Neither those without Children. Noone said anything about "authority"
You're not the parent of a child I'm willing to put money on. Life isn't as simple as 1 plus 1 is 2
Children changes everything. I have three myself. 2, 4 and 6.
Neither those without Children. Noone said anything about "authority"
All possible treatments have been exhausted though.This is where my morality gets all screwed up.
1. We want to give parents, or at least a mother, the right to abort perfectly healthy fetuses, based primarily on the "I control what I do with my own body" argument. Pro-choice. Which, I support btw.
2. We allow a hospital to determine when hope and/or treatment for a terminally ill baby has "expired", even if it's against the wishes of the parents. Despite the fact that not all possible treatments have actually been exhausted. But rather, that all state-approved treatments have been exhausted. Aka, Curriculum Death. They tried everything THEY know, it all failed, so they come to the board-approved conclusion of just letting the baby die.
I just can't line these two things up to achieve a consistent moral view.
(The reason I chose abortion here is because "Choice" is being battled over in courts before a child is born, but after the child is born, we're willing to concede life & death decisions to the state? I agree stuff like vaccines should be mandatory, because it promotes life. But when it comes to pulling the cord and surrendering to death, I don't think the state should have final say. Just my 2 cents.)
This is where my morality gets all screwed up.[...]
I just can't line these two things up to achieve a consistent moral view.
If (big if) the experimental treatment had worked, it would only be curing the illness, not undoing the severe damage the illness has already caused. Experimental treatment or no, the child's quality of life would remain the same.
This is where my morality gets all screwed up.
1. We want to give parents, or at least a mother, the right to abort perfectly healthy fetuses, based primarily on the "I control what I do with my own body" argument. Pro-choice. Which, I support btw.
2. We allow a hospital to determine when hope and/or treatment for a terminally ill baby has "expired", even if it's against the wishes of the parents. Despite the fact that not all possible treatments have actually been exhausted. But rather, that all state-approved treatments have been exhausted. Aka, Curriculum Death. They tried everything THEY know, it all failed, so they come to the board-approved conclusion of just letting the baby die.
I just can't line these two things up to achieve a consistent moral view.
(The reason I chose abortion here is because "Choice" is being battled over in courts before a child is born, but after the child is born, we're willing to concede life & death decisions to the state? I agree stuff like vaccines should be mandatory, because it promotes life. But when it comes to pulling the cord and surrendering to death, I don't think the state should have final say. Just my 2 cents.)
2. We allow a hospital to determine when hope and/or treatment for a terminally ill baby has "expired", even if it's against the wishes of the parents. Despite the fact that not all possible treatments have actually been exhausted. But rather, that all state-approved treatments have been exhausted. Aka, Curriculum Death. They tried everything THEY know, it all failed, so they come to the board-approved conclusion of just letting the baby die.
Trump's come in on Twitter saying:
"If we can help little #CharlieGard, as per our friends in the U.K. and the Pope, we would be delighted to do so."
Trump's come in on Twitter saying:
"If we can help little #CharlieGard, as per our friends in the U.K. and the Pope, we would be delighted to do so."
Because there is nothing, ever, on this earth more painful than losing your child.
If you were a parent you would understand, I don't agree with their choice, he was hurting and they had to let go.
But the idea of letting your child die is worse than your own death, it's hell.
This will haunt both of them for the rest of their lives, I feel immense sympathy for them.
I was born with a congenital heart defect that threatened my life as an infant, and my parents never gave up on me. I abhor the idea that a court could have forced them to cease caring for me, just because the odds weren't in my favor.
That said, it sounds like irreversible damage has already been done to the child, and the parents are merely looking to prolong a life that will be short and painful regardless of whether or not he is treated successfully. I don't really know what side to take.
I have a daughter who was terminal at birth. I am glad the hospital laid out the risks for us and let us make the decision on if she should stay on life support during the first six weeks of her life (premature).
Risks given were:
50% survival chance
Unknown duration of treatment (she was in the hospital for 3 months before home)
High risk of some form of brain damage
Vision impairment up to potential blindness
Multiple blood transfusions likely required (2 at that time, was a total of 5)
We were warned no heavy touching/petting due to skin was too new and may be painful to her.
At what percentage and how long do you try before you decide to remove support? Who should get to decide and when is the question? If the hospital, the tone in their voice tells me it would have been a different choice for my daughter.
By the way she is 17 now, senior in highschool, ROTC, Volleyball, Honor Roll, just started her first job. She has a mild case of Cerebral Palsy and wears strong glasses.
If she had the ability to choose at birth, she would have likely pulled out, because it was clear she was suffering. Not sure she would agree with that now.
Pro lifer trash has latched onto this, they held a protest in the US.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/p...f-of-charlie-gard-in-front-of-british-embassy
The parents are really ramping up their attempts to make their baby suffer too. Releasing pictures of his passport, putting a je suis Charlie tag on his arm. A small group (called Charlie's Army) has also been protesting throughout the week, once in front of Buckingham Palace and today they apparently marched on Downing Street.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/p...f-of-charlie-gard-in-front-of-british-embassy
Sigh.
They're doing this for publicity
the ECHR is transnational and and not part of any government.Came into this thread expecting support for a government denying parents a last-ditch chance to save their child's life. Never change, GAF.
Please change, GAF.
So many comments in this thread fucking infuriate me, calling the parents stupid and irresponsible for not wanting their goddamn fucking child to die. Would you, in their position, not want the same thing? Its your child. If theres a way to save them, why not take it? Goddamn, I used to think this community was empathetic, but I was wrong.
So many comments in this thread fucking infuriate me, calling the parents stupid and irresponsible for not wanting their goddamn fucking child to die. Would you, in their position, not want the same thing? It's your child. If there's a way to save them, why not take it? Goddamn, I used to think this community was empathetic, but I was wrong.
So many comments in this thread fucking infuriate me, calling the parents stupid and irresponsible for not wanting their goddamn fucking child to die. Would you, in their position, not want the same thing? Its your child. If theres a way to save them, why not take it? Goddamn, I used to think this community was empathetic, but I was wrong.
It wont cure it, I know, but it will lessen some of the conditions and reduce some of the damage. Theyd have some part of their child back. Are you a parent? If you are, then how can you so easily sit back and say youd be okay watching a child die? If you arent, then you dont really have the experience of being a parent/having a child to comment.there is no chance to save it tho.
No. Im a parent who wouldnt want my child to die.Not empathetic to not want to child to suffer any more than he has already suffered? What the hell are you on did you even bother to read what has happened to the baby or is it more fun to throw shit at others from your high horse?
So many comments in this thread fucking infuriate me, calling the parents stupid and irresponsible for not wanting their goddamn fucking child to die. Would you, in their position, not want the same thing? Its your child. If theres a way to save them, why not take it? Goddamn, I used to think this community was empathetic, but I was wrong.
It wont cure it, I know, but it will lessen some of the conditions and reduce some of the damage. Theyd have some part of their child back. Are you a parent? If you are, then how can you so easily sit back and say youd be okay watching a child die? If you arent, then you dont really have the experience of being a parent/having a child to comment.
No. Im a parent who wouldnt want my child to die.
Or is that wrong of me to want that?
So many comments in this thread fucking infuriate me, calling the parents stupid and irresponsible for not wanting their goddamn fucking child to die. Would you, in their position, not want the same thing? Its your child. If theres a way to save them, why not take it? Goddamn, I used to think this community was empathetic, but I was wrong.
No child should have to go through any suffering, but no child deserves to be dead either. As a parent myself, I would do whatever I can to keep my child alive. As it has already been stated, the treatment can lessen the severity of the condition. He may still be brain damaged, but hed regain some part of his life. Or are you saying all brain damaged people should die?Your entire argument is framed in a way that it reads to me like any amount of suffering of a child is ok if the parents get something from it, which is a horrifying precedent to suggest
It wont cure it, I know, but it will lessen some of the conditions and reduce some of the damage. Theyd have some part of their child back. Are you a parent? If you are, then how can you so easily sit back and say youd be okay watching a child die? If you arent, then you dont really have the experience of being a parent/having a child to comment.
No. Im a parent who wouldnt want my child to die.
Or is that wrong of me to want that?
It wont cure it, I know, but it will lessen some of the conditions and reduce some of the damage. Theyd have some part of their child back.
So many comments in this thread fucking infuriate me, calling the parents stupid and irresponsible for not wanting their goddamn fucking child to die. Would you, in their position, not want the same thing? It's your child. If there's a way to save them, why not take it? Goddamn, I used to think this community was empathetic, but I was wrong.
No child should have to go through any suffering, but no child deserves to be dead either. As a parent myself, I would do whatever I can to keep my child alive. As it has already been stated, the treatment can lessen the severity of the condition. He may still be brain damaged, but hed regain some part of his life. Or are you saying all brain damaged people should die?
No child should have to go through any suffering, but no child deserves to be dead either. As a parent myself, I would do whatever I can to keep my child alive. As it has already been stated, the treatment can lessen the severity of the condition. He may still be brain damaged, but hed regain some part of his life. Or are you saying all brain damaged people should die?
So many comments in this thread fucking infuriate me, calling the parents stupid and irresponsible for not wanting their goddamn fucking child to die. Would you, in their position, not want the same thing? Its your child. If theres a way to save them, why not take it? Goddamn, I used to think this community was empathetic, but I was wrong.
No child should have to go through any suffering, but no child deserves to be dead either. As a parent myself, I would do whatever I can to keep my child alive.
No child should have to go through any suffering, but no child deserves to be dead either. As a parent myself, I would do whatever I can to keep my child alive. As it has already been stated, the treatment can lessen the severity of the condition. He may still be brain damaged, but hed regain some part of his life. Or are you saying all brain damaged people should die?
No child should have to go through any suffering, but no child deserves to be dead either. As a parent myself, I would do whatever I can to keep my child alive. As it has already been stated, the treatment can lessen the severity of the condition. He may still be brain damaged, but hed regain some part of his life. Or are you saying all brain damaged people should die?
The issue isn't that the parents should have the right to keep their child alive, it's that their child is suffering, there is no hope and doctors have stated that keeping this child alive is only prolonging it's suffering.
In the US if you have the money, the parents could have kept this child alive forever, because as long as you have money there will be doctors willing to test experimental procedures or medicine that could help. Even in this case the American Doctor said that he doesn't see this as working or if it did, doing anything beyond helping with some of the symptoms, but only after the child goes through a very painful procedure.
No disrespect to the US doctors, but the doctors are Great Ormond Street Hospital are widely considered some of the best child/infant doctors and nurses in the whole world.
In the exact same situation, I would most likely be doing the same thing as the parent. I couldn't think rationally, beyond what do I do to keep my child alive? That's why in this case the doctors had a duty of care to present this to parents and eventually to the courts. From the outside I can say I think the right decision was made.
A really disturbing lack of empathy in this thread.
As a parent I would like to think I'd make the decision to let my child move on in peace but I certainly won't begrudge these parents their feelings.
But, that's forums for you I guess.
A really disturbing lack of empathy in this thread.
As a parent I would like to think I'd make the decision to let my child move on in peace but I certainly won't begrudge these parents their feelings.
But, that's forums for you I guess.