictable and, really, he doesn't have enough pages left for such storylines).
In the worst case scenario, I could see them splitting A Dream of Spring into part 1 & part 2 due to it growing so big that it's not possible to release it in one big-ass book, like they've done to A Storm of Swords in some parts of the world, but there really not being an 8th differently named book in the series.
Victarion clearly has at least one role in the future for Dany: ships, tons of them. Of course that will come at a price or at least not without any hardships with Victarion, probably, but Dany can't get any kind of army to Westeros without ships. And with Meireen's surrounding's lack of trees + other slaver cities being at war with Dany, she doesn't have many options for them.
I'm not so sure about finishing things up in the next 2 books, mainly because the pace really dropped off with the last 2. There weren't many major developments in A Feast for Crows, but that was fine. Jaime's and Cersie's chapters were great, Dorne was interesting... and there was always the sense that there was going to be a lot of action in ADWD, especially considering just how aware the Westeros were becoming of Dany and her dragons. Instead of all that, Dany is stuck with Mereene's problems the whole time.
Now all of that has to be moved to the next book(meeting Tyrion, Victarion, Maesters, Illyrio) and we don't even know how long she's gonna be stuck in the Sea of Grass before supposedly coming back to Mereene to resolve that issue. Actually, until the very last chapter of ADWD I thought that she was just gonna take a quick ride on Drogon's back around Valyria or something like that and return. So there's all of that to go. Obviously "The Others" are going to have to be fleshed out. At some point, we need to figure how all the red priests and their R'hlorr fit into things, what remains of the Lannisters... and those are only the obvious storylines, everyone gets derailed all the time anyway. It just seems like too much stuff to fit into 2 books, not at ADWD's pace, that's for sure.
Now all of that has to be moved to the next book(meeting Tyrion, Victarion, Maesters, Illyrio) and we don't even know how long she's gonna be stuck in the Sea of Grass before supposedly coming back to Mereene to resolve that issue. Actually, until the very last chapter of ADWD I thought that she was just gonna take a quick ride on Drogon's back around Valyria or something like that and return. So there's all of that to go. Obviously "The Others" are going to have to be fleshed out. At some point, we need to figure how all the red priests and their R'hlorr fit into things, what remains of the Lannisters... and those are only the obvious storylines, everyone gets derailed all the time anyway. It just seems like too much stuff to fit into 2 books, not at ADWD's pace, that's for sure.
darkwing said:
Honestly, I hope it is.
And with all of the incredibly stupid shit that has gone down, I hope it will end on a Blake's 7 note, with humanity getting utterly and deservedly wiped the fuck out and the last book's title being irony.
i.e. there simply is not A Time For Wolves - the last words reading "...and, sadly, there would not be a time for wolves", as it were.
How does one come across these?The Albatross said:
I've found titles: The Hedge Knight · The Sworn Sword · The Mystery Knight
But I have no idea if they are separate books or parts of his short story collections as I once believe I read. I'd like to get my hands on them, preferably eBook versions.
Anyone, please help a man out.
About Dany's house of the undying visions in ACOK.. Did she see Rhaegar and Elia or Rhaegar and Lyanna? I have seen a few people say it was Elia, but Rhaegar states the child's song is the song of Ice and Fire (ie Stark and Targaryen) and I assumed it was relatively obvious that the woman was Lyanna.
QueenOfThorns
Member
I just hope the next books can get back to the story. I understand AFFC and ADWD being mostly filler (to cover what was supposed to happen during the timeskip. There's no real way you can make that really exciting if the major plot lines are supposed to happen after, but still.) but I don't know if I could handle it if the next book goes at the same snails pace.
Here's hoping.
Here's hoping.
I always thought it was Elia. Doesn't he say something about needing another child? Because the dragon has 3 heads. He already had a daughter, and this babe was Aegon.barnone said:
Also, we're given clues that Lyanna dies during childbirth. Blood on the bed, and Ned comes away with the newborn. So Rhaegar and Lyanna with a baby would've never happened, and the scene from the Undying felt like a glimpse from the past.
Edit: derp. from the wiki:
brentech said:
The Dunk & Egg books are highly recommended. Not only are they good stories on their own, they also give more background information on people and events in ASoIaF.
They appeared in story bundles.
The Hedge Knight in Legends
The Sworn Sword in Legends II
The first two also appeared in ( awesome ) comic form: http://marvel.com/comic_books/issue/5750/hedge_knight_vol_1_hardcover
The Mystery Knight can be found in the Warriors Anthology
The pace dropped because GRRM expanded the story a lot. They had to introduce new players, which can't happen in a few pages, otherwise the new people would seem much less fleshed out than the old ones.TTG said:
Now everything is pretty much in its place and GRRM should be able to start advancing the story forward instead of building new places, characters & storylines.
And, again, I really think that Dany needed to go through what happened in ADWD. She's stronger for it. She had shown that she has a good grasp of strategy in warfare, but she was really inexperienced when it came to ruling people (being good in one doesn't make a person good in something else; just because she could win against Meereen doesn't mean she'd be good as the ruler of it). Besides, I personally just don't think it was the time in the story to take Dany to Westeros in ADWD or books before that. I wouldn't really be surprised if Dany didn't arrive to Westeros until in A Dream of Spring.
The thing is, with the help of Victarion, Tyrion and possibly the Dothraki (if Dany can win them on her side again), the situation in Meereen & with the other slaver cities could perhaps be solved quite quickly and as Aegon's situation shows, GRRM can be quick in getting people from one place to another at a quick pace when there's nothing on the journey that needs to happen (i.e. Tyrion finding out Aegon's identity & his words sending him towards Westeros instead of Dany, Tyrion's character development from an almost suicidal level to someone who has a purpose in life again). Tyrion could turn the Second Sons against their current employers, Victarion can resolve the problem with the warships surrounding Meereen and the Dothraki could be used to perhaps bring mayhem to the other Slaver Cities while they have all their troops at & are focused on Meereen, to make the slavers bend their knee once & for all.
We've now got at least three red priests, their agenda can be revealed & taken forward with all three of them (revealing one thing about R'hllor & stuff with Melisandre, taking it forward with that one red priest who is currently with Victarion, then there's that flaming sword one with Lady Stoneheart, forgot his name). The Others are probably going to tie very closely to that part of the story, so they don't need to be this completely separate thing from everything else.
And while yeah, people's storylines do get derailed, they do affect each other quite often and the derails can have a big impact on other characters (i.e. Stannis going from planning how to best conquer King's Landing to going to a completely different place and having a huge impact on Jon & the whole North's storyline).
PhoenixDark
Banned
KingK said:
Depends on the character. I was pretty bummed when I finished Dany's horrible last chapter in ADWD and realized Kevan was the epilogue character. I had been looking forward to seeing how he dealt with the Tyrells, and more of his clashes with Cersei.
Dany's vision, if an actual window into past events, is of Rhaegar and Elia and the birth of baby Aegon. In this case, when Rhaegar says he is the prince who was promised, he's intentionally made out to be wrong. This is a recurring theme with the Targaryens, where they are always seeking to fulfill their prophecies and bring back dragons, the prince who was promised, etc, but they always miss the mark. This obsession with fulfilling the prophecy leads directly or indirectly to the death of most Targaryens we've encountered (sans Dany/Jon).barnone said:
But the central object of the prophecy is Jon Snow. His is literally the Song of Ice and Fire. As for Aegon, he will likely tragically go out like a chump (thereby demonstrating that his sudden return is not a "cheat"). And of course, because the dragon has three heads, Dany will also enter the final equation, along with a third non-Aegon individual.
IamMattFox
Member
It's a parallel of Cersei's walk back to the Red Keep. Both queens are at their lowest points at the end of a Dance with Dragons doing their bald walks of shame and/or failure, and they're both going to totally rise up and reclaim their former glory in the next one.The Albatross said:
Either:barnone said:
(a) Because the prophecy he has been focusing on specifically is of "Ice and Fire," so that's what he's going by, and if he thinks it applies to Aegon, he would obviously be wrong.
or
(b) Because the vision is not simply a direct retelling of events, but a partially confabulated way to give Dany perspective on important events to come. If this is the case, it could even be Lyanna that is shown with Rhaegar, even though we know this could have never happened in the real events of the story.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Targs: Fire
Starks: Ice
I like it.
Starks: Ice
I like it.
It's funny that we still don't know what the title of whole series is actually referring to. I was hoping to see Marwyn from the Citadel show up in Meereen and drop some wisdom on the matter. But maybe it'll be better if Vic rips his head off in dramatic fashion and leaves the prophecy in obscurity. He doesn't like maesters.
There are some other interesting visions from the House of the Undying. And this is just the second book.
5) a cloth dragon amidst a cheering crowd; -- the mummer's dragon (Aegon) receiving a warm welcome in Westeros? watch out for fire
8) a corpse at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, smiling sadly; -- sounds like Aemon? dies on a ship, blind, but sees the truth about Dany and AA at the end
15) a line of naked crones emerging from a lake, kneeling before Daenerys beneath the Mother of Mountains; -- aha, who wants to guess where Dany takes her new khalasar after leaving Meereen
There are some other interesting visions from the House of the Undying. And this is just the second book.
5) a cloth dragon amidst a cheering crowd; -- the mummer's dragon (Aegon) receiving a warm welcome in Westeros? watch out for fire
8) a corpse at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, smiling sadly; -- sounds like Aemon? dies on a ship, blind, but sees the truth about Dany and AA at the end
15) a line of naked crones emerging from a lake, kneeling before Daenerys beneath the Mother of Mountains; -- aha, who wants to guess where Dany takes her new khalasar after leaving Meereen
tokkun said:
Yeah he does. I really doubt it's Aemon.
The "corpse" was grouped between a vision of her horse (Drogo) and a blue flower (Jon Snow), followed by "bride of fire", so it's highly likely that he represents a husband.
I'm particulary intrigued about the prow part and smiling sadly. Seems like someone in a bad spot who has accepted his fate. Theon is a possiblity, but the link is a bit weak.
Rubashov said:
A song of ice and fire...
I thought this was pretty obviously in reference to Jon being Stark + Targ.
But then again, Martin has probably changed a lot of things from what he originally intended, just to spite everyone who figured out his intent due to not liking the perception that he's not as smart as he likes to think he is.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Rubashov said:
Aemon wasn't at the prow and didn't have blue lips though. Victarion fits better.
I really don't want to see Dany free anyone else. Just go back to Mereen and end the war please
I'll re-hash my feelings from 'Jon's death needs to have a reason' to 'I have a problem with GRRM killing off characters that have 5 books worth of time invested into them, and are one of very few characters worth rooting for, with only half a page of description and a following 5 year cliffhanger'.
His 'death' had no impact on me unlike many of the others, (although he's started to get pretty obsessed in making deaths up-in-the-air) it doesn't feel certain, it feels unnecessary on his part and it leaves us with a big hole for his kind of character.
His 'death' had no impact on me unlike many of the others, (although he's started to get pretty obsessed in making deaths up-in-the-air) it doesn't feel certain, it feels unnecessary on his part and it leaves us with a big hole for his kind of character.
pr0cs
Member
Rubashov said:
sounds like Connington to me
I can't believe people are so anxious to get the story done and HAS to be done in 2 books. I guess I'm the kind of reader that hopes stories as good as these never end.. do you sit back during a great movie and say "shit when will this awesomeness end?"
The corpse's lips are gray, not blue. But I wouldn't be surprised to see either color on a corpse. Gray could be a clue that it was an older man, though. Aside from the description of him "standing at the prow," I think it fits Aemon nicely. He was happy to find out about Dany, having thought for years that Rhaegar was the prince that was promised, only to hear of his death and subsequent ruin of his house. He saw the truth of the prophecy and even chuckled that it was all down to an error in translation. What's the opposite of a dead man with bright eyes: a living one with cloudy cataracts. He was her great-great-uncle, and would have been a boon to her development had he lived long enough to join her. So seeing a vision of his tragic death would be relevant to her.PhoenixDark said:
Dany probably doesn't want to free the Dothraki. As someone else suggested here, she would do well to destroy them and put an end to the slave trade at the source. We've seen before that she had contempt for the old khaleesi crones, and she swore that she wouldn't honor that tradition to join them. The actual text:
(Again we see gray, and this time it's definitely describing old people.) Naked and shivering, hopefully from fear. I want to see Dany burn those bitches out.
elrechazado
Banned
I disagree - if anything we have even more storylines coming out of dwd. Aegon, who didn't exist before now in the story, connington, davos going to find rickon....tons of "off main story" threads that have now come to be. I'm not saying I don't like them, but the story continues to expand, rather than gather together.Famassu said:
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