Huh? all I did was say that my guess would be that they use geometry rendering how does that cast doubt in people's minds?
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All PS4 Pro enhanced games (native support and boosted)
- Thread starter Liabe Brave
- Start date
Huh? all I did was say that my guess would be that they use geometry rendering how does that cast doubt in people's minds?
2blackcats
Member
TEW2 confirmed to be getting a patch though.
Oh I did not know this. I'll wait on buying it until then.
Native or checkerboarded 4K (still undecided, personally I lean on native for this game), with no downsampling for 1080p displays.
PsihoPerihelion
Member
No Checkerboard from what I've seen. Looks either native or Geometry Rendering, but I'm leaning into Native as the game isn't even that demanding. Some asset's look low quality, but not even a PC running at 16K would fix that.
Liabe Brave
Member
Where do you see any evidence of CBR? Also, from what was posted in the thread, instead of downsampling the game has improved AA at 1080p. It looks better than it would downsampled.
RedAndromeda
Neo Member
That's great to hear, at least the 1080p mode gets some love.
Are you sure that it looks better though? Looking at the images side by side, the lines on the 4K screenshot are noticeably cleaner than the ones from the 1080p screenshot.
Liabe Brave
Member
Thanks for the info! I'll alter the list when I update it next. This is an unusual setup--no other game has this approach, where 4K display users have a choice but 1080p display users don't. (Well, technically they do, but it's a nearly superfluous option.) Sony first party evidently feel free to pursue any approach, as Gran Turismo Sport is also unique, in the opposite way: 4K users have no choice (in-game; OS can force it), while 1080p users do have a free choice of modes.
As I said, I know it was unintentional. All you meant was exactly what you said, i.e. "here's my guess". My point was, if lots of people just guess all the time, it builds the impression that everyone is guessing. But they're not. Some people are actually using evidence to come to conclusions, and anyone can learn to do the same.
Well, there are 35 games listed in the OP that claim to be Pro enhanced, but which either haven't been examined, or have been and no support was immediately visible. Surely some or most of these do have enhancements, but I wouldn't bet on all of them. In addition, my records show another 287 games that initially released this year which have not claimed Pro support, and for which I've been unable to find evidence. Some of these may have enhancements anyway, but the fact that they didn't ever claim that lowers the chances they do. So overall, the number of games released in 2017 without Pro support is quite likely to be in triple digits.
Of course, you're actually asking about games above some arbitrary budget threshold, or which feel "big". I can't know what you'd put in that category, but a stab at some higher-profile titles without Pro enhancement might include Cities: Skylines, Sniper: Ghost Warrior 3, or Pillars of Eternity. Ones not confirmed either way include Gundam Versus, Naruto: UNS Legacy. and most of the recent Telltale games.
Well, part of this may be the sharpening filter on the 1080p shot. (I assume this is an artifact of the 4K upscale.) Secondly, I would agree that the 2160p shot has sharper details. The thing is, sharpness is the same thing as aliasing. AA is blur, and if you look closely you can see more gradual transitions in the 1080p shot. These persist even after normalizing their scaling pipelines:
Note how there are more intermediate steps between the contrasting colors of the edges on the foliage, the background, the battle position gridline, or the tip of the sword. The noise textures on flat fields of color do show smoother when downsampled, though; I don't know how notable that'd be in the proposed supersampling version of the game.
People have different tastes, so some might prefer the sharper version. I perhaps shouldn't have used loaded language like "better", and just said that edges appear smoother than if they'd been downsampled.
kurisumasu
Neo Member
Sorry in advance if this is considered a dumb question, if it has been asked already, or if this is the wrong place to ask. How big is the difference in picture quality between native 4k and checkerboard 4k? Is it something really noticeable or would you have to stare at two screens side by side to really notice any differences?
RedAndromeda
Neo Member
@Liabe Brave
I see what you're saying. I'm probably in the category that prefers sharper over smoother like you mentioned.
Thanks for the very detailed answer as always.
Are they equally sharp? Of course not. But 2160c is sharp enough where it's unlikely you will see a difference with the naked eye while playing the game.
I see what you're saying. I'm probably in the category that prefers sharper over smoother like you mentioned.
Thanks for the very detailed answer as always.
From a normal viewing distance, no. In some games not only you need to put the images side by side, but you need to zoom in to see big differences.
Are they equally sharp? Of course not. But 2160c is sharp enough where it's unlikely you will see a difference with the naked eye while playing the game.
Took some screenshots from South Park as I started playing it today. I'm on a 4k HDR TV.
http://i.cubeupload.com/m6ooSd.png
http://i.cubeupload.com/GemLDk.png
http://i.cubeupload.com/xatrOk.png
http://i.cubeupload.com/XnvzR0.png
http://i.cubeupload.com/m6ooSd.png
http://i.cubeupload.com/GemLDk.png
http://i.cubeupload.com/xatrOk.png
http://i.cubeupload.com/XnvzR0.png
Phreakuency
Banned
Not yet released but I was chatting with the Spin Tires Mudrunner people through their Facebook and they confirmed no Pro or X support :/
Also Hob. A game I'd buy if it did have Pro support.
Edit: Elex as well I believe. Another game i would buy.
Isn't it required to have pro support, since the pro released? It doesn't have to do much enhancements, but at least boost mode shouldn't do anything with those games.
Liabe Brave
Member
Hob has some claims to have Pro support, from the developer and the publisher. It's not clear if they just meant it will run at all on Pro (which seems like it wouldn't need to be said, but who knows).
Piranha Bytes have said they plan to add Pro support to Elex with a patch.
Yeah, though I couldn't find any footage at all that hit 60fps, even when there was almost nothing on screen. Whether it's capped at 30fps or uncapped but double-buffered, the end result doesn't vary. I will say that framepacing is so irregular that vsync like you say seems plausible.
Melchettsmoustache
Member
Swithering on ordering a Pro. I have Mario coming shortly for the Switch however the Game White Pro with Destiny 2 looks like a decent purchase at £349?
I do have a 4K tv already
I do have a 4K tv already
Can you test a Youtube video and get the real framerate? I can stream a section is running smooth and other is running poor tonight and give you a link. I don't have capture card, but I think I can stream to 60fps on Youtube and save the video.
The game looks running 2 different framerate, slow or pretty smooth, so I think the game is alternating between 30 and 60fps for me inexpert eye, because there is not visible frame pacing or judder when is choppy or smooth sections
Melchettsmoustache
Member
Jumped in for this today.
https://www.game.co.uk/en/m/glacier...and-additional-dualshock-4-controller-2130030
£379 seems a decent buy
https://www.game.co.uk/en/m/glacier...and-additional-dualshock-4-controller-2130030
£379 seems a decent buy
Miggytronz
Gold Member
Sniped a 2017 Vizio M Series TV. Hooked up the PRO. OMG. I dont want to do anything else but stare at any game using HDR.
fastest finger
Member
Sure. Race The Sun 2160p screenshots. First time I've done this, so hopefully I've done everything right. Let me know if not.
So I guess the good looking 60fps trailers were BS.
Oh well.
NowhereFaded
Member
Is it just me or is destiny 2 super jaggy on the PS4 pro?
Playing on a hdr 4K tv. Sitting closer to a new 55 inch screen. Maybe thats why? Anybody else see this?
Playing on a hdr 4K tv. Sitting closer to a new 55 inch screen. Maybe thats why? Anybody else see this?
Its fairly jaggy even downsampled to 1080p. It uses very low res buffers for alpha effects, volumetric lighting, and DoF which adds a lot of aliasing since those effects are used all over the place in game.
NowhereFaded
Member
Thats what I see too! Thanks for the input!
Phreakuency
Banned
Possibly. Just very disappointing a game/demo that started on PC (and has multiple detail settings) does not have any support for the more powerful consoles.
Yep same here. Destiny 2 on Pro on my 55" 4K TV looks lower res and more jaggy than Destiny 1 on my 55" 1080 TV. :/
Liabe Brave
Member
I should be able to, yes. Thanks in advance!
That is just fine, thanks so much! The game is running at native 2160p. Do you happen to have PSVR? It'd be nice to get some screenshots, or in case those don't reveal anything, some impressions (does it seem sharper in the headset, etc.).
In any case, once again this is much appreciated!
Looks like 2xMSAA on some edges.
Sadly lot of edges are garbage, not really sure what happens here.
It also seems to have 2xMSAA as well.
fastest finger
Member
It doesn't immediately strike me as being sharper in VR than before, but then it has been a while since I last played it so I'm struggling for a frame of reference. Sadly I don't have any pre-patch shots to directly compare.
Here are some VR mode shots I grabbed on my PS4 Pro, but they only captured in 960x720 so not sure how useful they'll be.
@Liabe Brave
I see what you're saying. I'm probably in the category that prefers sharper over smoother like you mentioned.
Thanks for the very detailed answer as always.
From a normal viewing distance, no. In some games not only you need to put the images side by side, but you need to zoom in to see big differences.
Are they equally sharp? Of course not. But 2160c is sharp enough where it's unlikely you will see a difference with the naked eye while playing the game.
That comparison is terrible, as it compares a checkerboard high texture settings to a native very high texture settings. Naturally the high settings checkerboarded picture is going to look more blurry. What we need is a direct comparison to native / checkerboarded with the same amount of texture detail. But that's really hard to find, oddly enough.
RedAndromeda
Neo Member
That's true to a certain extent.
The only thing affected by very high textures would be the blood in this particular screenshot.
Everything else (hand, blue light, face) has the same level of sharpness as you can see here.
https://images.nvidia.com/geforce-c...ractive-comparison-005-very-high-vs-high.html
Unfortunately like you said, it's pretty much impossible to find a comparison with both examples having the same settings, so this is the best we have.
The only thing affected by very high textures would be the blood in this particular screenshot.
Everything else (hand, blue light, face) has the same level of sharpness as you can see here.
https://images.nvidia.com/geforce-c...ractive-comparison-005-very-high-vs-high.html
Unfortunately like you said, it's pretty much impossible to find a comparison with both examples having the same settings, so this is the best we have.
I've seen some mentioning it. But the answer to the next question is: if your display accepts 4K input, you can utilize the resolution. If it doesn't, most don't AFAIK, you are stuck with 1080p. The PS4 Pro can't output 1440p.
pretty done
Member
Blurry as fuck. Worse than a 1080p monitor since PS4 can only select 1080p or 4k.
Liabe Brave
Member
Thanks again! After looking at this, I believe you're correct that it's running at 60fps, but with double-buffered vsync that drops it to 30fps when it struggles. However, it does have some short moments where frames flip at 16ms and 33ms in succession. This could be described as ~45fps, or as 30fps with bad framepacing. With my lack of technical knowledge, I don't know if this behavior is actually possible with a truly double-buffered game. If not, then it may merely be unlocked (but mostly pegging either side of the range).
In any case, on Pro Blue Reflection doesn't drop below 30fps at any point I could see. I went back through regular PS4 footage, and no matter how little was onscreen it never goes above 30fps. So it seems that in addition to the high-resolution geometry, the game also often has twice the framerate as on the standard console. It also often has the same framerate, but 60fps likely predominates due to the amount of simple conversation scenes and exploration. (Battle effects were most of the culprit for drops in your footage.)
I judged it was post-process AA myself, due to this inconsistency. Is there a particular telltale to think instead that it's MSAA that fails a lot?
Much appreciated! Yes, captures of PSVR are often just social screen output, and not indicative of the final display. It does seem that some previous captures were even lower resolution, though, so I believe there's been an improvement. But given your impressions, it's almost certainly not as big a jump as when playing on a standard screen.
Looking at something like this Samsung C32HG70 as a secondary option in my office area to my OLED. In this video, he's using a PS4 Pro on it. At 6:03, he shows the PS4 dash and it's displaying a 4k signal, RGB, etc. Curious how it would look as I'm kind of interested in this monitor.
RedAndromeda
Neo Member
In one of the comments he responded: "Honestly, I'd recommend a nice big 4K HDR TV for a PS4 Pro. But this does work as a HDR monitor for the Pro (although you're limited to 1080p)."
Personally i trust what's shown on screen, but maybe buy it from a store that lets you return items easily, just in case....
Personally i trust what's shown on screen, but maybe buy it from a store that lets you return items easily, just in case....
pretty done
Member
Not sure but I've got the BenQ XL2730Z or something like that and it didn't allow 4k to be selected. Even games like Uncharted 4 which is 1440p looked better and sharper on a 1080p monitor.
If the monitor is allowing 4k from the PS4 I don't imagine you'd have the same upscaling issues
MSAA should never miss whole quads of pixels, which this seems to do.
But this does have that subpixel stairstepping that 2xMSAA does, when it works.
I thought that this could be rendered as 1080p 8xMSAA just like Bound, but that garbage at edges is really strange and it shouldn't be there. (MSAA guarrantees that rasterization is done properly.)
Perhaps this is messed up attempt of geometry rendering with id buffer..
falconxcrunner09
Member
Did LiS Before the Storm get a Pro Patch? It looks 60 FPS now??
Phreakuency
Banned
Says so in the original post on page 1.
Speaking of blocks, I appreciate your efforts a lot, and while the presentation is nice and fancy, with the volume of titles now added a full-text-searchable format would also be nice. Is that available somewhere?
Liabe Brave
Member
Thank you very much for the explanation, makes sense.
I want to maintain this list solely on GAF, so there's no external site. The lists here are searchable, and I recently added a banner link to the instructions how as the very first thing in the OP. Please let me know if there's anything unclear there.
Peterthumpa
Member
Was just watching DF's comparison between Forza 7 and GT Sport, and how jaggies are apparent even with FM7 at a native 4K + 4xMSAA on PC. And then a question came to my mind, something that comes up again and again and I really, really don't understand why.
Why the hell more, if not ALL developers implement TAA as their AA solution? Is it an engine issue? Something else? Good, well implemented temporal anti aliasing does absolutely wonders to IQ, even at low resolutions (see Mario + Rabbids).
UE4's TAA, for instance, is absolutely incredible and as far as I know has a similar cost to exponentially worse AA methods like SMAA or MSAA. Its coverage is unparalleled, and nowadays TAA is definitely fine (non-smeary) for even fast paced games (see Gears of War 4, Paragon, etc).
What gives? Why isn't TAA an industry standard yet?
Why the hell more, if not ALL developers implement TAA as their AA solution? Is it an engine issue? Something else? Good, well implemented temporal anti aliasing does absolutely wonders to IQ, even at low resolutions (see Mario + Rabbids).
UE4's TAA, for instance, is absolutely incredible and as far as I know has a similar cost to exponentially worse AA methods like SMAA or MSAA. Its coverage is unparalleled, and nowadays TAA is definitely fine (non-smeary) for even fast paced games (see Gears of War 4, Paragon, etc).
What gives? Why isn't TAA an industry standard yet?
Just has a slightly better fps when using boost mode. No pro patch for it.
TAA blurs image due to the reprojection, even if it's good.
UE4 solution has some severe trailing artifacts.
There are attempts to fix it at their forums.
For racing games where things move a lot, it may be hard to get artifact free.
MSAA and other sampling methods have problem with HDR if resolve is before tonemapping. (Edges may lose the AA gradient as tonemapped result is within neighbour gradient values.)
This combined with huge dynamic range they want to use and highly reflective cars is really challenging.
Perhaps MSAA with post tonemap resolve and additional coverage samples or GPAA(2) would give great edges.
Liabe Brave
Member
I've removed the lists for now. I'll update the thread once I've decided how to handle them going forward.