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A vehicle has been driven into people in the Swedish capital Stockholm, injuring many

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We have our disagreements, but I totally agree with you on this.
Utterly delusional. Accepting refugees is ingrained in European society since '51 and even earlier. Going against that after incidents over the past 3 years indicates a severe lack of legal and historic insight, not to mention a barbaric lack of compassion.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Hotlines, early interventions, educating relevant state and municipality staff to identify radicalisation, media and police investigation and supervision, NGOs doing their share (Save the Children, VHEK, etc). What have you been doing?

Are you Swedish? The segregation in our suburbs is off the charts, with gang violence, radicalization, and other shit as a result. Whatever people are trying to do about it is not doing much. And much of it has to do with early intervention and such, and while I agree that's important it won't have a noticeable effect for 10 years. What about NOW? What about us who live in these cities? Deal with it? I used to live in a Gothenburg suburb, and have probably heard gunshots more times than many (maybe even most) Americans on this forum. Thankfully I now live more centrally. Now, that's​ gang violence, not radicalized Islam, but they grow in the same environments.

As for me, not sure exactly what I can do. I am engaged in the humanist community, which I think is very important. Religion is the root of much the evil in the world, and Islam in particular is a huge problem.
 

Kagutaba

Member
The Prime Minister is walking through central Stockholm right now - greeting and talking to the people on his way back to Parliament.
 
Are you Swedish? The segregation in our suburbs is off the charts, with gang violence, radicalization, and other shit as a result. Whatever people are trying to do about it is not doing much. And much of it has to do with early intervention and such, and while I agree that's important it won't have a noticeable effect for 10 years. What about NOW? What about us who live in these cities? Deal with it? I used to live in a Gothenburg suburb, and have heard gunshots more times than many (maybe even most) Americans on this forum. Thankfully I now live more centrally. Now, that's​ gang violence, not radicalized Islam, but they grow in the same environments.
Are YOU fucking swedish? How can you not understand that working with the current issues will take time? Every, single, party elected in government is involved in making efforts to deal with the minority of radicalized individuals. You have people calling for bans of refugees (not immigrants or people in need of protection), fucking refugees, as a solution to a guy getting into a truck and running people over. You want to solve integration NOW when we have taken in an unprecedented amount protection seekers the last three years, most will take at least two years to even be proficient at swedish. Given time, and given the efforts currently being made, the outlook is not doomsday or even stagnation.

Your statement "not doing much" is fucking worthless, take a back seat and let people do their job.

Humanist, hah.
 

Ozorov

Member
Press conference right now:

* Four dead, 15 wounded. 8 still at hospital. 1 suspect arrested for terrorism. Very likely the right man. Searching for other suspects. They have found a "thing" in the truck that, can't say what it is yet. (bomb etc).
 

strafer

member
Press conference right now:

* Four dead, 15 wounded. 8 still at hospital. 1 suspect arrested for terrorism. Very likely the right man. Searching for other suspects. They have found a "thing" in the truck that, can't say what it is yet. (bomb etc).

I thought it was confirmed to be a bomb and that the suspect got burned by it.
 

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
I believe our country is one whose foundation is comprised of notions such as peace, civility and understanding. However the ripple effects of this tragedy play out I have faith that those core values remain as prevalent as ever when the wounds are healed.
 

Staf

Member
Are you Swedish? The segregation in our suburbs is off the charts, with gang violence, radicalization, and other shit as a result. Whatever people are trying to do about it is not doing much. And much of it has to do with early intervention and such, and while I agree that's important it won't have a noticeable effect for 10 years. What about NOW? What about us who live in these cities? Deal with it? I used to live in a Gothenburg suburb, and have probably heard gunshots more times than many (maybe even most) Americans on this forum. Thankfully I now live more centrally. Now, that's​ gang violence, not radicalized Islam, but they grow in the same environments.

As for me, not sure exactly what I can do. I am engaged in the humanist community, which I think is very important. Religion is the root of much the evil in the world, and Islam in particular is a huge problem.

Let me guess, you lived in Biskopsgården. I did a few years while at university and it was freaking terrifying. I too now live more centrally and safer, Hjalmar brantingsplatsen. There are parts in Gothenburg like Biskopsgården and Angered that i will never ever set my foot in.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Swedish prosecutors Hans Ihrman confirms that the suspect detained over Friday's deadly truck attack is a 39-year-old Uzbekistan-born man.

The head of Sweden's domestic intelligence agency says the man had been on authorities' radar some time ago.

Anders Thornberg, head of the Swedish Security Service, said "the suspect didn't appear in our recent files but he earlier has been in our files."

He said the security services are working with other nations' security agencies on the matter, but declined to elaborate.

Source: https://apnews.com/1a8d5196938440c3...n=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP
 
Swedish prosecutors Hans Ihrman confirms that the suspect detained over Friday's deadly truck attack is a 39-year-old Uzbekistan-born man.

The head of Sweden's domestic intelligence agency says the man had been on authorities' radar some time ago.

Anders Thornberg, head of the Swedish Security Service, said "the suspect didn't appear in our recent files but he earlier has been in our files."

He said the security services are working with other nations' security agencies on the matter, but declined to elaborate.

Source: https://apnews.com/1a8d5196938440c3...n=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

Has there been a recent terror attack in Europe where the perpetrator wasn't on a watch list at some point?
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Are YOU fucking swedish? How can you not understand that working with the current issues will take time? Every, single, party elected in government is involved in making efforts to deal with the minority of radicalized individuals. You have people calling for bans of refugees (not immigrants or people in need of protection), fucking refugees, as a solution to a guy getting into a truck and running people over. You want to solve integration NOW when we have taken in an unprecedented amount protection seekers the last three years, most will take at least two years to even be proficient at swedish. Given time, and given the efforts currently being made, the outlook is not doomsday or even stagnation.

Your statement "not doing much" is fucking worthless, take a back seat and let people do their job.

Humanist, hah.

During the 9 years I lived right in one of the more problematic neighborhoods I didn't see any sign of progress. It was the same parallel society the day I left as the day I arrived (possibly even a bit worse, since the gang violence escalated during the years I lived there), full of people who don't feel like they're part of Swedish society, and often don't seem to want to be either. Many don't know Swedish even after many years, most don't have jobs, their kids grow up feeling like outcasts, etc. So no, in my experience it hasn't been working. This has nothing to do with the recent immigrant influx of course, since the people I'm talking about were there way before that, but that sure isn't gonna make this easier going forward. We're gonna have these issues for a long, long time, and it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

Do you, or have you, lived in one of these neighborhoods? Otherwise your opinions about them are frankly not that interesting.
 

MANUELF

Banned
Swedish prosecutors Hans Ihrman confirms that the suspect detained over Friday's deadly truck attack is a 39-year-old Uzbekistan-born man.

The head of Sweden's domestic intelligence agency says the man had been on authorities' radar some time ago.

Anders Thornberg, head of the Swedish Security Service, said "the suspect didn't appear in our recent files but he earlier has been in our files."

He said the security services are working with other nations' security agencies on the matter, but declined to elaborate.

Source: https://apnews.com/1a8d5196938440c3...n=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP
At least he wasnt a refugee
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Let me guess, you lived in Biskopsgården. I did a few years while at university and it was freaking terrifying. I too now live more centrally and safer, Hjalmar brantingsplatsen. There are parts in Gothenburg like Biskopsgården and Angered that i will never ever set my foot in.

Yep! While nothing that bad ever happened to me personally (except getting robbed and beaten to the ground once), and I wasn't really afraid of getting shot or whatever, I'm very glad to be out of there. Nobody feels safe in these neighborhoods, nobody wants to live there (no ordinary law-abiding person anyway).
 

d00d3n

Member
Are YOU fucking swedish? How can you not understand that working with the current issues will take time? Every, single, party elected in government is involved in making efforts to deal with the minority of radicalized individuals. You have people calling for bans of refugees (not immigrants or people in need of protection), fucking refugees, as a solution to a guy getting into a truck and running people over. You want to solve integration NOW when we have taken in an unprecedented amount protection seekers the last three years, most will take at least two years to even be proficient at swedish. Given time, and given the efforts currently being made, the outlook is not doomsday or even stagnation.

Your statement "not doing much" is fucking worthless, take a back seat and let people do their job.

Humanist, hah.

That is the thing though. There is an ever decreasing willingness among our citizens to let the proponents of accepting refugees and enacting massive social programs for immigrants "do their job". Are you aware that our far right party consistently polls at 18% in serious polls these days, which will possibly translate to 30% or more in the actual election (based on how wrong polls were in our last general election)?
 

Staf

Member
Yep! While nothing that bad ever happened to me personally (except getting robbed and beaten to the ground once), and I wasn't really afraid of getting shot or whatever, I'm very glad to be out of there. Nobody feels safe in these neighborhoods, nobody wants to live there (no ordinary law-abiding person anyway).

I sure as hell don't miss the paranoid walk/runs to the apartment from the cable carts stops after a night out.
 
That is the thing though. There is an ever decreasing willingness among our citizens to let the proponents of accepting refugees and enacting massive social programs for immigrants "do their job". Are you aware that our far right party consistently polls at 18% in serious polls these days, which will possibly translate to 30% or more in the actual election (based on how wrong polls were in our last general election)?

Lol, get real. The Sweden Democrats ain't getting 30% next election. Polls were very off before the last election, but after, they showed the same results as the election results. Whatever systematic bias issues the polls had before the 2014 election seem to have been ironed out
 

Staf

Member
That is the thing though. There is an ever decreasing willingness among our citizens to let the proponents of accepting refugees and enacting massive social programs for immigrants "do their job". Are you aware that our far right party consistently polls at 18% in serious polls these days, which will possibly translate to 30% or more in the actual election (based on how wrong polls were in our last general election)?

I really really hope the far-right party, SD, won't get that much in the next election. I would never vote for them but i still want less immigration and society to put reasonable expectations on immigrants who do come here. But not to the extent SD does.
 
During the 9 years I lived right in one of the more problematic neighborhoods I didn't see any sign of progress. It was the same parallel society the day I left as the day I arrived (possibly even a bit worse, since the gang violence escalated during the years I lived there), full of people who don't feel like they're part of Swedish society, and often don't seem to want to be either. Many don't know Swedish even after many years, most don't have jobs, their kids grow up feeling like outcasts, etc. So no, in my experience it hasn't been working. This has nothing to do with the recent immigrant influx of course, since the people I'm talking about were there way before that, but that sure isn't gonna make this easier going forward. We're gonna have these issues for a long, long time, and it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

Do you, or have you, lived in one of these neighborhoods? Otherwise your opinions about them are frankly not that interesting.
My grandfather lived in Bergsjön for 20-some years. He got beaten up a couple times when out late at night but that was during the 90:s. I lived in his apartment for 3 years, more recently I have friends who have moved during the height of violence a couple of years ago. I'm wondering which major cities we are making comparisons to where there aren't areas that are considered more or less unsafe than others?

Obviously plenty of people want to live in areas like Biskopsgården and Bergsjön, so that's just false what you say. Maybe your humanist views will isolate you from people who value religion or people who look like they might?
That is the thing though. There is an ever decreasing willingness among our citizens to let the proponents of accepting refugees and enacting massive social programs for immigrants "do their job". Are you aware that our far right party consistently polls at 18% in serious polls these days, which will possibly translate to 30% or more in the actual election (based on how wrong polls were in our last general election)?
Again misusing the term refugee. You're not getting away from refugees, sorry. Not even with SD. Affiliating with SD is still considered political poison and for good reason. Not sure if you are aware, but we have a temporary law in place. The Migration Office is cutting down staff by more than 50%. The work of "winding down" the application process is well underway and I suppose you're aware that those funds will be transferred to other areas where work needs to be done. The far right is polling at 18%, yes, but their voters are as clueless as their politicians. You would not be able to enact more than is already being done under the current temporary law. Once its effects become visible for even the SD proponents the "sympathisers" will go someplace else, as they're a one issue party (other than appealing to people with “christian” values).
 

verbatimo

Member
During the 9 years I lived right in one of the more problematic neighborhoods I didn't see any sign of progress. It was the same parallel society the day I left as the day I arrived (possibly even a bit worse, since the gang violence escalated during the years I lived there), full of people who don't feel like they're part of Swedish society, and often don't seem to want to be either. Many don't know Swedish even after many years, most don't have jobs, their kids grow up feeling like outcasts, etc. So no, in my experience it hasn't been working. This has nothing to do with the recent immigrant influx of course, since the people I'm talking about were there way before that, but that sure isn't gonna make this easier going forward. We're gonna have these issues for a long, long time, and it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

Do you, or have you, lived in one of these neighborhoods? Otherwise your opinions about them are frankly not that interesting.

This week Kalla Fakta showed a Sweden where women and girls are growing up in suburban patriarchal parallel societies, sometimes completely under of honor oppression. Women can't go to cafe or go to bar or dress how they want.

Most damning thing was gender apartheid in school buses where girls are forced to sit in the back and girls had to enter the bus from the backdoor. It seems segregation process starts at the very young age.

The situation has become worse. In the summer of 2015 wrote feminist Zeliha Dagli about how fundamentalism shadow spread out over Husby.

She was ridiculed by fundamentalists and was ignored by many leftist feminists and she had to leave the suburb because of islamist forces in the area.

http://www.expressen.se/kvp/kroniko...fakta-sluta-visa-tolerans-for-kvinnofortryck/
 

Kurdel

Banned
I believe our country is one whose foundation is comprised of notions such as peace, civility and understanding. However the ripple effects of this tragedy play out I have faith that those core values remain as prevalent as ever when the wounds are healed.

The Patriot Act has been prolonged to 2019 by Obama.

We must not give in to fear our of confidence that things will go back to normal eventually.
 

d00d3n

Member
Lol, get real. The Sweden Democrats ain't getting 30% next election. Polls were very off before the last election, but after, they showed the same results as the election results. Whatever systematic bias issues the polls had before the 2014 election seem to have been ironed out

I am sorry, but your logic makes zero sense. The difference between polling results and actual voting patterns can be resolved on election day, not before it. In the last election, there was a massive disparity between the polling and the actual results. What is your basis for the notion that systematic bias issues have been ironed out? As far as I know, the serious polling institutes in Sweden do not make adjustments for the shame associated with voting for the Sweden Democrats that made so many people lie to pollsters going into the last election. The less serious polling institutes make such adjustments, but some of these polled the Sweden Democrats at 25-30% a couple of years ago already.

Also, the practical system for voting will probably be changed for the next general election, which could possibly be beneficial for the Sweden Democrats. In the past, we have had a system where voters picked up voting ballots publicly, allowing other people to see if you picked up a ballot for the Sweden Democrats. In my experience from having voted a couple of times, a lot of people only pick up the ballot for the party they intend to vote for, so I can absolutely see the possibility of a chilling effect for picking up the far right ballot in previous elections.
 
I am sorry, but your logic makes zero sense. The difference between polling results and actual voting patterns can be resolved on election day, not before it. In the last election, there was a massive disparity between the polling and the actual results. What is your basis for the notion that systematic bias issues have been ironed out? As far as I know, the serious polling institutes in Sweden do not make adjustments for the shame associated with voting for the Sweden Democrats that made so many people lie to pollsters going into the last election. The less serious polling institutes make such adjustments, but some of these polled the Sweden Democrats at 25-30% a couple of years ago already.

Also, the practical system for voting will probably be changed for the next general election, which could possible be beneficial for the Sweden Democrats. In the past, we have had a system where voters picked up voting ballots publicly, allowing other people to see if you picked up a ballot for the Sweden Democrats. In my experience from having voted a couple of times, a lot of people only pick up the ballot for the party they intend to vote for, so I can absolutely see the possibility of a chilling effect for picking up the far right ballot in previous elections.

We both agree that Before the election, polls underestimated SD. Their election result was around 30-50 % above what polls said. After the election, their poll numbers jumped to 12-13 %, exactly in line with the election. There can be two explanations for this.

1. Whatever issues the poll institutes had before the election were ironed out. Whether they changed their polling or algorithms, or whether SD supporters started replying more truthfully when the shame factor went away, the polls corrected to the correct level after the election.

Or

2. The polls were just as bad after the election. The immediate uptick in poll results for SD wasn't due to polls self-correcting, but due to a real overnight uptick in support for SD. Polls went overnight from 8-10 % to 13 %, while real support jumped overnight from 13 % to 17-20 %.

Such large overnight swings are not very common at all in Swedish politics, so I find explanation one much more likely

And I really doubt that the chilling effect for party ballot was a thing. I mean, we all know that SD supporters are spineless cowards, but goddamn.
 

Faustek

Member

My assumption was that the one I quoted meant the young men that came, lets be honest now. It's them everyone seems to be afraid of and it's these kids that are in most peril ergo why I'm zooming in on the municipalities. He didn't specify yes so my bad on that but I'm talking about the kids there.
And you are kinda wrong. Yes Migrationsverket is paying for all grown ups without children but it's the municipalities that does the work and finds where to have them, who to care for them. MigVer does have people checking on these but on more than one occasion the checking has been a call "allt ok?" and then done. This we have adults talking in interviews on how afraid they have been but no one helps them because Migrations Verket haven't been told.

You will not get the correct number of suicides because as I said they have no legal obligation to report suicide attempts.


Atm there is a facebook group that with 17k people and according to GP, possible paywall, the once majority of helping each other out with Swedish it's now it's about selfharm, ideas on how to kill yourself, the idea of collective suicide and just fear and this is just about people from Afghanistan.

Eliz Lindström, fritidskonsulent i Huddinge, har själv stöttat flera afghanska ungdomar som pratat om självmord på Facebook.

– För att nå dem måste man gå via sociala medier. Jag har lärt känna fler och fler där och gått med i framför allt en grupp, som har över 17 000 följare, nästan bara afghaner som bor i hela Sverige, säger Eliz Lindström.

Hon berättar att gruppen tidigare mest använts för att ge varandra tips och att träna på svenska. Men efter de senaste självmorden bland ensamkommande, har stämningen förändrats. Bilder på de som tagit livet av sig har cirkulerat på sidan. Flera unga har också postat bilder på uppskurna armar, med kommentarer som ”Vem vill ta självmord. Vi kan göra det tillsammans” och ”Nästa ska vara jag som ska ta mitt liv".


Lol, get real. The Sweden Democrats ain't getting 30% next election. Polls were very off before the last election, but after, they showed the same results as the election results. Whatever systematic bias issues the polls had before the 2014 election seem to have been ironed out

I no longer believe they will not be one of the largest parties, I can actually see them being the second largest and depending on how Löfven manages to present himself these coming times SD can pass them as well. The only hope I have is that the other Alliance parties stand by their word and refuse to work with them.

This week Kalla Fakta showed a Sweden where women and girls are growing up in suburban patriarchal parallel societies, sometimes completely under of honor oppression. Women can't go to cafe or go to bar or dress how they want.

Most damning thing was gender apartheid in school buses where girls are forced to sit in the back and girls had to enter the bus from the backdoor. It seems segregation process starts at the very young age.

The situation has become worse. In the summer of 2015 wrote feminist Zeliha Dagli about how fundamentalism shadow spread out over Husby.

She was ridiculed by fundamentalists and was ignored by many leftist feminists and she had to leave the suburb because of islamist forces in the area.

http://www.expressen.se/kvp/kroniko...fakta-sluta-visa-tolerans-for-kvinnofortryck/

Unfortunately there is a subset of people that call themselves muslims and they are detestable like this and then we have SFM doing their best to make sure we get divided. Presenting salafism as the only true way and calling everyone who opposes them Islamophobic, racist and dividers. Yes, we can divide them onto an island under a large rock somewhere.

Also about Zeliha and Amineh Kakabaveh. They are ignored. They have been screaming for years about this problem. If you remember GAPF, Glöm Aldig Pela och Fadime(Never forget Pela and Fadime) have also been working with this and largely ignored. When they say that over 500 young women are forced to undergo virginity tests, even more being kept locked up at home and even have doctors testifying to this(under protected secret identity) and are still ignored? I have to ask myself who the hell is running the show? Is it because they are women? Is it because they have been called racist? Afraid to be called racist?
Nah, not that they have been called racist, that happened long after they started screaming about the issues. So either they are afraid, don't believe them, they are women or they just don't care.

Nah, I believe we have to stop wonder if we're playing the racists their perfect hand and instead lift these problems to a national level and do as we did in the 90s with the christians. Stomp them down and enforce state law on everyone or literally take away every cent of their funding, close down their religious private schools(which are funded by taxes) if they do not bend as the christians did.
 

trembli0s

Member
Since 9/11, around 600 people have been killed in Western Europe by Islamist terrorism (it can be a bit tricky to decide what to count, but figures goes from high 600s to low 500s).
For comparison, in 2015 alone, over 26,000 people died in car accidents.

Now I don't mean to make light of these attacks or the suffering they inflicted upon people, but Islamic terrorism in not currently an existential threat to Europe, nor is it a serious personal threat to its citizens. Terror is the tool of the weak, it's the tool of the people who knows they cannot win by the pure strength, it is meant to entice fear and make your opponent act irrationally and/or against their best interests.

p.s.
As other people in the thread mentioned, Europe went through more serious terror waves, and it managed to come through it without losing its mind and soul. I hope it can do it again.

sknQ2kZ.png

I'm not sure this graph is as helpful to your argument as you think. A committed ideologue is going to look at it and point out that there is an increasing proportion of attacks committed under Jihadist influence. The easiest answer for the ideologue to make is to float a flat out ban, and a chart which shows higher incidences of fundamentalist inspired attacks only bolsters that conviction, regardless of the totality of the numbers.

The easiest example we can point to is Syria's recent gas attack. Thousands of people are being butchered in detention and yet it was only a horrific attack involving gas that really elicited a military response which was largely cheered among the West. All deaths are not equal and the type of media frenzy attached in particular to ISIS-style attacks makes them much more potent than a random car accident.
 
Never have I been so proud of being Swedish and rom Stockholm.
Everyone from our public servants to our civilian population and politicians have handled this with compassion and class.

The love during the first 24h drowned out all the hate.
Stockholm still standing tall.
 
p.s.
As other people in the thread mentioned, Europe went through more serious terror waves, and it managed to come through it without losing its mind and soul. I hope it can do it again.

sknQ2kZ.png

During the terrorism of the 1970's and 1980's the measures taken then were vehemently opposed as well with the same arguments used now. Bobby Sands, the RAF Berufsverbot, the Gibraltar shootings, Guardia Civil brutality fighting ETA, all these things would inevitably lead to a police state if left unchecked.

Also the source material for that graph is terrible, I checked 1980 and a lot is just plain wrong.
https://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/searc...TotalNumberOfFatalities&od=desc#results-table

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark_Place_fire angry customer sets nightclub on fire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Hotel_Fire,_Bundoran accident
March 10th Rome attack, 2 deaths not 10: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_by_ASALA

Out of the top 5 attacks for 1980, two are not terrorism and one is off by 80%. Repeat this for any year in the 1970's and 1980's and it's the same.
 

Skinpop

Member
We're gonna have these issues for a long, long time, and it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

basically this. it's not a problem of attitude and money as much as it is about physical resources and cultural friction. our capacity to integrate immigrants and refugees is far beyond saturation and has been so for over a decade.
 
basically this. it's not a problem of attitude and money as much as it is about physical resources and cultural friction. our capacity to integrate immigrants and refugees is far beyond saturation and has been so for over a decade.

It is a shame.
We have the richest municipalities refusing to help with housing refugees, while the areas with the most segregation must take them.
 

Ozorov

Member
Apparently one of the four has now been identified, 11-year old girl :(. She was going home from school and had just spoken with her mom on the phone moments before it happen, they were supposed to meet on the subway.
 

Liljagare

Member
Ok, first thing that upset me in the aftermath, the store that got driven into put out a add that they would reopen tomorrow, and have a sale on smoke damaged goods, yes, half price on merchandise from subway level to first floor.

.............. Dear lord, I cannot fathom the train of thought there.

I can actually see Åhlen's go out business now, what a hair brained thought and move!!

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a...kadade-varor-efter-attacken-pa-drottninggatan
 

strafer

member
Apparently one of the four has now been identified, 11-year old girl :(. She was going home from school and had just spoken with her mom on the phone moments before it happen, they were supposed to meet on the subway.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I read about her earlier that the mother was looking for her.

Fuck. :(
 

Forsete

Member
Apparently one of the four has now been identified, 11-year old girl :(. She was going home from school and had just spoken with her mom on the phone moments before it happen, they were supposed to meet on the subway.

I was following this on Flashback earlier this morning. Her mother had put out a missing persons post on Facebook.

Hopefully this guy gets his nuts crushed in prison.
 

Condom

Member
How are the problems being addressed, exactly? What are we doing to stop Islamism?

The problem you are pointing (in your last posts) aren't about islamism per se but socio-economic problems.

Maybe I looked at it too much from the Dutch perspective because we've had plenty of movement on the policy side although not more than we like to talk about the subject.

Learning kids how to network for example, having an education is one thing but another is knowing how to get jobs/opportunities. What some not realize is that their future employer will 9/10 times be a native European so you have to know how to connect. Hiding behind insecurities and clustering with your own group won't help you pay your rent or live a fulfilling life.

I've talked to kids who are promising and educated but have troubles with dealing with things like going to networking events where everybody drinks alcohol and they can't. They're surprisingly insecure on how to deal with simple things like that.

I mean at least young people are getting degrees now in the Netherlands, that's a good step forward. Is Sweden really that much behind?
 

Skinpop

Member
It is a shame.
We have the richest municipalities refusing to help with housing refugees, while the areas with the most segregation must take them.

not sure how true that is though. I recently moved to rural skåne which is largely pro SD and was amazed to see how many immigrants/refugees have been placed here. we are talking about small villages in the middle of nowhere with bad public communication and nothing to do. Many of them hang around outside the supermarkets or wander along the country roads. It's completely different compared to just 2-3 years ago. Problem is they can't stay here, not because there isn't any space or housing available but there are no schools, no work and the native swedish populace living here is old, conservative and anti immigration. We are not going to be able to integrate these people, the physical resources simply doesn't exist.
 
not sure how true that is though. I recently moved to rural skåne which is largely pro SD and was amazed to see how many immigrants/refugees have been placed here. we are talking about small villages in the middle of nowhere with bad public communication and nothing to do. Many of them hang around outside the supermarkets or wander along the country roads. It's completely different compared to just 2-3 years ago. Problem is they can't stay here, not because there isn't any space or housing available but there are no schools, no work and the native swedish populace living here is old, conservative and anti immigration. We are not going to be able to integrate these people, the physical resources simply doesn't exist.

It's very true.

http://flyktingmottagande.aftonbladet.se/Täby

Look at municipalities like Solna and Täby.
Both run be rightwing councils.
 

Kurtofan

Member
edit: you know what nevermind, this is too depressing, i don't want this post to be quoted over and over as a reminder
 
not sure how true that is though. I recently moved to rural skåne which is largely pro SD and was amazed to see how many immigrants/refugees have been placed here. we are talking about small villages in the middle of nowhere with bad public communication and nothing to do. Many of them hang around outside the supermarkets or wander along the country roads. It's completely different compared to just 2-3 years ago. Problem is they can't stay here, not because there isn't any space or housing available but there are no schools, no work and the native swedish populace living here is old, conservative and anti immigration. We are not going to be able to integrate these people, the physical resources simply doesn't exist.

This is all true but the problem isn't immigration itself, but rather how automation and other political developments are moving all the money away from small towns and into the big cities. Non-immigrants in these areas are equally screwed, which is why they listen to nazi idiots like SD in the first place. Of course, much like what people are finding out about Trump, SD would instantly throw these very people under the bus if they had majority power.

Excuse the somewhat off-topic tangent. Mostly I am shocked about how little nazi propaganda I'm seeing around this compared to what I was expecting. Maybe even those dicklords have some sense of tact.
 

Skinpop

Member
This is all true but the problem isn't immigration itself, but rather how automation and other political developments are moving all the money away from small towns and into the big cities.
there is a limit to physical resources for integration. Education, housing, volunteers, social workers, teachers, interpreters and so on - and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Places like rosengard, tensta and so on are a symptom of this neglect of limited resources, and so is the booming racism to some degree. Sure we can easily fit more people in sweden, but I don't think we should have any higher immigration than our capacity to integrate. And it's clear as day that this capacity has been far exceeded going back more than a decade.

as for urbanization, I think sweden is too big with too small a population to have a healthy country side. Automation might actually make moving back to rural areas attractive again. With 1 day home deliveries, more work from home, automated farming and fiber internet the proposition isn't all that bad - but we are still years away from that to happen.

Non-immigrants in these areas are equally screwed, which is why they listen to nazi idiots like SD in the first place.
this is true, there are almost no young native swedes(20-40) here, everyone leaves at first opportunity. I am only staying here for six months.
 

KZObsessed

Member
Apparently one of the four has now been identified, 11-year old girl :(. She was going home from school and had just spoken with her mom on the phone moments before it happen, they were supposed to meet on the subway.

Some assholes were posting pictures of her body on twitter to try and shame the Swedish authorities. It's horrifying, I won't even describe it, be careful of looking at the replies to tweets on the subject :(
 
there is a limit to physical resources when it comes to integration. Education, housing, volunteers, social workers, teachers, interpreters and so on - and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Places like rosengard, tensta and so on are a symptom of this neglect of limited resources, and so is the booming racism to some degree. Sure we can easily fit more people in sweden, but I don't think we should have any higher immigration than our capacity to integrate. And it's clear as day that this capacity has been far exceeded going back more than a decade.

as for urbanization, I think sweden is too big with too small a population to have a healthy country side. Automation might actually make moving back to rural areas attractive again. With 1 day home deliveries, more work from home, automated farming and fiber internet the proposition isn't all that bad - but we are still years away from that to happen.


this is true, there are almost no young native swedes(20-40) here, everyone leaves at first opportunity. I am only staying here for six months.


How is anyone suprised that there aren't enough education, housing, volunteers, social workers, teachers, interpreters if the people fleeing here aren't dispersed evenly among the populace?
The cuttbacks in said areas are cause of the rightwing politicians selling our state owned resources.
And they aren't just affecting POC but also Swedens in the rural areas.

The one part that people from rural Sweden won't need to deal with is the systemic racism that makes getting housing and jobs. Those are the two key factors in combating segregation.
 
Excuse the somewhat off-topic tangent. Mostly I am shocked about how little nazi propaganda I'm seeing around this compared to what I was expecting. Maybe even those dicklords have some sense of tact.

Maybe because there is very little for them to grab on to. Overall, it was handled very well by authorities and people showed great compassion. Lots of little acts of heroism. Some people want to claim that society is one step away from crumbling. Friday showed that is definitely not the case.
 

Skinpop

Member
How is anyone suprised that there aren't enough education, housing, volunteers, social workers, teachers, interpreters if the people fleeing here aren't dispersed evenly among the populace?

Resources aren't proportional to populace, I'm not saying there aren't places that don't take their responsibility but it's not as simple as the ratio of immigrants/natives. You need to have people on your side to do this and that won't happen when resources are spread to thin and cultural friction is too high.
I guess it all depends on your definition of "integration". For some it seems to be little more than a place to live and financial support for the foreseeable future hoping that people will do their best to integrate on their own accord. To me integration is ensuring that these people learn the language, adopt core swedish(like gender equality, free speech) values, and are rewarded by being able to get a job corresponding to qualifications once the basics are in place.
 
Resources aren't proportional to populace, I'm not saying there aren't places that don't take their responsibility but it's not as simple as the ratio of immigrants/natives. You need to have people on your side to do this and that won't happen when resources are spread to thin and cultural friction is too high.
I guess it all depends on your definition of "integration". For some it seems to be little more than a place to live and financial support for the foreseeable future hoping that people will do their best to integrate on their own accord. To me integration is ensuring that these people learn the language, adopt core swedish(like gender equality, free speech) values, and are rewarded by being able to get a job corresponding to qualifications once the basics are in place.

If you had bothered quoting the whole post you would have seen that I mentioned resources that have been stripped from low income areas.
It's not that they aren't around, just not at the places who need it.
Not sure what you are talking about regarding cultural friction but I'll leave that for you to explain.
I'm not sure you are understanding me.
Work (not just financial aid) and housing is key to combat segregation.
Since so few unsegregated municipalities won't take their share this leads to further segregation.
In said segregated areas people won't be able to escape as easily since POC have a harder time (institutional racism) getting good jobs and houses.
 
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