Pai Pai Master
Banned
I wouldn't be surprised if Scott goes big at the end or something but I wouldn't expect him to don the classic costume. But it's neat that there's a new toy with the design.
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ANT-MAN | Production Thread
- Thread starter Neoxon
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I wouldn't be surprised if Scott goes big at the end or something but I wouldn't expect him to don the classic costume. But it's neat that there's a new toy with the design.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I haven't heard anything about his contract at all.
Every Marvel contract is for multiple movies.
We gotta believe man.
Dragonborn
Member
Yea, one of the things I'm worried about. I swear if I see one on the big screen I'm going to pass out (really bad arachnophobia).
Because the character and movie seem like afterthoughts now that they've announced Spiderman. I've asked in this very thread how viable the character will be going forward and it all seems up in the air, especially since there is no announced sequel. If there isn't one, who knows? My guess is he's a lock for IW
2, but they will likely have to work him into other announced Marvel movies, though which is up in the air.peanutbutterlatte
Member
Seems a shame that they'd omit one of the original members of the comic team.
And I wouldn't be surprised at all if the way they finally take down Yellow Jacket is unleashing the Giant Man serum/suit/whatever.
And I wouldn't be surprised at all if the way they finally take down Yellow Jacket is unleashing the Giant Man serum/suit/whatever.
You have to ask Kevin Feige and not Neogaf. Relax. Phase IV will surely have a couple of sequels with Phase III characters.Because the character and movie seem like afterthoughts now that they've announced Spiderman. I've asked in this very thread how viable the character will be going forward and it all seems up in the air, especially since there is no announced sequel. If there isn't one, who knows? My guess is he's a lock for IW
Ant-Man is Phase 2 though. But yeah, he might get his sequel after Infinity War. But isn't Thanos supposed to wipe out the Avengers team and leave them dead?
Nobody has read the script.
I will never understand why people hide aussumptions in Spoilertags.
Blame Edgar Wright.
http://www.empireonline.com/interviews/interview.asp?IID=2017
If Wright hadn't dragged his feet and released Ant-Man before Age of Ultron, Ant-Man may have played a more pivotal role in the Avengers.
I wanted to be sure nobody would cry over speculation. People are sensitive to the smallest of things on here. Maybe some haven't read the comics (I haven't) and wouldn't know such an outcome could be one of the possibilities.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Eh, World's End will always be worth Ant-Man being delayed/not directed by Wright. Weird as there's loads of parallels between Ultron and the baddies of that movie.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
I fixed that for you.
Sorry, Infinity Gauntlet is now twenty-four years old.
Also, we should know by now that Marvel movies dont adapt 1:1.
Oh you're one of those.
I am personally not too upset Ant-Man is out of his hands with World's End being as disappointing as it was.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
As much as I love the MCU World's End is a better film than anything to come out of it. But alas, the vastly superior Edgar Wright version of Ant-Man, showing in theaters this Summer in the Ultimate version of our universe, shall never be.
Father_Brain
Banned
Kind of inane to pin that entirely or even primarily on Wright, given that Ant-Man isn't exactly his IP and that Marvel was entirely free to replace him in 2008 or 2011 or whenever.
End of the day, they just didn't want Ant-Man on the Avengers that badly.
If Marvel wanted Ant-Man out before Age of Ultron, they would have either refused Wright's request to do The World's End in 2011 or they would have let him go and put someone else on the movie.
They're the billion-dollar movie studio. They have the power here, not Wright. Wright can't make Marvel do anything that they're not already fine with.
They're the billion-dollar movie studio. They have the power here, not Wright. Wright can't make Marvel do anything that they're not already fine with.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
Marvel was a start up movie studio when Wright pitched Ant-Man to them. Marvel liked his approach and gave him the reigns to do what he does best. Wright missed the window for The Avengers and Whedon couldn't do what he originally planned because of it.
Because of their long standing working relationship, Marvel sympathized with Wright and allowed him to film The Worlds End to complete the Cornetto Trilogy just incase his partner in film died of cancer.
Wright then decided that he didn't want to play ball with the MCU as it had developed in all the time he took to finally get the film rolling, so Marvel decided that they have let him drag this out long enough, and that he was either onboard (with folding in MCU elements) or getting off the ship. Wright jumped ship.
So why can't we blame Wright for not taking the opportunity more seriously just because Marvel gave him plenty of rope and leeway? We could have had an Edgar Wright Ant-Man as early as 2010. He felt he had better things to do, and everyone planned around it, because nothing was to stop the Marvel Train.
I bet if he had known, he would have cranked out Ant-man years ago.
Father_Brain
Banned
Gosh, that Edgar Wright, heartlessly exploiting his friend's death from cancer to screw over the MCU. What a lazy, manipulative bastard.
Anyway, that's a whole lot of opinionated, highly prejudiced speculation stated as fact.
You could have just stopped right here. Marvel liked Wright's idea; they were in favor of the older Pym passing the torch to Lang story. It's not something Wright surprised them with years down the road, they knew and liked the idea from the very beginning.
"Wright not taking the idea more seriously," lol, give me a break. Guy spent eight years working on and off the project and was very clearly fucked up about having to leave it last year. He didn't NOT take the movie seriously, he merely asked permission to shoot another movie first to follow through on a promise to his friend who was dying of cancer. And Marvel said yes! They did not say, no, you must do Ant-Man first you ingrate, or you'll mess up our plans for Ultron! And they did not say, okay, leave, but we need to give the gig to someone else or it'll mess up our plans for Ultron!
No, they said, go ahead, do The World's End, then you can come back and make Ant-Man when you're done with that, no problem. And they said that knowing full well that this meant Ant-Man would come after Age of Ultron. If "nothing was to stop the Marvel Train" then Marvel would have done the movie, with or without Wright, before this year if it actually mattered that much. Guess what? It didn't. They're totally cool with rewriting Ultron's origin for the movies and doing a different take on Pym.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
We've had this discussion long ago and I've held the same position then as I do now.
I don't really want to dive back into that same discussion as more details keep coming out that only support the argument I've had from the start.
Wright had every opportunity to make the movie sooner and didn't. Marvel gave him a long rope with hopes that he would eventually get it done as they liked him, his style and his vision for the movie. Eventually he needed to adapt his vision to the world that was created around the absence of the long expected and long overdue Ant-man, and Wright decided that his vision was no longer his vision so he opted to exit the project.
Whedon altered his original plan for The Avengers due to this, and they then had to alter Age of Ultron due to this as well. They all made it work with or without Wright and Ant-man, so yes, nothing stopped the train labeled MCU.
Marvel is adapting properties in a way that makes sense for the big screen, so once they figured out a way to do what they want with the characters they already have in place, Ant-Man could wait a little bit longer. But eventually investments need to see returns, and a much larger plan was already in play, so Wright either needed to get with the program, or get out of it's way because things were moving forward with or without him.
I don't really want to dive back into that same discussion as more details keep coming out that only support the argument I've had from the start.
Wright had every opportunity to make the movie sooner and didn't. Marvel gave him a long rope with hopes that he would eventually get it done as they liked him, his style and his vision for the movie. Eventually he needed to adapt his vision to the world that was created around the absence of the long expected and long overdue Ant-man, and Wright decided that his vision was no longer his vision so he opted to exit the project.
Whedon altered his original plan for The Avengers due to this, and they then had to alter Age of Ultron due to this as well. They all made it work with or without Wright and Ant-man, so yes, nothing stopped the train labeled MCU.
Marvel is adapting properties in a way that makes sense for the big screen, so once they figured out a way to do what they want with the characters they already have in place, Ant-Man could wait a little bit longer. But eventually investments need to see returns, and a much larger plan was already in play, so Wright either needed to get with the program, or get out of it's way because things were moving forward with or without him.
Father_Brain
Banned
What "details keep coming out," exactly? Vaguely worded Evangeline Lilly quotes that still don't say anything negative about Wright's version of the film?
Edgar Wright has said nothing publicly aside from the deleted Buster Keaton tweet; the only people in a position to talk are those on the Marvel side, which kinda presents a skewed picture of things, no?
And what sort of movie do you think Wright wanted to make, anyway? He'd been working in the MCU for eight years, and he suddenly decided that he didn't want to bother with maintaining shared universe continuity? Is it really that implausible that there were no particular continuity issues with Wright's script, that it wasn't a matter of Wright obstinately refusing to play ball with the rest of the MCU or whatnot, and that Marvel's concerns were primarily or solely about its perceived marketability?
Also, reading the Whedon quote, it doesn't even sound like making Pym responsible for Ultron's origin was ever really on the table.
Edgar Wright has said nothing publicly aside from the deleted Buster Keaton tweet; the only people in a position to talk are those on the Marvel side, which kinda presents a skewed picture of things, no?
And what sort of movie do you think Wright wanted to make, anyway? He'd been working in the MCU for eight years, and he suddenly decided that he didn't want to bother with maintaining shared universe continuity? Is it really that implausible that there were no particular continuity issues with Wright's script, that it wasn't a matter of Wright obstinately refusing to play ball with the rest of the MCU or whatnot, and that Marvel's concerns were primarily or solely about its perceived marketability?
Also, reading the Whedon quote, it doesn't even sound like making Pym responsible for Ultron's origin was ever really on the table.
If anything, Lily's comments make it clearer than ever that the main point of contention was the style of the film, not the content. Her remark was that Wright's Ant-Man would have been made in his distinctive visual/editing style, not that there weren't enough MCU connections or whatever the hell.
Also, while Whedon did have Wasp in his original draft of The Avengers and later changed it to drop her, it had nothing to do with Wright's Ant-Man movie. Whedon himself said that they originally didn't think they were going to get Scarlett to return for the movie, and Wasp was meant to replace Black Widow in the story. When they did get Scarlett on board, he swapped out Wasp for Widow.
Also, while Whedon did have Wasp in his original draft of The Avengers and later changed it to drop her, it had nothing to do with Wright's Ant-Man movie. Whedon himself said that they originally didn't think they were going to get Scarlett to return for the movie, and Wasp was meant to replace Black Widow in the story. When they did get Scarlett on board, he swapped out Wasp for Widow.
badcrumble
Member
sweet fanfic
Father_Brain
Banned
That too, though I don't think it's mutually exclusive that it may also have been too much of a stand-alone film for Marvel's taste.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
we can all ignore whats being said or that interviews are trying to politely walk around the issues. But I'll just leave this here for now:
http://collider.com/edgar-wright-ant-man-departure/
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/why-ant-man-director-edgar-707374
combine that with the quotes from E. Lily, Whedon, and other insiders over the last 9 months, and all that adds up to the same argument that few of us had from the beginning.
Wright could have brought it sooner and didn't. By the time he was ready to actually make it happen, too many things had changed, and he didn't like the changes that needed to be made. Marvel indulged Wright for a long time, and eventually they needed the product to be made in a way that fit with everything else.Wright wasn't down with that and he exercised his option to leave.
not sure how that all adds up to "fanfic".
http://collider.com/edgar-wright-ant-man-departure/
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/why-ant-man-director-edgar-707374
combine that with the quotes from E. Lily, Whedon, and other insiders over the last 9 months, and all that adds up to the same argument that few of us had from the beginning.
Wright could have brought it sooner and didn't. By the time he was ready to actually make it happen, too many things had changed, and he didn't like the changes that needed to be made. Marvel indulged Wright for a long time, and eventually they needed the product to be made in a way that fit with everything else.Wright wasn't down with that and he exercised his option to leave.
not sure how that all adds up to "fanfic".
Father_Brain
Banned
If you keep quoting/alluding to things that don't actually back up your specific Wright-as-bad-guy interpretation of events and saying they prove that Wright was the bad guy, it doesn't magically become true.
I mean, what do you imagine these continuity-based changes that Wright refused to make were? Can't be anything to do with TWS, at least, since he'd have had access to the script over a year before the infamous May 2014 revision and would surely have been pushed off much earlier had he refused to, say, acknowledge that SHIELD no longer existed.
Look, just point me to something to back up your assertion that Wright refused to bring the script into line with post-TWS or post-AOU continuity.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
It's in the quotes... bolded, but I'm really not interested in having this same discussion again just because you want to ignore the "facts".
I also never called Wright a "bad guy", just stated that his priorities were elsewhere, and ultimately he walked when he wasn't allowed to make the movie he wanted when he finally was ready (or there was a set deadline) to make it.
I also never called Wright a "bad guy", just stated that his priorities were elsewhere, and ultimately he walked when he wasn't allowed to make the movie he wanted when he finally was ready (or there was a set deadline) to make it.
Father_Brain
Banned
What "facts?" I haven't seen a single quote or report that supports the notion that the issue was MCU continuity and Wright refusing to bring the script into line with the post-AoU or post-TWS status quo. Nothing you quoted says anything to that effect.
If I've missed some interview or account that actually backs up that version of events, by all means point me in that direction.
This. I'm happy we're getting an Ant-Man film, and in the stuff I saw Peyton Reed talking about the film he looked excited and up for the job. Noone is the bad guy here, things just did not work out.
And on the subject of the content, Wright wanted the film to be more intimate and in one of the first interviews with Adam Mckay after he come onboard with Reed he discussed that he was writing an entire new action
Link to the article
And some quotes:
So it's not only the style that is more in line with the rest of the MCU but also in terms of general structure and more connections to the rest of the MCU.
Evangeline Lilly's take:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/evangeline-lilly-ant-man-the-hobbit-squickerwonkers#.neJJp0X0e8
http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/evangeline-lilly-ant-man-the-hobbit-squickerwonkers#.neJJp0X0e8
Because you're making insinuations about what those changes were and why Wright would be dissatisfied with them.
"Marvel didn't like Wright's take on the script and Wright walked" is not the same thing as "Marvel did not like the outdated/missing MCU connections in Wright's script, and when he refused to update them to better the reflect the current MCU, he walked." You can keep saying that however much you like, that doesn't suddenly make it the case.
By all accounts, the contention was over the style and scale of the movie, not its continuity. And, you know, doesn't that make a hell of a lot more sense? Don't you think Wright would find a more diluted version of his specific storytelling sensibilities, or a re-characterized Scott Lang, or more action where he didn't plan any far more objectionable than including certain MCU connections? Don't you think the former would be far more of an eight-year deal breaker than the latter?
Where did you pull "more connections to the rest of the MCU" out of that quote?
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
This Edgar Wright argument is so pointless
I love Edgar Wright. I love everything he's made, including Scott Pilgrim and The World's End, despite them being more...divisive. I'm looking forward to whatever he does in the future. Am I disappointed that he left? Yes, of course. But it happened. So can we all just move the fuck on? Please?
I love Edgar Wright. I love everything he's made, including Scott Pilgrim and The World's End, despite them being more...divisive. I'm looking forward to whatever he does in the future. Am I disappointed that he left? Yes, of course. But it happened. So can we all just move the fuck on? Please?
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Don't you Swanson me!
Unless the movie is really good, the shadow of him (and several other integral people) leaving/being fired will forever hang over this movie.
It's not like I'm going on about wishing Wright was still directing this or something; I'm cautiously optimistic about Reed's handle on the movie. I'm just disputing this ridiculous narrative of the ungrateful, lazy-ass Edgar Wright whose constant dawdling fucked over the helpless Marvel Studios and ruined their carefully meticulous, definitely-was-going-to-happen plans for getting Ant-Man out before either Avengers movie.
Actually, Wasp was meant to be light, fun hearted opposite to Widow and both were in the movie before the changes were made.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
Pretty much, I've been saying this since last year.
Marvel fans just need to be like
Actually, Wasp was meant to be light, fun hearted opposite to Widow and both were in the movie before the changes were made.
That would have been cool. Film was a total sausage fest.
Agreed
Now we can all get excited that if Gregg Turkington is reprising his role as Special Agent Kington, then DECKER is canon in the MCU!!!
BlackNMild2k1
Member
I'm not gonna comb thru all the interviews from the last 9 months that have all been posted here on GAF during previous discussions of this very topic. My point is the same and you keep trying to nitpick what I'm saying while ignoring it at the same time.
The general point still being that Wright didn't like the revisions made to his script and walked. Had he made the movie sooner, which he had the opportunity to do at least twice, he might have been able to make the movie he originally intended. Therefore the blame for us not getting the Edgar Wright Ant-Man would fall almost entirely on Wright for waiting till the MCU was bigger than Ant-Man and the script needed to acknowledge that.
If you don't want to accept that, fine. But it's more or less been stated by those in the know in many different interviews over the last 9 or so months.
Actually, Wasp was meant to be light, fun hearted opposite to Widow and both were in the movie before the changes were made.
Then Whedon is a damn liar!
More or less stated by those in the know in many different interviews that you mysteriously can't come up with. Okay.
Not a single person has ever said the problem was that the "MCU was bigger than Ant-Man and the script needed to acknowledge that" and that Wright didn't want to play ball with that. Not one. And the only person who's actually given any kind of specific comment on the differences between Wright and Reed's versions is Evangeline, who was quite clear that the creative problem that emerged between Wright and Marvel was that the movie was too much in Wright's style and not enough in Marvel's (the fact that the story was rewritten so that the stakes of the heist involve saving the world is probably the most telling example). Not that Wright didn't want to play ball with making some minute connections to the rest of the universe that he was okay with for the first seven years but suddenly had a problem with in 2014.
I'm not ignoring your point, I've addressed it pretty directly more than once. Wright only did what Marvel allowed him to do; he can't make Marvel do anything they aren't cool with, so blaming him for your own dissatisfaction with how things are shaking out re: Ant-Man being in the Avengers or Ant-Man not being involved with Ultron's origin is totally off base. If Marvel had a problem with Wright's availability or his take on Ant-Man or how any of that would impact their plans for the Avengers and Ultron, they would've had him fall in line sooner than last year.
His reasoning still stands, they were too many plots running at once but again, the fact she was that close could have benefited some parts.
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