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Aljazerra to air "new" video from Bin Laden
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Phoenix
Member
JoshuaJSlone said:
That's odd being that I never expressed how much damage was done by Country A, B or Force C. What it does is hilight that you really don't care about looking at things objectively and will simply stick to the 'they started it, so its all their fault' line.
It has happened before by SWAT officers trying to subdue criminals with automatic weapons. People investigate whether that much force was necessary and if reasonable steps were taken to make sure no one else were killed. If so and the grenade bounces off the wall because you missed and flies across the street unexpectedly and kills 5 people is just a fucked up situation - and its not something that is considered a crime. It is accurately referred to as a tragic incident....
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
gofreak, the abhorrence of civilian casualties is admirable but at some point it must bend to reality. Is no military action justifiable because of the likelihood of civilian casualties?
And remember, Saddam was given ample opportunity to leave the country, quit stealing Iraqi oil, and abandon his elaborate totalitarian police state. He chose to stay, fight, and pursue specific tactics that put civilians at great risk. If he left, and the insurgents decided to pursue other lines of work, there would have been very few civilian casualties and Iraq would be a much better place. In light of that, why place all of the blame for civilian casualties on the American military?
How do you view the civilian casualties of the first Gulf War? Who had the moral high ground there?
I'll be happy to address any specific questions you think I neglected. Please repost those you want answered.
And remember, Saddam was given ample opportunity to leave the country, quit stealing Iraqi oil, and abandon his elaborate totalitarian police state. He chose to stay, fight, and pursue specific tactics that put civilians at great risk. If he left, and the insurgents decided to pursue other lines of work, there would have been very few civilian casualties and Iraq would be a much better place. In light of that, why place all of the blame for civilian casualties on the American military?
How do you view the civilian casualties of the first Gulf War? Who had the moral high ground there?
I'll be happy to address any specific questions you think I neglected. Please repost those you want answered.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
For those interested here's a link to the transcripts which basically includes what the news didn't think was important for you to hear or read, for that matter.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exe...BC36E87F61F.htm
Some are inclined to agree with him, particularly conspiracy theorist. The thought of Bush starting a war to apease corporations like Haliburton, whose primary source of income is the sales of military weapons to the U.S Military.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exe...BC36E87F61F.htm
Some are inclined to agree with him, particularly conspiracy theorist. The thought of Bush starting a war to apease corporations like Haliburton, whose primary source of income is the sales of military weapons to the U.S Military.
Makura, you still haven't replied to this.
True or false: United States foreign policy has shaped how the Middle East views our country.
You are the one that makes people nauseous with your disgusting methods of spreading horseshit in lieu of debate. I'm not going to take it any longer. I'm not a mod or admin, and I don't delude myself into thinking that I have any pull around here, but I'm going to make a snotty, vicious reply whenever you post in a thread from now on because you have prove yourself to be utterly below respect and tolerance. If I had to choose between getting tortured by the CIA and having lunch with someone like you, I would gladly choose the torture. I wouldn't want to catch idiot's disease.
Anyhow, I'm sure this idiot is going to put me on ignore after Operation Bitchslap has fully commenced. If you guys could do me a favor and just quote whatever venom I toss his way, that would be super. I wouldn't want him to miss anything!
True or false: United States foreign policy has shaped how the Middle East views our country.
You are the one that makes people nauseous with your disgusting methods of spreading horseshit in lieu of debate. I'm not going to take it any longer. I'm not a mod or admin, and I don't delude myself into thinking that I have any pull around here, but I'm going to make a snotty, vicious reply whenever you post in a thread from now on because you have prove yourself to be utterly below respect and tolerance. If I had to choose between getting tortured by the CIA and having lunch with someone like you, I would gladly choose the torture. I wouldn't want to catch idiot's disease.
Anyhow, I'm sure this idiot is going to put me on ignore after Operation Bitchslap has fully commenced. If you guys could do me a favor and just quote whatever venom I toss his way, that would be super. I wouldn't want him to miss anything!
JoshuaJSlone
Member
The point being, as he said in the very next line:Makura said:
[quoteJust because Osama bin Laden says something doesn't automatically make it a lie. Douche.[/quote]
When you expressed mock shock that people agreed with some of what Osama was saying.
xsarien said:
Oh SNAP! - not.
Stop being such disingenuous children. I think you know exactly what I'm talking about. Rather than address the issue you and others prefer to play games.
You, the DNC and the left should be ashamed that your talking points almost exactly mimic those of OBL.
There are no words...Makura said:
Ok, so there are. But they're not fit for tender children's ears, and I don't want to upset Olimario. So I'll just take the high road here and hold firm to my opinion that you are a disingenuous horseshit spewer. Whoops! Stop crying, Oligario!
Makura said:
I think it's telling that when Osama comes out and makes another tape that not only taunts Bush, but also pretty much tells the world that he doesn't "hate freedom" and that his issues are - again - with US foreign policy, you don't have to look to the DNC, the liberal, or the "liberal media" (as laughable an accusation as that is) for where the specious arguments are coming from.
Actually, most of my posts have nothing to do with you.Makura said:
I will concede, that a good portion of the ones that DO concern you, are ad hominem attacks. Because I feel that you aren't worthy of respect. Because I feel that you don't think for yourself. Because, ultimately, you are willfully ignorant. I don't feel that it is in my best interest to treat such a person as a rational, capable adult, because they have not earned my respect, the same way that just because I disagree with George W. Bush on almost everything he has done as President, I will not just vote for John Kerry, because HE has not earned my vote or respect.
But if you want a specific question answered without ad hominem attacks, go ahead and ask. I'll answer one after I eat my lunch here.
Spainkiller
the man who sold the world
Phoenix said:This is just getting worse each time I reply - I feel like I'm debating in high school again
Okay lets look at it from a "tactical level" (whatever that is supposed to mean).
Country A sends people over to secure a country B. Army A( from country A) kills Army B. Conflict between Army A and Army B ends as Army B is no longer an army. Remnants of Army B and other parties become Force C. Army A and Force C engage in combat with each other. People of Army B are purposefully killed by Force C and accidentally killed by Army A while the two are engaged in conflict.
You still don't see the difference?
Suppose a police officer arrives at a crime scene and finds a lady being held by a gunman. The gunman fires on the officer and the officer returns fire on the hostage taker and the hostage is killed in the exchange. Are both at the same level of fault for the hostages death?
'Engaged in combat/conflict' and 'purposely killed' are the same thing. Right? Why does one have a higher moral ground than the other?
Was the gunman there holding the women hostage because of the police officer killed the gunman's family?
Your first example is rubbish and your second is taking things to a personal level. My original point was that a soldier shooting somebody through the head and a terrorist sawing through somebody's neck result in the same thing - death.
Makura said:
Raoul Duke said:
Makura said:
Makura said:
Makura said:
xsarien said:
Wow, now THERE is a nice chain of logic, isn't it? And WE'RE the ones who are "disingenuous children" and "playing games?" Let's have some more fun with quotes, shall we?Makura said:
TOS said:
That's about all I can stand of you in this lifetime. Have fun watching the elections, dude.Merriam-Webster said:
Spainkiller
the man who sold the world
Guileless said:
Of course not. Why should somebody dropping their kids off at school risk their lives for a conflict they have nothing to do with?
Nobody's blaming just the Americans. The state of Iraq is due to a trillion factos. But get this - why was Saddam there in the first place? Hmmmm..... how did he afford to do what he did?
In war, there is no such thing as the moral high ground. It's a disgusting business where EVERYBODY losers. This is my point.
Spainkiller
the man who sold the world
Can you please ignore Makura? An interesting debate is being taken off the rails by his idiocy and those responding to it. He'll get bored soon enough.
Phoenix
Member
JetSetHero said:
Yes in a juvenille after school special kinda way yes. Any death is just death. If you kill someone trying to protect yourself for any reason its death and according to your last statement its just the same as if you ran up on someone and stabbed them in the neck.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
JetSetHero said:
You don't think that the Allies had the moral high ground over the Axis powers in World War II? War is disgusting, but there are times when the alternative to fighting is even more disgusting. The only people who do not understand that are contemporary Westerners, who live the most free, comfortable, and highest quality lives in the history of civilization.
Tell the Kosovar Muslims that the spotty Serbian civilian casualties weren't worth putting a stop to ethnic cleansing and mass graves. I don't think you could convince them. You are completely ignoring the realities of history and human nature.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Raoul Duke said:
i got your back.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
More evidence of the moral high ground in this week's Newsweek. Do any of you consider that opposing people who act like this might actually be a worthy cause?
"Everyone is vulnerable. One evening two weeks ago a group of employees was leaving by bus from the Iraq Hunting Club, a green-lawned retreat once occupied by Ahmad Chalabi, the Pentagon's former favorite exile leader. Only one man survived to tell what happened: gunmen in a passing car fired on the bus, forcing it off the road. The attackers took a heavy machine gun out of the trunk and shot up the bus some more. Then they approached with Kalashnikovs and casually finished off the wounded. The sole witness lived only because he was under a corpse.
A similar massacre on Oct. 20 along the highway to Baghdad airport, again on a mini-bus, killed six women and one man, Iraqi Airways employees on their way to work. The same day, ambushers murdered two women secretaries and a male official who worked in the office of Iraqi interim President Ghazi al-Yawar."
"Everyone is vulnerable. One evening two weeks ago a group of employees was leaving by bus from the Iraq Hunting Club, a green-lawned retreat once occupied by Ahmad Chalabi, the Pentagon's former favorite exile leader. Only one man survived to tell what happened: gunmen in a passing car fired on the bus, forcing it off the road. The attackers took a heavy machine gun out of the trunk and shot up the bus some more. Then they approached with Kalashnikovs and casually finished off the wounded. The sole witness lived only because he was under a corpse.
A similar massacre on Oct. 20 along the highway to Baghdad airport, again on a mini-bus, killed six women and one man, Iraqi Airways employees on their way to work. The same day, ambushers murdered two women secretaries and a male official who worked in the office of Iraqi interim President Ghazi al-Yawar."
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