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[balladofwindfishes]

The sprites really are pretty ugly in SMW. Inconsistent outlines all over the place (some things have thick black outlines, some stuff doesn't. A few sprites don't even have outlines) and some of the sprites just look really weird.

Paper Mario 64 took SMW's style and made it work perfectly. But the original is kind of rough. This becomes totally obvious in Mario Maker, with newer elements because even Nintendo seems to not even really know what the heck sprite style SMW is.

 

[andymcc]

I'd bet if NSMBU had a unique art style and soundtrack it would be considered the best.

Using the New aesthetic really killed it for many. The level design is sublime.

If the whole game looked like the Starry Night-esque Boo stages— it would be as fondly thought of as any of the classic ones.

Which is weird as SMW is the very definition of a utilitarian looking game with regards to functionality over all else.

That being said, I agree with the premise of the thread but I contest that YI, while having nice art style, has fundamental issues with samey stage theming and overly long, plodding levels.

 

[chaosblade]

Mario World's secret exit system and the overall construction of the world map are the best things about it, and the things that I'm frustrated they've never really properly expanded on. The NSMB games have the exits, but not the map to go with it

This was the one place NSMBU fell short. With the way the map is constructed it feels like they wanted to do that, but didn't go as far as SMW did, let alone surpass it.

Man, haven't seen this gem pop up in a long time. The cape is potentially overpowered, sure, but just because you can use something to break the game, doesn't mean you should.

The complaints about the cape remind me of the complaints about SMB3's warp whistles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGHiy9B_vcU

Whistles are limited and hidden. They are rewards for experienced players, not a standard part of the game. The cape is a normal powerup in World that the game hands out frequently. The two aren't really comparable, and not using a cape in World is something you have to actively try to do, unlike whistles in 3 which you have to actively try to get.

 

[twentytwo22]

It’s second best after 64. I started from the beginning, so I don’t have that “first kiss” syndrome, although I do have amazing nostalgic memories with each game. I never liked Yoshi’s Island as much as it never felt like a successor to SM3 and SMW, and NSMBU is really just not very good.

 

[Transistor]

I can see the comparisons saying 3 and YI are better, but NSMBU? Dafuq?

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

I definitely agree that Mario 3 and YI are better than it. The NSMB games just can't hold my attention for very long, however. They just don't feel right. They feel slow and chunky.

 

[Blizzard]

I replied in the other thread, but since you made a thread about it I'll reply in case you missed my response.

I think it's worth pointing out that even a game that's "piss-easy" like this one can takes me 15-25 tries, or 40+ minutes straight of effort, on certain levels. Even if I'm trying to cheese with a cape or blue yoshi. Even a game that's so easy for players like you becomes frustrating to the point of not being fun late in the game, for me.

If the game was balanced for where it's hard enough for you, I think it would marginalize a lot of us completely out.

I think the level of difficulty is plenty high enough for some players.

I do agree that some enemies are poor.

 

[Kurt]

i don't agree.

I grow up with sbm1 , was overhyped on smb2 & smb3.
Yet smbw taked that extra step to be the best mario 2d game out there.

I've nsmbu, it's a good game, but thats it.

 

[Oblivion]

People say it's the best mostly because it's the first Super Mario title they experienced, a first-kiss syndrome in a sense.

Haha, what? You can say this about tons of games, but not SMW.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I can see the comparisons saying 3 and YI are better, but NSMBU? Dafuq?

In an alternate time where the entire rest of the NSMB doesn't exist and NSMB U is the first in the series, it's a really nice looking game, with an up beat soundtrack, and awesome level design. Opinions on it are brought down by the rest of the series existing and NSMB U just being a big refinement of what past games had already done without much style changes.

 

[bionic77]

Why is it that most hot takes involve basically stating that something that is universally acclaimed is actually overrated or terrible?

We need some new hot takes people.

 

[SalvaPot]

Haha, what? You can say this about tons of games, but not SMW.

You do realize a lot of people who grew up in the 90's a SNES that included SMW was their first game? Myself included.

Anyway, I love SMW but I agree, NSMBU its perfection, the challenges is the best thing about it, so crispy level design.

 

[Toxi]

*walks in, drops mic*

Super Mario World's artstyle is the NSMB artstyle of the 16 bit era. Bland pastel colors, ugly highlights, wonky looking sprites.

I remember being baffled by the thread where a few people were seriously saying Super Mario World looks better than Sonic the Hedgehog.

 

[Y2Kev]

I don't like Yoshi's Island either, but how have you never played that game up until now??



Wow, Jeff totally redeemed.



Man, haven't seen this gem pop up in a long time. The cape is potentially overpowered, sure, but just because you can use something to break the game, doesn't mean you should.

The complaints about the cape remind me of the complaints about SMB3's warp whistles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGHiy9B_vcU

Well, Yoshi's Island came out during the genre transition and there's actually a fairly big gap of games I never played as a kid and I can't explain it. I never played Chrono Trigger or FF6 then either.

 

[Oblivion]

You do realize a lot of people who grew up in the 90's a SNES that included SMW was their first game? Myself included.

I mean, I guess. But this isn't really a widespread excuse I've ever really seen from SMW fans.

 

[Lord British]

Yeah, it's the weakest 2D Mario. Which of course means it's the worst 10/10 in a series composed entirely of 10/10s.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Yeah, it's the weakest 2D Mario. Which of course means it's the worst 10/10 in a series composed entirely of 10/10s.

Pretty much.

 

[Effigenius]

SMW is my favorite of the side scrolling games. 3 was incredible for its time, but I just got tired of it. That never happened to me with world, and I have played it a ton. And I'm not some young gamer. I got the nes and Mario 1 before Mario 2 existed. I played them all new.

 

[Oblivion]

Well, Yoshi's Island came out during the genre transition and there's actually a fairly big gap of games I never played as a kid and I can't explain it. I never played Chrono Trigger or FF6 then either.

WTF? Aren't you a huge RPG fan?

Spoiler

I haven't played those games either.

"NSMBU is better than World" is the new "Revenge of the Sith is better than Return of the Jedi".

This is the worst analogy I've ever seen.

 

[Toxi]

Yeah, it's the weakest 2D Mario. Which of course means it's the worst 10/10 in a series composed entirely of 10/10s.

I wouldn't give NSMB DS and NSMB 2 anything higher than a 6 out of 10.

And that's being generous.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

This was the one place NSMBU fell short. With the way the map is constructed it feels like they wanted to do that, but didn't go as far as SMW did, let alone surpass it.



Whistles are limited and hidden. They are rewards for experienced players, not a standard part of the game. The cape is a normal powerup in World that the game hands out frequently. The two aren't really comparable, and not using a cape in World is something you have to actively try to do, unlike whistles in 3 which you have to actively try to get.

Yea. The whistle is a stand-in for a save battery.

 

[StewboaT_]

Damn, after recently replaying world I couldn't disagree more. Levels are awesome with a bunch of secret exits that encourage exploration, controls are extremely tight, music is top notch and Yoshi is sick. Still the best 2d Mario for me with 3 coming in a close second.

 

[xochipiltontli]

I don't think NSMBU and 3D World are even comparable in quality. 3D World and 3D Land are amazing and took Mario games in a direction they haven't been before. NSMBU feels like a high quality expansion pack to a game where I already didn't care for the music and character design.

I was talking mostly about gameplay. 3D World has better music and character design than NSMBU (which is why I also love it significantly more) and I would say it being a streamlined take on obstacle course Mario in 3D makes it more memorable, but as you said yourself the gameplay of NSMBU is still high quality. I said that if they were to have taken NSMBU and given it a unique art style with better music and presentation overall, it would be remembered very fondly.

Both games have very tight level design and smooth feeling game feel that was mostly ignored for two different reasons-- NSMBU for its bland presentation overall, and 3D World for being seen as an unsatisfactory successor to past 3D Marios.

Also I personally didn't like 3D Land that much, I think it felt nearly as bland as the earlier NSMB games. It played well, but after playing 3D World, Land feels very much like a prototype for it.

 

[Y2Kev]

WTF? Aren't you a huge RPG fan?

Spoiler

I haven't played those games either.

This is the worst analogy I've ever seen.

Then. THEN. I've since played them (I was also like 8 at the time).

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

How come people keep complaining about hot takes saying SMW sucks when no one is saying that it sucks, just that it's a step back from its predecessor (in some ways, empirically - number of levels, power ups)

 

[SalvaPot]

I mean, I guess. But this isn't really a widespread excuse I've ever really seen from SMW fans.

Well, because most think SMW is the best Mario game. But if you pay attention you'll see a few of them mention it was their first.

 

[Beerman462]

Yoshi's Island is a shit game with a shit gimmick. Baby Mario can go fuck himself.

 

[entremet]

Why is it that most hot takes involve basically stating that something that is universally acclaimed is actually overrated or terrible?

We need some new hot takes people.

It is a hot take, though?

The OP gave very detailed reasons. Moreover, he's not being hyperbolic. He's just saying that he thinks some really good games are better than one other really good game.

 

[Oblivion]

I remember being baffled by the thread where a few people were seriously saying Super Mario World looks better than Sonic the Hedgehog.

SMW is kind of a weird one, graphically. It does a lot of things that I've ripped NES games for (simple, flat colors and backgrounds, lack of detail and shadows, etc.) but...there's something about it that I still find very appealing.Would have been really nice to see what Nintendo could have done if they truly utilized the SNES' power for that game.

edit: btw, this is what the first level in Sonic 1 looks like:

And this is what the first level in Sonic 2 looks like:

How on earth do you make a sequel look worse than the original?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yoshi's Island is a shit game with a shit gimmick. Baby Mario can go fuck himself.

Good to know I'm not alone in the world thinking this. I always considered Baby Mario to be a deal breaker for YI. It's not a fun mechanic.

 

[Nocturnowl]

World definitely makes up for some simple visuals with some smart variations of colour palettes and those rather stylish mountain backdrops.

 

[noquarter]

Agree with the OP on this, which really surprised me on my last play through.

F9r then last 20-25 years I've put SMW near the top of my list for Mario games, usually SMB3>SMW=SM64. The last play through just kind of wore me out on the game. While the game does take a decent unified aesthetic, it makes the games individual world's not really standout. There is no moment in World like getting to 4-1 and seeing a huge goomba. Would say the Ghost Houses are the best thing the game has contributed to Mario Bros.

Yeah, what was up with that dark, Hell-like world? Creeped me out as a kid.

SMW has the better final boss tho.

Really don't think World's Bowser is better than SMB3 Bowser. Baiting Bowser to his doom was probably one of my favorite things to do on the NES. Getting the timing down so you don't get hit in the last jump was exciting and was a fitting way to end the game.

Throwing an enemy at Bowser and dodging fireballs really seems like a very Super Mario World thing to do. There wasn't many places in the game that really taught you how to get good at throwing things at other things, so why not have a skill that could be new to the player be the way to beat the game. Just one more of SMW that seems cobbled together.

Game has enough abilities that they really could have created a great platformer, the world map with the secret exits allows for there to be easy and hard paths. The game plays well and looks good, just doesn't really do anything great with what it has.

 

[Spiritual_Chaos]

Why is it that most hot takes involve basically stating that something that is universally acclaimed is actually overrated or terrible?

We need some new hot takes people.

Do these drive-by "hot take"-attacks do anything else but disparage the thread starter?

 

[PSFan]

You do realize a lot of people who grew up in the 90's a SNES that included SMW was their first game? Myself included.

Anyway, I love SMW but I agree, NSMBU its perfection, the challenges is the best thing about it, so crispy level design.

NSMBU wasn't that challenging tbh. None of the NSMB games were. The only challenge was that last world after beating the last Bowser. But that was supposed to be super challenging.

The rest of the game was pretty easy to get through. Collecting the big coins on each level and all. The old 2D games were much more challenging.

Why is it that most hot takes involve basically stating that something that is universally acclaimed is actually overrated or terrible?

We need some new hot takes people.

Why do people say something is "universally acclaimed" when it is clearly not, universal is synonymous with unanimous, and the acclaim is certainly not unanimous among everyone.

 

[Sweet Bellic]

Super Mario undoubtedly peaked with SMB3. But SMW is still one of the greatest platformers ever made and is an absolute pleasure to revisit every couple of years.

 

[Guess Who]

I remember being baffled by the thread where a few people were seriously saying Super Mario World looks better than Sonic the Hedgehog.

Super Mario World both looks and sounds like shit compared to any given classic Sonic game. It also looks worse than both the game before it (SMB3) and after it (Yoshi’s Island).

 

[Epcott]

Hot-take™
Hot-take™
Hot-take™
HOOOOT TAAAAAAKE!!!™


Anyways... Always felt SMB3 was better than SMW. The variety alone pushes SMB3 ahead. But NSMB better than SMW? No way... those games lack any real identity aside from “wah wah” and a starry night inspired level.

That’s why I’m so excited for Odyssey... its the return to themed worlds, variety, and insane innovation. It feels like the spiritual successor to SMB3 & SM64.

 

[cartman414]

Agreed with everything in the OP.

You forgot to add that they drastically reduced the number of power ups, and made the cape so powerful that it's basically the only power up. And it lets you just skip every level like you had unlimited P wings.

Also secret exits are kind of neat, but having to replay the same level back to back to get all the forks is boring. The secret parts of levels should end with a switch that just unlocks the new path once you clear the standard exit in the same visit.

I also prefer the tight obstacle focused nature of 3 to W's tilt towards exploration, which only got worse with YI. But that's subjective.

Only part I disagree with is that YI is not better, YI sucks.


I felt this way at the time of release of 3 and W and I have replayed both games in their entirety no warps in the last 2 weeks.

It works with Yoshi's Island, because Yoshi is better geared towards exploratory platforming than Mario.

 

[Felspawn]

 

[DiamondDog74]

I didn't grow up with the series but world always felt better to me. 3 is great but world seemed more streamlined and cleaner. Thete are things to get discover in world that add to the fun. YI feels bloated. Too much management of coins, stars and flowers that it just feels like a huge chore. I would say Mario wii u did feel like the most fun although there were so many levels that it started to bog down.

 

[Ryman]

"-The world map is stale. As in, nothing happens on it. In SMB3, there would be hammer bros. that would block your way, card games that would appear, the super-secret floating money ship, the levels in world 8 where a hand would grab you to force you to play it. World has an interconnected map, and that's great, but it doesn't compensate."

This is a point in favor of SMW. I just want to play the level, not fuck around with enemies on the map.

 

[Sheroking]

3 is overall more creative but is loaded with auto-scrollers and they're the worst. I think 3 and World are both 9/10 platformers.

NSMBU has some really good design, but suffers from boring presentation and franchise fatigue. It really hurts that game that the lesser NSMB2 released a couple months earlier.

Yoshi's Island.... I don't like. I don't like the pastel visuals or the baby mario stuff. Even the music is against my tastes.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Have to disagree with the bolded above. I can't fathom how anybody could feel this way.

Perhaps you could explain why? What about NSMB U was surprising? In what ways was it not a very safe sequel? In what ways did the level design exceed that of NSMB Wii?

Haha, yes. And funnily enough it's a game from the same series. I actually felt the coin collecting gimmick made it feel like the one game in the series that actually tried to do something slightly different. I hope the Gold Mario powerup makes a return someday.

 

[leroidys]

Yep, complete with good descriptions and arguments. Welcome to the enlightened side OP.

 

[bionic77]

It is a hot take, though?

The OP gave very detailed reasons. Moreover, he's not being hyperbolic. He's just saying that he thinks some really good games are better than one other really good game.

He says it is not all that which I take to mean he doesn't think the game is very good.

Hard to convince me it is not one of the better platformers ever created.

 

[Indelible]

You could make a argument for 3 and YI but NSMBU is boring as hell and dosen't come close to SMW.

 

[EmSeta]

Couldn’t disagree more. Having recently replayed all the Mario games, World stands out to me as the most refined and inventive of the games. I love that it mixes up themes instead of slavishly sticking to the world themes.

I love that there’s no collectibles. Finding exits is so much more fun than hunting for items. I love that the levels aren’t too long (like in Yoshi’s Island). I love that I can go back and explore the entire map and replay levels (unlike SMB3). The music and art style is fantastic (unlike the NSMB games).

I think it’s definately my favorite 2D Mario.

 

[Flying Fish]

I also don't think every Mario game needs to follow the grass world ice world water world fire world desert world sky world Bowser world formula, though there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Yeah Super Mario World has definitely lost a lot of its veneer over the years, and I do believe that New Super Mario Bros. U is the best 2D Mario to date.