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[Narpas Sword0]

So I can kind of understand where people are coming from with this complaint, but I don't think it holds water. Donut Plains, Vanilla Dome, Butter Bridge, The Forest of Illusion, Star Road, Valley of Bowser all have a distinct theme and identity. The only ones that you can possibly make a case for are maybe Yoshi's Island (the level) and Chocolate Island being too similar, but that's being generous.

Half of Donut Plains levels are underwater, underground, or ghost houses that all have the same tile set as Vanilla Dome. The other half have the same tile set as the starting island.

Chocolate has basically the same style as the first island and Donut Plains except a different palette. Even as a 6 year old I was disappointed by this.

Then Bowser's area looks basically the same as Vanilla Dome again.

Forest of Illusion is the most unique area in the game, another thing I noticed even as a child. But some of those stages borrow some foreground stuff from the Bridges also (and the actual bridges are like 2-3 levels so you can't get too hyped for how unique they look).

Oh and Forest of Illusion kind of shows how stupid and annoying it is to shrink the game by 20 full on levels in exchange for making you play 20 existing levels twice.

 

[thiscoldblack]

I honestly haven't played beyond the first 2 worlds of NSMBU. Seeing the screenshots on this thread, I will give the game another try.

I still like Super Mario World a lot and it's not even my first Mario. To each his own.

 

[purseowner]

The conclusion everyone needs to reach is that Yoshi's Island is better than all of the above.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Smw = goat

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

It's been explained a number of times why, mostly related to the actual level design.

The level design in NSMBU is phenomenal.

It is VERY heavily based off the level design of the Wii version, just tweaked a bit differently. There are very few ideas in the game that we didn't already see in NSMB Wii.

 

[jstripes]

Fun fact: when Mario World came out, it really wasn't seen as this incredible perfect hit. People in another thread on here marveled that it "only" got 8s and 9s from Famitsu, and plenty of reviews and consumer comments at the time remarked that the graphics didn't look nearly as outstanding as they assumed a SNES game would (they were right), or that the game basically looked and felt like a souped up NES title rather than a generational leap.

I was 12 when it came out, so I couldn't care less. I was hyped as fuck for the game, and it lived up to all my expectations.

Hindsight is another matter.

*walks in, drops mic*

Super Mario World's artstyle is the NSMB artstyle of the 16 bit era. Bland pastel colors, ugly highlights, wonky looking sprites.

They really did miss a good opportunity to put the SNES's graphics to the test. The art direction is terrible compared to games like Sonic, which something teenage me would have never said.

 

[DrGrus]

As one that didn't have a snes nor a friend with a snes I have actually never played SMW. However I did have a NES with smb1, 2(USA) and a friend with 3. I still enjoy all of them.

I also highly enjoy nsmb and nsmb Wii. So I would assume that I would enjoy SMW.

To be honest I don't think I can rank the 2D marios I have played. All of them gives me something. The original NES games is fore me pure nostalgia and according to me still good games even due I miss saves.

NSMB was for me the return of an old lost friend, I have never been good at 3D games so 3D Mario has so far not given me the same feeling as the classic NES games I grow up on.

NSMBWii is just really good.

 

[MisterHero]

That's a decent argument, but then NSMBU came out as a launch title as well and was an improvement over NSMBWii with much better art, the most variety in visuals in the series, better level design, better and more powerups, and better features. SMW's development was similar as well. They started by importing SMB3 to SNES, and SMW was originally going to feature SMB3's powerups.

Here's a beta screenshot of NSMBU using NSMBWii assets:

And here's the same level in the finished game:

It's also worth noting that SMB3 is more of a sequel to SMB1/Lost Levels than it is to SMB2USA. It has a "most improved" feeling between those two than between SMB3 and SMW.

 

[bounchfx]

Destroyed your own argument the moment you included nsmbu, I can't even

 

[The Llama]

At least we can all agree that SMB2 is trash.

 

[VDenter]

The conclusion everyone needs to reach is that Yoshi's Island is better than all of the above.

But its not even a mainline Mario game? It was a spin off that spun off into its own series. It is way too different to compare to the other Mario games.

 

[ZoddGutts]

Always liked 3 the more than World. While I enjoyed my time with World, I always went back to 3 to replay it, not so much with World.

 

[Toxi]

At least we can all agree that SMB2 is trash.

Which one?

 

[VDenter]

Which one?

Both.

 

[cartman414]

For one thing World is so much better than 3, it has the better controls and level design. YI is also not better but that doesn't even play the same as World so the comparison is moot. U maybe, maybe comes close but IMO it's still not better. World is the best 2D Mario. Deal with it.

Yeah, no. World did feel pedestrian, less challenging and varied compared to 3.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

The New Super Mario Bros. U love in this thread makes me so happy.

Game is soooooo good.

I honestly think the visuals in that game are really great. It's only the audio presentation that drags things down a bit for me.

I hope the next 2D Mario game has a challenge mode. Such a great addition to the series.

 

[Oblivion]

Both.

SMB2JP? Yes. SMB2USA? Nah. I mean, it's not great, but it's not too bad either.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Haha, yes. And funnily enough it's a game from the same series. I actually felt the coin collecting gimmick made it feel like the one game in the series that actually tried to do something slightly different. I hope the Gold Mario powerup makes a return someday.

I passed on NSMB 2 because it seemed so rote, but I also passed on NSMB 1 when it came out because it felt less ambitious than Super Mario World.

In hindsight I was unfair to NSMB DS, I played through it for the first time last year and was pleasantly surprised by it. It really does feel like a modern take on a back-to-basics Mario, and importantly it wasn't a retro indulgence.

 

[cartman414]

This is actually interesting. I played SMW back in the day and never YI. I replayed SMW on my SNES Classic and immediately loved it again. I am working my way through YI and I don't like it as much. The levels are longer and drag in places and there is less of a focus on pure platforming. I don't really enjoy the egg throwing mechanic.

Obviously YI is gorgeous but I never thought of SMW as ugly. The wonkiness of some of the designs I always thought were cute.

It seems like some of your points apply to certain games and not to others in the series. I wouldn't say that YI levels so far are themed by group (though some do have unique gimmicks, like the infamous TOUCH FUZZY GET DIZZY). I guess I'm in world 3.

Problem with SMW is that there isn't enough platforming focus, as it takes a bit of a backside to exploration.

Yoshi's Island is far less pure platforming out of the box by virtue of the egg-throwing mechanics.

 

[Soodanim]

I wish I'd read this thread much earlier in the day, as now I have the urge to play NSMBU+Luigi, as well as other Wii/WiiU platformers I own but forget I have.

I still really enjoy Super Mario World, but I think it's because it's the whole package of timeless music, fun power ups and memorable areas that does it. It's more of a relaxing game to play than a challenging one. It's the same as Symphony of the Night in that regard.

 

[Sciz]

World is a lot more concerned with providing interesting spaces for its litany of mechanics to interact with each other than it is with being difficult, and that's the precise reason why I adore it. It's a game that wants you to pick stuff up and throw it around, and throw Mario himself around, and gives you all the tools you need to do so with reckless abandon.

It also chucked most of 3's ideas out the window, which is something the series needs to do way more often or it just stagnates, as seen in the NSMBs. Having a few dozen new ideas doesn't matter nearly as much when there's a few hundred old ones still kicking around. Cut the old material, give the new stuff more room to breathe.

 

[jviggy43]

The conclusion everyone needs to reach is that Yoshi's Island is better than all of the above.

Na. I'm struggling to even find the motivation to get past W1, let alone the whole game. I would put most of the marios over it.

 

[jts]

Smw = goat

Well put.

Sweet 16bit graphics and beautiful art

Cool flying mechanics

A saving system

A god damn dinosaur is your ride

Which has special color-coded abilities

You can hatch said dinosaur and nurture him to adulthood

Beautiful continuous world map that gives a sense of choice and exploration and adventure

Tons of secrets

Cute short animations for each castle

Star Road

Special World

Post-world

Mask Koopas

Mega Moles

And I could go on.

 

[OmegaDL50]

Destroyed your own argument the moment you included nsmbu, I can't even

Let me guess. You are basing this comment entirely on the premise of it's art style rather than its level design.

In fact I wonder how many folks just decided to write off NSMBU as a whole entirely on the basis of its art style And / Or never played it because of that reason, regardless of the quality of it's level design, seeing as most of the criticism in this thread is almost entirely emphasized on "Wah wah" and "Bad Art" reasons, and lack of comments on the level design in itself, this might be something of note worth mentioning.

World is a lot more concerned with providing interesting spaces for its litany of mechanics to interact with each other than it is with being difficult, and that's the precise reason why I adore it. It's a game that wants you to pick stuff up and throw it around, and throw Mario himself around, and gives you all the tools you need to do so with reckless abandon.

It also chucked most of 3's ideas out the window, which is something the series needs to do way more often or it just stagnates, as seen in the NSMBs. Having a few dozen new ideas doesn't matter nearly as much when there's a few hundred old ones still kicking around. Cut the old material, give the new stuff more room to breathe.

I remember Nintendo once did this with Super Mario Sunshine and because of such it was generally panned to be not as good as SM64 or it just wasn't SM64 part 2 enough...for some folks at least. Yet for the same reasons with SMG the game was highly praised. It's interesting how changing the formula and adding new mechanics alters the perception when the core mechanics of the games largely remains to same. I just find this aspect to be an interesting parallel.

 

[Cookie Dough]

Is SMB3 better than SMW? There's a very strong case that it is. NSMBU though? No.

Yoshi's Island needs more love. Only monsters hate this game. It's not as good as SMW though.

 

[flintstryker]

Is SMB3 better than SMW? There's a very strong case that it is. NSMBU though? No.

Yoshi's Island needs more love. Only monsters hate this game. It's not as good as SMW though.

why not?

 

[Narpas Sword0]

Let me guess. You are basing this comment entirely on the premise of it's art style rather than its level design.

In fact I wonder how many folks just decided to write off NSMBU as a whole entirely on the basis of its art style And / Or never played it because of that reason, regardless of the quality of it's level design, seeing as most of the criticism in this thread is almost entirely emphasized on "Wah wah" and "Bad Art" reasons, and lack of comments on the level design in itself, this might be something of note worth mentioning.



I remember Nintendo once did this with Super Mario Sunshine and because of such it was generally panned to be not as good as SM64 or it just wasn't SM64 part 2 enough...for some folks at least. Yet for the same reasons with SMG the game was highly praised. It's interesting how changing the formula and adding new mechanics alters the perception when the core mechanics of the games largely remains to same. I just find this aspect to be an interesting parallel.

SMS cut the old material and made the new material blue coins and pachinko machines

 

[cartman414]

World is a lot more concerned with providing interesting spaces for its litany of mechanics to interact with each other than it is with being difficult, and that's the precise reason why I adore it. It's a game that wants you to pick stuff up and throw it around, and throw Mario himself around, and gives you all the tools you need to do so with reckless abandon.

It also chucked most of 3's ideas out the window, which is something the series needs to do way more often or it just stagnates, as seen in the NSMBs. Having a few dozen new ideas doesn't matter nearly as much when there's a few hundred old ones still kicking around. Cut the old material, give the new stuff more room to breathe.

The result was a lateral at best shift, though. Not really enough to substitute what was cut out.

One thing about the cape powerup that hasn't yet been covered here is the degree to which it reduces the speed of Mario's downward trajectory when the jump button is held down, making the platforming even easier. Also, the spin jump/attack with the cape give Mario a little too much defensive power.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Mario 3 is king, yes.

 

[JudgmentJay]

I can accept that one might like SMB3 more, and I definitely like Yoshi's Island more, but NSMBU? Get out.

 

[Chill Penguin]

My favorite 2d Mario is Mario World and my favorite 3d Mario is Mario 64 for pretty much the same reason. Its controls are flawless compared to the other games in the series. World's razor sharp responsiveness and physics combined with an imaginative art style and full sounding audio give it a liveliness and vibrancy that is missing from the other 2d Marios. It simply comes to life and captivates you, and the way it controls lends itself to exploring the game's many secrets.

 

[Scully Scully Scoo]

Didn’t realise people disliked nsmbw/u artstyle, personally think it’s great and makes the older games look really bad. It retains that mario charm but brings it to the modern age.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

3>Yi>SMW

 

[mrmickfran]

3 and YI, I can understand. But NSMBU? Helllll no

 

[Chill Penguin]

I have to say I've always found it incredible that Mario World was released a year after Mario 3. Nintendo was just pumping out classics like it was nothing back then.

 

[Nocturnowl]

With recent unexplained dismissals of it, I just gotta jump in and say that NSBU is pretty damn great, easily equals 3 and World.
It basically kneecaps itself with audiovisual familiarity, you know, to give the rest a chance and not being left behind.

 

[kitzkozan]

Problem with SMW is that there isn't enough platforming focus, as it takes a bit of a backside to exploration.

This might be the #1 reason why it's the favorite for many fans of Mario games? No 2D Mario game is perfect and they all have a different structure and intent behind them. People pick their favorite depending on their own taste and bias as expected lol.

 

[R0ckman]

NSMBU is garbage.

I don't think I even finished NSMBU, had to force myself to finish 3D World, invited my friends over who are big Mario fans, grew up on these, we actually all fell asleep playing 3D World. I think we got to the 3rd world and started dozing off lol.

On the flip side can't wait for Odyssey and took off for it lol.

 

[Sciz]

I have to say I've always found it incredible that Mario World was released a year after Mario 3. Nintendo was just pumping out classics like it was nothing back then.

The original Japanese time gap is just over two years. Which is still pretty impressive, but not quite as ridiculously much.

 

[Neff]

nah world is better than all of those

 

[Jonneh3003]

New Super Mario Bros U has pretty great art imo. The backgrounds alone are tremendous. Samey in relation to other NSMB games, sure, it's still pretty all the same.

 

[OmegaDL50]

With recent unexplained dismissals of it, I just gotta jump in and say that NSBU is pretty damn great, easily equals 3 and World.
It basically kneecaps itself with audiovisual familiarity, you know, to give the rest a chance and not being left behind.

I'd say the "unexplained dismissals" have everything to the audiovisual aspects of the game.

To be honest I've never read a criticism in regards to NSMBU that wasn't about the Visuals or the audio portion of the game. In fact most of the detractors don't ever talk about the level design or platforming of the game. Something I find interesting to observe.

 

[III-V]

SMW introduces many gameplay elements that simply were not there in 3. Of course, the same can be said for 3 to before 1/2. These titles were all groundbreaking.

Maybe looking back, it’s easy to take these tiles for granted.

NSMBU was not groundbreaking, although it was a fun game, I really enjoyed it.

Every once and again, I still go and replay SMW. There is a nostalgia factor, no doubt, but the game still holds up.

 

[RagnarokX]

With recent unexplained dismissals of it, I just gotta jump in and say that NSBU is pretty damn great, easily equals 3 and World.
It basically kneecaps itself with audiovisual familiarity, you know, to give the rest a chance and not being left behind.

To be fair, though, It's not like the familiarity is exactly a NSMB issue like people make it out to be. It's especially silly when people bring it up but give SMW a pass even though SMW was a step backwards on visual variety from SMB3.

It's fine to want new concepts, but blaming NSMB for not doing what most other Mario games also didn't do is unfair. And the dismissal is especially troubling when NSMBU looks so good.

 

[Chill Penguin]

The original Japanese time gap is just over two years. Which is still pretty impressive, but not quite as ridiculously much.

Ah that makes a bit more sense.

 

[Sciz]

To be honest I've never read a criticism in regards to NSMBU that wasn't about the Visuals or the audio portion of the game. In fact most of the detractors don't ever talk about the level design or platforming of the game. Something I find interesting to observe.

I have trouble talking about U's level design because I honestly don't remember most of it. All of the interesting bits were tucked away in challenge mode, while the main game felt too familiar to develop an identity to call its own.

 

[fester]

I'd say the "unexplained dismissals" have everything to the audiovisual aspects of the game.

To be honest I've never read a criticism in regards to NSMBU that wasn't about the Visuals or the audio portion of the game. In fact most of the detractors don't ever talk about the level design or platforming of the game. Something I find interesting to observe.

Because in order to play the levels, one must constantly look at the games visuals. And when it looks like ass and has some of the most annoying sounds/music, you're going to have a tough sell. SMW is the complete package: graphics, level design, platforming.

 

[Jonneh3003]

To be fair, though, It's not like the familiarity is exactly a NSMB issue like people make it out to be. It's especially silly when people bring it up but give SMW a pass even though SMW was a step backwards on visual variety from SMB3.

It's fine to want new concepts, but blaming NSMB for not doing what most other Mario games also didn't do is unfair. And the dismissal is especially troubling when NSMBU looks so good.

This certainly puts things in perspective.

 

[Starzonedge]

And different music.

And different physics altogether.

 

[jasminlovesyoux]

Some days I like Mario 3 more, others Mario World. Both are my favorite Mario games, but I flip flop between deciding which is superior. I've never included yoshis island in the running, because it's too drastically different. But one thing I know for sure, saying nsmb is better than world is pure insanity!

One further note about the nsmb series, while being solid enough platformers, neither are as ground breaking as 3 and World. Nsmb just played it way too safe and didn't do anything to make themselves as impressive as 3 and world.