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After Destiny, do you trust the games media more?
- Thread starter alexandros
- Start date
Stated for transparency: I'm really enjoying Destiny thus far. I've stated this elsewhere, but it's giving me exactly what I want: the gamefeel is excellent and it's amazingly fun with friends.
With that being said no, Destiny's scores/critiques in no way make me trust the gaming media more. In fact, as someone who hasn't really paid attention to professional reviews in a few years and who hasn't consulted them to assist with a buying decision in even longer, I feel that this scenario has given me insight into how these writeups are actually conducted -- and I trust these opinions even less because of it. Games media, like some parts of the world, didn't gain access to Destiny until Monday. However, we seen reviews go up as early as, what was it, Wednesday? Again, I'm largely ignorant to this process, but I was under the impression that professional reviewers received at least a few weeks with the final build of a game in which to compose a review. Personally, if I was looking to a $60 game review I would want it written by someone who approaches games like myself: as a longterm source of leisure. In all but the most content starved titles, (ex. The Bouncer) this is an impossibility. Concerning Destiny specifically, I would be interested in reading a review from someone who experienced every mission, every event, every mode, every character subclass, and -- extremely importantly -- every difficulty level because challenge and balancing absolutely DOES make or break a game for me. Concerning every mode, the fact that no reviewer has yet had access to what has been touted as a major component, the raid, disqualifies any numerical score they could give the game in my eyes.
Rushing through enough content to fill a page with words offers me nothing that I would personally lend any credence to. If others truly find game reviews to be helpful, then great! For me, I'm buying a full game with the intention of having a full experience. If a reviewer can't speak to all that there is on offer, then I simply don't care what they have to offer. If expecting a review of an entire game just isn't realistically cost effective, (see: lost clicks) well then that's...
Purchasing games solely based on feature sets that I personally find appealing has served me well thus far and I'm sure it will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
With that being said no, Destiny's scores/critiques in no way make me trust the gaming media more. In fact, as someone who hasn't really paid attention to professional reviews in a few years and who hasn't consulted them to assist with a buying decision in even longer, I feel that this scenario has given me insight into how these writeups are actually conducted -- and I trust these opinions even less because of it. Games media, like some parts of the world, didn't gain access to Destiny until Monday. However, we seen reviews go up as early as, what was it, Wednesday? Again, I'm largely ignorant to this process, but I was under the impression that professional reviewers received at least a few weeks with the final build of a game in which to compose a review. Personally, if I was looking to a $60 game review I would want it written by someone who approaches games like myself: as a longterm source of leisure. In all but the most content starved titles, (ex. The Bouncer) this is an impossibility. Concerning Destiny specifically, I would be interested in reading a review from someone who experienced every mission, every event, every mode, every character subclass, and -- extremely importantly -- every difficulty level because challenge and balancing absolutely DOES make or break a game for me. Concerning every mode, the fact that no reviewer has yet had access to what has been touted as a major component, the raid, disqualifies any numerical score they could give the game in my eyes.
Rushing through enough content to fill a page with words offers me nothing that I would personally lend any credence to. If others truly find game reviews to be helpful, then great! For me, I'm buying a full game with the intention of having a full experience. If a reviewer can't speak to all that there is on offer, then I simply don't care what they have to offer. If expecting a review of an entire game just isn't realistically cost effective, (see: lost clicks) well then that's...
Purchasing games solely based on feature sets that I personally find appealing has served me well thus far and I'm sure it will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
Its not like they were magically hiding the *real* truth behind the game from you. They had the same info and played the same alpha and beta you guys did. And guess what? YOU GUYS(speaking of people here on GAF) were hyping the game plenty on your own. Would you say you trust GAF's impressions less now as well? Cuz that would only be fair.
When it comes down to it, I think the only party that deserves any blame is Bungie. They are the ones who were given a bigger budget than pretty much any game ever except maybe GTA(and maybe even more than that) and produced a disappointing final product. THEY let you down. Not the media. Not the users on GAF. I think everyone was being perfectly reasonable in being hyped about Destiny.
Killing_Joke
Member
I don't trust anyone's opinion besides my own. I haven't read a full review in years. I go into a review thread, see the general reception. Play a demo or watch some youtube videos. I respect their work. But the whole innocent act isn't helping. Yeah the internet sucks but it doesn't wipe away all the flaws with the media.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Hollyshit..what am I reading now.
SneakyStephan
Banned
I'm a bit less inclined to think that the cause for their constant shilling is them being too beholden to the industry.
The 'we are just gamers too' sounds a little bit more sincere and believable now.
The fact that
A: they still eagerly and greedily took part of and helped fuel the PR hype train pre release as hard as they could
and
B: it took some extraordinary circumstances for this to happen
(the reviews were delayed which gave them time to step back from the pre launch and launch day hysteria and look at things from a more objective distance + the public reactions to the game thusfar probably made them a lot more confident in expressing their criticism)
Does show that they are still not good at doing their job most of the time...
Just not for the reasons I assumed.
I always gave them "credit" in that I assumed they were not that easily influenced by the hype but rather were cynically selling the hype (because that is what gets them clicks) before release and then maintaining it at release (because they answer to publishers not us)
Now I'm more inclined to think they just get caught up in the hype way too hard themselves , swallow whatever PR will tell them voluntarily and act like a bunch of consumerists rather than critics, unless the stars align to provide the right circumstances like it did here.
When I remember that games like dragon age 2 still score 10/10s all over and get praised to high heaven under normal circumstances it will take a lot more of this to ever trust them.
While I dislike them a bit less after this for showing they don't always farm us out to publishers like we are cattle, it will take a lot more of this
'detached from the hype machine objectivity' for me to see any value in their existence.
Btw I definitely have sympathy for them when they get called "faggots" or get death threats in comments/on twitter for not scoring some big game highly or criticising it. The internet is lawless so the filth that does shit like that runs loose freely on youtube comments , twitter, facebook and everywhere else.
For any games writer or public personality who gets depressed by youtube comments on their review videos: The youtube comments are so bad that most regular people who watch videos download an addon to hide them or try to never look at them, the people who do comment there are not going to be normal people
The 'we are just gamers too' sounds a little bit more sincere and believable now.
The fact that
A: they still eagerly and greedily took part of and helped fuel the PR hype train pre release as hard as they could
and
B: it took some extraordinary circumstances for this to happen
(the reviews were delayed which gave them time to step back from the pre launch and launch day hysteria and look at things from a more objective distance + the public reactions to the game thusfar probably made them a lot more confident in expressing their criticism)
Does show that they are still not good at doing their job most of the time...
Just not for the reasons I assumed.
I always gave them "credit" in that I assumed they were not that easily influenced by the hype but rather were cynically selling the hype (because that is what gets them clicks) before release and then maintaining it at release (because they answer to publishers not us)
Now I'm more inclined to think they just get caught up in the hype way too hard themselves , swallow whatever PR will tell them voluntarily and act like a bunch of consumerists rather than critics, unless the stars align to provide the right circumstances like it did here.
When I remember that games like dragon age 2 still score 10/10s all over and get praised to high heaven under normal circumstances it will take a lot more of this to ever trust them.
While I dislike them a bit less after this for showing they don't always farm us out to publishers like we are cattle, it will take a lot more of this
'detached from the hype machine objectivity' for me to see any value in their existence.
Btw I definitely have sympathy for them when they get called "faggots" or get death threats in comments/on twitter for not scoring some big game highly or criticising it. The internet is lawless so the filth that does shit like that runs loose freely on youtube comments , twitter, facebook and everywhere else.
For any games writer or public personality who gets depressed by youtube comments on their review videos: The youtube comments are so bad that most regular people who watch videos download an addon to hide them or try to never look at them, the people who do comment there are not going to be normal people
rokkerkory
Member
My trust for media hasn't changed. I take their inputs with a grain of salt.
My trust for Bungie has gone down a tad however. (This is coming from huge Halo fanboy).
My trust for Bungie has gone down a tad however. (This is coming from huge Halo fanboy).
For me, it has always boiled down to whether I want to play a game or not. I can usually tell based on preview information and hands-on articles/videos. Seeing a 10 on a website or in a magazine has never really been a large driver of my video game purchasing habits. I've been burned by developers in the past, usually because I didn't have patience to research a game or simply bought the newest game in a series based on past entries. This is my fault.
Any informed consumer should research their purchases. Depending on enthusiast media for unbiased information on the games would be like asking a pharmaceutical industry representative whether I should buy a particular medicine. What do you think their answer will be?
The enthusiast media performs a valuable role in the information they present. People need to think about these things rationally. I don't blame a car magazine I read for telling me to go out and buy a brand new vehicle if I simply believed their "greatest ever" spiel. I'm making the purchase, it's my responsibility.
There can always be more accountability and factual information out there but you hold the wallet/purse.
Any informed consumer should research their purchases. Depending on enthusiast media for unbiased information on the games would be like asking a pharmaceutical industry representative whether I should buy a particular medicine. What do you think their answer will be?
The enthusiast media performs a valuable role in the information they present. People need to think about these things rationally. I don't blame a car magazine I read for telling me to go out and buy a brand new vehicle if I simply believed their "greatest ever" spiel. I'm making the purchase, it's my responsibility.
There can always be more accountability and factual information out there but you hold the wallet/purse.
SDCowboy
Member
You mean two of the best games ever?
Seriously dude? What is your logic here? (There was once a time when posters like this were banned from GAF.)
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I continue to trust the ones I did before
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
My overall disinterest in game reviews has stayed the same.
Broadbandito
Member
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
What does k mean mr bandito.
The depressing reality of entitlement and misplaced outrage.
SneakyStephan
Banned
No but it does hinge on how useful they are to the reader to allow them to make an informed purchase...
As in if there is anything we should know about the game before buying that might make us not want to buy it or does not line up with what we expected we should hear about it in the review.
And that doesn't happen often enough for big AAA games.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
thelastword
Banned
It had more to do with just games media though, it was the pedigree of both the developer and the publisher which generated all the hype. With Bungie's prior juggernaut called Halo and Activision's deep pockets and marketing, these two coming together would always be hyped beyond belief. In many ways destiny will still be a huge success, but it's first outing is kinda reminiscent of the first Assassin's Creed.
OccamsLightsaber
Regularly boosts GAF member count to cry about 'right wing gaf' - Voter #3923781
I still take issue with the "hype" around Destiny. It was non existent prior to the Alpha.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Probably just the natural consequence of anything being hyped up to hell and back. Seems like almost every game that has major, soul crushing hype leads to eventual disappointment, reviewers and gamers alike should probably temper their excitement just a tad. Though I will say I have no issue at all with people being excited for an upcoming game.
Yeah, way less people care about reviews after the product is out/"old".
Neuromancer
Member
Pfff fuck no, I haven't trusted a critical consensus since GTAIV happened.
Rolodzeo
Member
Nope, I mean, you can tell by the score which review was bought and which wasn't. But I do think that the hype train must be stopped at some point. Titanfall fell short of expectations, Destiny is falling short, and the next big thing is going to fall on its face mercyless. I mean, yeah, all these games sell like crazy, but they're no more than an excellent marketing product, not an excellent videogame. That seriously needs to stop, and I think GAF has some responsability on the matter, we need to tune down the hype machine, we have to stop consuming and creating hype for the next big thing.
So its ok for 'people' to be excited for an upcoming game, but not the media?
Seriously, the hype for Destiny was not manufactured by the media. The hype was coming from reasonable expectations based on Bungie's history, their $100 million+ budget and what they've said about the game. Like I said - if there's anybody you want to trust less in all this, its Bungie, for letting you down. Blaming the media is ridiculous.
What about Dark Souls?
I think most people just tend to focus on the negative examples and forget all the other times that the media and reviews seem entirely reasonable in relation to public opinion. And in fact, reviews of Destiny seem to be mirroring what people on here playing it are saying pretty damn closely. But somehow its *still* a problem with the media.
I really don't get it. I think its simply become a popular notion to bash the media nowadays.
Sakura
Member
I care more about what the reviews say than the score.
For example when a site like Kotaku would review a Wii U game then add some bullshit about how it doesn't save the Wii U, those sorts of things make me not take them seriously.
In terms of not trusting reviews out of belief they are influenced by publishers etc, the only one I don't trust on that is Famitsu.
For example when a site like Kotaku would review a Wii U game then add some bullshit about how it doesn't save the Wii U, those sorts of things make me not take them seriously.
In terms of not trusting reviews out of belief they are influenced by publishers etc, the only one I don't trust on that is Famitsu.
Why people keep saying this when it's not true?
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/dragon-age-ii
My trust in game reviews went out the window after GTA IV (a perfectly okay game, but nothing close to the Game Of All Time that most reviews made it out to be). Haven't trusted one since. If I'm on the fence about a game, I come to GAF and see what folks are saying about it. That usually provides a good diversity of opinion and is way better than any review.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Didn't make it any less hyped though, regardless of when the hype happened.
matty2Dfraud
Banned
Games media? Don't know about that, but I surely trust NeoGaf less. Even after the horrible Alpha and mediocre Beta this place spewed Destiny hype. Every time I tried to fairly critique the game here people just brushed it off. I guess it takes blowing $60+ to realize something is bland and mediocre?
And just one thing... I can't believe they didn't tweak the fov for release. Destiny feels like you're playing a first person shooter with binoculars on at all times... ugh.
And just one thing... I can't believe they didn't tweak the fov for release. Destiny feels like you're playing a first person shooter with binoculars on at all times... ugh.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I trust them now more than ever.
It seems they're finally learning not to rate highly because the games budget tells them to. Destiny in my opinion is avery very very average game. At best. The reviews are mostly reflecting that that whch is fantastic to see.
I don't want to see an Uncharted 3 situation ever again.
It seems they're finally learning not to rate highly because the games budget tells them to. Destiny in my opinion is avery very very average game. At best. The reviews are mostly reflecting that that whch is fantastic to see.
I don't want to see an Uncharted 3 situation ever again.
RespectThySole
Member
I agree with this to a certain extent. It depends on which site and individuals on said site your talking about because many people hyped it in the same way they did Titanfall, but others were timid on it from the start.
I think this is because many sites realized that Destiny would be disappointing and not worthy of any hype even though it was a new IP from Bungie. Even huge Bungie fans like Ryan(yes I know he can be terrible) and most of the Xbox team from IGN had no hype for the game.
It's pretty funny that Destiny has "180+Awards and Nominations" on the game cover because I'm pretty sure the vast majority of those were simply nominations for being a big FPS at gaming events. I can't remember any big site giving Destiny any real award, but I'm sure there were a few that got caught in the hype.
However, I do agree that Titanfall had a lot of hype from gamers and the media, while Destiny had more hype from gamers albeit still a big portion of hype from the media.
On topic:
Do I have more trust in the media?
Short answer: yes Long answer: no
Reviewers this year have been more honest towards games with large hype instead of succumbing to pressure from publishers. We saw this happen with Titanfall, Watch Dogs and most notably Destiny.
This was refreshing because in the past there has been so many games with high critic scores that were at a general discord to what the average user thought of a game. I didn't expect Destiny to get panned to this extent just because of the Activision/Sony marketing machine. (yes I know the overall score isn't that BAD, but it is when you consider the hype of the game)
I think that my shock shows this is more of an anomaly than something that will continue to happen again and again so in the end, I need to see more. If game reviewers show us that they are worthy of trust/respect in the coming months with some of the big titles than great, if not I'll continue to judge games based on my own experiences which holds more weight than theirs' does for my enjoyment anyway.
Are there some that I currently consider slightly more objective than others?
Sure, Gamespot, Giant Bomb and Polygon(sometimes) tend to not care what the general media thinks for many titles so I do give their reviews a little more weight. However, even they are not trustworthy when it comes to certain games.
Long story short: I NEED to see more.
Just as this guy put it:
And you'll find that the reviews for Destiny echo what people here are saying about it.
Which makes the entire premise of this thread nonsense. This is actually an example of a game where the reviews match up quite well with gamer's opinions.
Freeman
Banned
I never played the game, never was hyped for it nor had any interest in playing it. I also never fully understood what this game was about.
To be honest, I expected it to be able to score the regular 8s and 9s regardless of how good it was as long as it wasn't a total disaster. In that way I'm somewhat positively surprised that it didn't score well (but than again, I didn't play it and maybe its actually good and reviewers are wrong).
Game scores have become less forgiving now, specially after GTAV and TLoU raised the bar last year.
To be honest, I expected it to be able to score the regular 8s and 9s regardless of how good it was as long as it wasn't a total disaster. In that way I'm somewhat positively surprised that it didn't score well (but than again, I didn't play it and maybe its actually good and reviewers are wrong).
Game scores have become less forgiving now, specially after GTAV and TLoU raised the bar last year.
milkham
Member
I can't say I've ever felt this kind of adversarial "trust or don't trust" relationship with gaming media. I either like reading what they write or watching their videos or I don't. If i don't agree with a review I don't turn the dial to "these motherfuckers are lying to me!" I also don't think "finally! they stopped lying!" when i agree with a review.
No drama.
No drama.
7DollarHagane
Banned
It's funny because i came into the game super negative, and how it's very addicting to me and I'm having a great time with it.
I do realize it's got a lot of problems but i keep getting drawn into it. I think i'll be playing a long time.
Funny how polygon managed to find enough to give it a 6 though. Funny how that happens for a big PS4 centric and marketed game.. funny.
I do realize it's got a lot of problems but i keep getting drawn into it. I think i'll be playing a long time.
Funny how polygon managed to find enough to give it a 6 though. Funny how that happens for a big PS4 centric and marketed game.. funny.